The JvS thread

[KSK_47]

12^th is actually quite respectable for the EPL...La Liga & Bundesliga not so much...

 

I think the point he is trying to make is that if we are aiming to be a force in Asia then we need to raise our expectations a bit. Much in the same way that if an English club was to say they wanted to be one of the most successful clubs in Europe, they wouldnt/shouldnt be happy about coming 12th 

[Shahanga]

Agree with all that, but you know what, how about enjoying the journey too?

First time in finals for three years. Sweet.

[Parrot]

 

12^th is actually quite respectable for the EPL...La Liga & Bundesliga not so much...

 

I think the point he is trying to make is that if we are aiming to be a force in Asia then we need to raise our expectations a bit. Much in the same way that if an English club was to say they wanted to be one of the most successful clubs in Europe, they wouldnt/shouldnt be happy about coming 12th 

 

 

While the FFA imposes handicaps on A League clubs to PREVENT THEM BECOMING BIG AND POWERFUL CLUBS, handicaps

that are not imposed on Japanese, Chinese and Korean clubs, it is impossible for us to be a force in Asia. 

[KSK_47]

12^th is actually quite respectable for the EPL...La Liga & Bundesliga not so much...

 

I think the point he is trying to make is that if we are aiming to be a force in Asia then we need to raise our expectations a bit. Much in the same way that if an English club was to say they wanted to be one of the most successful clubs in Europe, they wouldnt/shouldnt be happy about coming 12th

 

While the FFA imposes handicaps on A League clubs to PREVENT THEM BECOMING BIG AND POWERFUL CLUBS, handicaps

that are not imposed on Japanese, Chinese and Korean clubs, it is impossible for us to be a force in Asia.

I wasn't the one who said they wanted to turn the club into an Asian powerhouse.

[Judge]

Lets Be a Force at Home,, before We even consider Asia, and remember WSW are champions of Asia.

[Red or Dead]

Let's finish on the top half of the table first...haven't done that yet either...

[n i k o]

Is that even a debatable? Without success at home you can't play in the ACL.

[Red or Dead]

Hold on a second, wait a minute, stop the fucking press; did JvS play a 4-4-2 formation today???

[KSK_47]

Hold on a second, wait a minute, stop the fucking press; did JvS play a 4-4-2 formation today???

 

[kingofhearts]

Hold on a second, wait a minute, stop the fucking press; did JvS play a 4-4-2 formation today???

And we still fucking drew.

[Red or Dead]

I mean, why wouldn't you change the formation in the third last game of the season?

[KSK_47]

I mean, why wouldn't you change the formation in the third last game of the season?

 

New dealer?

[heart_fan10]

i've been saying with the players we have we should be playing 4-4-2, and i thought it suited us today

[KSK_47]

i've been saying with the players we have we should be playing 4-4-2, and i thought it suited us today

Same. Great to see it at the final home game of the season

[strider]

Jurgen Klopp to coach City after announcing the end of his BVB reign.

[hakz7]

Jurgen Klopp to coach City after announcing the end of his BVB reign.

Then Pellegrini will come to Melbourne City.

Unless you meant Klopp to Melbourne.

[Jovan]

Did someone say Klopp to city!

We definitely ganna win the league.

[strider]

Even though Klopp looks like a child molester I'd love him here. One can dream 

[mjake1234]

Would be a great drawcard but I worry about how effective a big name coach will be managing players who don't have the skill level that he is used to.

[moops]

Just look at the Jets as an example for a moment, The club took a stance and backed Muggins, who by all accounts was getting blasted by media and fans alike. It was an unusual situation which Stubbins often said he had never experienced before, the players were pretty much playing badly to get him out.

Now look at the Jets after just a few months, they are a completely different team to earlier in the year and it shows Stubbins is no Muggins and the right choices were made.

That is the difference between JVS and a coach like Stubbins, where he worked on the worst (defence), built that base, now they are looking competitive in attack, all in a short time and new players!

You can see what he is trying to instil, nice diamonds for passing, pressing, I think they are my second team, but what a turn around!

What is JVS trying to do, I don't know?

[bellydrum]

Just look at the Jets as an example for a moment, The club took a stance and backed Muggins, who by all accounts was getting blasted by media and fans alike. It was an unusual situation which Stubbins often said he had never experienced before, the players were pretty much playing badly to get him out.

Now look at the Jets after just a few months, they are a completely different team to earlier in the year and it shows Stubbins is no Muggins and the right choices were made.

That is the difference between JVS and a coach like Stubbins, where he worked on the worst (defence), built that base, now they are looking competitive in attack, all in a short time and new players!

You can see what he is trying to instil, nice diamonds for passing, pressing, I think they are my second team, but what a turn around!

What is JVS trying to do, I don't know?

Hmmmmm yeah Stubbins doing great building that defensive base... Conceded 4 on Friday and 7 over the past 5 games. 

Didn't JVS work on our defence? Ah yeah he did. We conceded 1 goal the past 5 games.

 

I agree that Jets have been looking a lot better recently, but too little to late. Whereas we are in the finals and will have our best season yet, or equal it. While this isn't very difficult or an amazing achievement, don't you think it's a bit better than last place and Stubbins' 9% win rate as Jets coach?

[moops]

 

Just look at the Jets as an example for a moment, The club took a stance and backed Muggins, who by all accounts was getting blasted by media and fans alike. It was an unusual situation which Stubbins often said he had never experienced before, the players were pretty much playing badly to get him out.

Now look at the Jets after just a few months, they are a completely different team to earlier in the year and it shows Stubbins is no Muggins and the right choices were made.

That is the difference between JVS and a coach like Stubbins, where he worked on the worst (defence), built that base, now they are looking competitive in attack, all in a short time and new players!

You can see what he is trying to instil, nice diamonds for passing, pressing, I think they are my second team, but what a turn around!

What is JVS trying to do, I don't know?

Hmmmmm yeah Stubbins doing great building that defensive base... Conceded 4 on Friday and 7 over the past 5 games. 

Didn't JVS work on our defence? Ah yeah he did. We conceded 1 goal the past 5 games.

 

I agree that Jets have been looking a lot better recently, but too little to late. Whereas we are in the finals and will have our best season yet, or equal it. While this isn't very difficult or an amazing achievement, don't you think it's a bit better than last place and Stubbins' 9% win rate as Jets coach?

 

Look at things in context, Stubbins has had three months really (The team played against him, it is not the first time it has happened, especially if you followed the NSL) to make his team, look how they are playing and the process that has gone about to make them competitive, JVS has had a year and a half! 

[bellydrum]

3 months? He's been coach since May last year. What do you call the time between May last year and 3 months ago? 

The team started playing against him mid way through this season, because they weren't winning any games and had no faith in him.

It's not like the fired players were all rubbish either, look at how Jaliens has played for us. Griffiths was also decent at Wellington before he was injured.

 

Jets current resurgence means nothing, they are last and chances are they will stay there after next week.

Whether Stubbins can continue this resurgence will be decided next season. He's just tossed one season down the drain though.

 

Jets were 7th last year. Stubbin's Jets will have their worst season ever, unless they beat Roar (a draw will equal worst season 08-09).

We came 10th last year. We are now 6th, or 5th if you consider Perth. Is this not an improvement?

 

Say we look at form today - past 5 games

Jets - 6 points

Us - 11 points 

 

So where, apart from your view, can you say Stubbins' turn-around strategy is working better than JVS'?

Aloisi has a better win % than Stubbins at Jets.

Edited April 18, 2015 by bellydrum

[moops]

 

3 months? He's been coach since May last year. What do you call the time between May last year and 3 months ago? 

The team started playing against him mid way through this season, because they weren't winning any games and had no faith in him.

It's not like the fired players were all rubbish either, look at how Jaliens has played for us. Griffiths was also decent at Wellington before he was injured.

 

Jets current resurgence means nothing, they are last and chances are they will stay there after next week.

Whether Stubbins can continue this resurgence will be decided next season. He's just tossed one season down the drain though.

 

Jets were 7th last year. Stubbin's Jets will have their worst season since 08-09 (finished 8/8).

We came 10th last year. We are now 6th, or 5th if you consider Perth. Is this not an improvement?

 

Say we look at form today - past 5 games

Jets - 6 points

Us - 11 points 

 

So where, apart from your view, can you say Stubbins' turn-around strategy is working better than JVS'?

Aloisi has a better win % than Stubbins.

 

mate the key word is context, stats are a very cold way at looking at things,

[belaguttman]

No one could doubt that we have improved, during the dark days of the Aloisi devolution we would have loved to have won or drawn games despite playing poor uninspiring football. We should however have some ambition and not be content to win playing poor beige uninspiring football.

The team performance has improved since last season, that is undeniable but has it improved despite pr because of JVS - that is debatable.

I would like to hear from anyone who truly believes that he is the coach who can win us a Premiership.

[moops]

No one could doubt that we have improved, during the dark days of the Aloisi devolution we would have loved to have won or drawn games despite playing poor uninspiring football. We should however have some ambition and not be content to win playing poor beige uninspiring football.

The team performance has improved since last season, that is undeniable but has it improved despite pr because of JVS - that is debatable.

I would like to hear from anyone who truly believes that he is the coach who can win us a Premiership.

I think we have improved by individual talent yes, but the way we play is as uninspiring as always

[bellydrum]

I won't continue moops, as neither of us will budge .

 

I'm not 100% for JVS, but am currently erring on the 'give him another season' side. Some decent performances next few games and/or finals will tip me.

I think JVS, the players, and the club in general have improved greatly since the start of the season. Still a lot of work to be done however.

 

 

I would like to hear from anyone who truly believes that he is the coach who can win us a Premiership.

While I don't believe it this season, we're moving in the right direction, albeit a bit slower than first expected. CFG hysteria got the better of most of us I think.

JVS is certainly far from this year's star coach, but he is definitely with the best company (CFG) to become a league winning coach.

I've seen improvement over the season, and so would probably like to see another one with him.

Edited April 18, 2015 by bellydrum

[moops]

I won't continue moops, as neither of us will budge .

 

I'm not 100% for JVS, but am currently erring on the 'give him another season' side. Some decent performances next few games and/or finals will tip me.

I think JVS, the players, and the club in general have improved greatly since the start of the season. Still a lot of work to be done however.

 

 

I would like to hear from anyone who truly believes that he is the coach who can win us a Premiership.

While I don't believe it this season, we're moving in the right direction, albeit a bit slower than first expected. CFG hysteria got the better of most of us I think.

JVS is certainly far from this year's star coach, but he is definitely with the best company (CFG) to become a league winning coach.

I've seen improvement over the season, and so would probably like to see another one with him.

No NO, you seem to have the wrong idea, I will budge, I just need good reasoning.

[NewConvert]

In terms of context, JVS has also changed the side through the season, specifically the defence. These days we have Velaphi, Jaliens, Safuwan, Clisby and Retre playing in defence with only Kisnorbo being the only constant throughout the season. Only Wieleart was a forced change due to injury - the others such as Ramsay who got dropped and now plays off the bench up forward; Hoffman has been dropped altogether; Redmayne is now the #2 keeper. With hindsight, JVS gave too many opportunities to the Redmayne and Retre was a bit slow too take up his opportunities but lately has been making a good fist of it. Garrucio also had his opportunities and was adapting until he got injured. And to give credit to JVS and the club when players like Jaliens and Clisby became available they pounced. Also I presume that CFG should also be credited with the signing, albeit temporary, of Safuwan. The only player that got the WSW treatment was Kalmar and now, perhaps, Hoffman. And the club did all of these changes without creating the negative headlines that have followed the Jets or WSW.

The biggest disappointment for me has been Koren and I am not sure whether JVS or CFG can be blamed for his under performance. Most of this seasons new recruits have been good with the only other meh being James Brown who has been injured for most of the season and apart from that goal has had an ordinary time on the pitch. And there is plenty to learn from the Villa fiasco and that can't be blamed on JVS.

 

Not forgetting Novillo who came in as an injury replacement, I am warming to him but he does have defects in his game. And as far as Josh Kennedy is concerned, I believe that he is delivering. In some other thread somebody stated that he did not touch the ball more than six times but after re-watching the game he had had eight touches by the ten minute mark. Some people are looking for all his failures and not watching the game. I would rather that he be fitter but there is not much left of this season, so I would expect the club and Kennedy to ensure that he is fit for next season.

 

Of the re-signings Williams has been off the boil but is OK off the bench. Hoffman well that was an error.

 

Earlier on the thread there was deep discussion as to whether the team had the players, specially early on the season when things were awful or whether it was JVS. Given that with new players in defence the argument that the team lacked the players has strengthened but at the same time I am not convinced that JVS is the coach to take the team to next level.

 

So far, this season I have gone from being satisfied with his appointment, to being disappointed and wanting him out to right now being on the fence. I certainly would not rush out to sack him unless I had in the wings somebody who would almost guarantee the club silverware next season. And then there is the matter that there are nine players out of contract in a few weeks time and whether the recruiters can spot gems like Mooy, Melling and Safuwan.

[KSK_47]

 

 

So far, this season I have gone from being satisfied with his appointment, to being disappointed and wanting him out to right now being on the fence. 

 

A perfect overall summary of JVS, not just this season but for the three (and a bit) seasons he has been coach. Sometimes shit, sometimes pretty good, mostly average, never great.

[belaguttman]

 

 

 

So far, this season I have gone from being satisfied with his appointment, to being disappointed and wanting him out to right now being on the fence. 

 

A perfect overall summary of JVS, not just this season but for the three (and a bit) seasons he has been coach. Sometimes shit, sometimes pretty good, mostly average, never great.

 

...and that's why I think that we can't win a Premiership with him, nor then make an impact in the ACL

[KSK_47]

 

 

 

 

So far, this season I have gone from being satisfied with his appointment, to being disappointed and wanting him out to right now being on the fence. 

 

A perfect overall summary of JVS, not just this season but for the three (and a bit) seasons he has been coach. Sometimes shit, sometimes pretty good, mostly average, never great.

 

...and that's why I think that we can't win a Premiership with him, nor then make an impact in the ACL

 

 

Absolutely. I cant believe I am still having to say this but if we are importing coaches they have to bring something more to the table than average and boring

[belaguttman]

We need a coach with:

a clear vision that is compatible with the football style that is expected for the team

the tactical flexibility to impose that style in a variety of home and away scenarios

the ability to clearly describe that style and unite the playing group around that vision

good man management skills who is able to work with players individually and with the group

 

I don't think that JVS has scored more than a D- in any of those criteria

[Tonyboozeadams]

I think it is pretty obvious in this league, that if you get your signings right you can breeze into the top 4. Victory with Muscat and Lowe with Perth (we'll just ignore the salary cap thing for now) are examples of this. Both pretty crap coaches but made great signings. 

 

There are examples of good coaching and getting the tactics right (Roar with Ange, Adelaide with Gombau).

 

My point is JVS got the signings wrong. I think he has done fairly well to get these spuds into 5th. But the buck stops with him

[NewConvert]

We need a coach with:

a clear vision that is compatible with the football style that is expected for the team

the tactical flexibility to impose that style in a variety of home and away scenarios

the ability to clearly describe that style and unite the playing group around that vision

good man management skills who is able to work with players individually and with the group

 

I don't think that JVS has scored more than a D- in any of those criteria

 

How can you judge this?

For me the one criteria that has me doubting JVS is the lack of skills players have. Comparing AU when Gombau took over and today, the clear difference is that players have better skills with the ball - better first touch, better passing, etc. Now some of this is a legacy issue in terms that some of these skills should have been learnt in their teen age years but the same problem faced Gombau and he has remedied their defects.

 

I am sure that for the listed criteria JVS can deliver most of them at a reasonable level. Otherwise he would not have been able to get the job in the first place. And I certainly haven't read anywhere that he can't communicate.

[belaguttman]

It's the coach's job to recruit/teach the required skills in order to imminent the style and tactics of the team

[jw1739]

TBH my gut feeling is that van 't Schip will be our Head Coach at the start of next season. CFG don't seem to be in any hurry to make any dramatic decisions, and my guess is that coming 6th (ignoring the Perth demotion) will be regarded as a pass mark for this season, given that he did have a number of legacy players to deal with.

 

This off-season as far as I can see he only has one legacy player not of his own making who has a contract for next season - Redmayne. He also cannot again use the excuse that the "CFG scouting network didn't know the kind of players needed for the A-League" - a lame excuse, but one that he got away with at the time. So he has the resources to get the best squad together that he can within the cap limitations.

 

So I think he'll be retained, but will be expected to lead City further up the ladder for next season, at least to a comfortable top four finish. I doubt that anything lower than that will be acceptable to the CFG hierarchy.

[KSK_47]

TBH my gut feeling is that van 't Schip will be our Head Coach at the start of next season. CFG don't seem to be in any hurry to make any dramatic decisions, and my guess is that coming 6th (ignoring the Perth demotion) will be regarded as a pass mark for this season, given that he did have a number of legacy players to deal with.

 

This off-season as far as I can see he only has one legacy player not of his own making who has a contract for next season - Redmayne. He also cannot again use the excuse that the "CFG scouting network didn't know the kind of players needed for the A-League" - a lame excuse, but one that he got away with at the time. So he has the resources to get the best squad together that he can within the cap limitations.

 

So I think he'll be retained, but will be expected to lead City further up the ladder for next season, at least to a comfortable top four finish. I doubt that anything lower than that will be acceptable to the CFG hierarchy.

 

I think you are right JW, I have a feeling he will still be around next season but thankfully as you have bought up he has exhausted all excuses (including the ones that didnt make sense). Hopefully after this season City can see that people in Melbourne are interested in soccer, but they are not idiots and wont put up with rubbish.

 

So, I will prematurely kick off our 6th season saying the same thing a lot of us have said for the past 5 seasons. No excuses.

[n i k o]

TBH my gut feeling is that van 't Schip will be our Head Coach at the start of next season. CFG don't seem to be in any hurry to make any dramatic decisions, and my guess is that coming 6th (ignoring the Perth demotion) will be regarded as a pass mark for this season, given that he did have a number of legacy players to deal with.

 

This off-season as far as I can see he only has one legacy player not of his own making who has a contract for next season - Redmayne. He also cannot again use the excuse that the "CFG scouting network didn't know the kind of players needed for the A-League" - a lame excuse, but one that he got away with at the time. So he has the resources to get the best squad together that he can within the cap limitations.

 

So I think he'll be retained, but will be expected to lead City further up the ladder for next season, at least to a comfortable top four finish. I doubt that anything lower than that will be acceptable to the CFG hierarchy.

 

I think you are right JW, I have a feeling he will still be around next season but thankfully as you have bought up he has exhausted all excuses (including the ones that didnt make sense). Hopefully after this season City can see that people in Melbourne are interested in soccer, but they are not idiots and wont put up with rubbish.

 

So, I will prematurely kick off our 6th season saying the same thing a lot of us have said for the past 5 seasons. No excuses.

Yeah but the possibility of injuries. Oh won't someone please think of the potential for injuries.

[Dylan]

I have always hoped that since the take over they will make a statement not with players but with the coaching and the academy. So I am still hoping for JVS being removed and for us to get a manager who its going to take the standard of coaching in the league a lot further ahead than what we have now.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Dylan