Round 2 | The Melbourne Derby | Etihad stadium | 7:30PM Saturday 17th of October

[mattyh001]

I thought last night was a very Jekyll and Hyde performance. 

First 60 very poor. We looked way more intent on disrupting their play than actually playing ours. As unlucky as the first goal was, playing a disruptive style means you can't afford to conceed - particularly early on. When we did conceed, we didn't even look to play out - sadly it took a second goal to get us to lift. Being 2-0 down against reigning champions before lifting is completely batty. 

On the other hand, the last 30 looked solid. Great to see the positive impact from each player off the bench. None would be seen as first choice, so it seems we have good depth for once. Mooy proved he is pure class once again and Fornaroli is going to be awesome - great signing. 

[Jovan]

This post is solely in hindsight.

But why do we sign Zullo as our starting left back and on his debut play him upfront. I really don't want to bag Clisby but Zullo is a better and more capable left back. Then when Kuzi came on he proved to be more than adequate alongside Bruno.

Why do we create unnecessary conundrums. Sign Zullo as a left back and play him at left back simple. Kuzi and even Zinni are good enough to cover Gameiro and Novillo. Play Clisby when Zullo is unavailable. 

Really shits me they over complicate things.

Now having said all that I really think the coaches are looking at Wednesday and hope to get through. (Well they better or I'm going to lose it).

[belaguttman]

LB was a position targeted by the visitors. They are strong on the right and saw Clisby as a vulnerability. Zullo is on his way back from injury and would not have lasted 90 minutes there. Better to play Clisby there for 90, give Zullo some match time and then play him at LB on Wednesday or Sunday depending on how he pulls up

[n i k o]

Not taking into consideration game time, fitness level etc. a combination of Zullo on left back and Kuzi on the wing would have been much better.

Been saying for a long time Kisnorbo is the wrong fit for our style of play and I still don't understand why the coaching staff didn't recruit a centre back of similar quality to a Fornaroli up front. Someone young that can actually outrun someone in the a league and that can play the ball at his feet. Kisnorbo still has something to offer but not this club. They've really dropped the ball on that centre back position.  

Said last week we've probably seen the best of Paartalu after one match and I stand by it. His performances during matches will be very up and down. Disappointing we gave him four years. 

Now I may be wrong because it wasn't easy to tell from the sidelines but it seemed Mooy played a much more attacking role once Koren went off. I don't know if we made any formation changes at this point but having Mooy free to attack created so much more opportunities to move forward. 

While there's reason to be optimistic I just don't see us winning anything this season. We're riding on the hope that we get back our best players and that they can stay injury free. We've never been able to make that happen.

[Jestr]

We we really need a dislike button

 

Edited October 18, 2015 by Jestr

[n i k o]

JVS on his address to the players at half time:

What I said was ‘losing a game is not nice but losing a game without really going for it, fighting for it, that’s double disappointment’,” he said.

“If this is the way we’re going to give this game away then I don’t think after this game you can look each other in the eye.”

Read more at http://www.fourfourtwo.com/au/news/jvs-city-fightback-cost-us-energy#0MBqsjRa3wzT4aoW.99

[AntiScum]

alot of upsides to this loss as much as it hurts losing the scum the old city would of rolled over and coped 4 this city fought back and very unlucky to lose it in the last minute.

[KSK_47]

alot of upsides to this loss as much as it hurts losing the scum the old city would of rolled over and coped 4 this city fought back and very unlucky to lose it in the last minute.

Dont you even!

[jw1739]

alot of upsides to this loss as much as it hurts losing the scum the old city would of rolled over and coped 4 this city fought back and very unlucky to lose it in the last minute.

No. Nothing to do with luck. This club has a history of conceding goals in the last 5 minutes or so of both first-half and second-half playing time. It's a measure of loss of concentration and of not having a Plan B for these parts of a matches. It's an attitude problem. If we had won yesterday the Victory players would still be in the dressing room with Muscat tearing them to pieces collectively and individually. van 't Schip sees "positives" in the result that Arnold and Muscat never would.

[kingofhearts]

alot of upsides to this loss as much as it hurts losing the scum the old city would of rolled over and coped 4 this city fought back and very unlucky to lose it in the last minute.

story of our club always taking positives out of bad situations.

When will it change?

Edited October 18, 2015 by kingofhearts

[Murfy1]

It'll be interesting when more players are back which fullbacks and wingers we play. Zullo played the majority of pre-season at LB (like against Wellington), so I reckon he'll end up playing there. As for last night's game, Dekker started because he scored a good goal in round 1, and I reckon Kuzi didn't start because he didn't show too much in round 1 and there was maybe concerns about giving him a debut start in such a big game; also I think Kuzi was really able to tear through victory's defence because he came off the bench and because the players on the pitch were tired (going forward though Kuzi will definitely be pushing for a starting spot).

So I'm pretty sure we'll see Zullo starting at LB pretty soon, and Kuzi getting lots of minutes as one of our wingers. Nonetheless I also agree that Clisby did pretty well all up (with the significant exception of victory's second goal) given that he was often defending against both Barbarouses and Georgevski (Zullo seemingly not fit enough yet to track back and defend a lot). And whilst I reckon our fullback positions are our weakest positions, especially with Franjic and Zullo unable to start, I do think Victory are the most dangerous team attacking down the flanks with Khalfallah, Barbarouses and Georgevski, hence I think we'll defend significantly better in the wide positions against the other 8 A-League teams--as we did against Sydney FC in round 1 (where Sydney created a lot less chances down our flanks).

 

No. Nothing to do with luck. This club has a history of conceding goals in the last 5 minutes or so of both first-half and second-half playing time. It's a measure of loss of concentration and of not having a Plan B for these parts of a matches. It's an attitude problem. If we had won yesterday the Victory players would still be in the dressing room with Muscat tearing them to pieces collectively and individually. van 't Schip sees "positives" in the result that Arnold and Muscat never would.

Agree Melbourne City's attitude isn't ideal yet; we've got to fight stronger and with more conviction up until the very last second, even against A-League contenders like Sydney FC and Melbourne victory. However I do think the attitude is improving, and think Melbourne City showed some good attitude/chutzpah to fight Sydney on their on turf last week, and to comeback and score 2 goals against victory yesterday and fight them until the 90th minute.

The thing I'll be really interested to see is the attitude of the team in matches which we should win, starting with our first home match against Central Coast next week. I'd like to a confident, and pretty much cocky team boss the game. And I think we might have seen early signs of that winning attitude with our dominant 5-1 and 5-0 wins in the FFA Cup. 

 

On the second point I think this "taking positives" out of a match this is overblown. All coaches do it, and regularly, like Graham Arnold did in round 1, not saying one word at all about their very flat first half performance at home against us, and instead entirely focusing on the second half and taking positive out of it: "I think there's about 70 per cent improvement in us. We've got new players and it's a new league for them and they're adjusting to each other," he said. "As the game went on, we got better and better. It's a very promising start and I we played some really good stuff." (http://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/sydney-fcs-graham-arnold-and-melbourne-citys-john-vant-schip-look-on-bright-side-20151010-gk63xz.html)

I don't really care what coaches say, all I care about is our coaching staff getting the right reaction out of the team. But really the "taking positives", focusing what you can build on approach is very run of the mill and normal coaching. The important thing will be how the team responds on Wednesday against Perth and Sunday against CCM. 

Edited October 18, 2015 by Murfy1

[bellydrum]

Saw a kid last night with a Redmayne jersey. Parents must hate him.

[Tesla]

Just remembering how I said a few times that we should sign Georgievski before there was even any talk of him going to Victory. I suppose with starting fullbacks of Hoffman and Ramsay at the time we really didn't need him  

 

[jw1739]

Who provided the assist for Tuna's goal please?

[heart_fan10]

It was a shit goal to concede at the end but I'm actually not too disappointed with the result 

yes I do agree we need to get better, and we will. But considering a lot of the players in the squad today could pretty much be our reserve team, I think we matched up fairly well against a Victory outfit who had a full squad (Broxham doesn't count he's crap). 

MV are probably seen as the favourites again this season and the ones to beat. We have to remember they will not get much better than what we saw of them last night, and if that's the benchmark, then i am not worried at all. 

[kingofhearts]

Who provided the assist for Tuna's goal please?

was it mauk?

[jw1739]

was it mauk?

It looks like Mauky to me, but I'd like some confirmation if I can get it (I wasn't at the match).

[illeatyourheart]

It looks like Mauky to me, but I'd like some confirmation if I can get it (I wasn't at the match).

It was Mauk

[agoalie]

Who provided the assist for Tuna's goal please?

kisnorbo with forward run down left, passed it to mauk who rolled it into bruno

[Defibrillator]

Taking up Bella's note above of Paartalu defensively, my 12 year old son threw up an idea last night that has got me thinking.  How would Paartalu go as a centre-back?

He's good in the air, has a big frame, reads the game reasonably well, is more mobile than Kisnorbo and has better touch and skills than Kisnorbo, and doesn't shit himself when pressed like Kisnorbo.  I don't think he has looked anywhere near like running out a full game at 6 since he's come to us - he's not fit enough and his frame is too big to carry up and down the park for 90 minutes.

Just a thought for discussion. 

Bring on Melling for six or somehow we ship Bratten over for a stint - that would be gold.

[bt50]

Taking up Bella's note above of Paartalu defensively, my 12 year old son threw up an idea last night that has got me thinking.  How would Paartalu go as a centre-back?

He's good in the air, has a big frame, reads the game reasonably well, is more mobile than Kisnorbo and has better touch and skills than Kisnorbo, and doesn't shit himself when pressed like Kisnorbo.  I don't think he has looked anywhere near like running out a full game at 6 since he's come to us - he's not fit enough and his frame is too big to carry up and down the park for 90 minutes.

Just a thought for discussion. 

Bring on Melling for six or somehow we ship Bratten over for a stint - that would be gold.

JVS out, Defib Jnr in

[Shahanga]

JVS out, Defib Jnr in

what's a small defibrillator? A taser?

[Andrew Edmonds]

So can anyone explain to me what was the use in signing Richardson? Definitely a quality defender compared to our defense atm, young, has decent pace, composed and has a good passing range, so why not play him?

[jw1739]

what's a small defibrillator? A taser?

A pacemaker?

[n i k o]

JVS on Koren:

 

Reputations, it seems, will no longer protect individuals at City. The coach was succinct when asked why he had dragged marquee man Robert Koren, who once captained Slovenia at the World Cup, and former Socceroo Michael Zullo, making his starting debut for City. 

"We just brought in Mauky, because Mauky is a good player. Robbie was flat so that was very simple." On the Zullo replacement at half-time, it was: "We just needed to get something different, and Steve, he gave that."

 

[hakz7]

Just watched the match replay and I gotta say you can barely hear us. It's like there were no mics near us. The allocation for our active fans obviously doesn't help either but yeah.

[hakz7]

Anyone notice the possible handball on Deng around the 84th minute? Kuzi took the shot, Deng's arm was out and it struck it.

[silva10]

So disappointing to lose it at the end when we got back level.

The most disappointing players for me where:

Paartalu (He doesn't read the game well enough, lacks the pace to fill the gaps and doesn't have the passing skills to get us going)

Koren (After the first 10 minutes was invisible until he went off. Needs his contract paid up in January)

Zullo (Looked nowhere near match fit. The first time I have seen him, so I am hoping it is his fitness that is the issue)

Kisnorbo (Predictably uncomfortable on the ball. However, even his defending was poor yesterday)

The positives where:

Fornaroli (Worked his socks off the whole game and got a deserved goal)

Mooy ( When Koren went off he went up a level)

Mauk (One of the reasons why we almost got a point. Was prepared to run past people from midfield and this helped Brumo)

Sorenson (Unfortunately should have done better with the last goal, but still played his part)

I felt sorry for Dekker, because you can see he is a fish out of water in a wide position. Would have been better to have him on the bench, as he may have made a bigger impact against tiring players.

Retre, Chapman and Clisby did some good things and bad things. Chapman looked better when we attacked and came out with the ball a couple of times from defence to start moves off.

I prefer Zinni to Espindola at the moment. Also, Kuzi did a very good cameo.

JVS needs to stop playing people on reputation and play players like Mauk who can add something to our team.

What do people know about this kid Millar who was on the bench? Is he good enough to play as a defensive midfielder?

Edited October 18, 2015 by silva10

[Shahanga]

Always enjoy your (& our other man city friends) insights Silva.

I'm afraid Miller is a bit of a mystery to most of us right now. Billed as a defender cum midfielder.

Up until Sorensen dropped the ball at their strikers foot I thought he had been great. Obviously he needs to not do that again though!

Anyway I wish Koren had to come to work with me today & put up with the  gloating Victory fans, maybe he would have tried a bit harder in that case.

[possiblygeorge]

It's last season all over again. First three matches; 2 draws, one loss.

eh.

No. Nothing to do with luck. This club has a history of conceding goals in the last 5 minutes or so of both first-half and second-half playing time. It's a measure of loss of concentration and of not having a Plan B for these parts of a matches. It's an attitude problem. If we had won yesterday the Victory players would still be in the dressing room with Muscat tearing them to pieces collectively and individually. van 't Schip sees "positives" in the result that Arnold and Muscat never would.

Any way we can exchange those 'positives' for H/A points?

[Shahanga]

Always enjoy your (& our other man city friends) insights Silva.

I'm afraid Miller is a bit of a mystery to most of us right now. Billed as a defender cum midfielder.

Up until Sorensen dropped the ball at their strikers foot I thought he had been great. Obviously he needs to not do that again though!

Anyway I wish Koren had to come to work with me today & put up with the  gloating Victory fans, maybe he would have tried a bit harder in that case.

[Tony999]

Sure it's a loss but teams are expected to win at home and the only won with a last minute goal. I'm certain with all of our players come back we will dispose them easily in the return derby.

[Jovan]

Just a question. 

Does anybody actually believe we will have all our "best" players available for any length of time this season?

Even last years squad was half decent had Kennedy Duff played together. 

I know it's only round 2 but getting bad feeling already. 

[n i k o]

Sure it's a loss but teams are expected to win at home and the only won with a last minute goal. I'm certain with all of our players come back we will dispose them easily in the return derby.

Sorry Tony but damned if I'll ever say they're the home team when I'm attending a mcfc game in my own fucking city. 

[jw1739]

Always enjoy your (& our other man city friends) insights Silva.

I'm afraid Miller is a bit of a mystery to most of us right now. Billed as a defender cum midfielder.

Up until Sorensen dropped the ball at their strikers foot I thought he had been great. Obviously he needs to not do that again though!

Anyway I wish Koren had to come to work with me today & put up with the  gloating Victory fans, maybe he would have tried a bit harder in that case.

That was a costly mistake. But if you watch the build-up to that goal you'll see that our defence is caught out - too far upfield and a man short because there are two Victory players attacking Clisby on our left. And Victory are good enough to see that, that's where the ball goes, and the slightest mistake - in this case Sorensen - and they will have a scoring chance. Which they put away easily.

With a minute to go, 2-2 against the reigning champions, WTF haven't we got an extra man behind the ball? Sydney caught us exactly the same way just on half-time last week.

[rass]

That was a costly mistake. But if you watch the build-up to that goal you'll see that our defence is caught out - too far upfield and a man short because there are two Victory players attacking Clisby on our left. And Victory are good enough to see that, that's where the ball goes, and the slightest mistake - in this case Sorensen - and they will have a scoring chance. Which they put away easily.

With a minute to go, 2-2 against the reigning champions, WTF haven't we got an extra man behind the ball? Sydney caught us exactly the same way just on half-time last week.

JW, I think we were just trying to win it. That mindset took us to 2-2 and with the momentum and belief to win it.

I think what won it for them in the end was the substitution of Pain. As soon as he came on, they had someone willing to run, magnified as Retre was tiring. They knew that and soon as they got it, they tried flicking it out to him every time, hence why he had so many dangerous runs at the end.

You could see that goal coming a mile away but just hoped we would hang on. Biggest injustice of all was it came from that A-grade arsehole.

[Cityslicker09]

So would it be fair to say Koren should not start against CCM? Once he went off it seemed like everything gelled nicely. I hope JVS does not pick people based on reputation or resume and actually plays people who play for the jumper.

[R410]

Anyone notice the possible handball on Deng around the 84th minute? Kuzi took the shot, Deng's arm was out and it struck it.

IMO it was a definite Pen. But becuase Barisha dove 30 seconds later it never got spoken about or replayed. only there pen shout did.

[NewConvert]

One other observation - also made by JVS - was that the players did not show up in the first half. This is becoming a bit of a problem for the team and for that the problem has to be JVS - it is he who is meant to ensure that the players don't go in a defeatist frame of mind.

Someone mentioned whether Koren should start and my answer is no. Let him sit on the bench. Don't care if he is our highest paid player, he goes missing when he should be leading. And no I don't care whether JVS is laying him correctly or not - Mooy and Mauk did not have much of an issue working together.

And someone else asked whether we would ever have a full list to choose from and the most likely answer is no. But I don't expect that nearly a full side be out. For the record James Brown and Marino are long term injuries, and am quite pessimistic of either of those players being available at all this season.

[Heart of Melbourne]

Always enjoy your (& our other man city friends) insights Silva.

I'm afraid Miller is a bit of a mystery to most of us right now. Billed as a defender cum midfielder.

Up until Sorensen dropped the ball at their strikers foot I thought he had been great. Obviously he needs to not do that again though!

Anyway I wish Koren had to come to work with me today & put up with the  gloating Victory fans, maybe he would have tried a bit harder in that case.

been copping it from victory fans all weekend. Sack Koren. Does nothing for the team