Melbourne VS Keogh and Ko (27 December)

[Thrillhouse]

worst feeling at any heart/city game, should have won that 5-0
useless defending/tactics 
should of switched pen taker for the 3rd 
caceras is shit
home end looked very empty but got loud as everyone hated what was happening on the pitch
how much more needs to happen before serious action gets taken with the officials in this country? clear goal disallowed, booked player gives 2 pens away and no 2nd yellow, other thuggery not carded, dino should of been off long before the end. 1 minute added time in the 1st half which had 4 goals and pens??????
The game won't grow with fuckwits in charge

[moops]

2 hours ago, hakz7 said:

There were no hands involved in the leap, no climbing, no nudging. His upper arm was on the defender's shoulder to get up for the ball. I'd say no foul but I might have to get another look at it.

he did put his arms in his back, do I think it was a dubious foul? No, this shit happens all the time.

[jeffplz]

worse than the game itself was this fucking poster outside. what were they thinking

[moops]

1 hour ago, Deluka said:

Not sure if it's been mentioned but manny Muscat was the sole reason we conceded the first or second goal (I can't remember) - going to ground two footed and missing everything which allowed them to place their cross to perfection.

Also, they had so much time at the top of the box, had so much time to tee up a shot.

You might be thinking of Brattan who slid in and just sat on the ground as they scored a goal.

1 minute ago, jeffplz said:

worse than the game itself was this fucking poster outside. what were they thinking

lol

[TJV]

1 minute ago, jeffplz said:

worse than the game itself was this fucking poster outside. what were they thinking

Honestly looks like sorensen having a giggle at boo-zanis after tonights 'goalkeeping' display 

[wombegongal]

1 hour ago, GreenSeater said:

This is the guy who scored two goals tonight you're talking about yeah? He missed two penalties, which is pretty poor, but he still scored two goals...

One of those goals is a penalty you can't really count that. So lets strike that. In general play outside the goal he gave very little tonight and has been below par for the last few weeks. He isn't a fucken sacred cow. Cahill and him don't work well together on the evidence so far. Cahill was great tonight let him start up top next game which puts Bruno on the pine for 60 mins.

[dr lime]

19 minutes ago, wombegongal said:

One of those goals is a penalty you can't really count that. So lets strike that. In general play outside the goal he gave very little tonight and has been below par for the last few weeks. He isn't a fucken sacred cow. Cahill and him don't work well together on the evidence so far. Cahill was great tonight let him start up top next game which puts Bruno on the pine for 60 mins.

Just no. I thought there were more signs tonight than previously that Cahill and Bruno were starting to be able to sort out how to play together. Cahill seemed to be deeper and played better there but they interchanged a bit. 

As disappointed as I am about the result, you don;t drop Bruno just for missing pens. We could have scored 6 or 7 so attack is not a major worry on tonight;s performance, although not 100% based on some previous weeks.

But defensive transition in midfield and some defensive cover for full backs is our big issue. Franjic and Muscat to go well before Bruno. And give Brattan a kick in the arse if you are after sacred cows.  

[Chris p]

1 hour ago, dr lime said:

Just no. I thought there were more signs tonight than previously that Cahill and Bruno were starting to be able to sort out how to play together. Cahill seemed to be deeper and played better there but they interchanged a bit. 

As disappointed as I am about the result, you don;t drop Bruno just for missing pens. We could have scored 6 or 7 so attack is not a major worry on tonight;s performance, although not 100% based on some previous weeks.

But defensive transition in midfield and some defensive cover for full backs is our big issue. Franjic and Muscat to go well before Bruno. And give Brattan a kick in the arse if you are after sacred cows.  

Clearly attack is an issue if we're missing so many chances

[Dylan]

FFA Cup curse

[Tony999]

On the plus side, i thought the crowd was healthy considering the time of the year, the day and the actual time.

[haz]

Anyone know what JVS said in his post match interview?

[Dylan]

4 minutes ago, haz said:

Anyone know what JVS said in his post match interview?

We are here to win a prize

[jw1739]

IMO it's wrong to start to bag individual players and talk about dropping "sacred cows" and similar talk. We've had this discussion/argument for six seasons and now we're into the seventh, and most seasons we've had a huge turnover in the playing squad. We've also been though a host of assistant coaches. From wheelie-bin ice baths we now have the best facilities in the League. But still the performances and the results are the same. Bizarre selections, poor management of the bench, pathetic defending, inability to hold a lead, coughing up goals in the last few minutes of a half/match, agonisingly slow ball transition, and the total absence of a Plan B for any situation. There is one constant throughout - someone who has been either Head Coach or Technical Director for the bulk of our existence.

There are no guarantees in football, but I'm pretty sure that a number of current A-League coaches would have our squad humming like a well-oiled machine - Arnold, Muscat, and yes even Kenny Lowe would be getting infinitely more out of them than our coach.

Every week people start to tear into one player or another as the whipping boy. It's not the players FFS.

[belaguttman]

6 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

IMO it's wrong to start to bag individual players and talk about dropping "sacred cows" and similar talk. We've had this discussion/argument for six seasons and now we're into the seventh, and most seasons we've had a huge turnover in the playing squad. We've also been though a host of assistant coaches. From wheelie-bin ice baths we now have the best facilities in the League. But still the performances and the results are the same. Bizarre selections, poor management of the bench, pathetic defending, inability to hold a lead, coughing up goals in the last few minutes of a half/match, agonisingly slow ball transition, and the total absence of a Plan B for any situation. There is one constant throughout - someone who has been either Head Coach or Technical Director for the bulk of our existence.

There are no guarantees in football, but I'm pretty sure that a number of current A-League coaches would have our squad humming like a well-oiled machine - Arnold, Muscat, and yes even Kenny Lowe would be getting infinitely more out of them than our coach.

Every week people start to tear into one player or another as the whipping boy. It's not the players FFS.

I couldn't agree more. when we have a squad with this quality playing like vintage Heart run on a shoestring with a injury list the size of many other teams there is one common person pulling the strings, setting the style and the culture

[Hellenic Hero]

Just watched the game. Not pissed off at Bruno anymore. Bouzanis and Muscat were disgusting.

[Nate]

ahahaha can't believe people were actually blaming Bruno, it's not like he missed the penalties anyway - they were SAVED by a goalkeeper who had the game of his life (and he still scored 2 lol)

[Torn Asunder]

Exciting for the neautral ✔️

Excruciating for the home support ✔️✔️✔️

Quite simply, it doesn't matter how good you are in an attacking sense, if you defend like we did last night, it's a world of pain.

I literally know someone who said they're done with this club after last night ... You can't expect supporters to commit to a club that just gives up leads and concede goals so easily.

Again a back 3 without wing backs, a GK who can't defend his near post ... its ridiculous. Either play 3 at the back with actual defenders behind wing backs, or play a back 4.  We cannot persist with an interchanging defensive structure. It worked early in the season. Now the other clubs know how to exploit it every time by hitting us out wide and fast in transition. It's dead, bury it.

Sorrenson needs to be reinstated as the GK ... a sweeper keeper needs to be able to goal keep first and foremost before sweeping duties; Bouzanis lacks the fundamental keeping skills to be a starting A-League keeper.

Play a conventional defence in front of Sorrenson, and with our attacking threats up front and out wide, and with our quality in midfield, we have the ability to win the league. 

[mus-28]

First game I've been able to get to all season, made me feel like the Heart days. Never change.

[mjake1234]

Torn - Out of likes.

After last night my wife quite seriously asked me if we should, after 6 seasons, just give up on the team and join Victory. And we don't blame the players.

Edited December 27, 2016 by mjake1234

[Dylan]

13 minutes ago, Torn Asunder said:

Exciting for the neautral ✔️

Excruciating for the home support ✔️✔️✔️

Quite simply, it doesn't matter how good you are in an attacking sense, if you defend like we did last night, it's a world of pain.

I literally know someone who said they're done with this club after last night ... You can't expect supporters to commit to a club that just gives up leads and concede goals so easily.

Again a back 3 without wing backs, a GK who can't defend his near post ... its ridiculous. Either play 3 at the back with actual defenders behind wing backs, or play a back 4.  We cannot persist with an interchanging defensive structure. It worked early in the season. Now the other clubs know how to exploit it every time by hitting us out wide and fast in transition. It's dead, bury it.

Sorrenson needs to be reinstated as the GK ... a sweeper keeper needs to be able to goal keep first and foremost before sweeping duties; Bouzanis lacks the fundamental keeping skills to be a starting A-League keeper.

Play a conventional defence in front of Sorrenson, and with our attacking threats up front and out wide, and with our quality in midfield, we have the ability to win the league. 

As if you would believe that especially if its said right after the game. 

[Torn Asunder]

It wasn't said in anger, it was said by someone who had finally been broken ... you could see it in their eyes. I would be surprised if they come back

[Dylan]

28 minutes ago, Torn Asunder said:

It wasn't said in anger, it was said by someone who had finally been broken ... you could see it in their eyes. I would be surprised if they come back

Yeah yeah sure. Look forgive my skepticism and this issnt aimed at you. But if they stayed through the streak of Aloisi but suddenly a draw two weeks after we won our first piece of silverware in history he is through with the club?  

Edited December 28, 2016 by Dylan

[Hellenic Hero]

Bouzanis: 4

Franjic: 6

Muscat:5

Tongyik: 6.5

Colazo: 6

Brattan:5

Kilkenny:7.5

Cahill:7

Kamau: 8

Caceras:5

Bruno: 7

Subs

Nando:6

Genreau: 6

Arzani: NA

Thoughts?

Edited December 28, 2016 by Hellenic Hero
Mistake

[wombegongal]

8 hours ago, dr lime said:

Just no. I thought there were more signs tonight than previously that Cahill and Bruno were starting to be able to sort out how to play together. Cahill seemed to be deeper and played better there but they interchanged a bit. 

As disappointed as I am about the result, you don;t drop Bruno just for missing pens. We could have scored 6 or 7 so attack is not a major worry on tonight;s performance, although not 100% based on some previous weeks.

But defensive transition in midfield and some defensive cover for full backs is our big issue. Franjic and Muscat to go well before Bruno. And give Brattan a kick in the arse if you are after sacred cows.  

Assuming there is only one spot (which really there is for a striker in this setup) Cahill put in a better shift than Fornaroli last night. So next week you pick him up top simples really.

 

Now you could argue for a formation change but seriously JVS.

[playmaker]

If there is any finger pointing going on it should be straight at JVS. For any manager not to set up a team through structure and tactics to negate an opposition's deep defence and counter is beyond me.

Every fkn time. How the fk do we just concede so easily, it's pathetic. They only have 2 players that are any good and yet we gave them full rein of the pitch. Manage them ffs.

What we need is an old Italian manager from the 80s to replace JVS an teach this team how to hold a defensive structure and how to nullify dangerous players like Castro, Keogh, Troisi, Rojas,.

Sure we have Jakobsen and Malik out, so instead of using that as an excuse, change the team's formation and tactics. 

Another point which I mentioned in another thread was the referees, the FFA really needs to invest in getting this right as it is a blight on our game. 5 marquee referees should be lured to the A league to teach our local refs how to do their jobs.

In conclusion, I am dissatisfied with the draw and all the other dramas, but the real issue is the way we concede and the lack of planning to negate this.

We can't just play one way and not expect our weakness to be exploited.

TBH the safest and dumbest way tho play football is to flood defensively and try to counter, the way we play is unsafe and managed by the dumbest manager.

JVS needs to go now.

 

 

[Kiro Kompiro]

I know others have mentioned sacred cows, but I would drop Bratten.  He really is not doing anywhere near enough as the deep play maker. Loses the ball too easily, takes far too much time on the ball, missing too many passes, basically looks disinterested.

OTOH I like Killer: often cleaned up Brattans shit, supported his defenders can actually make a pass, shows passion and not afraid to let anyone have it.  Would be my captain.

1 minute ago, playmaker said:

If there is any finger pointing going on it should be straight at JVS. For any manager not to set up a team through structure and tactics to negate an opposition's deep defence and counter is beyond me.

Every fkn time. How the fk do we just concede so easily, it's pathetic. They only have 2 players that are any good and yet we gave them full rein of the pitch. Manage them ffs.

What we need is an old Italian manager from the 80s to replace JVS an teach this team how to hold a defensive structure and how to nullify dangerous players like Castro, Keogh, Troisi, Rojas,.

Sure we have Jakobsen and Malik out, so instead of using that as an excuse, change the team's formation and tactics. 

Another point which I mentioned in another thread was the referees, the FFA really needs to invest in getting this right as it is a blight on our game. 5 marquee referees should be lured to the A league to teach our local refs how to do their jobs.

In conclusion, I am dissatisfied with the draw and all the other dramas, but the real issue is the way we concede and the lack of planning to negate this.

We can't just play one way and not expect our weakness to be exploited.

TBH the safest and dumbest way tho play football is to flood defensively and try to counter, the way we play is unsafe and managed by the dumbest manager.

JVS needs to go now.

 

 

I've said it a million times: JVS is incapable of coaching defense.  He simply cannot do it.  Go back to the days when we had Hamill, Good, Colosimo and Bolton for the hilarious Laurel and Hardy defending.  Nothings changed.

[wombegongal]

5 minutes ago, Kiro Kompiro said:

I know others have mentioned sacred cows, but I would drop Bratten.  He really is not doing anywhere near enough as the deep play maker. Loses the ball too easily, takes far too much time on the ball, missing too many passes, basically looks disinterested.

OTOH I like Killer: often cleaned up Brattans shit, supported his defenders can actually make a pass, shows passion and not afraid to let anyone have it.  Would be my captain.

Should be the coach. Actually has a clue.

[Fredinho69]

Haven't been that angry/frustrated/upset after a game in quite some time. That one got away from us it was there on a platter. Yeah Reddy saved it but Bruno went the same way with all 3 penalties. We really need a left back. Muscat and Rose just don't cut it and Colazo is a waste back there he's much better as a left winger. Am a fan of Bouzanis but thought he should've done better with there second and third goals. 

Thought Cahill was fantastic that was easily his best game for us hopefully he keeps up this form.

[rass]

The vids that come out look all nice and cosy but wondering if there's more happening under the scenes.

I love Kilkenny, has been the standout all year for mine and apart from a real shaky first 15mins in the last derby, hasn't put a foot wrong. ..but he's obviously very demanding and there was a moment in the first half Muscat lost his shit at him. Really looked like a payback. I know this happens all the time but obviously the team is underperforming to their own expectations and the pressure is really starting to show.

For this, the blame is solely with JVS. As people say, he's definitely a 'cancer ' on any group of players he's in charge of. He continues to get everything wrong; 3-5-2 just does not work for us. Players like Rojas and Harold are instinctly playing first time balls across from their wings without even looking up first; we're so predictable. 

...but games are also won and lost on moments.  And in football there is no more clear cut opportunity to control your destiny than a penalty. His first miss resulted in a 2 goal swing and then a second penalty miss that would have won the game - just no excuse for it and to absolve Bruno of any blame for this result is just plain wrong.

[jw1739]

The penalties were the perfect example of  "no plan B." Even if Bruno had scored with the first two, some one else should have taken the third. Decent GKs are not stupid, they know the mind games especially when there's a delay before the kick is taken. IMO Colazo should have taken it - genuine left-footer and would have changed the whole dynamics of the kick. What are we going to do if we play finals and a match goes to penalties?

I don't blame Bruno for anything last night. His goal off his left foot was an absolute peach. Glorious stuff.

[rass]

5 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

The penalties were the perfect example of  "no plan B." Even if Bruno had scored with the first two, some one else should have taken the third. Decent GKs are not stupid, they know the mind games especially when there's a delay before the kick is taken. IMO Colazo should have taken it - genuine left-footer and would have changed the whole dynamics of the kick. What are we going to do if we play finals and a match goes to penalties?

I don't blame Bruno for anything last night. His goal off his left foot was an absolute peach. Glorious stuff.

No, no, no JW. He is captain and whilst out on the ground he pulls the rein on who takes the spot kick. Yes, admirable that he took the responsibility but also pig headed too.

On both the first and third pens, Reddy stood slightly off centre, inviting Bruno to hit it there. He got in his brain and the result was 2 pen misses. He has to take some blame surely. 

[Tony999]

Will anyone be kind enough to enlighten me what Kilkenny said post match interview?

[jw1739]

2 minutes ago, rass said:

No, no, no JW. He is captain and whilst out on the ground he pulls the rein on who takes the spot kick. Yes, admirable that he took the responsibility but also pig headed too.

On both the first and third pens, Reddy stood slightly off centre, inviting Bruno to hit it there. He got in his brain and the result was 2 pen misses. He has to take some blame surely. 

Well, of course you're right, but I just don't like blaming individual players when the whole match was an example of all the failures that we've discussed on here for 6-plus seasons. All up Bruno has 12 goals for us this season, including 6 penalties (Cup and League). He's the best striker we've ever had. The captaincy is too much for him to carry as well. The root cause of last night - and so many other nights - is on the training ground.

[playmaker]

25 minutes ago, rass said:

His first miss resulted in a 2 goal swing

A here is the problems. Not defending against the threat is just plain stupid especially when you know this is highly likely to happen.

Edited December 28, 2016 by playmaker

[thedissilent]

19 minutes ago, Tony999 said:

Will anyone be kind enough to enlighten me what Kilkenny said post match interview?

http://www.foxsports.com.au/video/football/a-league/kilkenny-grills-referees!601586

[rass]

5 minutes ago, playmaker said:

A here is the problems. Not defending against the threat is just plain stupid especially when you know this is highly likely to happen.

Worst feeling ever. Celebrating a 3-1 lead to sit down 30 seconds later at 2-2. Complete fuk up from everyone involved. 

[jw1739]

For the record, we've played Perth in 20 League matches over the seasons. Won 5, drawn 7, lost 8.

[Jovan]

1 minute ago, jw1739 said:

For the record, we've played Perth in 20 League matches over the seasons. Won 5, drawn 7, lost 8.

And the winning percentage is? No need to even calculate. Ha.

[jw1739]

3 minutes ago, thedissilent said:

http://www.foxsports.com.au/video/football/a-league/kilkenny-grills-referees!601586

Nothing wrong with what he said. Plays for the bloody shirt that's all. Gone up a mile in my estimation.

[Jovan]

This probably should be put into the "UOTYH" thread but I really enjoyed last night's game. Barring the final result and having slept on it that's the sort of game that are great to be at. Had Bruno scored the last pen in injury time it would have been an amazing game.

6 goals 2 reds 2 missed/saved pens (depending on your bent) 1 disallowed goal couple posts. Great entertainment.

Decent crowd and atmosphere.