RND 10; Dec 13th @ Newcastle

[mattyh001]

Intriguing game coming up. 

Corresponding game last season was the Koren hattrick in a 5-2 win. 

We did ship a couple of soft goals in that game IIRC. Can't say I'm confident that won't happen again this season / this time around.  

At least the home game against Newcastle earlier this season should prove a sore point for our lot so they can play the 90 out properly this time. 

Newcastle looked rather negative against Sydney last night in terms of being defensively setup so to play out a low scoring game.  Would expect the same next Sunday

Edited December 5, 2015 by mattyh001

[Jimmy]

Tough one to pick.

[Harrison]

Hughes and Koren to be eligible, though I doubt they will start. Not sure about Zullo; he could well replace Germano as the standard measurement of recovery time. 

Barring a training injury, the line-up will most likely be unchanged:

                      Sorensen

Franjic - Chapman - Kisnorbo - Clisby

               Melling - Paartalu

                         Mooy

           Mauk - Fornaroli - Novillo

Hughes on for Chapman/Clisby, Koren to replace Melling/Mauk in the 75th.

[Dylan]

Retre for Melling plz

[Harrison]

Completely agree Dylan. Retre deserved to keep his spot against CCM. Melling just looked a little off the pace in the midfield. 

[haz]

3-1 City....  Continuing JVS' usual Christmas win streak 

[jw1739]

1 hour ago, Harrison said:

Hughes and Koren to be eligible, though I doubt they will start. Not sure about Zullo; he could well replace Germano as the standard measurement of recovery time. 

Barring a training injury, the line-up will most likely be unchanged:

                      Sorensen

Franjic - Chapman - Kisnorbo - Clisby

               Melling - Paartalu

                         Mooy

           Mauk - Fornaroli - Novillo

Hughes on for Chapman/Clisby, Koren to replace Melling/Mauk in the 75th.

IMO the most important thing is not to mess too much with a team that's just won 5-1, and to fix the bloody bench so that it has a genuine forward (please not David Williams), a utility mid (Trifiro) and a genuine defender (Richardson or Millar). IMO van 't Schip's bench management this season has been very poor.
I would not be bringing in Hughes or Koren at this stage. Not with the derby the following week.

[belaguttman]

I agree jw the bench management both in terms of occupancy and substitutions has been disappointing on the whole and bizarre at times

[neio]

This will be our first clean sheet of the season, we will win 1-0 in a tough boring game thanks to Newcastle building a whole bus terminal 

[Murfy1]

Newcastle haven't been too flash in front of goal lately (their shots on target over the past 5 games: 1, 1, 0, 2, 3), so this is a good chance for the defence to show what they can do and keep a cleansheet.

 

I agree we haven't seen much stability with our bench players. TBF, the changing bench is in part explained by injuries--Gameiro, Hughes, Kisnorbo--and players returning from injury the coaching staff wanted to sub on and slowly build up their playing time--Novillo, Hughes, Gameiro, Franjic--and finally some players to replace the aforementioned players returning from injury who became fit enough to start but were unable to play 90 minutes (for example, against Perth we needed direct replacements for Franjic, Gameiro and Novillo on the bench, RB Millar and 2 wingers in Williams and Espindola, as there were big question marks over the returning players' ability to play 90 minutes).

But whilst injuries half explain the bench, I reckon JVS mainly selecting players based on form (rather than selecting players from different positions) explains the rest of the bench decisions. Trifiro has been judged to have not done enough in his appearances, especially compared with other midfield options in Mauk and Retre, so he's been dropped from match-day squads. Ditto Kuzmanovski, who last underwhelmed when he started in our 3-0 loss against WSW. And I'd wager players like Dekker and Richardson haven't convinced enough at training, hence why Melling was played at CB rather than Richardson, because in JVS' words "I have played with him [Melling] in this position [CB] in some training matches and I thought he was good there".

As always it's especially tough to judge where young players are at, and whether they can handle A-League football. Stars in the NYL, such as Ross Archibald (NYL player of the season twice) and Zac Walker infamously never showed enough to get gigs in the A-League. And it seems even young players from top English youth academies, such as Tom King from Liverpool, and Callum Richardson from Burnley, have struggled to step up to senior football, even in the A-League (whereas young players like Chapman, Melling, Mauk and Retre have all stepped up and proven they can certainly hold their own in the A-League). In short, one can never assume young players will just keep on developing, and it's often surprising which young players make it in senior football and which don't.

 

 

We should have our best squad this season when we play Newcastle, so it'll be interesting to see whether they can stay consistent, and perform in both attack and defence. It's now time for the team to show how effective they can be in defence and keep a cleansheet.

Edited December 5, 2015 by Murfy1

[kingofhearts]

Zullo on the bench would be nice.

Should win by a goal or 2

[Deeming]

Time to bring back Tando. Give him a match to settle before the derby. Sorensen has been fine in shot stopping but his distribution is woeful. Last week I think it was 3 kicked out of the sidelines on top of the turnover.

 

[Shahanga]

2 hours ago, jw1739 said:

IMO the most important thing is not to mess too much with a team that's just won 5-1, and to fix the bloody bench so that it has a genuine forward (please not David Williams), a utility mid (Trifiro) and a genuine defender (Richardson or Millar). IMO van 't Schip's bench management this season has been very poor.
I would not be bringing in Hughes or Koren at this stage. Not with the derby the following week.

Watching Guus Huddink manage a side transformed how I thought about the bench. Prior to that I thought, best XI started, not so good on bench.

Guus though would look to put a weapon on the bench, someone who could come on and turn the game. Vs Uruguay that was Kewell, vs Japan, Cahill.

So what I would hope is that our gaffer looks for 2 things, players who can come on and set up or score a goal (& rescue us when we are behind) and players who can cover for injuries.

TBH the first bloke I would pick on the bench is Willo. Ok he is the definition of inconsistent but on his day he is mercurial and if any of our fringe players could come off the bench and score a miracle goal, surely it's him.

Other than that it's another attacker, whoever misses out between Retre and Melling and probably a defender.

Bottom line you need some fire power there for the games you need to change up.

[strider]

bring back dekker and kuzi

[mattyh001]

4 hours ago, jw1739 said:

IMO the most important thing is not to mess too much with a team that's just won 5-1, and to fix the bloody bench so that it has a genuine forward (please not David Williams), a utility mid (Trifiro) and a genuine defender (Richardson or Millar). IMO van 't Schip's bench management this season has been very poor.
I would not be bringing in Hughes or Koren at this stage. Not with the derby the following week.

for me that's the exact reason to include them on the bench.  try to give them some sort of senior match time prior to the derby (20 - 30 minutes maybe)

only reason that JVS shouldnt be taking both on the bench is that we have so many in need of game time after injury that maybe a couple of players would benefit more from 50-60 minutes in the youth team.  given the age and experience of both, that might mean they will be less rusty / able to adapt to senior football more rapidly after injury

[Pete Heartspur]

5 hours ago, Shahanga said:

Watching Guus Huddink manage a side transformed how I thought about the bench. Prior to thatght, best XI started, not so good on bench.

Guus though would look to put a weapon on the bench, someone who could come on and turn the game. Vs Uruguay that was Kewell, vs Japan, Cahill.

So what I would hope is that our gaffer looks for 2 things, players who can come on and set up or score a goal (& rescue us when we are behind) and players who can cover for injuries.

TBH the first bloke I would pick on the bench is Willo. Ok he is the definition of inconsistent but on his day he is mercurial and if any of our fringe players could come off the bench and score a miracle goal, surely it's him.

Other than that it's another attacker, whoever misses out between Retre and Melling and probably a defender.

Bottom line you need some fire power there for the games you need to change up.

Have always been a fan of this philosophy. Nothing more draining than looking to the bench and seeing no-one capable of providing a spark. 

[n i k o]

9 hours ago, strider said:

bring back dekker and kuzi

Kuzi was quite average in the youth game yesterday. Definitely not a bench player at the moment. While he's got some talent the kids got some serious work to do if he wants to become a regular in the aleague. No amount of stepovers will hide the areas of his game that need improvement. 

[Tony999]

Pay back time. 3-0 win. Next.

[jw1739]

7 hours ago, n i k o said:

Kuzi was quite average in the youth game yesterday. Definitely not a bench player at the moment. While he's got some talent the kids got some serious work to do if he wants to become a regular in the aleague. No amount of stepovers will hide the areas of his game that need improvement. 

At risk of becoming the next Dugandzic?

[n i k o]

At 18 definitely too soon to tell as a lot can happen over the next 5 years for him. But yes there is a risk he could become a lost potential. 

[Shahanga]

10 hours ago, n i k o said:

Kuzi was quite average in the youth game yesterday. Definitely not a bench player at the moment. While he's got some talent the kids got some serious work to do if he wants to become a regular in the aleague. No amount of stepovers will hide the areas of his game that need improvement. 

Thanks for the detail. I must say I thought he'd go a bit better at that level, but respect your first hand judgement. He has a hard road ahead of him then and a real test of his character.

[n i k o]

1 hour ago, Shahanga said:

Thanks for the detail. I must say I thought he'd go a bit better at that level, but respect your first hand judgement. He has a hard road ahead of him then and a real test of his character.

Just to clarify, in comparison to the rest of the youth team as a whole I'll say that he doesn't rate as "average." But he is one of the few that has had a bit of experience playing for the first team. Simple stuff like passing technique, utilising teammates around him, understanding when to/not to take on players, getting into more advanced positions to use his skill to take on players. In fact that's what makes him exciting also because he can make players look stupid at times when he takes them on (like he has a couple times playing for the first team), but its not enough if he wants to be selected in the squad, let alone a starting player. Anyway that's my opinion I'm sure others may have opposing views.

[playmaker]

Agreed he lacks vision, as with a lot of immature players who focus on their own individual performance rather than centre their focus on team outcomes. It will come, but not quite yet. He has potential which is promising for us but he really needs to focus on that part of his development in the youths before he steps up again.

[jw1739]

I suppose the question is whether you can get that whilst still playing with the youth team(s). Would it be better to have a more comprehensive pre-season fixture list?

[HeartOfCity]

On 05/12/2015, 12:29:28, neio said:

This will be our first clean sheet of the season, we will win 1-0 in a tough boring game thanks to Newcastle building a whole bus terminal 

 love it

[Dylan]

2 hours ago, jw1739 said:

I suppose the question is whether you can get that whilst still playing with the youth team(s). Would it be better to have a more comprehensive pre-season fixture list?

npl?

[silva10]

On 05/12/2015, 03:42:01, Murfy1 said:

Newcastle haven't been too flash in front of goal lately (their shots on target over the past 5 games: 1, 1, 0, 2, 3), so this is a good chance for the defence to show what they can do and keep a cleansheet.

 

I agree we haven't seen much stability with our bench players. TBF, the changing bench is in part explained by injuries--Gameiro, Hughes, Kisnorbo--and players returning from injury the coaching staff wanted to sub on and slowly build up their playing time--Novillo, Hughes, Gameiro, Franjic--and finally some players to replace the aforementioned players returning from injury who became fit enough to start but were unable to play 90 minutes (for example, against Perth we needed direct replacements for Franjic, Gameiro and Novillo on the bench, RB Millar and 2 wingers in Williams and Espindola, as there were big question marks over the returning players' ability to play 90 minutes).

But whilst injuries half explain the bench, I reckon JVS mainly selecting players based on form (rather than selecting players from different positions) explains the rest of the bench decisions. Trifiro has been judged to have not done enough in his appearances, especially compared with other midfield options in Mauk and Retre, so he's been dropped from match-day squads. Ditto Kuzmanovski, who last underwhelmed when he started in our 3-0 loss against WSW. And I'd wager players like Dekker and Richardson haven't convinced enough at training, hence why Melling was played at CB rather than Richardson, because in JVS' words "I have played with him [Melling] in this position [CB] in some training matches and I thought he was good there".

As always it's especially tough to judge where young players are at, and whether they can handle A-League football. Stars in the NYL, such as Ross Archibald (NYL player of the season twice) and Zac Walker infamously never showed enough to get gigs in the A-League. And it seems even young players from top English youth academies, such as Tom King from Liverpool, and Callum Richardson from Burnley, have struggled to step up to senior football, even in the A-League (whereas young players like Chapman, Melling, Mauk and Retre have all stepped up and proven they can certainly hold their own in the A-League). In short, one can never assume young players will just keep on developing, and it's often surprising which young players make it in senior football and which don't.

 

 

We should have our best squad this season when we play Newcastle, so it'll be interesting to see whether they can stay consistent, and perform in both attack and defence. It's now time for the team to show how effective they can be in defence and keep a cleansheet.

The decision to play Dekker as a wide player, was the wrong one Murfy. Everyone could see the kid doesn't have the pace to play there. He should have been used as back up to Bruno and given some minutes if we were a few goals ahead. I actually believe his movement is very good and showed glimpses of his finishing ability. What he can't do is move up and down the pitch with pace.

[Murfy1]

After two big wins, is the real Melbourne City finally on show, asks Matt Windley

 

December 6, 2016

Matt Windley

 

COULD this finally be it?

After so many false dawns, could the sleeping giant that is Melbourne City finally be awakening?

The raw numbers paint a positive picture.

John van’t Schip’s men are the league’s leading scorers this season and in the process have scored more goals — 23 — in the first nine rounds than any club in A-League history.

The team contains the A-League’s golden boot leader — Bruno Fornaroli, with seven — and in beating Central Coast 5-1 on Thursday night it became the first side in league history to score five goals in consecutive games.

Harry Novillo is another who has shot up the scoring charts with four goals in his last three games, while City also boasts the hottest player in the league right now, Socceroo Aaron Mooy, who currently leads the NewsCorp Player of the Year Award.

And while it’s too early to talk potential grand finals and whatnot, it should be noted that previous early high scorers have gone on to win the A-League title.

Brisbane scored 22 goals in the first nine games of its 2011-12 championship campaign, while Melbourne Victory had 21 to this point last season.

Van’t Schip must still rectify his side’s defensive woes, as City has conceded 16 goals, the third-worst defensive record in the competition.

But letting in just a goal a game in the past three is nonetheless an improvement.

City fullback Ivan Franjic said yesterday City makes no apologies for aiming high this season.

The Socceroo did say, however, that the team could ill-afford to get too excited after its commanding recent performances, saying it would all count for nought if the team had its colours lowered in Newcastle on Sunday.

Things were looking far from rosy all of a month ago for City after being humbled 3-0 at home by Western Sydney.

Franjic revealed that a frank heart-to-heart among City players following that AAMI Park performance may well have been the catalyst for the sudden turnaround, a mini-run that started with a gutsy draw away to then-league leader Brisbane.

“Losing 3-0 at home like that was unacceptable, especially for our fans,” Franjic said.

“We knew from then on that we just had to start winning, there were no excuses.

“You look at the team around you and there are quality players all over the pitch. So everyone looked at each other in the eye after that result and said ‘we can’t have this any more’.

“Everyone was honest, put their hand up and said it wasn’t the best performance.

“We just sat down as a team and said that it has to be about consistency.

“In this league if you can’t find that consistency then it’s very hard to finish in the top two and we’re a team that wants to finish in the top two because we’ve got the quality of players.

“(The last two weeks) have been a big step in the right direction, but we have to continue that now.”

City is still far from full strength.

International marquee Robert Koren (calf) and central defender Aaron Hughes (calf) are extremely close to making returns after joining in full training last week, while fullback Michael Zullo (calf) is also nearing a comeback.

Beyond the Jets game is a derby against Victory on December 19, a game that comes just four days after Kevin Muscat’s side will have played in Perth.

 

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/football/a-league/after-two-big-wins-is-the-real-melbourne-city-finally-on-show-asks-matt-windley/news-story/e62316d61f9cf1d5ee2210086594fe08

 

39 minutes ago, silva10 said:

The decision to play Dekker as a wide player, was the wrong one Murfy. Everyone could see the kid doesn't have the pace to play there. He should have been used as back up to Bruno and given some minutes if we were a few goals ahead. I actually believe his movement is very good and showed glimpses of his finishing ability. What he can't do is move up and down the pitch with pace.

I fully agree that Dekker showed promise as a striker. I was just merely stating that the coaching staff dropped him, most likely because they thought he wasn't showing enough, even if he was played out of position as a winger.

A problem for Dekker is that he's going to get precious few minutes up front in the striker position while Fornaroli is in the team. Fornaroli's fit enough to play 90 minutes each round, and he's scored 3 goals after the 68th minute in matches so he's been performing late in games as well, hence there's little reason to move him out of his striker position even late in games. 

IMO Dekker deserves more chances in the match-day squad, starting this weekend against Newcastle, especially since he scored a hat-trick in the NYL youth team 2 days ago. However it's tough for all our non-starting forwards--not just Dekker but also Kuzmanovski, Zinni, Williams, Espindola--because if they don't perform they can understandably be dropped the following round, as there's other capable forwards who can replace non-performers. I hope Dekker steps up and proves he deserves a place in the match-day squad, but if not him I hope another young attacker or two takes their chances when they get them and helps the team (much more important than the progress of individuals, that is that there's a healthy competition in the squad that helps the team be successful).

Edited December 6, 2015 by Murfy1

[silva10]

The thing is Murfy I believe Dekker would be a great option of the bench as a striker, especially if we are struggling to score. Also, if we are comfortably ahead, that is the time to give young players 10 to 15 minutes. I know he won't be a starter yet, but he needs to be involved as much as possible.

 

I really believe the teams need to press the FFA to increase the bench to 7, like most leagues around the world. It may add extra cost, but gives a manager more options, as well has getting more young players involved in the match day experience.

 

Edited December 6, 2015 by silva10

[Luke]

tando firming for return 

[NewConvert]

5 hours ago, Murfy1 said:

A problem for Dekker is that he's going to get precious few minutes up front in the striker position while Fornaroli is in the team. Fornaroli's fit enough to play 90 minutes each round, and he's scored 3 goals after the 68th minute in matches so he's been performing late in games as well, hence there's little reason to move him out of his striker position even late in games. 

IMO Dekker deserves more chances in the match-day squad, starting this weekend against Newcastle, especially since he scored a hat-trick in the NYL youth team 2 days ago. However it's tough for all our non-starting forwards--not just Dekker but also Kuzmanovski, Zinni, Williams, Espindola--because if they don't perform they can understandably be dropped the following round, as there's other capable forwards who can replace non-performers. I hope Dekker steps up and proves he deserves a place in the match-day squad, but if not him I hope another young attacker or two takes their chances when they get them and helps the team (much more important than the progress of individuals, that is that there's a healthy competition in the squad that helps the team be successful).

 

5 hours ago, silva10 said:

The thing is Murfy I believe Dekker would be a great option of the bench as a striker, especially if we are struggling to score. Also, if we are comfortably ahead, that is the time to give young players 10 to 15 minutes. I know he won't be a starter yet, but he needs to be involved as much as possible.

 

I really believe the teams need to press the FFA to increase the bench to 7, like most leagues around the world. It may add extra cost, but gives a manager more options, as well has getting more young players involved in the match day experience.

 

There are two issues here: what is best for a young player and what is best for the team. Right now we are all hoping that the youth players develop and become regulars either in the starting XI or on the bench. But as is always the case what happens when the player they could replace is in stellar form? the best they can hope for is to be on the bench. And it is unlikely that Fornaroli would be benched at the 70 minute mark unless city is leading by 5 goals and a younger player gets an opportunity. So right now we have quite a few young players that are showing great potential and really need game time to further develop but the players that they could replace are playing really well.

I fully expect that at the end of the season some of these players will be offered contracts elsewhere because they won't be able to break into the team. If we finish top two and see ACL action next season then this is where these players would come in handy but some of them will be gone.

[mjake1234]

I don't know the rules or logistics of it but how would it be if MCFC had an npl side? Is the standard good enough for players to develop to a league standard?

[Dylan]

Double header this sunday with the W league as well. 

[strider]

We might win, lose or draw this one

[bumpyknuckles]

4 minutes ago, strider said:

We might win, lose or draw this one

I feared this may happen as well

[Jimmy]

2 hours ago, mjake1234 said:

I don't know the rules or logistics of it but how would it be if MCFC had an npl side? Is the standard good enough for players to develop to a league standard?

Wat?

[n i k o]

2 hours ago, mjake1234 said:

I don't know the rules or logistics of it but how would it be if MCFC had an npl side? Is the standard good enough for players to develop to a league standard?

[belaguttman]

'Could this finally be it' indeed. At this stage whilst we undeniably have a better team than in seasons past, with all respect to MCFC we've seen this pattern many times before. The skeptic in me will be pressured if we can beat Newcastle this weekend and keep a clean sheet. 

[Jovan]

6 hours ago, mjake1234 said:

I don't know the rules or logistics of it but how would it be if MCFC had an npl side? Is the standard good enough for players to develop to a league standard?

We already do.

[NewConvert]

7 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

'Could this finally be it' indeed. At this stage whilst we undeniably have a better team than in seasons past, with all respect to MCFC we've seen this pattern many times before. The skeptic in me will be pressured if we can beat Newcastle this weekend and keep a clean sheet. 

My scepticism will remain intact even if we score another 5 goals in a winning performance. The subsequent matches will be the weathervane: MV, Roar, Sydney and WSW. If we take all points, then scepticism will begin reducing. I'm still concerned whether we may lose the game against PG that we played two weeks ago.