Tony999 Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 3 hours ago, jw1739 said: I don't see that the JvS fundamentals have really changed. As in the Sydney match, last night we were over-run for most of the game, and our boys were physically done after 25 minutes. Somehow we have stolen four points when the return could so easily have been zero. Last night JvS was up to his usual tricks. A non-existent right flank. Both Retre and Hughes are short on pace, and I don't recall seeing much of a RW at all until Williams came on, and he was almost invisible. After Millar and Eyigun started last week both disappear completely and out of his lucky bag he produces Dekker and Williams on the bench! I don't think you can win silverware with this continual chopping and changing. His positive was that he finally had the balls to drop Robi Koren. Poppa did it in the season when they won premiership and the Asian Champions league Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 A coach can mitigate all the changes by clearly communicating the role to each player so that they understand the game plan, the structure and their role in it. The coaching team seems to have improved in this area this season 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
possiblygeorge Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 (edited) If JVS lands this bloke this transfer season or next, all will be forgiven. EDIT: i take that back. Fuck Nichols. Prick of an interview on fox post game. Edited January 10, 2016 by possiblygeorge 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedaik Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Good to see him revving the crowd up at ~85 mins. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 56 minutes ago, belaguttman said: A coach can mitigate all the changes by clearly communicating the role to each player so that they understand the game plan, the structure and their role in it. The coaching team seems to have improved in this area this season Agree 100%. A good coach can change line ups and see exactly the same result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InMyHeart Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 Why is he sitting down like he doesnt care. GET OFF THE SEAT STAND UP AND DEMAND A lift in tempo FFS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrillhouse Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 fucking disaster, chance to jump to 2nd against against a very weak team and fuck it up after leading twice and having an extra man for a while Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannon Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 jvs logic: aww we have an extra man i think ill go with a back four now, get fucked you dutch cunt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulhollanddrive Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 That'd have to be at least 9 points dropped from games where we lead in the 2nd half. Can JVS coach defense? Without Sorensen we'd probably be in our usual mediocre position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHFC-FAN Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 5 hours ago, mulhollanddrive said: That'd have to be at least 9 points dropped from games where we lead in the 2nd half. Can JVS coach defense? Without Sorensen we'd probably be in our usual mediocre position. The season (at least challenging for the premiers plate) all depends on how we strengthen the defense. Which has always been our Achilles heel since JVS has been coaching... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 7 hours ago, mulhollanddrive said: Can JVS coach defense? No. IMO it's his biggest weakness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murfy1 Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) 4 hours ago, Shahanga said: No. IMO it's his biggest weakness. Hard to disagree ATM. I said it earlier this season, he seems to show a lack of respect, or at least a disregard, for defending. And I haven't seen any reason since to change that negative assessment. The other annoying thing is JVS made an accurate summary of Melbourne City's tactical mistakes post-game: Quote "We could have been more dangerous if we went with more numbers around Aaron, Bruno and Harry," Van't Schip said. "Especially in the second half there were moments when we weren't in position yet and our wing backs weren't high enough. "They were too deep and we played too direct. "Aaron, Harry and Bruno were up against five or six Perth players. We should have played more patient in the build up to get more players around them first. "There were a few times we could have done better in not playing that first ball too quickly." Not enough width. Not enough players supporting our big 3 in attack, and the team lumped the ball forward too often to Mooy, Fornaroli and Novillo and expected them to make goals on their own. All correct. But the annoying thing is that JVS failed to fix these tactical issues in the game (except for maybe the few minutes at the start of the second half in the lead up to Mooy's goal). JVS needs to get the tactics right more consistently in-game, rather than merely accurately summarising how wrong our tactics were post-game. Edited January 17, 2016 by Murfy1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Le Cube Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 I read on here ages ago that during training JVS spent more time with the forwards and Trani was the coach who worked more with the defence. Does anybody know exactly what Trani and Jolic are responsible for on matchdays? Do they work as line coaches? Or do they do most of their work during the week? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 So for one game we play a 3-5-2 system which changed that particular game for us. But now JVS has decided to continue playing that system, for what reason though? I question JVS for what seems to be a knee jerk reaction to something that circumstantially worked in one game against a particular opponent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Murfy1 said: Hard to disagree ATM. I said it earlier this season, he seems to show a lack of respect, or at least a disregard, for defending. And I haven't seen any reason since to change that negative assessment. The other annoying thing is JVS made an accurate summary of Melbourne City's tactical mistakes post-game: Not enough width. Not enough players supporting our big 3 in attack, and the team lumped the ball forward too often to Mooy, Fornaroli and Novillo and expected them to make goals on their own. All correct. But the annoying thing is that JVS failed to fix these tactical issues in the game (except for maybe the few minutes at the start of the second half in the lead up to Mooy's goal). JVS needs to get the tactics right more consistently in-game, rather than merely accurately summarising how wrong our tactics were post-game. What I don't understand about that is JVS mark I was winning games due to his tactical astuteness. In this game, I could see by about the 35 minute mark that the defenders were taking advantage of our narrow attack (Novillo and Tuna were to close together and they could cluster to deal with them) and we needed to change, yet It wasn't until the 70+ minute that this was addressed, even though when Perth went to 10 men, this situation was even more so (11 vs 10 "101" is that you spread the play), so it was terrible tactics to do nothing. So what has happened to JVS Mark I? Edited January 17, 2016 by Shahanga Bit more info on 11 v 10 for all the younguns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSK_47 Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 11 minutes ago, Shahanga said: What I don't understand about that is JVS mark I was winning games due to his tactical astuteness. 10-11 season W-8, D- 11, L-11 11-12 season W-9, D-10, L-8 Was he though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 2 minutes ago, KSK_47 said: 10-11 season W-8, D- 11, L-11 11-12 season W-9, D-10, L-8 Was he though? Of course he was. Winning particular games. There was a classic one over Sydney that comes to mind and of course his astute adjustment in the Matt Thompson Christmas Derby, that completely changed the game. I never said he was w"winning trophies" That to me is his other big weakness- can't grind out the wins that trophy winners need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSK_47 Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 3 minutes ago, Shahanga said: Of course he was. Winning particular games. Yes he won a handful of games because of his tactics but to say he was "winning games due to his tactical astuteness" is quite a stretch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 In fairness though, and I'm one of his critics, he's not on the field. For example, this conceding in the dying stages of a half - surely that's a captain's responsibility to get his troops focussed and concentrating - JvS can't do everything? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewConvert Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 10 minutes ago, KSK_47 said: Yes he won a handful of games because of his tactics but to say he was "winning games due to his tactical astuteness" is quite a stretch The frustrating thing is that he can be tactically astute. Right after he took over from JA he chopped and changed and won some games. He wasn't rigid. When he changed to a 3-5-2 that also showed that he could change the tactics and then he becomes rigid. Now I am not suggesting that he needs to do that every week but when things are not working, he needs to change during the game (as Murfy noted). He needs to know the opposition well enough to be able to change the tactics as the game progresses. Yet he does not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSK_47 Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 2 minutes ago, jw1739 said: In fairness though, and I'm one of his critics, he's not on the field. For example, this conceding in the dying stages of a half - surely that's a captain's responsibility to get his troops focussed and concentrating - JvS can't do everything? Had these peoblems not been an ongoing issue with every team he coaches, I would agree But I have made my thoughts on JVS quite clear so I wont spend any more time going over it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murfy1 Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 1 hour ago, Shahanga said: What I don't understand about that is JVS mark I was winning games due to his tactical astuteness. In this game, I could see by about the 35 minute mark that the defenders were taking advantage of our narrow attack (Novillo and Tuna were to close together and they could cluster to deal with them) and we needed to change, yet It wasn't until the 70+ minute that this was addressed, even though when Perth went to 10 men, this situation was even more so (11 vs 10 "101" is that you spread the play), so it was terrible tactics to do nothing. So what has happened to JVS Mark I? I fully agree that there was a JVS Mark I (great name BTW), that won some significant games due to his tactics or tactical changes. Some very noteworthy wins include our 3-2 Christmas derby win in 2011, where we started with a 3-4-3 and trailed 1-0 after 30 minutes and then went to 4-3-3 and stormed back into the game and went up 3-1 (only to have victory score a face-saving free kick in injury time to make it 3-2) (match report), and our first win after the Aloisi inspired horror-show season of 2013-14, where JVS changed the team's formation to a 4-4-2 diamond and secured a big 4-0 win at AAMI against the Jets in January 2014 (report here). I'm not exactly sure what's happening with JVS Mark II. I get the sense that JVS (Mark II) believes that with a strong squad Melbourne City should be able to play the same formation and the same tactics week after week, and control football matches and play matches on our terms. It could be argued that this has sort of worked, with our strong winning run earlier in the season with the team playing the same formation (4-3-3) and the same tactics. However I also get the sense that JVS is trying to cultivate a clear football brand, and this might be because CFG is dictating that Melbourne City play a recognisable "brand" of football that doesn't allow the team to change its tactics significantly from week to week. It could be argued that if the team fixed the defence, then our football would be pretty near perfect (easily the top scorers, with some style, and then also getting the business done at the other end of the park). I guess JVS has the chance over the remaining half season to try and improve the defence, and then maybe his attempts to play a uniform style (attacking possession based 4-3-3) will be vindicated. I guess we'll see. As for last night, I'm not sure what exactly to chalk that up to. Perhaps it was the main characteristic of JVS Mark II, which pursues a stability/uniformity with tactics. Perhaps it was the hot weather, long travel, or 3 hour time difference. Perhaps Perth deserve a little credit (they did clock up an impressive number of tackles and interceptions). Or perhaps a few players had an off night (which Mooy might have hinted at in an interview today). Or a mix of all the above. Anyway at the end of the season JVS must take full responsibility for the team's performances over the whole season, and he can be definitively judged then. And after this season in particular there will be a very definitive picture of JVS' coaching by then. And then we'll know for sure whether JVS was too rigid or too flexible with his coaching, and what he can do well and what he can achieve and what he can't. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexxxandro Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 15 hours ago, jw1739 said: In fairness though, and I'm one of his critics, he's not on the field. For example, this conceding in the dying stages of a half - surely that's a captain's responsibility to get his troops focussed and concentrating - JvS can't do everything? More to the point is the players can't do everything so the coach is the number one thing to get right because he sets up the team, motivates it and makes the right tactical decisions during the game if he's any good. If the coaching is not spot on then everything else will crumble. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadete Posted January 18, 2016 Report Share Posted January 18, 2016 I think what annoys me most about JVS is his inability to motivate the squad as a whole… and connect to his players for longer periods of time. Every season he has coached I concede there has always been a select few players who he has clearly connected with and been able to motivate into becoming better players, usually younger players like the obvious example of Behich. However on the flipside there are always seems to be as many players who he pushes to the fringes and turn into shadows of their former selves. The thing that is most frustrating is how on a number of occasions a few of these disillusioned players were literally once those who were part of the group who JVS clearly had motivated at an earlier point in their career. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonyboozeadams Posted January 18, 2016 Report Share Posted January 18, 2016 On 16 January 2016 at 11:25 PM, InMyHeart said: Why is he sitting down like he doesnt care. GET OFF THE SEAT STAND UP AND DEMAND A lift in tempo FFS http://www.football365.com/news/sit-down-stand-up-does-it-actually-matter 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playmaker Posted January 19, 2016 Report Share Posted January 19, 2016 I wish musctard got 20 000 Volts every time he opened his mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strider Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 ... So what's the deal guys? Do we suddenly have faith in the tanned messiah? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisphantomfortress Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 2 minutes ago, strider said: ... So what's the deal guys? Do we suddenly have faith in the tanned messiah? We're winning inspite of him not because of him. Also cutting some slack for pushing Koren out the door Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSK_47 Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 10 minutes ago, strider said: ... So what's the deal guys? Do we suddenly have faith in the tanned messiah? No. His track record speaks for itself. Its only taken one the best squads in A leauge history and resources far beyond the wildest dreams of most hal clubs for him to finally start getting results. And we still have yet to finish a round top of the table. Ever. I have said it from the get go if we are winning then i have no problem with him being in charge. But i still maintain he is an average coach. Give virtually any of the managers in the leauge the squad and resources we have and they will be competitive. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofhearts Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 He'll be swooped on by a serie a or EPL team at the end of the season just you watch. Maybe even the new national coach, he's clearly an upgrade over ange Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombegongal Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 5 hours ago, KSK_47 said: No. His track record speaks for itself. Its only taken one the best squads in A leauge history and resources far beyond the wildest dreams of most hal clubs for him to finally start getting results. And we still have yet to finish a round top of the table. Ever. I have said it from the get go if we are winning then i have no problem with him being in charge. But i still maintain he is an average coach. Give virtually any of the managers in the leauge the squad and resources we have and they will be competitive. Except Frank Farina that guy is a hack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CityHeart Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 Not sure if anyone followed, but on SEN breakfast yesterday Leach had info that an a-league 'contending' club's coach was selling himself to potential clubs for next season. Everyone seemingly assumed Musc**t, and yesterday Robson denied this blah blah. This morning Leach went on to say it wasnt a guess etc, heard it from the horses mouth from another club and it wasnt Musc**t. Now, the first thing which came to my mind yesterday was JVS. Regardless of finishing position, I feel he would have the lowest job security of anyone I reckon and he knows it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bt50 Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 36 minutes ago, CityHeart said: Not sure if anyone followed, but on SEN breakfast yesterday Leach had info that an a-league 'contending' club's coach was selling himself to potential clubs for next season. Everyone seemingly assumed Musc**t, and yesterday Robson denied this blah blah. This morning Leach went on to say it wasnt a guess etc, heard it from the horses mouth from another club and it wasnt Musc**t. Now, the first thing which came to my mind yesterday was JVS. Regardless of finishing position, I feel he would have the lowest job security of anyone I reckon and he knows it. Nah. He specifically mentioned he was a coach that had had success, which really narrowed it down to Muscat, Popa or Arnie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CityHeart Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 hmm if he said successful must have missed it, and yep really narrows it. Can only be Popa or Arnie then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 Gombau in next season. Only thing stopping that is JVS winning the championship. It's very similar to the man city situation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japiedog Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 32 minutes ago, bt50 said: Nah. He specifically mentioned he was a coach that had had success, which really narrowed it down to Muscat, Popa or Arnie. or Merrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bt50 Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 He did say they were in contention, probably ruling Merrick out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haz Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 Sounds like Merrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF33 Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, CityHeart said: Not sure if anyone followed, but on SEN breakfast yesterday Leach had info that an a-league 'contending' club's coach was selling himself to potential clubs for next season. Everyone seemingly assumed Musc**t, and yesterday Robson denied this blah blah. This morning Leach went on to say it wasnt a guess etc, heard it from the horses mouth from another club and it wasnt Musc**t. Now, the first thing which came to my mind yesterday was JVS. Regardless of finishing position, I feel he would have the lowest job security of anyone I reckon and he knows it. I doubt it. At the end of the day, the coaches' security is inextricably linked to his side's ability to win games. And, as far as I'm concerned, even minus one visa player, JVS has the strongest squad in the league, by far. I could see a couple of coaches being told to clean out their desks before the end of the season. That won't happen with JVS, unless there is some extraordinary form slump. Edited January 27, 2016 by SF33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japiedog Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 1 hour ago, bt50 said: He did say they were in contention, probably ruling Merrick out. I thought you said a coach that had had success ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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