Defensive problems

[Murfy1]

There is no problem with the team's scoring. We have scored in every game. We were the first team to score against Sydney FC in over 500 minutes. We have the 3rd highest number of goals scored, 11, behind Perth on 12 and Victory on 15. So the goal production is fine.

 

The problem is the team's defence. There have only been 5 cleansheets over the past 34 games, that is over last season and this season. Defensive problems have been seen over 2 coaches. There was only 1 cleansheet under Aloisi's 12 games, and 4 in the second half of the season under JVS. Unsurprisingly, 3 of those cleansheets lead to 3 wins, half of the 6 wins Melbourne City obtained last season. If you defend well, and if you get cleansheets more often than not, you'll win a lot of games. Football is simple like that.

 

 

I fully agree with others in the Sydney matchday thread that we have the worst defence in the league. Pretty much every observer can see it. Just in Melbourne this season, the team has: conceded 1 against Newcastle, 5 against Victory, 2 against Adelaide, 2 against Central Coast and 2 against Sydney. You can't get a lot of points if you are conceding so many goals, especially when playing at home.

 

 

So there are 2 questions:

 

1) Why is the team's defence so bad?

 

2) And what can be done to improve the team's defending?

[Nate]

1) Poor recruitment. 

 

2) Good recruitment.

[Jovan]

1. Redmanye Weilart,kisnorbo,Hoffman Ramsey

2 GTFO all of em.

[silva10]

Murfy the defence is too slow and don't anticipate well enough.

You need to close players down or drop off and keep a tight line. This defence does neither. They always seem to be caught in no mams land.

All decent Sydney chances were from our mistakes. Redmayne coming for a cross he was nowhere near and Wielhart playing blindly across his back four.

This is down to coaching.

I can't see any success until the whole back 5 is changed!

[n i k o]

This is not a knee jerk response but from the beginning of the season the whole backline should have been changed, or needs to be changed.

[Cityamatic]

Where to start.

 

Firstly, our fullbacks are woeful. As a former AUFC supporter I cannot for the life of me see how JvS can think Ramsay would make a defender - he was barely a winger at his best. Hoffman is..well...Hoffman... and also not a natural defender, he's a 'reformed' striker. This clearly doesn't work, and opposition teams are targeting it every week.

 

Secondly, there is no depth - thus meaning no competition for spots which produces the 'I thought we'd done enough' attitude. Terrible recruitment to blame here.

 

Thirdly,our CB's seem to be slow. And I don't mean in terms of pure pace (this is up for debate also, but how relevant it is I don't know), I mean in terms of reactions and 'quickness' that affects positioning -particularly against balls in the air (I'm thinking Wielart against Jets, the first goal tonight, so on...).

 

Finally our keeper just isn't any good, and his position does not seem to be under any pressure.

 

I could probably go on but that'll do for now, depressing....

[Thrillhouse]

hoffman and ramsey both not defenders

wielaert and kisnorbo both error prone

redmayne is a fucking spastic

give players too much space and clinical players will punish us, ffs we made janko look half decent 

[RedAndWhitePride]

Tbf, Janko is half decent.

[interstatefan]

Ramsay up against Bernie, come on it was like a man against a boy. All over him

Edited November 22, 2014 by interstatefan

[Dylan]

Kisnorbo is a spud. He also runs like a spud. Shit captain. Another aloisi product

Edited November 22, 2014 by Dylan

[agoalie]

too slow, too old. watching connor chapman at the youth derby last week, he looks really good, fast as well with good position. i expect by seasons end he will have replaced robbie. a new lb signing in january will do a world of good also, rather have a kid whose natural position is lb than ramsay. 

[neio]

We only conceded 2 tonight, JVS says what defensive problem

[Nate]

too slow, too old. watching connor chapman at the youth derby last week, he looks really good, fast as well with good position. i expect by seasons end he will have replaced robbie. a new lb signing in january will do a world of good also, rather have a kid whose natural position is lb than ramsay. 

I rate Chapman, got to be better than what we've got at the moment. 

[Melburnian]

Our two CB cannot run. There is no mobility there. Both have turning circles of buses.

Defensive problems? We wish. What we have is a disaster.

None of the back 5 are good enough.

[AaronAV11]

It kills me to say it because i really like him, always one of the only ones giving everything for the club, but its time that Chapman replaces Wielaert. And obviously we need a new left back and keeper. Kisnorbo needs to stay and Hoffman is doing surprisingly well and can stay too.

[n i k o]

Sorry Aaron but I disagree. The whole backline is not good enough.

[Melburnian]

Chapman and Archibald should be our defensive pairing. Both highly talented young players who have mobility and some pace.

Kisnorbo and Weilart are finished. Done.

Garrucio should be our left back also. Ramsay is fucking terrible.

What do we have at Right Back?

[Nate]

Chapman and Archibald should be our defensive pairing. Both highly talented young players who have mobility and some pace.

Kisnorbo and Weilart are finished. Done.

Garrucio should be our left back also. Ramsay is fucking terrible.

What do we have at Right Back?

Too inexperienced imo. 

 

- Hoffman isn't as dreadful as he used to be but we need a proper right back for him to compete with.

- Kisnorbo as elected captain needs to stay, but he also needs to pull his finger out and play at the standard he's capable of (which is more than adequate for A-League level)

- Wielaert as a Visa player needs to go as he hasn't lived up to expectations and should be replaced by a Nikola Petkovic-esque player.

- Chapman needs more time to prove himself before being thrust into a starting role but should be the first choice back-up in the case of poor form or injury, and should be groomed as a future replacement for Kisnorbo. 

- Archibald is a handy squad player for now but if he can really develop his game, then there's every possibility he could be Hoffman's competition for right back. 

- Ramsay is so out of his depth it isn't funny, but I don't think Garuccio is the answer. Do we really want to play another winger at left back? Sign a new one. 

- Tando and Redders are both inadequate and this dilemma is the first which HAS to be resolved.

 

Who knows when any of these sorts of changes are actually possible and feasible but they have to be made or else we'll continue to concede in the manner we do.

[GreenSeater]

As much as I'd love Chapman and Archibald to get gametime, I'd hate for them to be thrown in the deep end and drown. We can't just stick two kids at centre half full time. It would kill their development. As much as I hate to admit it, I think we're stuck with Robbie and Paddy at least most games until season's end.

[AaronAV11]

Sorry Aaron but I disagree. The whole backline is not good enough.

if kisnorbo is partnered with a young faster centre back like chapman he would be so much better and they would form a good partnership. You cant have two old and slow centre backs, so with kisnorbo being better than Wielart and our captain, he needs to stay in my opinion. As for Hoffman, hes been solid this year with out being outstanding, so we need to focus on a left back, centre back and goalkeeper before we consider replacing hoffman

[NewConvert]

First I thought that Chapman had another bout of glandular fever and was not available. If so, he is not the immediate answer. If not, then we need for him to develop match fitness at the NYL level before bringing him to the bench, and gradually start giving him minutes on the park. Which brings me to Archibald, why is he not getting some minutes under his belt? I know he is listed as a mid-fielder but I was under the impression that he was a defensive mid-fielder. Start Archibald in place of Wieleart for the first half, and then bring on Wieleart for the second half. Then his pace won't be so much of an issue and (I am going to get pilloried for this) his experience will come in handy. Once Chapman has recovered enough then start giving him some game time.

From yesterday's starting 11, three players are out contract at season's end: Kirsnorbo, Wieleart and Ramsay. At this stage none of them should get another contract - as much as I like the way Paddy plays the game and is one of the few hard nuts that we have, he is now too old for the game. I also believe that Velaphi had only a one year extension on his contract so he should finish at season's end. For whatever reason he has not been able to displace Redders as the starting keeper, then what is the point?

This forum observed the defensive problems in the pre-season and officially by bringing in Chapman there is meant to be competition but his  unexpected glandular fever and Germano's lack of recovery from soft tissue injury has probably dealt a blow to the coaching staff's plan. However, it is now up to the coaching staff to devise a new defensive plan with what is at hand. And as I mentioned in the Liam Miller forum, they should have approached Jason Davidson and WBA (I am assuming that the club did not do this) for a loan spell.

If Kalmar does depart that may free up some salary cap. An alternative is to approach Yokohama Marinos (a sister club after all) and see whether they have a spare defender that may be willing to come to play for City in their off season. It may not be ideal but I think that things are desperate.

[fastfly100]

Hoffman had been in our best 3 for at least 75% of the games this year  

readmayne as a fellow goal keeper I feel sorry for the lad he is aleague quality shame about the mistake last night but take Ian and Robbie out of the defence and replace them with half decent defenders you will notice a change

[Kiro Kompiro]

The back 5 need to go.  

People  defending Hoffman:  Ok he hasn't had any brain freezes like the others but he offers nothing in an attacking sense.  Every position on the pitch counts.  Its a luxury we can't afford having  a serviceable full back.

 

Also, we can't keep saying "get someone from overseas".  We need to scout the State Leagues, and youth players.

[Kiro Kompiro]

Then there is the fact that the defending is the same as it was in season 1 under JVS, so its a bit of coach and a bot of the players.

[belaguttman]

I was watching Chapman play in the youth derby last week, it was a very poor game but he was a level above the rest of the field, unless he's relapsed since last saturday he is playing. We do need to be careful to not push him too quickly though, playing a senior game every week would be risky at this stage.

The problems are both tactical and player based. We don't have the players to play a compact high defensive line as our CBs are too slow as everyone mentions. Hoffman has improved a lot defensively but still makes too many mistakes. Ramsay should not be playing in any position yet alone LB, his positioning and skill level are both poor. The next problem is with our attacking transition, there are either few forward options or the first pass is errant and is intercepted and the ball is immediately turned over. This in itself wouldn't be a problem if we have a good defensive shape but we don't. The next problem is in defensive transition, we get players back too slowly, especially Ramsay and this creates attacking space. The next problem is our man marking around the box, we regularly fail to track players. The next problem is with our keeper, good at reflex saves but poorly positioned too often, poor decision making, never commands his box and has never saved a single penalty for us.

The final problem is with our defensive depth. Ramsay is the only one of the back 5 to have been dropped this season and his replacement Garuccio is also no left back, so there's no competition and no consequences for poor performance, no chance of improvement. 

 

I doubt that we'll keep one clean sheet this season, we'd have to be playing a very incompetent team.

[neio]

Gone through every goal conceded and worked out who was most to blame

Gamiero - good strike, not blaming anyone

Montano - Ramsay let cross in

Thompson(1) - he was offside, but redmayne did push the save right towards him

Berisha (1) - I can't remember

Berisha (2) - the whole team who he ran past

Berisha (3) - James Brown penalty

Thompson (2) - I think this was combo of kisnorbo and Hoffman but could be wrong

Djite - a combo of villa, garruccio,wielaert and redmayne

Carrusca - penalty by redmayne but mistake by garruccio

Borrello - I'm not going to really blame anyone on this one

Trifiro - good free kick, if being harsh redmayne was off line

Hutchinson - retre, Miller, kisnorbo, Ramsay, wielaert and anyone else that there

Janko (1) - Ramsay being no where near cross

Janko (2) - wielaert giving it straight to him

Now as you can see there isn't a lot of goals that have come from their good play, I can cop goals from quality play or players but not all these basic errors

[Kiro Kompiro]

Gone through every goal conceded and worked out who was most to blame

Gamiero - good strike, not blaming anyone

Montano - Ramsay let cross in

Thompson(1) - he was offside, but redmayne did push the save right towards him

Berisha (1) - I can't remember

Berisha (2) - the whole team who he ran past

Berisha (3) - James Brown penalty

Thompson (2) - I think this was combo of kisnorbo and Hoffman but could be wrong

Djite - a combo of villa, garruccio,wielaert and redmayne

Carrusca - penalty by redmayne but mistake by garruccio

Borrello - I'm not going to really blame anyone on this one

Trifiro - good free kick, if being harsh redmayne was off line

Hutchinson - retre, Miller, kisnorbo, Ramsay, wielaert and anyone else that there

Janko (1) - Ramsay being no where near cross

Janko (2) - wielaert giving it straight to him

Now as you can see there isn't a lot of goals that have come from their good play, I can cop goals from quality play or players but not all these basic errors

 

 

THIS is what kills me.

 

We have never been out played.

 

The 5-2 loss against the scum flattered them so much it wasn't funny.  They play like shit for all but two games and they are on top of the ladder and everyone thinks Muscat is Guardiola.

 

BUT this THE pattern under JVS and his squads.  If you went and did the same for season's 1 and 2 you'd find the same pattern. Our mistakes gifting games.  It is what it is.

 

As our coach I'd expect him to practice solid sessions with the back 5 overloaded and under pressure dfending, and then the same playing out, so they can learn to think under pressure

[Thrillhouse]

Was there a reason why we got rid of bray?

[MaliMate]

Kisnorbo and Weilart are finished. Done.

I think the fact that they play together is to their detriment. Too similar in style. A good CB pairing usually has a Silk & Steel combination (eg Pique-Puyol, Carvahlo-Terry, Ferdinand-Vidic) unfortunanetly we have decided to go with the Steel & Steel combo which means teams get in behind with ease. I think the obvious solution is to keep Kisnorbo (captain) in and bring in one of the young CB's for Wielaert.

Our most successful period as a club was with Madaschi & Hammill/Good starting as the 2 CB's.

[rass]

Gone through every goal conceded and worked out who was most to blame

Gamiero - good strike, not blaming anyone

Montano - Ramsay let cross in

Thompson(1) - he was offside, but redmayne did push the save right towards him

Berisha (1) - I can't remember

Berisha (2) - the whole team who he ran past

Berisha (3) - James Brown penalty

Thompson (2) - I think this was combo of kisnorbo and Hoffman but could be wrong

Djite - a combo of villa, garruccio,wielaert and redmayne

Carrusca - penalty by redmayne but mistake by garruccio

Borrello - I'm not going to really blame anyone on this one

Trifiro - good free kick, if being harsh redmayne was off line

Hutchinson - retre, Miller, kisnorbo, Ramsay, wielaert and anyone else that there

Janko (1) - Ramsay being no where near cross

Janko (2) - wielaert giving it straight to him

Now as you can see there isn't a lot of goals that have come from their good play, I can cop goals from quality play or players but not all these basic errors

 

Not Ramsay on the first goal last night. He was just trying to get forward and overlap when Miller gave up possession too easily. Was a combo of Miller, Redmayne and Kisnorbo.

[KSK_47]

 

 

BUT this THE pattern under JVS and his squads.  If you went and did the same for season's 1 and 2 you'd find the same pattern. Our mistakes gifting games.

 

 

This- Lets not ignore his signature snail pace transition from defense to attack either

[Nate]

 

Kisnorbo and Weilart are finished. Done.

I think the fact that they play together is to their detriment. Too similar in style. A good CB pairing usually has a Silk & Steel combination (eg Pique-Puyol, Carvahlo-Terry, Ferdinand-Vidic) unfortunanetly we have decided to go with the Steel & Steel combo which means teams get in behind with ease. I think the obvious solution is to keep Kisnorbo (captain) in and bring in one of the young CB's for Wielaert.

Our most successful period as a club was with Madaschi & Hammill/Good starting as the 2 CB's.

 

Out of likes, but like. 

[gunheart]

Redmayne piss off, at least give Tando a run too see if he's any good.

Ramsay needs to be put down.

Hoff has a crack. Better as a back up.

Kisnorbo has a crack. Losing it but has passion.

Wheel out the wheelchair for Wielaert, old/slow n needs to go.

[japiedog]

the asian cup break can't come quick enough, for these spuds to have a break from swanning around

a mid season killer training session with  their asses getting whipped, and the threat of no job next year is the only thing that is going to have any effect on them

[Nate]

the asian cup break can't come quick enough, for these spuds to have a break from swanning around

a mid season killer training session with  their asses getting whipped, and the threat of no job next year is the only thing that is going to have any effect on them

Knowing our luck, Mooy will break his leg for the Socceroos 5 seconds after coming on as a sub in the 92nd minute and we'll lose him for the season. 

Otherwise yes, please bring on the Asian Cup 

[Tesla]

How many goals are Hoffman's fault? And for a guy whose role seems to be just as much an attacking one as a defensive one...

Wielart needs to go because he is a waste of a visa spot but I think a lot of the reason he is poor is that he seems to be too far up the pitch a lot of the time, and I can only imagine that's JVS' fault as either:

He is instructing Wielart to do that (which I believe is the case)

OR

Wielart isn't doing as he is told and shouldn't be playing if that's the case

Edited November 23, 2014 by Tesla

[Tesla]

Chapman and Archibald should be our defensive pairing. Both highly talented young players who have mobility and some pace.

Kisnorbo and Weilart are finished. Done.

Garrucio should be our left back also. Ramsay is fucking terrible.

What do we have at Right Back?

Too inexperienced imo. 

 

- Hoffman isn't as dreadful as he used to be but we need a proper right back for him to compete with.

- Kisnorbo as elected captain needs to stay, but he also needs to pull his finger out and play at the standard he's capable of (which is more than adequate for A-League level)

- Wielaert as a Visa player needs to go as he hasn't lived up to expectations and should be replaced by a Nikola Petkovic-esque player.

- Chapman needs more time to prove himself before being thrust into a starting role but should be the first choice back-up in the case of poor form or injury, and should be groomed as a future replacement for Kisnorbo. 

- Archibald is a handy squad player for now but if he can really develop his game, then there's every possibility he could be Hoffman's competition for right back. 

- Ramsay is so out of his depth it isn't funny, but I don't think Garuccio is the answer. Do we really want to play another winger at left back? Sign a new one. 

- Tando and Redders are both inadequate and this dilemma is the first which HAS to be resolved.

 

Who knows when any of these sorts of changes are actually possible and feasible but they have to be made or else we'll continue to concede in the manner we do.

Pretty much this.

For now, Hoffman is the least of our problems.

Not convinced by the youngsters, so not sure about them starting at CB, but if any of them can play LB i'll fucking take anyone at this stage. i'll take Garuccio, i'll take Chapman or Archibald if they can play LB (even if they can't TBH), i'll take whoever is the NYL LB at the moment.

We need a keeper.

[jw1739]

I think there's a tendency to be unfair to some of the players. For example, Robbie Wielaert. It's not his fault that he turns 36 in December and is getting short on pace and athleticism - it was Heart that signed him on a two-year contract. He may also have made a couple of on-field mistakes - for example yesterday - but he's conducted himself in a thoroughly professional manner since arriving, and been stand-in captain on numerous occasions when Kewell wasn't available. Every time I've seen him stretching out for pace I've expected him to go down with a hamstring problem, but he's kept himself fit enough to at least stay on the park.

 

Players have contracts, and it's been discussed many times that these cannot be unilaterally terminated. The club can use its best endeavours to try and find unwanted players a new club, but they cannot just sack them and stay within the salary cap.

 

Many mistakes have been made by the current football management. Focussing on the players at this stage is pointless. All CFG can do is change the management, which means a shake-up of the whole football department. OK, there's a body of opinion that says changing the coach in mid-season doesn't show much advantage. The positive IMO is that you get in a new set of eyes to look at the players you've got and then you are in a much better position to make some sound decisions on signings, and any re-signings, for 2015/16.

[wombegongal]

I think there's a tendency to be unfair to some of the players. For example, Robbie Wielaert. It's not his fault that he turns 36 in December and is getting short on pace and athleticism - it was Heart that signed him on a two-year contract. He may also have made a couple of on-field mistakes - for example yesterday - but he's conducted himself in a thoroughly professional manner since arriving, and been stand-in captain on numerous occasions when Kewell wasn't available. Every time I've seen him stretching out for pace I've expected him to go down with a hamstring problem, but he's kept himself fit enough to at least stay on the park.

 

Players have contracts, and it's been discussed many times that these cannot be unilaterally terminated. The club can use its best endeavours to try and find unwanted players a new club, but they cannot just sack them and stay within the salary cap.

 

Many mistakes have been made by the current football management. Focussing on the players at this stage is pointless. All CFG can do is change the management, which means a shake-up of the whole football department. OK, there's a body of opinion that says changing the coach in mid-season doesn't show much advantage. The positive IMO is that you get in a new set of eyes to look at the players you've got and then you are in a much better position to make some sound decisions on signings, and any re-signings, for 2015/16.

 

I agree that some players are unfairly judged. I still don't get how so many people rate Kisnorbo but think Wielaert is terrible. With the exception of his gift last night (although Kisnorbo offered him no option) he is our only player that can play the ball out from the back. He is also the organiser in our defence. He would be a much better pairing than with a young centre back for mine than Kisnorbo. Either way people are correct in noting there is no competition for spots and both are slow.

[tommac]

 

Kisnorbo and Weilart are finished. Done.

I think the fact that they play together is to their detriment. Too similar in style. A good CB pairing usually has a Silk & Steel combination (eg Pique-Puyol, Carvahlo-Terry, Ferdinand-Vidic) unfortunanetly we have decided to go with the Steel & Steel combo which means teams get in behind with ease. I think the obvious solution is to keep Kisnorbo (captain) in and bring in one of the young CB's for Wielaert.

Our most successful period as a club was with Madaschi & Hammill/Good starting as the 2 CB's.

 

Wholeheartedly agree with this. I am really looking forward to Chapman being introduced- he is seriously quality. He'll be in Europe by the end of next season if he stays fit for us.  He is great on the ball and very proactive ( will play precise passes FORWARD to feet), and is sharper across the ground than Wielart and Kisnorbo.