The APL/FA Management Thread

[n i k o]

19 minutes ago, HEARTinator said:

Excellent post from RBB Facebook page.  These guys are sooooo delusional. And then they cloak their stupidity with support for charities - as if that makes them angels.

Looks like they're not going to be happy with the FFA anytime soon. Back to boycotts.

___________________________________________________________________________________

 

Red and Black Bloc

4 hrs ·

The RBB would like to thank all those who attended the information evening at Marconi last night and shared their concerns, opinions and suggestions in person.

To summarise;

Flares:

- Many opinions were heard from members in attendance on this issue. It was concluded that the RBB does not encourage anyone to participate in any prohibited activity, and those who have, have done so at their own risk. The consequences are known to all. The RBB supports the notion of personal choice as per our representation at the senate hearing late last year.

I understand this as if you want to rip flares that's fine as its your choice, we don't oppose you doing so but we won't encourage you either.

- The incident at Melbourne over the weekend led to the general consensus on the night that this issue has been exacerbated in the media, and that if it was not flare use, the Wanderers fan base would have been targeted over other issue.

Yes I couldn't help but smirk at this either. Typical WSW mentality.

- It was agreed that flare use has been prevalent in Australia before the Wanderers came along and is not an issue that is unique to us. Any punishments applied, should be applied across the board. Consistency is key.

Combined with bangers and displays inciting a violent message. The full package of all things that happened is something that has rarely been seen in the league as far as I remember. 

- We will be awaiting information from the FFA regarding their flare management plan which will be presented to all parties.

Appeals Process:

- Members were updated on the progress of the appeal system to be presented by the FFA. This is due to be delivered by the end of this week, with the deadline for the system to be up and running being February 19th.

- The FFA have stated that what they present is NOT negotiable, and that the events of this past weekend have no bearing or consequence on the appeals system.

- There was a meeting request from the FFA a few weeks ago to discuss "fan engagement". We were promised this meeting would not be to renege on any agreement made regarding the appeals process and was entirely independent of it. We did not decline this engagement, but were happy to participate in this meeting once the appeal system was finalised.

- Concerns were raised by members if the system would not be what was agreed upon by all 10 active supporter groups on the night, and that the FFA would not allow any further discussion on this. The consensus was that the FFA must be held to this, and action must be taken if they fail to meet this commitment.

Moving on:

- As per the statements made the day following the FFA meeting, all 10 active supporter groups stated their intention to hold the FFA accountable should they fail to meet this commitment. This means that the boycotts which were temporarily suspended in good faith to allow the FFA to work through this process, would once again commence should the points not be presented as agreed.

These guys are fucking idiots. Act like fuckwits over the weekend and still expect FFA to work with them. They don't deserve the FFA to work with them after the shit they pulled. Arrogant self centred cunts thinking they are bigger than the league and the game. 

- Members in attendance were vocal in their opinion that the FFA should be held to account and that a return to boycotts is necessary should they fail to meet this commitment. One member confirmed that he had purchased tickets to the derby on February 20th, flights to Brisbane away and flights to Wellington away, but would happily sacrifice all those to participate in sending a strong message by boycotting.

Why isn't anyone in their supporter group being held accountable? Why isn't anyone who attended this meeting being held accountable for not making a stronger statement against the use of flares. Instead of saying they don't encourage it and that it's a personal choice. Could be because the leaders are in on it as well. 

- It was agreed that a decision on any action to be taken, regarding the first game after the February 19th deadline, would be reserved until the document provided by the FFA was thoroughly considered. This would mean that this decision would apply for the away derby on February 20th. An announcement would be in conjunction with other supporter groups, and would likely be early next week.

Charity:

- There were numerous worthy causes discussed on the night, and it was agreed that we could support a number of different organisations over the coming months. Members who proposed certain charities and causes will provide details, which in turn will be announced officially via social media.

- Following the FFA's announcement of a $50,000 fine for WSW, we propose that the FFA donate this amount in full to various charities in Western Sydney. We would be happy to suggest some worthy charities to whom this money would be of greater benefit, as opposed to it being a bonus for the FFA.

See you all on Sunday at home vs Wellington.

Forever RBB, forever West Sydney.

 

[Nate]

37 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

I've also been reflecting on the fact that last season FFA demoted Perth to 7th position on the ladder, and announced that punishment well before the end of the season. In the end it was the equivalent of -17 points. Yes, that's right, -17 points (50 points down to 33 to get them out of the finals series). No ifs or buts, no "suspension" there. I think fans of clubs in the league might well ask the question about the fairness of the decisions made by FFA.

a salary cap rort compromising the integrity of the competition is entirely different to a bunch of hooligan plebs setting off flares, it's silly to compare the two scenarios.

[Tony999]

I could say something here but I'll be labeled a RACIST so I'm reserve my comment

[thisphantomfortress]

Did we expect anything less from these braindead morons, rotten to the core.

[n i k o]

The best part is all the comments below the statement. 

[hakz7]

3 hours ago, Shahanga said:

Sorry I missed that key word "suspended". I thought they lost 3 points.

i agree with you JW. Toothless tigers. Well until they actually do something this sort of behaviour will continue. FFA reap what you sew.

Wait, I thought the same thing lol. So what does "suspended points" mean?

[n i k o]

Just now, hakz7 said:

Wait, I thought the same thing lol. So what does "suspended points" mean?

Quite certain next season they will start on -3. 

[Shahanga]

8 hours ago, Nate said:

a salary cap rort compromising the integrity of the competition is entirely different to a bunch of hooligan plebs setting off flares, it's silly to compare the two scenarios.

Sorry mate but I think you are wrong. There behaviour is such that they are on track to alienate the game from mainstream Australia and in essence render it unviable and possibly illegal. They are violating the integrity of the competition.

As to their boycott, well sounds cool. Easier than banning the fools.

6 hours ago, hakz7 said:

Wait, I thought the same thing lol. So what does "suspended points" mean?

You are obviously a law abiding citizen!

suspended means it's hanging over your head but hasn't been implemented. Frankly they've already HAD a suspended sentence, all this does is spread a message of weakness.

[jw1739]

19 hours ago, Nate said:

a salary cap rort compromising the integrity of the competition is entirely different to a bunch of hooligan plebs setting off flares, it's silly to compare the two scenarios.

Yes, it is different. The Perth Glory club was rightly punished for exceeding the salary cap, and as I read the evidence, doing so deliberately and knowingly - it wasn't just a minor accounting error. The integrity of the 2014-15 season was threatened, and the measure taken by FFA was appropriate IMO. But I don't believe that what Perth did compromised or threatened the image of the league and the game across the country; much like the Melbourne Storm salary cap rorts, the Muscat tackle on Zahra, Alistair Lynch getting 12 matches in his final AFL match - these all created bad press for their respective games at the time but I don't believe that they caused sustained damage.

Crowd behaviour at football (soccer) matches is indeed an entirely different issue. Over the past 5+ seasons I have made a number of attempts to introduce friends in my demographic to Heart/City. Without exception their main reason for not going to watch is their perception of crowd behaviour - they're surprised I go, even more surprised that Mrs JW is also a member, and I get questions such as "Aren't you scared of being attacked for wearing the wrong colours?" and all that sort of thing.

Crowd behaviour has been made a primary concern by FFA, and rightly so because whatever we think and whatever the facts really are it is the public's perception of bad crowd behaviour that is one of the reasons the game does not grow in this country. Despite this, when actually presented with an opportunity to address an instance of such behaviour, FFA wimps out; neither the fine to the club nor the (suspended) deduction of 3 competition points, is directed towards the actual perpetrators.

You may disagree with me, but in terms of the game as a whole I believe that FFA has failed to act appropriately on this issue and that its measures are completely inadequate.

[johnno cpfc]

Interesting to note that most of the so called active RBB spectators were wearing Black tops which seems to me to be not the colours that most RBB members would wear I to have had a taste of flare throwing but outside the stadium and i found it to be very scary at the time, i believe that we "myself and Mrs Johnno " had a lucky escape then and i have no wish for that kind of behaviour to become entrenched in our game,to which i must add that black tops were being worn on that occasion as well. I think that WSW should ban the RBB for three home matches and inform them that if there behaviour do's not improve then the RBB will be banned completely. I know this sounds a bit extreme but this is what may bring them to their senses.

 

Edited February 12, 2016 by johnno cpfc

[Nate]

3 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Yes, it is different. The Perth Glory club was rightly punished for exceeding the salary cap, and as I read the evidence, doing so deliberately and knowingly - it wasn't just a minor accounting error. The integrity of the 2014-15 season was threatened, and the measure taken by FFA was appropriate IMO. But I don't believe that what Perth did compromised or threatened the image of the league and the game across the country; much like the Melbourne Storm salary cap rorts, the Muscat tackle on Zahra, Alistair Lynch getting 12 matches in his final AFL match - these all created bad press for their respective games at the time but I don't believe that they caused sustained damage.

Crowd behaviour at football (soccer) matches is indeed an entirely different issue. Over the past 5+ seasons I have made a number of attempts to introduce friends in my demographic to Heart/City. Without exception their main reason for not going to watch is their perception of crowd behaviour - they're surprised I go, even more surprised that Mrs JW is also a member, and I get questions such as "Aren't you scared of being attacked for wearing the wrong colours?" and all that sort of thing.

Crowd behaviour has been made a primary concern by FFA, and rightly so because whatever we think and whatever the facts really are it is the public's perception of bad crowd behaviour that is one of the reasons the game does not grow in this country. Despite this, when actually presented with an opportunity to address an instance of such behaviour, FFA wimps out; neither the fine to the club nor the (suspended) deduction of 3 competition points, is directed towards the actual perpetrators.

You may disagree with me, but in terms of the game as a whole I believe that FFA has failed to act appropriately on this issue and that its measures are completely inadequate.

No, I agree completely with your sentiments! That was actually a really great response. 

My comments were more about comparing and dealing with the two sets of circumstances differently as the problems stem from two completely different origins; the salary cap ordeal occurring due to incompetent management and poor club governance, and the flare/RBB behaviour ordeal being more of a cultural issue. 

You're right, the FFA have taken a soft stance on the matter and it's only going to continue until firmer action is taken. I must ask the question though, do you think the FFA would have been more inclined to deduct points if WSW wasn't sitting on top of the table? I believe the fact the Wanderers are doing so well may have inadvertently saved them to be perfectly honest. 

[jw1739]

I suspect that you might be right - FFA is reluctant to deduct points from one of the top sides and at a fairly late stage of the season. Perhaps, therefore, points deductions ought to take effect the following season? But even so, I don't think points deductions address the root cause of the problem - which is the RBB.

[hakz7]

Copa90's video on "How A-League fans beat the system in Australia." They showed one of the Melburnians' banner very briefly lol.

 

Edited February 12, 2016 by hakz7

[belaguttman]

Good to see Copa90 covering the A-League, its a shame that it only has 2 teams and they are all based in Sydney

[thisphantomfortress]

14 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

Good to see Copa90 covering the A-League, its a shame that it only has 2 teams and they are all based in Sydney

For me having a behind the scenes look at all of this, it was a shame CCM role wasn't highlighted more, even their CEO was on the pitch holding a banner. The focus here was just on the two big attention seekers and the overly media friendly cove. But what made it such a success was the fact clubs like CCM and Newcastle who traditionally don't involve themselves in this sort of stuff got behind it

Edited February 12, 2016 by thisphantomfortress

[jw1739]

I can't see how FFA can avoid taking some action against MV after last night. At least one flare lit, and objects thrown onto the pitch. Failure to take action will indicate that FFA is going to single out clubs/groups of spectators based on the "magnitude" of the offence, and not have a uniform approach across the board.

Edited February 14, 2016 by jw1739

[thisphantomfortress]

12 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

I can't see how FFA can avoid taking some action against MV after last night. At least one flare lit, and objects thrown onto the pitch. Failure to take action will indicate that FFA is going to single out clubs/groups of spectators based on the "magnitude" of the offence, and not have a uniform approach across the board.

I have a sneaky suspicion following the protests a lot more of the behavioural stuff will be put back on the clubs by the FFA now

[johnno cpfc]

On 2/12/2016 at 4:04 AM, hakz7 said:

Copa90's video on "How A-League fans beat the system in Australia." They showed one of the Melburnians' banner very briefly lol.

 

Yes a great video and then these fools go and ruin it after only a week from the last disgusting effort, thank you Melbourne victory North terrace you bunch of neanderthals.

 

[n i k o]

Banners trying to instigate tension and animosity, bangers exploding during the game, 19 flares lit. Punishment, $50k and a suspended three points.

In comparison..... 

Last night up to 3 flares lit and a handful of plastic bottles thrown. Punishment, absolutely fuck all. 

 

 

FFA won't do shit.

Edited February 14, 2016 by n i k o

[GreenSeater]

http://www.a-league.com.au/article/ffa-statement-regarding-last-nights-melbourne-derby/1qyerdpvum56l1kxnnjwhtyfvz

[jw1739]

As above.

"We are gathering information from Victoria Police and others on the incidents that occurred before and during last night's A-League match at AAMI Park in Melbourne," said FFA CEO David Gallop.

"In particular, we are deeply concerned by the ignition of flares inside and outside the stadium by people identified as Melbourne Victory supporters.

"Given the circumstances we found ourselves in after last week's incidents involving a section of Western Sydney Wanderers supporters at Etihad Stadium, it's staggering that some Victory fans chose to act in this way. The spotlight could not have been more on fan behaviour.

"We expect to be able to announce the next steps in relation to these incidents tomorrow (Monday). It is worth noting they have cast a shadow over what was a fabulous game of football. Clearly, we would prefer to be talking about a pulsating 2-2 contest that was an exciting exhibition of our players' skills and the closeness of our competition."

[Shahanga]

The tards behaved like, well, tards. What did anyone expect? They weren't named by accident.

The plastic bottles was a bit of a storm in a tea cup though. The same thing happened at our game against WSW when the ref ignored the flag to award a dubious goal.

You want to see "an incident" Google what happened when wally Lewis got sin binned at Lang Park in state of origin.

Anyway with the flares etc they are showing why I and many others rolled our eyes when they and their WSW clones kept going on about "wrongful bans"

Edited February 14, 2016 by Shahanga
link added

[thisphantomfortress]

FFA have just given the CEO's the updated appeals process. Giving it to the active areas in 10 minutes. My prediction; 8 terraces will be happy, two won't be.

[thisphantomfortress]

Big statement being made by the FFA re;fan behaviour. Putting it back on the clubs now to weed out the rogue elements. I daresay anyone foolish enough to light a flare in either NT or RBB now is going to be very unpopular with their wider fan bases.

[jw1739]

13 minutes ago, thisphantomfortress said:

Big statement being made by the FFA re;fan behaviour. Putting it back on the clubs now to weed out the rogue elements. I daresay anyone foolish enough to light a flare in either NT or RBB now is going to be very unpopular with their wider fan bases.

I hope to goodness this will not be another season where the league standings are going to be determined by an FFA penalty. It will do the competition, and football generally, no good at all if that is the case.

[bt50]

21 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

I hope to goodness this will not be another season where the league standings are going to be determined by an FFA penalty. It will do the competition, and football generally, no good at all if that is the case.

Agree, but it may be necessary to weed out the flares for good. Until that happens the game is always going to be subject to slander and fear mongering from the non football media and will subsequently be disadvantaged.

Like many, I personally don't have a problem with flares and think the stigma surrounding them is ridiculous. That being said, the media attention and assumptions they are generating is proving detrimental to the progress the game has made here in the past ten years. Anyone stupid enough to light one from here has no business associating themselves with the game; they are purely putting their own views and preferences above that of the game, their club and their fellow fans.

Edited February 16, 2016 by bt50

[Tony999]

[malloy]

2 hours ago, thisphantomfortress said:

Big statement being made by the FFA re;fan behaviour. Putting it back on the clubs now to weed out the rogue elements. I daresay anyone foolish enough to light a flare in either NT or RBB now is going to be very unpopular with their wider fan bases.

This. It is a good tactic as it severely reduces the support active groups will recieve from general supporters in relation to protests etc after any indescretion causes points losses. And with that gone any protests will be distrgarded alot easier and the general football supporters will call for more bans etc.  General supporters will now be more in tune with the indrscretions of their own supporters onstead of just listening to active supporters claiming they have no evidence and that they are innocent etc.

 

Two things that has always annoyed me is the lack of understanding of FFA not needing a real reason to ban people and some of these so called hools not accepting bans as an 'occupational hazard'.  There would be very few banned supporters who can say they weren't deserving of it. 

[cadete]

13 minutes ago, malloy said:

This. It is a good tactic as it severely reduces the support active groups will recieve from general supporters in relation to protests etc after any indescretion causes points losses. And with that gone any protests will be distrgarded alot easier and the general football supporters will call for more bans etc.  General supporters will now be more in tune with the indrscretions of their own supporters onstead of just listening to active supporters claiming they have no evidence and that they are innocent etc.

 

Two things that has always annoyed me is the lack of understanding of FFA not needing a real reason to ban people and some of these so called hools not accepting bans as an 'occupational hazard'.  There would be very few banned supporters who can say they weren't deserving of it. 

So True - For too long certain clubs rank and file Active Supporters who are on the outside of what happens with their more hardcore supporters have been way too misinformed on what there more hardcore fans get up to or have been banned for... they never had to worry about being attacked due to the large numbers who follow their clubs.

So they have been therefore happy to peddle the "Media is Against The Game" and "The FFA Bans are Unfair" that those they look up to as Terrace Leaders/Personalities throw their way. As they never really saw what the FFA has tried to stamp out except for some flares here and there.

Now maybe they can see the reality of the situation and who these PPL actually are and what they enjoy and pursue as Soccer Fans... something as Heart fans we got to see all the time due to our small numbers when encountering these types.

Edited February 17, 2016 by cadete

[Tesla]

So, who is going to go to a Victory game and let off a flare to cost them 3 points?

[cadete]

2 minutes ago, Tesla said:

So, who is going to go to a Victory game and let off a flare to cost them 3 points?

Could see some NSL Bitter doing this... more so at a WSW game though.

[Tesla]

4 minutes ago, cadete said:

Could see some NSL Bitter doing this... more so at a WSW game though.

That's why I don't like club punishments for fan behaviour, especially like this where it has a direct affect on the team's league points.

Yeah it's unlikely, but not so unlikely that it shouldn't be considered as a reason to not implement punishments like this.

[Embee]

5 minutes ago, Tesla said:

That's why I don't like club punishments for fan behaviour, especially like this where it has a direct affect on the team's league points.

Yeah it's unlikely, but not so unlikely that it shouldn't be considered as a reason to not implement punishments like this.

To be fair though, the punishments the Tards and Wanderers have received have been down to more than the lighting of one or two flares.

The Wanderers had a massive, coordinated Pyro show (with a banner) that temporarily halted a game and the Tards committed a string of offences (both inside and outside the ground) which have lead to the punishments incurred. I highly doubt that one or two flares here or there are going to lead to 50k fines and point penalties every time they occur.

 

[Thrillhouse]

looks stupid having a $50k fine for both 19 flares and what 3 by the victory
rip 1 and you might aswell rip em all

if anyones stupid enough to do it at our home games i'd hope the person cops a beatdown 

[n i k o]

2 minutes ago, Thrillhouse said:

looks stupid having a $50k fine for both 19 flares and what 3 by the victory
rip 1 and you might aswell rip em all

if anyones stupid enough to do it at our home games i'd hope the person cops a beatdown 

The sheer idiocy to light flares both inside and outside the stadium after the RBB stunt is worth equal if not more punishment IMO. Not stupid by any stretch of the imagination. 

[bt50]

Tbh i reckon if terraces turn the culprits over I think they won't take the points. 

The minute they resist that is the minute the points are deducted 

[KSK_47]

53 minutes ago, cadete said:

Could see some NSL Bitter doing this... more so at a WSW game though.

Like that fuckwit at the first derby

[n i k o]

I could see it happening more at a victory game tbh. There's a number of clubs particularly in the NSL who are on bad terms with the NT due to their actions. 

[Tesla]

Speaking of NSL bitters, if the FFA is serious about taking a hard line approach against bad fan behaviour rather than just trying to deflect the current media scrutiny, why have they allowed CCM to sign a player who has previously tried to steal banners and incite violence at A-league games?

If these characters aren't welcome in the A-league then that should apply to on the field as well I think. 

Edited February 17, 2016 by Tesla

[cadete]

19 minutes ago, Tesla said:

Speaking of NSL bitters, if the FFA is serious about taking a hard line approach against bad fan behaviour rather than just trying to deflect the current media scrutiny, why have they allowed CCM to sign a player who has previously tried to steal banners and incite violence at A-league games?

If these characters aren't welcome in the A-league then that should apply to on the field as well I think. 

It must be Cardinal Pell and Tony Abbott pulling their CCC strings...

Edited February 17, 2016 by cadete