Robert Koren (confirmed by club as released)

[Tony999]

Can thank CFG for giving us a life line. We wouldn't even have wheelie bins as ice baths as we would've folded by now.

[Murfy1]

IMO that's not a strong argument about expenditure Murf. This current financial year CFG have spent some A$15m capital on CFA Melbourne. Of course I don't know the figures, but I doubt that they have spent A$150m capital on facilities in New York. I don't think it's reasonable to expect itemised expenditures (capital and operating) to be in the ratio 1:10 on every item in the accounts.

I'm sure that CFG watch what happens at Melbourne City pretty closely - perhaps not as closely as we do, but they will be getting the messages that we see on here and in the local media about Villa, Koren, and the other things that irritate us, and in line with their philosophy of continual improvement they will expect better in the future both from their own management and from those at CFA Melbourne including players.

 

CFG are planning on building a whole new stadium and a whole new training facility in New York, so they are planning on spending a lot more than the $15 or so million spent on Melbourne City's training ground. Hence I get the argument that "CFG spent 100 million on NYCFC and 10 million on Melbourne", and adjust their priorities accordingly. And going off the evidence I've seen, I don't think that argument is far off the mark. 

 

And the point I was making was that it would be good if CFG spent at least a 10th of the money they spent on NYCFC on Melbourne City. Not that they should spend at a 10 to 1 ratio on us. Of course, ideally I think they should spend more. They should spend enough to make the club successful IMO. And in particular their marquee spending policy has disappointed me, and makes me think that they aren't being as serious as they could be with trying to make Melbourne City successful.

 

I don't care how closely CFG watch Melbourne City. I don't care what they know. I only judge CFG by what they do. Let them put their money where their mouth is, as they say. Stop talking about expecting progress and improvement (things Sidwell and co said for 4 seasons as well, of course) and actively work to bring about progress and improvement. 

 

 

Anyway I'm tired of speculating about what CFG should do, and will wait to see what they actually do. Hopefully their next moves for Melbourne City don't underwhelm (like the Gold Coast friendly).

Edited June 25, 2015 by Murfy1

[moops]

nice

[Tony999]

IMO that's not a strong argument about expenditure Murf. This current financial year CFG have spent some A$15m capital on CFA Melbourne. Of course I don't know the figures, but I doubt that they have spent A$150m capital on facilities in New York. I don't think it's reasonable to expect itemised expenditures (capital and operating) to be in the ratio 1:10 on every item in the accounts.

I'm sure that CFG watch what happens at Melbourne City pretty closely - perhaps not as closely as we do, but they will be getting the messages that we see on here and in the local media about Villa, Koren, and the other things that irritate us, and in line with their philosophy of continual improvement they will expect better in the future both from their own management and from those at CFA Melbourne including players.

 

CFG are planning on building a whole new stadium and a whole new training facility in New York, so they are planning on spending a lot more than the $15 or so million spent on Melbourne City's training ground. Hence I get the argument that "CFG spent 100 million on NYCFC and 10 million on Melbourne", and adjust their priorities accordingly. And going off the evidence I've seen, I don't think that argument is far off the mark. 

 

And the point I was making was that it would be good if CFG spent at least a 10th of the money they spent on NYCFC on Melbourne City. Not that they should spend at a 10 to 1 ratio on us. Of course, ideally I think they should spend more. They should spend enough to make the club successful IMO. And in particular their marquee spending policy has disappointed me, and makes me think that they aren't being as serious as they could be with trying to make Melbourne City successful.

 

I don't care how closely CFG watch Melbourne City. I don't care what they know. I only judge CFG by what they do. Let them put their money where their mouth is, as they say. Stop talking about expecting progress and improvement (things Sidwell and co said for 4 seasons as well, of course) and actively work to bring about progress and improvement. 

 

 

Anyway I'm tired of speculating about what CFG should do, and will wait to see what they actually do. Hopefully their next moves for Melbourne City don't underwhelm (like the Gold Coast friendly).

Why would you expect anything more? I mean America is America so obviously compared to Australia their focus would be more on NYCFC. Don't follow the MLS but judging by what people are saying that NYCFC are doing pretty shit so that's another reason CFG need to turn their attention to NYCFC. Someone has to be last in the pecking order and unfortunately it's us. Wow, big deal. Show me some performances and silverware and l wouldn't even care if CFG don't even mention us in a YouTube clip.

Edited June 25, 2015 by Tony999

[kingofhearts]

An idea to solving the Koren delima:

 

[Tesla]

who clearly couldnt care less and complaining to the press that we arnt using him right as some kind of excuse for not putting in effort.

And no blame is put on the manager who plays every player out of position, and then everyone wonders why players come here with a good reputation and then turn to shit immediately?

[n i k o]

who clearly couldnt care less and complaining to the press that we arnt using him right as some kind of excuse for not putting in effort.

And no blame is put on the manager who plays every player out of position, and then everyone wonders why players come here with a good reputation and then turn to shit immediately?

Is that close to being remotely accurate though? Koren was played out of position but were many other? Kinsorbo, Chapman, Clisby, Jaliens, Germano, Mooy, Melling, Paartalu, Kennedy, Marino all played their natural positions. Germano, and even Safuwan though we're used to plug the left back position as Clisby was well short of being s reliable left back. There's probably an arguement that Duff and Novillo were not in their natural positions but both have played on both wings through their careers. Same with Villa, who is currently playing left wing for NY. 

Edited June 25, 2015 by n i k o

[Tesla]

Koren is not going to have a better season, because he does not want to be here.

Poor bloke just wanted to come here, live in the best city in the world, be the king of the A-League, and make a few $ while doing so.

Now he spends the best part of 2-3 minutes every morning right after waking up considering whether he should just end it now, but then remembers he has a family and decides to stick it out for their sake.

He then proceeds to go to training and can't stop thinking "why the fuck am I playing for this moron?" the whole time. He isn't some 18yo kid that has no clue, he has played at big clubs under good managers and realises how hopeless JVS is. He can't believe he fucked up so badly deciding to sign for a team managed by a bloke who would get Celtic relegated from the SPL.

[Tesla]

who clearly couldnt care less and complaining to the press that we arnt using him right as some kind of excuse for not putting in effort.

And no blame is put on the manager who plays every player out of position, and then everyone wonders why players come here with a good reputation and then turn to shit immediately?

Is that close to being remotely accurate though? Koren was played out of position but were many other? Kinsorbo, Chapman, Clisby, Jaliens, Germano, Mooy, Melling, Paartalu, Kennedy, Marino all played their natural positions. Germano, and even Safuwan though we're used to plug the left back position as Clisby was well short of being s reliable left back. There's probably an arguement that Duff and Novillo were not in their natural positions but both have played on both wings through their careers. Same with Villa, who is currently playing left wing for NY. 

Well I used the term 'position' for simplicity, but just because a player is played in the right position doesn't mean they are being played properly or to the best of their ability. I cbf getting into it again as I've posted a few times about it before, but seriously it should be obvious when you have Kennedy putting in crosses rather than being on the end of them.

[n i k o]

Yeah I get what your saying 

[AaronAV11]

The argument of Koren underperforming because he was playing out of position astounds me. He had is chance and played there a few times and did absolutely nothing. The reason he was chucked on a wing was because he wasn't good enough to play in midfield, being outclassed by young Australian players on a fraction of his wage.

Even if Koren played out of position 100% of the time he can still show his class rather than being invisible on the pitch.

[M13]

IMO that's not a strong argument about expenditure Murf. This current financial year CFG have spent some A$15m capital on CFA Melbourne. Of course I don't know the figures, but I doubt that they have spent A$150m capital on facilities in New York. I don't think it's reasonable to expect itemised expenditures (capital and operating) to be in the ratio 1:10 on every item in the accounts.

I'm sure that CFG watch what happens at Melbourne City pretty closely - perhaps not as closely as we do, but they will be getting the messages that we see on here and in the local media about Villa, Koren, and the other things that irritate us, and in line with their philosophy of continual improvement they will expect better in the future both from their own management and from those at CFA Melbourne including players.

 

CFG are planning on building a whole new stadium and a whole new training facility in New York, so they are planning on spending a lot more than the $15 or so million spent on Melbourne City's training ground. Hence I get the argument that "CFG spent 100 million on NYCFC and 10 million on Melbourne", and adjust their priorities accordingly. And going off the evidence I've seen, I don't think that argument is far off the mark. 

 

And the point I was making was that it would be good if CFG spent at least a 10th of the money they spent on NYCFC on Melbourne City. Not that they should spend at a 10 to 1 ratio on us. Of course, ideally I think they should spend more. They should spend enough to make the club successful IMO. And in particular their marquee spending policy has disappointed me, and makes me think that they aren't being as serious as they could be with trying to make Melbourne City successful.

 

I don't care how closely CFG watch Melbourne City. I don't care what they know. I only judge CFG by what they do. Let them put their money where their mouth is, as they say. Stop talking about expecting progress and improvement (things Sidwell and co said for 4 seasons as well, of course) and actively work to bring about progress and improvement. 

 

 

Anyway I'm tired of speculating about what CFG should do, and will wait to see what they actually do. Hopefully their next moves for Melbourne City don't underwhelm (like the Gold Coast friendly).

It´s perfectly alright to judge CFG by what they do.. But you can hardly judge them after less than five years at a guess. They simply don´t plan short term.

[KSK_47]

IMO that's not a strong argument about expenditure Murf. This current financial year CFG have spent some A$15m capital on CFA Melbourne. Of course I don't know the figures, but I doubt that they have spent A$150m capital on facilities in New York. I don't think it's reasonable to expect itemised expenditures (capital and operating) to be in the ratio 1:10 on every item in the accounts.

I'm sure that CFG watch what happens at Melbourne City pretty closely - perhaps not as closely as we do, but they will be getting the messages that we see on here and in the local media about Villa, Koren, and the other things that irritate us, and in line with their philosophy of continual improvement they will expect better in the future both from their own management and from those at CFA Melbourne including players.

 

CFG are planning on building a whole new stadium and a whole new training facility in New York, so they are planning on spending a lot more than the $15 or so million spent on Melbourne City's training ground. Hence I get the argument that "CFG spent 100 million on NYCFC and 10 million on Melbourne", and adjust their priorities accordingly. And going off the evidence I've seen, I don't think that argument is far off the mark. 

 

And the point I was making was that it would be good if CFG spent at least a 10th of the money they spent on NYCFC on Melbourne City. Not that they should spend at a 10 to 1 ratio on us. Of course, ideally I think they should spend more. They should spend enough to make the club successful IMO. And in particular their marquee spending policy has disappointed me, and makes me think that they aren't being as serious as they could be with trying to make Melbourne City successful.

 

I don't care how closely CFG watch Melbourne City. I don't care what they know. I only judge CFG by what they do. Let them put their money where their mouth is, as they say. Stop talking about expecting progress and improvement (things Sidwell and co said for 4 seasons as well, of course) and actively work to bring about progress and improvement. 

 

 

Anyway I'm tired of speculating about what CFG should do, and will wait to see what they actually do. Hopefully their next moves for Melbourne City don't underwhelm (like the Gold Coast friendly).

It´s perfectly alright to judge CFG by what they do.. But you can hardly judge them after less than five years at a guess. They simply don´t plan short term.

I understand where you are coming from, but you have to remember that we have been promised exciting football for 6 seasons so far at this club and we have also heard every reason why it has not been delivered. I know CFG cant be held accountable for what happened before they got here, but you still need to remember that our patience has already been stretched beyond the "give us 5 years" mark.

I dont want to put words in Murf's mouth, so I will use my own. 

Life is too short to keep sitting around waiting for people at this club to sort their shit out. City - by all means do what you need to do, but I'm not going to hang around while you figure it out. When you get your shit together I'm 100% in, but until then I have better things to do so the sooner the better please.

*thats actually a lie. I'm sure I will be hanging around to some extent but you get my drift

[Kinnibari]

Can thank CFG for giving us a life line. We wouldn't even have wheelie bins as ice baths as we would've folded by now.

No we wouldn't.

[NewConvert]

Questions:

Who would you rather have playing AM: Mooy or Koren?

How can both players be fitted in successfully?

For me, Mooy is way better than Koren. And on those occasions when Mooy was not available, Koren was given a chance to show his silky skills, and failed miserably. Can't blame JVS for his lack of performance. Can't blame CFG because he does not deliver. I wish that CFG would pay him out and get a new marquee but I don't know the ins and outs of the contract nor of their plans for the team.

[Shahanga]

The argument of Koren underperforming because he was playing out of position astounds me. He had is chance and played there a few times and did absolutely nothing. The reason he was chucked on a wing was because he wasn't good enough to play in midfield, being outclassed by young Australian players on a fraction of his wage.

Even if Koren played out of position 100% of the time he can still show his class rather than being invisible on the pitch.

agree 100%.

it's unfortunate that CFG seemed to think that just because he came off the bench at a struggling EPL club an ageing Koren would make a big splash in the A League. We've seen much more high profile EPL players come here at a similar stage of their careers and underwhelm eg Lazaradis, Moore, Emerton, so a few EPL games was no guarantee.

Frankly I've seen all the excuses put forward on this forum but I think the sad truth is this guy is just not good enough anymore.

 

[Dylan]

The argument of Koren underperforming because he was playing out of position astounds me. He had is chance and played there a few times and did absolutely nothing. The reason he was chucked on a wing was because he wasn't good enough to play in midfield, being outclassed by young Australian players on a fraction of his wage.

Even if Koren played out of position 100% of the time he can still show his class rather than being invisible on the pitch.

agree 100%.

it's unfortunate that CFG seemed to think that just because he came off the bench at a struggling EPL club an ageing Koren would make a big splash in the A League. We've seen much more high profile EPL players come here at a similar stage of their careers and underwhelm eg Lazaradis, Moore, Emerton, so a few EPL games was no guarantee.

Frankly I've seen all the excuses put forward on this forum but I think the sad truth is this guy is just not good enough anymore.

 

ah yes. I remember that semi final. His one chance after whinging in the media about being played out of position and yet he still went missing 

[japiedog]

Koren is not going to have a better season, because he does not want to be here.

Poor bloke just wanted to come here, live in the best city in the world, be the king of the A-League, and make a few $ while doing so.

Now he spends the best part of 2-3 minutes every morning right after waking up considering whether he should just end it now, but then remembers he has a family and decides to stick it out for their sake.

He then proceeds to go to training and can't stop thinking "why the fuck am I playing for this moron?" the whole time. He isn't some 18yo kid that has no clue, he has played at big clubs under good managers and realises how hopeless JVS is. He can't believe he fucked up so badly deciding to sign for a team managed by a bloke who would get Celtic relegated from the SPL.

and here i was thinking that you were only pretending that you didn't like JVS 

[rass]

 

I would say I agree with general consensus that the bloke was disappointing but I was there for Newy that game and the bloke that played that day looked like a Group One A-League player with a lot of enthusiasm and I left the game feeling like we had ourselves a solid marquee.  

Obviously as the season went on his enthusiasm and influence on games started to dry up and I think he was probably annoyed that Mooy was being chosen to pull the strings rather than himself as a once established International... lets face it St Mirren are no EPL club. Hopefully him and JVS can reconcile their differences about this or whatever is going on between the two of them.

I remember JVS when he first coached Williams left him out in the wilderness but then when he came back as Heart's interim coach he then had Williams scoring at will so hopefully as much as I wish JVS would just leave - I take hope that something like this can occur between him and Koren as I do believe the ability is still there.

This is spot on for me Cadete. I still believe Koren has the ability and certainly the class to be a real factor for us. But to me, the relationship between the two was key to how last year panned out.

The fact is though that they're both there again this season. So whatever the issue is, they're both grown men and they need to sort it out and move forward. Or else we're going to have the same performance from him again this season and that just can't happen.

[cadete]

Also FWIW it sounds stupid knocking Mooy (And I am not - I am obv a massive fan) but he can sometimes hinder those around him by holding on to the ball for too long... no doubt this also has probably annoyed Koren IMO in his time at City.

[tommac]

Koren was junk. Nothing to do with anyone else but him. He didn't even have a classy touch or some nouse, which is the least I would expect of an aging marquee. 

Edited June 26, 2015 by tommac

[pattyd89]

Also FWIW it sounds stupid knocking Mooy (And I am not - I am obv a massive fan) but he can sometimes hinder those around him by holding on to the ball for too long... no doubt this also has probably annoyed Koren IMO in his time at City.

I agree. Mooy holds onto the ball for too long. Wingers never get released when they should. Dribbles one too many as well.

[jw1739]

Also FWIW it sounds stupid knocking Mooy (And I am not - I am obv a massive fan) but he can sometimes hinder those around him by holding on to the ball for too long... no doubt this also has probably annoyed Koren IMO in his time at City.

I agree. Mooy holds onto the ball for too long. Wingers never get released when they should. Dribbles one too many as well.

Every City supporter knows that Mooy holds the ball too long. This is where the coach should step in - it's what CFG pay him for. When Koren and Mooy combine they deliver - will not forget that goal by Melling and the delightful play leading to it. If there are problems between players then again the coach is there to sort them out.

[Tonyboozeadams]

pish

[Tony999]

If this muppetry doesn't perform in the first five games with a full preseason behind him and injury-free, there will be massive pressure to get rid of him..... as if there already isn't any. I think he has been thrown a lifeline and given the first few games to shape up or ship out.

[Dylan]

Here is hoping for an acl injury in the preseason

[SF33]

It´s perfectly alright to judge CFG by what they do.. But you can hardly judge them after less than five years at a guess. They simply don´t plan short term.

One thing I will say about that is that if that's truly the way that CFG is planning, they've got it arse-about. There's no point building for five years, like an AFL team would. Manchester City might have that sort of luxury, to gradually build a champion. An A-League club really doesn't. We've seen plenty of examples of how quickly a team can turn from a rabble to a champion here and vice versa.

The problem with building over several years is that if you have any outstanding young Australian talent (e.g. Mooy), which you need to win the league, it's odds on that they'll only be with you for a couple seasons, before looking to challenge themselves at a higher standard than the A-League can offer. So you have to make hay while the sun shines.

If CFG actually cares about having supporters at this club, then we need to outperform Victory regularly. Because, as it stands, people that are new to the A-League and are looking to sign up with a Melbourne club are going to go with the one that is the reigning premier and champion, that has been the best team in the city in four of the five seasons that both have existed, that has twice as many members and routinely gets three times as many spectators at its home games.

[Red or Dead]

Koren could fit in a diamond midfield formation - you could even swap him with Mooy if Mooy wants to play more attacking football:

GK (v)

Franjic      -      Chapman      -      Kisnorbo      -      Clisby

Paartalu

Mooy               -               Melling

Koren (v)

Gameiro      -      Novillo (v)

 

Bench: Velaphi, Germano(v?), Garuccio, Williams, Babalj

Sub's Bench: Symeoy, Retre, Mauk, Kuzmanovski, Marino

Sub's Sub Bench: Youth players

Sub's Sub-Sub-Sub-Sub-Sub Bench: Hoffman.

[Tony999]

Koren could fit in a diamond midfield formation - you could even swap him with Mooy if Mooy wants to play more attacking football:

GK (v)

Franjic      -      Chapman      -      Kisnorbo      -      Clisby

Paartalu

Mooy               -               Melling

Koren (v)

Gameiro      -      Novillo (v)

 

Bench: Velaphi, Germano(v?), Garuccio, Williams, Babalj

Sub's Bench: Symeoy, Retre, Mauk, Kuzmanovski, Marino

Sub's Sub Bench: Youth players

Sub's Sub-Sub-Sub-Sub-Sub Bench: Hoffman.

Koren can fit in on the bench

[Deviant]

HAL MVP for the 15/16 season.

[Tesla]

So, no comment regarding him creating the most clear cut chance of the friendly, which should have ended as a goal?

Primed for a much improved season if you ask me, whether it will be good enough to justify being the marquee I don't know.

[Murfy1]

Fully agree, and said something similar in the match-day thread:

I'm definitely not a fan of Koren, but IMO he had a fairly good game. He showed a fine passing range, and he did produce the killer ball that gave Mauk the gilt-edged scoring opportunity. If Koren can produce a pass that good that creates a big scoring opportunity each game, I won't be able to fault him. Still a disappointing marquee in my book, but there's a chance that Koren could be better next season and could be a useful player in the team.

Especially IMO if he stays fit for most of the season, Koren can have a much improved season, and I hope for the sake of the team he does.

[Jovan]

He did this last season. Produce a moment of class and more often than not resulted in a good chance but then disappeared for long periods. 

Question I have is there a cut off point regarding naming the Marquee player for the upcoming season. 

Someone stated that you can only have 1 marquee per season  but from what point does it start.

So I guess what I'm asking could we still potentially be able to replace Koren.

[Tesla]

He did this last season. Produce a moment of class and more often than not resulted in a good chance but then disappeared for long periods. 

Question I have is there a cut off point regarding naming the Marquee player for the upcoming season. 

Someone stated that you can only have 1 marquee per season  but from what point does it start.

So I guess what I'm asking could we still potentially be able to replace Koren.

Either way it's pretty clear that Koren is staying (and therefore will be the marquee).

[NewConvert]

Either way it's pretty clear that Koren is staying (and therefore will be the marquee).

I'll have to live with this but next season the club needs a new marquee. He will have to have one hell of a season for me to be convinced otherwise.

[Red or Dead]

I'll have to live with this but next season the club needs a new marquee. He will have to have one hell of a season for me to be convinced otherwise.

There's no doubt in my mind that even if he has one hell of a season he won't be around longer than his current contract dictates.

I think CFG will use this as a learning exercise and do much better with our International Marquee for season 2016/17.

[pattyd89]

Koren seems to be the player who doesn't have a stamp on the game like Mooy - but produces moments of brilliance - ie. a killer pass. Issue is - no one is on the end of it to finish it. Agreed that he isn't the ideal marquee for Melbourne City - but as he is still on the books and can't be moved apparently, we need to utilise him better - that is guys who can bloody finish off that one moment of brilliance he produces per game. 

[n i k o]

Koren seems to be the player who doesn't have a stamp on the game like Mooy - but produces moments of brilliance - ie. a killer pass. Issue is - no one is on the end of it to finish it. Agreed that he isn't the ideal marquee for Melbourne City - but as he is still on the books and can't be moved apparently, we need to utilise him better - that is guys who can bloody finish off that one moment of brilliance he produces per game. 

But for me that's where the problem is. A marquee should be able to provide more than one moment of brilliance. It just isn't good enough. During the game on Saturday Koren seemed like he went missing for a lot of it besides his one moment of brilliance. Unfortunately I'm expecting no different come the start of the season but hoping like hell he will deliver so much more than he has so far. 

Edited July 22, 2015 by n i k o

[Dylan]

The passenger Will do nothing again this season on the field, just spend his time whinging to the media. Then at the end we will all be here thinking what was the point of that.

He is a joke.

I wonder what Engelaar thinks of his replacement 

[Tony999]

When Melb City v Man City played the commentators were saying how Koren had a disappointing season. With a full preseason injury free, if this guy does not perform in the first 5 games of the season he should be benched. Final straw!