The Paddy Kisnorbo thread

[Mr MO]

1 hour ago, malloy said:

With Rado, I feel his style of coaching/play is not suited to a JMac style striker (or the rest of the makeup of the squad for that matter), so I don't feel we are necessarily getting the best out of the team as a whole or truly seeing Rado's capability. Given who we are owned by, I don't see our attempted style of play changing either, so I don't think its necessarily a case of Rado radically changing the tactics to suit JMac. That being said I am not sold on Rado, but similarly I am not yet ready to put him in the same category as PK (though PK may yet continue to develop as a coach and improve).

To add to this I find it a mistake by Rado to appoint a player who operates in the shadows as captain. We also know what a nice guy he is and that’s also how he plays. At the moment the Rado dullness and niceness just radiates through the team and the captain appointment just doesn’t help.

Call me old fashioned but captains lead by exampe, fire up a team and front the battle - he’s not that type of player.

[NewConvert]

7 hours ago, Mr MO said:

To add to this I find it a mistake by Rado to appoint a player who operates in the shadows as captain. We also know what a nice guy he is and that’s also how he plays. At the moment the Rado dullness and niceness just radiates through the team and the captain appointment just doesn’t help.

Call me old fashioned but captains lead by exampe, fire up a team and front the battle - he’s not that type of player.

Son, as Spurs captain, is a nice bloke but he can certainly fire up the team. 

[jw1739]

3 hours ago, NewConvert said:

Son, as Spurs captain, is a nice bloke but he can certainly fire up the team. 

That's true, but just as I used Arsenal's Jesus as an example of a centre-forward drifting away from centre to draw the defence to one side, remember that we're talking about a club some 4-6 levels below EPL level. Different skills, different motivations, different rewards etc. IMO that's one of the reasons our local players going to Europe often struggle. Getting there has been their prime objective, whereas their team-mates are already there and aiming higher.

[Mr MO]

5 hours ago, NewConvert said:

Son, as Spurs captain, is a nice bloke but he can certainly fire up the team. 

He certainly does. Son doesn’t operate in the shadows though. Waiting for the perfect ball to finish. He gets a lot more involved in the game, wants the ball, can control it etc…

I guess it’s the personality and the type of player I’m referring too.

[Zanty]

15 hours ago, Mr MO said:

To add to this I find it a mistake by Rado to appoint a player who operates in the shadows as captain. We also know what a nice guy he is and that’s also how he plays. At the moment the Rado dullness and niceness just radiates through the team and the captain appointment just doesn’t help.

Call me old fashioned but captains lead by exampe, fire up a team and front the battle - he’s not that type of player.

I think Maclaren is more of a show by example captain, Has incredible work rates for the full 90 despite not always being involved in play, although I have seen Macca a few times shouting at players if they aren't up to scratch.

[jw1739]

IMO it's difficult to judge because we don't know the dynamics within the club - at any level. It does bother me a little that Van der Venne and Lam chose to end their contracts after one year only, and that so far this season the club the team hasn't clicked, but I don't think we are in a position to judge anything other than what we see on the pitch.

[Mr MO]

1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

IMO it's difficult to judge because we don't know the dynamics within the club - at any level. It does bother me a little that Van der Venne and Lam chose to end their contracts after one year only, and that so far this season the club the team hasn't clicked, but I don't think we are in a position to judge anything other than what we see on the pitch.

Yes I'm hence I'm forming my opinion on pure games watched.

That's propably where my opinion differs, shouting at people when your own game isn't fully there or when it doesn't catch on with the rest of the team is not ideal either.

In JMAC I see a player who works hard, is classified as a sniper and has an excellent scoring record in regular season games. But also has a high turn over rate in possession and a surprisingly low conversion ratio when you pay close attention over the years.

So when there is a pattern that in games that you seem to be invisible, being marked out and waiting for the perfect moment to then finally pounce (sniper) - is that how a captain has most influence on a team which craves a leader if that leadership doesn't come for the coach?

Maybe I'm just missing a little of c*ntness when we play, the only player so far who provides that is Leckie but he's injured, Reis had it but his legs can't keep up. Another option would have been Good as he can dictate the tempo by running in or going side ways. 

 

Edited September 30, 2023 by Mr MO

[Jeremy Martins]

To answer you guys, it’s hard to say whether PK had a choice when it gets to the recruitment this summer. At first glance, yes. Officially, it’s a different story! The issue we have in Troyes is that everything happening behind the scene is treated as “Top Secret”.. it’s very frustrating. Anyway, we have a good team on the paper! Same as last year! The obvious and visible part is that PK gets the worst out of them! He does not know how to play his talents. We have recruited a few talented guys, he never plays them, not even as jokers at the end of the game. He seriously has trouble to with subs.

Has anyone of you watched a Troyes game recently? Gosh it’s nightmarish and disgusting to watch!!! 

[MHFC-FAN]

9 hours ago, Jeremy Martins said:

To answer you guys, it’s hard to say whether PK had a choice when it gets to the recruitment this summer. At first glance, yes. Officially, it’s a different story! The issue we have in Troyes is that everything happening behind the scene is treated as “Top Secret”.. it’s very frustrating. Anyway, we have a good team on the paper! Same as last year! The obvious and visible part is that PK gets the worst out of them! He does not know how to play his talents. We have recruited a few talented guys, he never plays them, not even as jokers at the end of the game. He seriously has trouble to with subs.

Has anyone of you watched a Troyes game recently? Gosh it’s nightmarish and disgusting to watch!!! 

Sounds like the same issues we dealt with while he was coaching Melbourne City. Tactically inflexible, barely made any subs, players you thought would get time off the bench didn't come on. Although we were winning most games it was still frustrating with the issues above. It's very obvious that PK is well out of his depth in France...

[HughJass]

 

[jw1739]

It's very sad to read about what's happening with PK.

[Mr MO]

1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

It's very sad to read about what's happening with PK.

Yes, that’s some banners - can’t see a way back.

[MHFC-FAN]

4 hours ago, jw1739 said:

It's very sad to read about what's happening with PK.

Why? He's clearly not up to it, what else do you expect from the fans? 

This reaction was expected to be fair...

[belaguttman]

16 minutes ago, MHFC-FAN said:

Why? He's clearly not up to it, what else do you expect from the fans? 

This reaction was expected to be fair...

I think that he's quite a rigid coach, which is not a bad thing if you have a team to implement your style and tactics, and if the players buy into your methodology and the relationship. I think that the problem lies in that when the results aren't coming, the reaction is to try even harder, rather than to try differently.

[jw1739]

39 minutes ago, MHFC-FAN said:

Why? He's clearly not up to it, what else do you expect from the fans? 

This reaction was expected to be fair...

I don't think he's up to it either. But that does not conflict with my sympathy for him. He has Erick there as an advisor, and so my reading of it is that there is more to this behind the scenes than just PK. Just as I think that there's more to what's happening at Casey Fields than just Rado. Two of our players left without completing their contracts, this season's players don't look happy, and I'm uncomfortable with our walk out in Adelaide, which, whatever happened, sounds more like a sulk than there was a genuine threat to them. We too are being kept in the dark. Zero build-up to our ACL match in China this week. No squad information. No fitness news or Mat Leckie's injury update, no pics of the stadium or information on on Zhejiang, and so on. Incidentally they won this week 3-0 and are lying 3rd in the China Super League. 

[NewConvert]

17 hours ago, Jeremy Martins said:

To answer you guys, it’s hard to say whether PK had a choice when it gets to the recruitment this summer. At first glance, yes. Officially, it’s a different story! The issue we have in Troyes is that everything happening behind the scene is treated as “Top Secret”.. it’s very frustrating. Anyway, we have a good team on the paper! Same as last year! The obvious and visible part is that PK gets the worst out of them! He does not know how to play his talents. We have recruited a few talented guys, he never plays them, not even as jokers at the end of the game. He seriously has trouble to with subs.

Has anyone of you watched a Troyes game recently? Gosh it’s nightmarish and disgusting to watch!!! 

 

5 hours ago, jw1739 said:

It's very sad to read about what's happening with PK.

I have little sympathy for PK. Sympathy for the supporters but not PK. He will not be the first or last manager that will inherit a team and it is up to manager to make things click. Into his second season he has either been unable to get the message and game plan across, and because of the inflexibility means that he refuses to look in the mirror. It's called personal growth and the results tell me that he is unable to grow. What is worse neither will the players.

[Zanty]

Hopefully wherever PK goes next he learns what he did wrong at Troyes and adapt to make himself a better coach, I think people forget that this is still a young coach who will get things wrong

[KSK_47]

😕

 

Edited October 1, 2023 by KSK_47

[mjake1234]

14 hours ago, jw1739 said:

I don't think he's up to it either. But that does not conflict with my sympathy for him. He has Erick there as an advisor, and so my reading of it is that there is more to this behind the scenes than just PK. Just as I think that there's more to what's happening at Casey Fields than just Rado. Two of our players left without completing their contracts, this season's players don't look happy, and I'm uncomfortable with our walk out in Adelaide, which, whatever happened, sounds more like a sulk than there was a genuine threat to them. We too are being kept in the dark. Zero build-up to our ACL match in China this week. No squad information. No fitness news or Mat Leckie's injury update, no pics of the stadium or information on on Zhejiang, and so on. Incidentally they won this week 3-0 and are lying 3rd in the China Super League. 

You mean nothing's changed?

[Mr MO]

7 hours ago, mjake1234 said:

You mean nothing's changed?

What’s the constant factor you believe?

[jw1739]

2 hours ago, Mr MO said:

What’s the constant factor you believe?

I suggest that there's only one significant common factor, and that therefore possibly this discussion should continue in a different thread?

Edited October 2, 2023 by jw1739

[Zanty]

https://www.ftbl.com.au/news/kisnorbo-facing-axe-after-horror-run-in-france-600795

https://www.ftbl.com.au/news/kisnorbo-is-on-the-way-out-but-could-he-replace-muscat-at-yokohama-600791

[NewConvert]

11 hours ago, Zanty said:

https://www.ftbl.com.au/news/kisnorbo-facing-axe-after-horror-run-in-france-600795

https://www.ftbl.com.au/news/kisnorbo-is-on-the-way-out-but-could-he-replace-muscat-at-yokohama-600791

He may be more suited to Scottish football but let's face it, there is no evidence he is manager material.

[Mr MO]

4 hours ago, NewConvert said:

He may be more suited to Scottish football but let's face it, there is no evidence he is manager material.

People will still point to the achievements here at Melbourne City. Seen a fair bit of support in other social media channels to have him back. Some labelled PK as a proper coach.

 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Mr MO

[IssySG]

4 hours ago, NewConvert said:

He may be more suited to Scottish football but let's face it, there is no evidence he is manager material.

I think this is a bit revisionist. 

He literally won the Y League, W League and did the A League double. Also worked directly under a bunch of different Melbourne City coaches.

He's gone to France and had an absolute mare, but to say there is no evidence he is manager material is wild.

[Mr MO]

1 hour ago, IssySG said:

I think this is a bit revisionist. 

He literally won the Y League, W League and did the A League double. Also worked directly under a bunch of different Melbourne City coaches.

He's gone to France and had an absolute mare, but to say there is no evidence he is manager material is wild.

On the Y and W league, wasn’t that predominantly in assistant capacity?

A-League double for me will always be shadowed by the knowledge that the rest of league wasn’t up to scratch and it was on full Mombearts blue print. It’s been going less and less after that unfortunately.

But Zanty make a good comment he’s still relatively young, and he’s only seen one way of working. Perhaps he needs work under the wing of more experienced coach again.

[belaguttman]

He was sharing the W League coaching with Jess Fishlock in the year that they won the Premiership.

[NewConvert]

5 hours ago, IssySG said:

I think this is a bit revisionist. 

He literally won the Y League, W League and did the A League double. Also worked directly under a bunch of different Melbourne City coaches.

He's gone to France and had an absolute mare, but to say there is no evidence he is manager material is wild.

 

2 hours ago, belaguttman said:

He was sharing the W League coaching with Jess Fishlock in the year that they won the Premiership.

That is the reason why I remain unconvinced. He was part of a system where he inherited good teams. Even PK said that he spoke regularly with Mombaerts when he was coaching here. At Troyes he inherited a team and has been unable to put his imprint. Why?

[kingofhearts]

To be fair to Paddy, I don't think he's world beater coach but he's been completely sold a lemon here.

The guys taken over a sinking ship and has been expected to orchestrate a miracle and as a coach, he's just not able to do that yet. Yes, he does have deficiencies as a coach, many which have already been spoken about in this thread. However, CFG completely fucked him by sending him to a level of competition he just isn't ready for yet. They could've at least sent him with a mentor but no, CFG be like "all the best mate!" 

The best path as highlighted by ange and Muscat is to always work your way up through the lower leagues and learn all you can.Then, and only then, you should think about going to the big leagues.

[CityBoyz]

56 minutes ago, kingofhearts said:

To be fair to Paddy, I don't think he's world beater coach but he's been completely sold a lemon here.

The guys taken over a sinking ship and has been expected to orchestrate a miracle and as a coach, he's just not able to do that yet. Yes, he does have deficiencies as a coach, many which have already been spoken about in this thread. However, CFG completely fucked him by sending him to a level of competition he just isn't ready for yet. They could've at least sent him with a mentor but no, CFG be like "all the best mate!" 

The best path as highlighted by ange and Muscat is to always work your way up through the lower leagues and learn all you can.Then, and only then, you should think about going to the big leagues.

He did have Mombaerts as technical director 

[Le Hack]

Firstly let me preface this that I'm not a fan of Kisnorbo's coaching style of micro managing the game and barking orders out as though he's dealing with autonomyns and not humans. So had a look at his team sent out against St Etienne which used to be a giant of French soccer but also appears to have fallen on hard times. He's actually playing with a very young squad, GK is 26, CBs are 20 and 21, FBs 21 and 23, DMs 18 and 32, Wings & AM 19, 24, 21, Striker 20. Bench GK 20, LB 25, CB 33, AM 23, 33 RW 20. I'm not sure he's got his squad right, I wouldn't think Kisnorbo's coaching style is suitable for young players. Interesting Ilic the 24yo AM is on Man City's books but this is his fourth loan out. Chaverlein the 32yo is $4M transfermarkt from Reims, top rated with Alendar the sub GK from Caen, and Balde the RB from PSG. Anyway I think they may have stuffed the squad up as very few 23-30 yo

[belaguttman]

On 3/10/2023 at 3:26 PM, NewConvert said:

That is the reason why I remain unconvinced. He was part of a system where he inherited good teams. Even PK said that he spoke regularly with Mombaerts when he was coaching here. At Troyes he inherited a team and has been unable to put his imprint. Why?

The W League team results improved once Jess Fishlock joined the coaching team

[Jeremy Martins]

On 3/10/2023 at 6:55 AM, kingofhearts said:

To be fair to Paddy, I don't think he's world beater coach but he's been completely sold a lemon here.

The guys taken over a sinking ship and has been expected to orchestrate a miracle and as a coach, he's just not able to do that yet. Yes, he does have deficiencies as a coach, many which have already been spoken about in this thread. However, CFG completely fucked him by sending him to a level of competition he just isn't ready for yet. They could've at least sent him with a mentor but no, CFG be like "all the best mate!" 

The best path as highlighted by ange and Muscat is to always work your way up through the lower leagues and learn all you can.Then, and only then, you should think about going to the big leagues.

PK was not given a sinking ship! He was offered a hell of a phenomenal team with amazing players! When PK arrived, I can easily say that Troyes never had such a strong team in the last 20 years! The boat never was the problem, but the captain… and so he was! 

On 4/10/2023 at 1:43 AM, Le Hack said:

Firstly let me preface this that I'm not a fan of Kisnorbo's coaching style of micro managing the game and barking orders out as though he's dealing with autonomyns and not humans. So had a look at his team sent out against St Etienne which used to be a giant of French soccer but also appears to have fallen on hard times. He's actually playing with a very young squad, GK is 26, CBs are 20 and 21, FBs 21 and 23, DMs 18 and 32, Wings & AM 19, 24, 21, Striker 20. Bench GK 20, LB 25, CB 33, AM 23, 33 RW 20. I'm not sure he's got his squad right, I wouldn't think Kisnorbo's coaching style is suitable for young players. Interesting Ilic the 24yo AM is on Man City's books but this is his fourth loan out. Chaverlein the 32yo is $4M transfermarkt from Reims, top rated with Alendar the sub GK from Caen, and Balde the RB from PSG. Anyway I think they may have stuffed the squad up as very few 23-30 yo

I give you the fact that yes, we are playing with guys freshly out of kindergarten! That pisses us off because on the bench, you have recognised expérience guys! But hell no! PK does not give a crap and still will align the youngest! We surely don’t get it! We can’t understand him!

Yesterday, we got our first win in the last 10 games! Guess what, PK was not on the bench because he was sick. PK out, Troyes wins! I don’t believe this is a coincidence! This guy is a black cat, and until he is here, Troyes will keep sinking! 

Edited November 5, 2023 by Jeremy Martins

[MHFC-FAN]

16 minutes ago, Jeremy Martins said:

PK was not given a sinking ship! He was offered a hell of a phenomenal team with amazing players! When PK arrived, I can easily say that Troyes never had such a strong team in the last 20 years! The boat never was the problem, but the captain… and so he was! 

I give you the fact that yes, we are playing with guys freshly out of kindergarten! That pisses us off because on the bench, you have recognised expérience guys! But hell no! PK does not give a crap and still will align the youngest! We surely don’t get it! We can’t understand him!

Yesterday, we got our first win in the last 10 games! Guess what, PK was not on the bench because he was sick. PK out, Troyes wins! I don’t believe this is a coincidence! This guy is a black cat, and until he is here, Troyes will keep sinking! 

I understand he is out of his depth coach Troyes. I'm curious though, what do you believe are his shortfalls as a coach and why are Troyes struggling soo much?

Is it issues with formation? Starting 11 players and not using substitutes? Tactics during the games? No plan B?

[belaguttman]

56 minutes ago, Jeremy Martins said:

PK was not given a sinking ship! He was offered a hell of a phenomenal team with amazing players! When PK arrived, I can easily say that Troyes never had such a strong team in the last 20 years! The boat never was the problem, but the captain… and so he was! 

I'm not PK's greatest fan, but, to be fair, Troyes was in trouble and had gone through a number of coaches before he arrived. It may well have been a talented group of individuals but it wasn't a high-performing team

[Mr MO]

I’ve read somewhere that fans have boycotted going to games until he his gone, is this true?

@Jeremy Martins

[Jeremy Martins]

8 hours ago, MHFC-FAN said:

I understand he is out of his depth coach Troyes. I'm curious though, what do you believe are his shortfalls as a coach and why are Troyes struggling soo much?

Is it issues with formation? Starting 11 players and not using substitutes? Tactics during the games? No plan B?

Well to begin with, PK Is a shortfall! I’d like to feel for him only if he was recognising that he is a disastrous coach, resigning and going back to his loving family. PK is someone we feel would die for his principles. He would defend the most disgusting performances for the sake that players played according to his tactics. Have a look at his press conferences. Sometimes he makes us doubt whether the guy is not a droid as whatever he says he sees, no one else does! He had absolutely no tactic. Whenever there is a sub, whether we lose or we win, he changes nothing. A lateral would be subbed by a lateral. A center back subbed by a center back. Even if we feel the team can win he needs more attacking power, he would sometime replace the very best player of the day by a 18 years old guy that will bring no added value. 
what do bothering with him is that he is happy when the massive majority is pissed with what is going on!

[Jeremy Martins]

7 hours ago, belaguttman said:

I'm not PK's greatest fan, but, to be fair, Troyes was in trouble and had gone through a number of coaches before he arrived. It may well have been a talented group of individuals but it wasn't a high-performing team

Troyes was not in trouble! Troyes was recently champion of ligue 2 with Battles. He was replaced by Irles (a good friend of our local mummy EM) because he was not CFG compatible. Irles maintained Troyes in Ligue 1 and was fired by CFG because he was not player friendly and did not perform well for 5 games in a row. 
When PK took over, Troyes was 13th and the second best scorer team of ligue 1. 
PK on the bench, it’s 35 games, 2 victory… come on!!! I do not consider yesterdays win his as he was not on the bench barking nonsense to players! Without him, they won! Coincidence? Nope! 

7 hours ago, Mr MO said:

I’ve read somewhere that fans have boycotted going to games until he his gone, is this true?

@Jeremy Martins

That is correct. Yesterday was very visible! 3000 fans in a 20000 people stadium… 

[belaguttman]

I share your doubts about PK at this level, however, Irles was not doing well, so he was replaced.

[MHFC-FAN]

6 hours ago, Jeremy Martins said:

Well to begin with, PK Is a shortfall! I’d like to feel for him only if he was recognising that he is a disastrous coach, resigning and going back to his loving family. PK is someone we feel would die for his principles. He would defend the most disgusting performances for the sake that players played according to his tactics. Have a look at his press conferences. Sometimes he makes us doubt whether the guy is not a droid as whatever he says he sees, no one else does! He had absolutely no tactic. Whenever there is a sub, whether we lose or we win, he changes nothing. A lateral would be subbed by a lateral. A center back subbed by a center back. Even if we feel the team can win he needs more attacking power, he would sometime replace the very best player of the day by a 18 years old guy that will bring no added value. 
what do bothering with him is that he is happy when the massive majority is pissed with what is going on!

Yeah I'm not surprised to hear this as it seems obvious watching from abroad that PK is well out of his depth coaching Troyes! We faced similar issues with lack of tactics and obvious substitutions not being made. He was probably let off as the A-League is not as punishing league as League 1 or 2. Plus he had the best team in Melbourne Heart/Melbourne City history and they didn't need much "coaching"

I would be upset being a Troyes fan and having to put up with the lack of any positive results! Not surprised people are boycotting/not showing up any more...