Robert Koren (confirmed by club as released)

[johnno cpfc]

1 hour ago, Torn Asunder said:

Once fit, I would use Koren as an impact sub of the bench.  In theory, if he only had to play a max of 30 minutes per game, he could play anywhere across the midfield or upfront, subject to the state of play.  He is not up to contributing or influencing a game as a starter, so lets at least get something from him that contributes to the team going forward.  He could actually be pretty useful as a substitute, given his flashes of quality, and he may be less likely to get injured.  He has been labelled a luxury player, that is how he should be used.

actual this would fit the description which was attributed to some Hull City supporters " Luxury player" so if he gets fir we should use him as such.

 

[Tony999]

4 hours ago, sheepdog said:

You're missing the point here.

He is a shit cunt. 

You can't polish a turd.

 

No you can't but you can roll it in glitter.

[drewmelbcity]

As useful as tits on a bull.

[kingofhearts]

Put it this way. If mooy was performing as poor as Koren was wouldn't we be calling him out? If you're on marquee wages, you better perform like one. 

If he was on clisby wages and not taking up a visa then i wouldn't be as pissed off. But at the moment, we are just not getting what we are paying for.

[jw1739]

1 minute ago, kingofhearts said:

Put it this way. If mooy was performing as poor as Koren was wouldn't we be calling him out? If you're on marquee wages, you better perform like one. 

If he was on clisby wages and not taking up a visa then i wouldn't be as pissed off. But at the moment, we are just not getting what we are paying for.

Just one thing wrong with that analysis. It's not us that are paying. Your argument would be valid if we were talking about David Villa, because people actually bought season tickets expecting him to see play 10 matches for us, and possibly 6 of those at home. But it's CFG footing the bill for RK.

[Tonyboozeadams]

Koren is crap. But he's better than that spud at WSW

[kingofhearts]

3 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Just one thing wrong with that analysis. It's not us that are paying. Your argument would be valid if we were talking about David Villa, because people actually bought season tickets expecting him to see play 10 matches for us, and possibly 6 of those at home. But it's CFG footing the bill for RK.

Well in that case cfg aren't getting what they paid for. The end result however should be that Koren goes

[NewConvert]

10 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Just one thing wrong with that analysis. It's not us that are paying. Your argument would be valid if we were talking about David Villa, because people actually bought season tickets expecting him to see play 10 matches for us, and possibly 6 of those at home. But it's CFG footing the bill for RK.

Get your point but the people on this forum as well as ticket holders have invested emotionally on the team otherwise why would we bother posting here or handing over money? And CFG are paying RK so that you and I fork out the dosh to go and see him play.

What ever the original intentions for the marquee label, I expect a much better than average player which is why they get paid more. If they are continually injured there is no point to them being at the club (that also applies to salary capped players) but in games with an equally strong team the marquee is meant to deliver the points. And with RK we are not getting that. And what is worse for RK two local players in Mooy and Mauk have shown him not to be better than average.

As to the fear that he may be booed - well I don't participate in that, and TBH I don't recall any of our players being disrespected individually with the exception of Redders.

[Tony999]

WSW seems to like our spuds. Just change his name to Robert Kuran and the R&B block would want him instantly.

[strider]

50 minutes ago, Tony999 said:

WSW seems to like our spuds. Just change his name to Robert Kuran and the R&B block would want him instantly.

na more like ahmed abu al hoomadi ber tiz

[kingofhearts]

i wouldn't of minded Koren being in the team last night......

(Waits for criticism) 

[NewConvert]

4 hours ago, kingofhearts said:

i wouldn't of minded Koren being in the team last night......

(Waits for criticism) 

Same thought occurred to me as they kicked the first goal. Then I thought nah, no difference.

[rayv36]

6 hours ago, kingofhearts said:

i wouldn't of minded Koren being in the team last night......

(Waits for criticism) 

Agreed we lacked any sort of playmaker. Hell, I would of taken Kalmar. 

[n i k o]

Absolutely we needed him in there

[Jimmy]

3 hours ago, rayv36 said:

Agreed we lacked any sort of playmaker. Hell, I would of taken Kalmar. 

That was meant to be Mauk. 

[Shahanga]

24 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

That was meant to be Mauk. 

Look I'm critical of Koren simply because he's not marquee level, but aside from the Derby he's been first time standard this year when fit and I can't understand how people thought Mauk was better, as Mauk is no where near fit enough, as a coach with testicles would point out to him.

[rass]

2 hours ago, Shahanga said:

Look I'm critical of Koren simply because he's not marquee level, but aside from the Derby he's been first time standard this year when fit and I can't understand how people thought Mauk was better, as Mauk is no where near fit enough, as a coach with testicles would point out to him.

Yep, exactly right Shahanga.

Sadly though it all means nothing if he can't get on the park. 

I think the only thing keeping him at the club now is that at least this time he's had a preseason, so he could still make an impact later on.

Where as last season, there was nothing there when he came back from his calf.

[Murfy1]

And I would have liked Aaron Hughes to play the second half as well. 

 

The problem of course though is that Koren is injured for another 4 weeks (and 3 weeks ago the club said he would be injured for only 3 weeks!), so it doesn't matter what players could hypothetically provide for the team if they can't get on the pitch.

[n i k o]

So a germano is 6 weeks

A Koren is looking to be 10 weeks

[Dylan]

6 minutes ago, Murfy1 said:

And I would have liked Aaron Hughes to play the second half as well. 

 

The problem of course though is that Koren is injured for another 4 weeks (and 3 weeks ago the club said he would be injured for only 3 weeks!), so it doesn't matter what players could hypothetically provide for the team if they can't get on the pitch.

Koren wont play again. Apparently its 8 of 10 chance for Pirlo and Lampard to come on a 14 game guest stint which is more than half a season. So including finals, that is the end of Jan

Edited November 14, 2015 by Dylan

[n i k o]

Would rather play our youth players

[Dylan]

1 minute ago, n i k o said:

Would rather play our youth players

We have, and lost 3-0

[n i k o]

5 minutes ago, n i k o said:

Would rather play our youth players . Change the coach. 

 

[jw1739]

22 minutes ago, Dylan said:

Koren wont play again. Apparently its 8 of 10 chance for Pirlo and Lampard to come on a 14 game guest stint which is more than half a season. So including finals, that is the end of Jan

How can we have two guest players? Or is one a "like-for-like injury replacement" for Koren?

[Jovan]

Seriously.  Getting Pirlo or Lampard or even both would be utterly pointless. 

Get a guest coach for 14 weeks.

Time for Guus.

[NewConvert]

4 hours ago, Shahanga said:

Look I'm critical of Koren simply because he's not marquee level, but aside from the Derby he's been first time standard this year when fit and I can't understand how people thought Mauk was better, as Mauk is no where near fit enough, as a coach with testicles would point out to him.

Mauk is better. But his problems are that he is easily bustled off the ball and he tires/goes missing for large period of the game. I suspect that he is fit but lacks the engine to play a pivotal role in the mid-field. Koren goes missing continuously when he is on the pitch or he is injured. However in the games that Mauk has played, last night aside, Mauk has done more than Koren has. Also Mauk has pretty good fo9ot skills.

[Torn Asunder]

The guest players will be as much about driving membership numbers, however as a longer term investment, it will only pay off with a new manager at the helm as well.

If Scott Munn has been summoned to Manchester, I'm sure his "please explain" response will include a recommendation for a new coach.

Edited November 15, 2015 by Torn Asunder

[Shahanga]

I posted that Koren was a poor signing "on paper" a while ago and I suspect a few people were perhaps surprised or confused, so here is a longer explanation.

My main problem over the Koren signing was his age.  This relates to 2 areas, his ability to perform and his potential for injury.

Lets look at the injury side of things first.  The experts say that a player's injury risk climbs after age 28.  Based on my anecdotal experience, it probably climbs exponentially.  Any supporters of Heart will know the poor run we've had with players of 34 years old and older.  So there was a real question mark over his availability, particularly when you factor in hard Australian grounds, the physical demands of A League games and the higher work load you would expect from a midfielder.  In fact its interesting to note that whilst a few older players have stayed available for selection in Australia, anecdotally these seems to be predominately defenders (where the work load is less) or strikers who spend a large percentage of time coming off the bench.  So when you look at all that, the odds of a 34 year old midfielder being available for every game were very low.

My second issue is with his "ability to perform".  Now when it comes to older players the experts (like Ange Postecoglou) stop looking at their "body of work" in their career, but rather just focus on their last season.  So whilst Koren had had an impressive career, playing at world cup, captaining his nation and playing in the premier league, that's not what you need to look at, you need to focus on what he's just done.

Koren's last season before us was in the Premier League, which sounds impressive, till you realise he was at Hull City, who barely avoided relegation and even then he only started 10 games (plus coming off the bench in another 12).  Now when you look at some of the players who have come to the A League with brilliant CVs but in the twilight of their careers and have been decidedly average (off the top of my head Emerton, Moore, Laziridis, Heskey, Fowler, plus plenty of others) you can see that a strong career is no guarantee of playing like a marquee in the A League.  Given that there are a number of players who reached far greater heights than Koren but failed to take the A League by storm in their twilight years, you can see why I and some others had big question marks over this signing when it was announced.  On top of that, a question whether a 34 year old European playing on hard Australian grounds in summer heat could dominate from midfield for 90 minutes.  Certainly not many could, anyway.

In my mind if you recruit a 34 year old as marquee, they have to be, at the very least, a household name in footballing circles.  95% of the fans had never heard of the guy.

It is my considered view that if he was 28 he would have been a good signing, but this was 6 years too late.  Now as to the future, well i hope he can get back on the field and make a bit of an impact late in the season, mostly off the bench, which would suit his work rate and his body's frailties. 

[agoalie]

he is done, tore other calf in rehab. doubt will ever appear again. such a waste. 

[NewConvert]

36 minutes ago, Shahanga said:

I posted that Koren was a poor signing "on paper" a while ago and I suspect a few people were perhaps surprised or confused, so here is a longer explanation.

My main problem over the Koren signing was his age.  This relates to 2 areas, his ability to perform and his potential for injury.

Lets look at the injury side of things first.  The experts say that a player's injury risk climbs after age 28.  Based on my anecdotal experience, it probably climbs exponentially.  Any supporters of Heart will know the poor run we've had with players of 34 years old and older.  So there was a real question mark over his availability, particularly when you factor in hard Australian grounds, the physical demands of A League games and the higher work load you would expect from a midfielder.  In fact its interesting to note that whilst a few older players have stayed available for selection in Australia, anecdotally these seems to be predominately defenders (where the work load is less) or strikers who spend a large percentage of time coming off the bench.  So when you look at all that, the odds of a 34 year old midfielder being available for every game were very low.

My second issue is with his "ability to perform".  Now when it comes to older players the experts (like Ange Postecoglou) stop looking at their "body of work" in their career, but rather just focus on their last season.  So whilst Koren had had an impressive career, playing at world cup, captaining his nation and playing in the premier league, that's not what you need to look at, you need to focus on what he's just done.

Koren's last season before us was in the Premier League, which sounds impressive, till you realise he was at Hull City, who barely avoided relegation and even then he only started 10 games (plus coming off the bench in another 12).  Now when you look at some of the players who have come to the A League with brilliant CVs but in the twilight of their careers and have been decidedly average (off the top of my head Emerton, Moore, Laziridis, Heskey, Fowler, plus plenty of others) you can see that a strong career is no guarantee of playing like a marquee in the A League.  Given that there are a number of players who reached far greater heights than Koren but failed to take the A League by storm in their twilight years, you can see why I and some others had big question marks over this signing when it was announced.  On top of that, a question whether a 34 year old European playing on hard Australian grounds in summer heat could dominate from midfield for 90 minutes.  Certainly not many could, anyway.

In my mind if you recruit a 34 year old as marquee, they have to be, at the very least, a household name in footballing circles.  95% of the fans had never heard of the guy.

It is my considered view that if he was 28 he would have been a good signing, but this was 6 years too late.  Now as to the future, well i hope he can get back on the field and make a bit of an impact late in the season, mostly off the bench, which would suit his work rate and his body's frailties. 

That is a great post. Thanks.

[Jimmy]

Was very skeptical on page one of this thread and it's all been down hill from there. 

[hakz7]

Hope he's done for the season so we can get an injury replacement.

Bring Engelaar out of retirement. 

[jw1739]

41 minutes ago, agoalie said:

he is done, tore other calf in rehab. doubt will ever appear again. such a waste. 

Are you fair dinkum or are you winding us up?

[agoalie]

1 minute ago, jw1739 said:

Are you fair dinkum or are you winding us up?

i wish i was winding you up but im not.

[Embee]

agoalie doesn't do wind ups

[Shahanga]

51 minutes ago, agoalie said:

he is done, tore other calf in rehab. doubt will ever appear again. such a waste. 

Well that's bad news.  I might not be his biggest fan, but once CFG didn't tear up his contract over the off season we were stuck with him and i was hopeful he could contribute this year.  Given he's a marquee I'm not sure what our injury replacement options are.  My guess is none.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Shahanga
spelling

[belaguttman]

If he were a horse...

[jw1739]

7 minutes ago, Shahanga said:

Well that's bad news.  I might not be his biggest fan, but once CFG didn't tear up his contract over the off season we were stuck with him and i was hopeful he could contribute this year.  Given he's a marquee I'm not sure what out injury replacement options are.  My guess is none.

We can have a visa injury replacement, but he can't be a marquee. But if Koren is paid wholly outside the cap then we can't even do that unless we have space inside the cap.
So now we have two visa positions, one our marquee, taken by ageing players who can't get onto the park.  Plus Gameiro for at least a season and Brown for an indeterminate period, and Marino probably for the rest of the season.
Following on from your previous post FFS let's hope CFG are going to learn something out of all this.

Edited November 28, 2015 by jw1739

[hakz7]

9 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

We can have a visa injury replacement, but he can't be a marquee. But if Koren is paid wholly outside the cap then we can't even do that unless we have space inside the cap.
So now we have two visa positions, one our marquee, taken by ageing players who can't get onto the park.  Plus Gameiro for at least a season and Brown for an indeterminate period, and Marino probably for the rest of the season.
Following on from your previous post FFS let's hope CFG are going to learn something out of all this.

Seriously?... That's terrible then.

[Shahanga]

11 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

We can have a visa injury replacement, but he can't be a marquee. But if Koren is paid wholly outside the cap then we can't even do that unless we have space inside the cap.
So now we have two visa positions, one our marquee, taken by ageing players who can't get onto the park.  Plus Gameiro for at least a season and Brown for an indeterminate period, and Marino probably for the rest of the season.
Following on from your previous post FFS let's hope CFG are going to learn something out of all this.

Well if there is a silver lining in this double whammy, perhaps its that we can use Gameiro's pay & Koren's visa status to recruit a foreigner?

In regards to have they learnt anything?  Well i think they have learnt from Koren, but honestly, if two blokes like you and i, who the club would surely dismiss "as knowing nothing about football" can see its a bad idea at the time, why can't they?  its bloody frustrating to watch some clown present a square wheel and then wonder why it doesn't roll.....