Season 23/24 - Round 17 -Melbourne vs Visitors 17th Feb - 7:30pm

[haz]

Our attack is more impotent than my dead Grandad. 

[moops]

Jakolis offered a bit of spirit when he came on, a draw is fair and hopefully the players get a bit of confidence from it, having had to defend at the end and hold out.

[MCMLIII]

That was a faeces spectacle. 2 hours of my life I will never get back.

[D.B. Cooper]

After last weeks disaster that was much better. 
Tards had three hot chances in the first half, we had 5 for the match in my book- 2 great saves by Izzo (off Tilio and Antonis). So enough to win most games.

On top of that Tilio Leckie and Andy will be better for the run.

oh shout out to Jakolis who worked his arse off of the bench and made a difference in defence in that second half 

Edited February 17 by D.B. Cooper

[n i k o]

Funny enough we should have won. We were barely in that second half yet had the best chances. 

[MHFC-FAN]

29 minutes ago, D.B. Cooper said:

After last weeks disaster that was much better. 
Tards had three hot chances in the first half, we had 5 for the match in my book- 2 great saves by Izzo (off Tilio and Antonis). So enough to win most games.

On top of that Tilio Leckie and Andy will be better for the run.

oh shout out to Jakolis who worked his arse off of the bench and made a difference in defence in that second half 

Probably at least more intensity, however we could hardly string 3 passes together and really didn't create many goal scoring opportunities. 

Very frustrating game!!

[D.B. Cooper]

14 minutes ago, MHFC-FAN said:

Probably at least more intensity, however we could hardly string 3 passes together and really didn't create many goal scoring opportunities. 

Very frustrating game!!

We can’t keep the ball but can play on the counter. It’s not very Melbourne City but might win a game or 2.

[haz]

Just watched the extended highlights.

Antonis is a gun, why doesn't he get more game time? Talbot was absolute trash. He only ever passes back, and I doubt he has ever completed a successful forward pass or cross. The new Chilean LB is hardly NPL level too.

For as many goals as JMAC scores, he really doesn't help our attack going forward.

Edited February 17 by haz

[MHFC-FAN]

27 minutes ago, haz said:

Just watched the extended highlights.

Antonis is a gun, why doesn't he get more game time? Talbot was absolute trash. He only ever passes back, and I doubt he has ever completed a successful forward pass or cross. The new Chilean LB is hardly NPL level too.

For as many goals as JMAC scores, he really doesn't help our attack going forward.

Antonis should be starting from now on! He's got great vision and his passing ability is perhaps one of the best in the team.

Talbot is such an uninspiring RB who either is afraid to make a forward pass/too conservative with his passing or doesn't have the football smarts in knowing what to do going forward as a defender. 

Chilean bloke looks very mediocre from last night's game. He turned over the ball on at least 2 occasions just from poor passing. Huge downgrade on Aziz at present. 

Jmac hasn't scored since before Christmas. To say he's in poor form would he a massive understatement and how he hasn't been benched because of it is a real head scratcher...

[Torn Asunder]

Draw was.fair, some positive signs, and if we can click soon, especially when Arslan comes back in, we could go on a run

Highlights were the half time light show, and then the lack of reaction from anyone straight thereafter when the evacuation alarm went off ...

And absolute highlight, probably of the season so far, was watching a big group of Victory flogs getting absolutely DESTROYED by the Swifties outside the MCG in a chanting contest. It was brutal and unrelenting, and once it started there was only ever going to be one winner 

[jw1739]

55 minutes ago, Torn Asunder said:

Draw was.fair, some positive signs, and if we can click soon, especially when Arslan comes back in, we could go on a run

Highlights were the half time light show, and then the lack of reaction from anyone straight thereafter when the evacuation alarm went off ...

And absolute highlight, probably of the season so far, was watching a big group of Victory flogs getting absolutely DESTROYED by the Swifties outside the MCG in a chanting contest. It was brutal and unrelenting, and once it started there was only ever going to be one winner 

Sad when the highlights are nothing to do with the football...

[CityBoyz]

 

[jw1739]

3 hours ago, MHFC-FAN said:

Antonis should be starting from now on! He's got great vision and his passing ability is perhaps one of the best in the team.

Talbot is such an uninspiring RB who either is afraid to make a forward pass/too conservative with his passing or doesn't have the football smarts in knowing what to do going forward as a defender. 

Chilean bloke looks very mediocre from last night's game. He turned over the ball on at least 2 occasions just from poor passing. Huge downgrade on Aziz at present. 

Jmac hasn't scored since before Christmas. To say he's in poor form would he a massive understatement and how he hasn't been benched because of it is a real head scratcher...

Not quite correct. JMac scored a hat-trick on 28th December. But the thrust of your comment is correct. Not one of our designated forwards has scored since that Brisbane match: Sakhi, Antonis (2), Arslan, Ugarkovic, and an own goal in 7 matches.

There are some fundamental problems. An ageing squad. The pre-season signings leave a lot to be desired, and so do the subsequent ones. Injuries. Coaching departures. An Academy that hasn't got a lot to offer to challenge the senior squad )we need to be in NPL 1 not NPL 2. Sydney, WSW and CCM are all in NPL 1 in NSW. Adelaide United likewise in SA). A coach that just isn't willing to get the squad by the scruff of the neck and make some obvious changes.

CFG may set some overall guidelines on the style of football it likes its clubs to play, but it does not mandate specifics. 

[NewConvert]

42 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Not quite correct. JMac scored a hat-trick on 28th December. But the thrust of your comment is correct. Not one of our designated forwards has scored since that Brisbane match: Sakhi, Antonis (2), Arslan, Ugarkovic, and an own goal in 7 matches.

There are some fundamental problems. An ageing squad. The pre-season signings leave a lot to be desired, and so do the subsequent ones. Injuries. Coaching departures. An Academy that hasn't got a lot to offer to challenge the senior squad )we need to be in NPL 1 not NPL 2. Sydney, WSW and CCM are all in NPL 1 in NSW. Adelaide United likewise in SA). A coach that just isn't willing to get the squad by the scruff of the neck and make some obvious changes.

CFG may set some overall guidelines on the style of football it likes its clubs to play, but it does not mandate specifics. 

Going by Wikipedia, SA only has one NPL division; NSW NPL also appears to have one division whilst Northern NSW NPL is re-introducing relegation from NPL to HIT Northern League 1 this year. If that is correct, then it is easy to be in NPL1.

Our designated forward line requires an effective mid-field which we don't have because it is only Arslan who is providing any creativity. Antonis may be able to fill that role but I am not sure. Having said that, I would play him ahead of Ugarcovic.

[Mr MO]

4 hours ago, MHFC-FAN said:

Jmac hasn't scored since before Christmas. To say he's in poor form would he a massive understatement and how he hasn't been benched because of it is a real head scratcher...

Is this the longest drought period in his career?

I think I’ve mentioned it before, JMAC is captain now (wrongfully so) and something is brewing behind the scenes in terms of relationships and contract - I think Vidmar doesn’t want to put anymore oil on the fire.

Not scoring and not being able assist the forward line with ball on feet is costly when the game needs it. Most CBs have him easily covered nowadays, there was a time he was double guarded creating space elsewhere.

We have other issues as well of course this is just one of them.

[playmaker]

Nice game from city.

Good to see our manager changed up the tactics and strategies.

Interesting to note that we had less possession 46 to 54, we dragged them to our defensive line and then moved the ball quickly into space and had better quality shots at goal.

Wasn't perfect by any means but it was enough and gave us the best chances to win the game.

2 games this season not playing the 'city way', both against the Tards arguably a better team, and both showed we can play solid defensively and give ourselves good chances of winning.

This game was exactly what was needed.

Please do not revert back to that garbage system again as we haven't got the players for it.

[Mr MO]

24 minutes ago, playmaker said:

Nice game from city.

Good to see our manager changed up the tactics and strategies.

Interesting to note that we had less possession 46 to 54, we dragged them to our defensive line and then moved the ball quickly into space and had better quality shots at goal.

Wasn't perfect by any means but it was enough and gave us the best chances to win the game.

2 games this season not playing the 'city way', both against the Tards arguably a better team, and both showed we can play solid defensively and give ourselves good chances of winning.

This game was exactly what was needed.

Please do not revert back to that garbage system again as we haven't got the players for it.

Besides some different players coming in, I did not notice anything different in  tactics or system.

Due to the Victory pressure we struggled to put passes together and went often long, what I witnessed was a result of the opponents tactics not something we opposed ourselves. This why is both games looked so similar.

Be keen to hear why you believe only against Victory, Vidmar opted for a different system or tactics, because I didn’t see it.

Edited February 18 by Mr MO

[playmaker]

17 minutes ago, Mr MO said:

Besides some different players coming in, I did not notice anything different in  tactics or system.

Due to the Victory pressure we struggled to put passes together and went often long, what I witnessed was a result of the opponents tactics not something we opposed ourselves. This why is both games looked to similar.

Be keen to hear why you believe only against Victory, Vidmar opted for a different system or tactics, because I didn’t see it.

Long ball from defence rather than slow movement through the mids and then out wide which allows the opposition to track back into position and create a defensive block.

This sacrifices possession for quick ball movement therefore allowing our defence and DMs to keep their form while exploiting the possibility of the opposition mids being out of position and compressing their time. It is subtle but if you watch our game against Brisbane you can see the difference.

It's wasn't perfect though, as you saw when Jamie has possession after the quick transition he had no where to go. In the perfect execution Jamie would receive the ball, pass it off to a runner and/or one two it and get in behind. This scenario is only possible by quick ball movement and not allowing the opposition defensive overload.

 

 

Edited February 18 by playmaker

[MHFC-FAN]

1 hour ago, Mr MO said:

Is this the longest drought period in his career?

I think I’ve mentioned it before, JMAC is captain now (wrongfully so) and something is brewing behind the scenes in terms of relationships and contract - I think Vidmar doesn’t want to put anymore oil on the fire.

Not scoring and not being able assist the forward line with ball on feet is costly when the game needs it. Most CBs have him easily covered nowadays, there was a time he was double guarded creating space elsewhere.

We have other issues as well of course this is just one of them.

Currently on a 7 game cold patch since he last scored. Just the one assist is all he has contributed over this span. As you have mentioned he's certainly not inspiring the team with his lack of on field contribution...

This whole season has just been a recipe for disaster!

[Mr MO]

26 minutes ago, playmaker said:

Long ball from defence rather than slow movement through the mids and then out wide which allows the opposition to track back into position and create a defensive block.

This sacrifices possession for quick ball movement therefore allowing our defence and DMs to keep their form while exploiting the possibility of the opposition mids being out of position and compressing their time. It is subtle but if you watch our game against Brisbane you can see the difference.

It's wasn't perfect though, as you saw when Jamie has possession after the quick transition he had no where to go. In the perfect execution Jamie would receive the ball, pass it off to a runner and/or one two it and get in behind. This scenario is only possible by quick ball movement and not allowing the opposition defensive overload.

 

 

Victory played 1:1 in the midfield so there was no space there to play there anyway. Urga was often ignored but moreso Jeggo doesn't always put in the hard yards to give a passing option through midfield (next game watch Jeggo closely, he just cruises behind the opponents). This is where Leckie was at his best making in himself available to be played in, he even dropped to pick up the balls. I acknowledge the difference quick long ball approach but I still remain of the opinion that we were forced to do this rather this being a tactic or system change. 

[rayv36]

Jmac was the one who assisted Leckie for his poster.
 

He looks much better with Leckie in the side. In reality a 7 goal drought isn’t that bad for the Aleague it’s just he has set the bar so high previously. 

[playmaker]

33 minutes ago, Mr MO said:

Victory played 1:1 in the midfield so there was no space there to play there anyway. Urga was often ignored but moreso Jeggo doesn't always put in the hard yards to give a passing option through midfield (next game watch Jeggo closely, he just cruises behind the opponents). This is where Leckie was at his best making in himself available to be played in, he even dropped to pick up the balls. I acknowledge the difference quick long ball approach but I still remain of the opinion that we were forced to do this rather this being a tactic or system change. 

That's OK. You can have a different opinion.

The capitulation of past matches dictate that when we didn't change our tactics and stubbornly kept to the city system, even though the opposition tactics were, as you say 'forcing' us to do so, we got hammered.

So yes of course a good manager needs to respond to the opposition tactics and hence my frustration with the one tactic fits all philosophy where obviously it doesn't.

The difference between what you and I are saying is nothing more than perception. We saw the same thing.

I say it shows the power of using a different system that it more appropiate to our player list and opposition tactics.

Now if we gather our strongest team on the park that is more suited to the city system then let's use it, but until then it has been shown not to be successful.

 

[Mr MO]

53 minutes ago, playmaker said:

That's OK. You can have a different opinion.

The capitulation of past matches dictate that when we didn't change our tactics and stubbornly kept to the city system, even though the opposition tactics were, as you say 'forcing' us to do so, we got hammered.

So yes of course a good manager needs to respond to the opposition tactics and hence my frustration with the one tactic fits all philosophy where obviously it doesn't.

The difference between what you and I are saying is nothing more than perception. We saw the same thing.

I say it shows the power of using a different system that it more appropiate to our player list and opposition tactics.

 

It’s not a different system though, if Victory would have left space in midfield we would have not used the long ball - you see that right?

First you talk about a clear system and tactic change, only used for both Victory games. Now it’s just our perception - I’m confused.

I’m afraid that nothing has changed on that front, these 2 games are no indicator that suddenly Vidmar has a different approach, despite us really wanting to see this.

I agree with some players coming back in, with Leckie in midfield it does suit some players better.

Edited February 18 by Mr MO

[playmaker]

2 hours ago, Mr MO said:

It’s not a different system though, if Victory would have left space in midfield we would have not used the long ball - you see that right?

First you talk about a clear system and tactic change, only used for both Victory games. Now it’s just our perception - I’m confused.

I’m afraid that nothing has changed on that front, these 2 games are no indicator that suddenly Vidmar has a different approach, despite us really wanting to see this.

I agree with some players coming back in, with Leckie in midfield it does suit some players better.

Of course there is a difference.

For the last 5 weeks we have witnessed slow moving, high possession, high defensive line play. Everyone has seen this and pointed at the fact that this is a problem and why we are underperforming.

I have said that in those games we would have had a greater chance at success if we had changed our tactics to which others have alludes to also.

So we saw against the tards that we didn't play that city way and in my view it was a better performance. So yes there was a change for the better.

So if we had played this way for the last 5 weeks would the performances have been better? I think so based on the more solid defence and faster ball movement on transition. The stats also show that this game was played differently. 

You are saying it was by force, I disagree as I think is was by choice which is OK to agree to disagree.

However,  even by your rationale, I think we were forced to play differently for the last 5 weeks and chose not to do it, we didn't respond to the needs of the game and we got punished because we chose to play the city way with a list that can't execute it.

Against the tards we did respond, played differently and the list was able execute the plan enough to give us a chance of winning.

In summary I think it was a good game, good atmosphere, hopefully the players take positives out of the game, the metrics get analysed, and the management became more adaptable to the needs of the game on the day.

Over and out.

Have a nice week

[kingofhearts]

You're both equally wrong

[Mr MO]

1 hour ago, playmaker said:

However,  even by your rationale, I think we were forced to play differently for the last 5 weeks and chose not to do it, we didn't respond to the needs of the game and we got punished because we chose to play the city way with a list that can't execute it.

This is not true of course, you are making the false assumption that all the other teams in recent weeks played exactly the same as Victory. They just didn’t, most left some midfield passing lanes open, let us pass around on the mid way line and forced the turn over much higher up field, resulting in a a quick break against our high line. 

Victory did not none of the above, had the midfield closed off and pressed a lot earlier. I’m convinced that if the space and time was there we would have played the exact same way as in recent weeks.

The different players coming in, mainly Leckie with the early and  forced quicker long balls as we adapted in the game just played in our hand a bit, that doesn’t mean we had system change. However I agree that his must be considered going forward. We do have the habit of falling into our old ways quickly.

Another thing you’ve failed to explain if this was all dressing room premeditated, why only strategic changes against Victory? We’ve seen two similar games them.

Edited February 18 by Mr MO

[belaguttman]

Just wondering; does our team have any defined principles of play this season?

Do we have a playing style?

What, exactly, do we stand for in football terms, what is the team offering the fans?

Edited February 18 by belaguttman

[KSK_47]

27 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

Just wondering; does our team have any defined principles of play this season?

Do we have a playing style?

What, exactly, do we stand for in football terms, what is the team offering the fans?

Pass backwards. Always play backwards. No matter what 

[kingofhearts]

41 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

Just wondering; does our team have any defined principles of play this season?

Do we have a playing style?

What, exactly, do we stand for in football terms, what is the team offering the fans?

We're trying to break the austrlian soccer record of amount of passes done between centre backs.

[belaguttman]

8 minutes ago, kingofhearts said:

We're trying to break the austrlian soccer record of amount of passes done between centre backs.

More like trying to break the record for the number of back passes between goals scored, but that isn't a style of principle of play; it's the consequence of not having one

[jw1739]

You should all read (BTW I'm not the author or anything to do with "Talking City):

https://www.talkingcity.com.au/another-tepid-showing-reviewing-a-disappointing-melbourne-derby/

This sums up City as I feel, and I think many other fans are the same. We are a pale shadow of the club that we were just one season ago.

I don't know what the fundamental problem is, but it surfaced before the GF last season, and it's just gone on from there.

[Mr MO]

1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

You should all read (BTW I'm not the author or anything to do with "Talking City):

https://www.talkingcity.com.au/another-tepid-showing-reviewing-a-disappointing-melbourne-derby/

This sums up City as I feel, and I think many other fans are the same. We are a pale shadow of the club that we were just one season ago.

I don't know what the fundamental problem is, but it surfaced before the GF last season, and it's just gone on from there.

A painful read for the happy clappers among us. It’s the complacency I’ve mentioned a couple of times now. The only thing the article doesn’t address is that some of our players just aren’t top of league standard.

[playmaker]

13 hours ago, kingofhearts said:

You're both equally wrong

The most accurate analysis of the thread. 🥴

[D.B. Cooper]

7 hours ago, jw1739 said:

You should all read (BTW I'm not the author or anything to do with "Talking City):

https://www.talkingcity.com.au/another-tepid-showing-reviewing-a-disappointing-melbourne-derby/

This sums up City as I feel, and I think many other fans are the same. We are a pale shadow of the club that we were just one season ago.

I don't know what the fundamental problem is, but it surfaced before the GF last season, and it's just gone on from there.

Look we aren’t that great this year but it seems the author either didn’t have a good view of the game or wasn’t playing close attention. I stopped reading when he said we had 2 chances. 
Leckie hit the post, Tilio had a shot tipped on to the crossbar (the commentators refused to acknowledge it was a save, but it was). Antonis had a one vs one and Natal had 2 one vs ones.  Enough to win pretty much any game.
It’s ok to be critical of the game etc (I don’t have an axe to grind) but an argument should be based on facts not emotion to match a narrative. 

[Baka1]

Not sure where to put this, but I wonder if CFG look at the packed north end on a derby, then pan across to see our abysmal home end, and think “how can we match that?” Does not look great on the telly that’s for sure 

[belaguttman]

2 hours ago, D.B. Cooper said:

Leckie hit the post, Tilio had a shot tipped on to the crossbar (the commentators refused to acknowledge it was a save, but it was). Antonis had a one vs one and Natal had 2 one vs ones.  Enough to win pretty much any game.

You've just summed up our attack this season

[MHFC-FAN]

3 hours ago, Baka1 said:

Not sure where to put this, but I wonder if CFG look at the packed north end on a derby, then pan across to see our abysmal home end, and think “how can we match that?” Does not look great on the telly that’s for sure 

I didn't realise how sparse our "home end" was until I watched the highlights...😔

[jw1739]

4 hours ago, D.B. Cooper said:

Look we aren’t that great this year but it seems the author either didn’t have a good view of the game or wasn’t playing close attention. I stopped reading when he said we had 2 chances. 
Leckie hit the post, Tilio had a shot tipped on to the crossbar (the commentators refused to acknowledge it was a save, but it was). Antonis had a one vs one and Natal had 2 one vs ones.  Enough to win pretty much any game.
It’s ok to be critical of the game etc (I don’t have an axe to grind) but an argument should be based on facts not emotion to match a narrative. 

So why didn't we?

[mattyh001]

6 hours ago, D.B. Cooper said:

Look we aren’t that great this year but it seems the author either didn’t have a good view of the game or wasn’t playing close attention. I stopped reading when he said we had 2 chances. 
Leckie hit the post, Tilio had a shot tipped on to the crossbar (the commentators refused to acknowledge it was a save, but it was). Antonis had a one vs one and Natal had 2 one vs ones.  Enough to win pretty much any game.
It’s ok to be critical of the game etc (I don’t have an axe to grind) but an argument should be based on facts not emotion to match a narrative. 

 

2 hours ago, jw1739 said:

So why didn't we?

in a nut shell, the injuries, player & coaching changes et al have lead to a very inconsistent and incohesive line up week in week out.  give current line up (particularly with Arslan to come back) an uninterrupted two months together and we would have a solid grounding and style between the group

Edited February 19 by mattyh001

[jw1739]

11 hours ago, mattyh001 said:

in a nut shell, the injuries, player & coaching changes et al have lead to a very inconsistent and incohesive line up week in week out.  give current line up (particularly with Arslan to come back) an uninterrupted two months together and we would have a solid grounding and style between the group

There are probably as many analyses of a match as there are spectators...but IMO what TalkingCity has published is less about analysis and reasons, but rather more about the image of the club and the impression that it is giving - the mood that seems to have pervaded the club since last season's Grand Final debacle.

Edited February 20 by jw1739