City vs Western Sydney, AAMI Park, Friday 13th November 2015 7:40pm

[Ray]

Here is the warning from one of the Safety Data Sheets for a flare. You can all decide on whether you are willing to light one, throw one or conceal one when you come to the game. Who of you are willing to take your children to the game and have them breathe this in? What are the consequences if they breathe it in now and what will it do to them in 20-30 years time? 

The argument that flares have been part of football for decades is NOT a defence for using them.

People, tanked or not, do not understand the ramifications if only ONE person is overcome with the fumes and they can identify you. Or possibly even that a small vibration when one of these things is concealed in your clothing will leave you seriously burned.

In addition the material is a Class 1 explosive, so if you have carried it on public transport you are probably committing an offence there as well.

EFFECTS OF ACUTE EXPOSURE: TUBE CONTENTS ARE CORROSIVE TO EYES AND IRRITATING TO RESPIRATORY

TRACT AND SKIN. INHALATION OF COMBUSTION PRODUCTS WILL IRRITATE EYES, LUNGS, AND MUCOUS

MEMBRANES. HOLD SIGNAL DOWN WIND WHEN BURNING. AVOID BREATHING SMOKE, WHENEVER POSSIBLE.

[NewConvert]

Strictly speaking terrorism is a political philosophy begun by Robespierre and Jen-Paul Marat. Obviously acts of terror were conducted before by marauding mercenaries and tribes but only with these two were the sowings of modern political terrorism initiated. So it is difficult to call it terrorism but if Johnno and his wife no longer attend another game and other people may not want to attend games for the same reason, then it has had the same effect as terrorism. What happened outside the stadium then becomes even more of a terrorist act, without political intent but certainly with malicious intent. So it boils down to intent but the consequences are very similar.

[GreenSeater]

128 people were killed with guns and bombs in a terrorist attack in Paris less than a week ago and we're comparing that to somebody bringing pyro to a football match? Fuck me dead. Obviously what happened to johnno cpfc and his wife is a disgrace and the perpitators should be punished accordingly, but come on. 

[n i k o]

2 hours ago, Ray said:

Here is the warning from one of the Safety Data Sheets for a flare. You can all decide on whether you are willing to light one, throw one or conceal one when you come to the game. Who of you are willing to take your children to the game and have them breathe this in? What are the consequences if they breathe it in now and what will it do to them in 20-30 years time? 

The argument that flares have been part of football for decades is NOT a defence for using them.

People, tanked or not, do not understand the ramifications if only ONE person is overcome with the fumes and they can identify you. Or possibly even that a small vibration when one of these things is concealed in your clothing will leave you seriously burned.

In addition the material is a Class 1 explosive, so if you have carried it on public transport you are probably committing an offence there as well.

EFFECTS OF ACUTE EXPOSURE: TUBE CONTENTS ARE CORROSIVE TO EYES AND IRRITATING TO RESPIRATORY

TRACT AND SKIN. INHALATION OF COMBUSTION PRODUCTS WILL IRRITATE EYES, LUNGS, AND MUCOUS

MEMBRANES. HOLD SIGNAL DOWN WIND WHEN BURNING. AVOID BREATHING SMOKE, WHENEVER POSSIBLE.

I never defended nor disagreed with the use of flares. I only pointed out they have been a part of football culture for decades. 

I think a lot of you are going a bit mental though. The isolated flare throw at johnno should be punished to every extent of the law. That doesn't mean they're treated as a terrosrist for fuck sake. But they should have everything thrown at them, including but not limited to improper use of an emergency device, aiming to inflict harm on another individual, endangering a person life etc. Throw the book at them.

During games though the one thing I don't agree with is throwing flares onto the pitch. As for lighting them while in the crowd I don't really care though. If you want to risk being arrested and banned from future games that's up to you. I don't mind them within this circumstance. 

 

[belaguttman]

On 16 November 2015 at 6:44:08 PM, strider said:

 

Dylan, thank goodness I'm an old cunt

I think that we need to distinguish between smokies and flares, the risks are much higher with flares although smokies also create air quality issues. Personally I'd rather there be no flares but I can see the attraction for some. We need to accept that banning flares doesn't work, hard line policing over flares doesn't work, or at least doesn't work without making the required policing intrusive. If you look at all the effective strategies in areas of public health, most of them are a combination of eduction and harm minimisation, strategies like 'the war on drugs' are, as we all know, a spectacular failure and only marginally effective.

A good example of a harm minimisation strategy around the use of smokies and flares is a club like SK Brann. It certainly makes for a spectacular and intimidating atmosphere.

There are alternatives though, we can be spectacular for our own fans and team and intimidating to visiting teams, and nobody does it better than my all time favourite club. Of course they have an advantage of being a real club, run by members. Either of these options would produce a great atmosphere but anything would be better than last Friday.

.

Edited November 17, 2015 by belaguttman

[AntiScum]

6 hours ago, Jimmy said:

I agree. It's shamefully pathetic and they should be dealt with appropriately.

But is it really the same as shooting a gun at them? lol

How about we meet up ill launch a flare at you and well see what damage it can cause? Then you can go and have a sook once its been done.

My point being its called respect which in all honesty some people need to look up the meaning or cop a good old fashioned belting to have it instiled into them.

Edited November 17, 2015 by AntiScum
missed a point

[GreenSeater]

6 minutes ago, AntiScum said:

How about we meet up ill launch a flare at you and well see what damage it can cause? Then you can go and have a sook once its been done.

I think you need to chill out a bit mate. Nobody is suggesting flares aren't dangerous, but you're definitely overreacting. I personally am not a fan of flares due to the health and safety risks, but on the other hand I like them as they add something truly unique to a football match. I think that flares are a bad idea when the people using them are idiots like the ones that johnno crfc spoke of, however if done correctly like in the examples that belaguttman gave I don't think they would cause an issue.

[playmaker]

Can you put pot in a flare? Wonder if the active area would be louder or quieter.

At least they would be happy win or lose.

 

 

[n i k o]

36 minutes ago, AntiScum said:

How about we meet up ill launch a flare at you and well see what damage it can cause? Then you can go and have a sook once its been done.

My point being its called respect which in all honesty some people need to look up the meaning or cop a good old fashioned belting to have it instiled into them.

Wow. Be rational not emotional, and then reread what Jimmy wrote. 

[wombegongal]

I'm with Johnno here you just shouldn't have to put up with this sort of shit. It's pretty simple really it's against the law. So don't do it. It scares off potential members with young families (nearly as much as our terrible football) and gives us a bad rap in the press. As for the it's a part of the culture argument. One might say the same of work place hazing for example. Still doesn't make it the correct thing to do. If you want to light flares do it in your lounge room watching foxtel and enjoy all that pyrotechnic illumination yourself.

[kingofhearts]

Sorry but flares are cool.

If anything we need MORE Flair's in games

[thisphantomfortress]

7 hours ago, playmaker said:

Can you put pot in a flare? Wonder if the active area would be louder or quieter.

At least they would be happy win or lose.

 

 

Trust me mate win or lose no one is ever happy in our active area

[JC22]

2 hours ago, kingofhearts said:

Sorry but flares are cool.

If anything we need MORE Flair's in games

 

[benzema23]

19 hours ago, johnno cpfc said:

Let me just add to your comments Benzema23, I left the game early as i had to catch a train early for reasons which do not concern any one on this forum. We walked across the footbridge to the G and on walking around the G on the concourse we were greeted by the early leaving so called Active supporters who were on the lower level near Brunton Ave, they were singing loudly about how great City are which is their right but suddenly a FLARE was hurled at us, narrowly missing my wife and i so i picked it up and hurled it back. Suddenly we had a couple of louts from that crowd running up the steps at us, the leader of which shouted that i was an idiot for throwing the flare at them i mearly pointed out to this yob that if they throw them at me i will throw them back. it seem he was most upset that someone should throw a flare at them, heaven forbid.I think it is worth pointing out that most of that group were wearing black a few were wearing club tops all of them were somewhat well oiled so were feeling very brave enough to try an attack on a 76 year old man and his 75 year old wife. If this is the type of active supporters we have then this may well be the last season ticket that we will buy, i don't have to go to watch a team of losers which is what we have at the moment as i can sit at home and if they continue to play like this at least i can switch it off. Apart from that it was situation normal, players that cannot stitch two passes together and have no cohesion whatsoever what a bunch of losers, i am absolutely disgusted. JVS HAS TO GO !!!!!

Further to the above just let me say that i have watched football both here and in the UK for nigh on 70 years and never ever have i seen anything like the flare throwing that occurred IN the stadium last Friday regardless of what happened outside later. The idiots and their followers need to be rooted out and forever barred, flares have no relationship to a game of football in any way whatsoever, they are downright dangerous, especially in the hands of complete nincompoops like Friday night. 

 My experience with attending football matches in the UK has shown me that what is needed here are sniffer dogs which can sniff the presence of exploisives (which flares are) and they, the flares,can be removed from the stadium along with the fools that bring them.

Johnno, thank you for bringing this to the attention of fellow supporters. My criticism was not levelled at any non-active supporters who left early. Actually, I specifically levelling criticism at the 'hardcore'(-looking) active fans with their black polos. I really thought that active support was for die hard fans who will support the club for each game until the last minute (which the majority did!), not for wannabe supporters who will leave en masse once their team is down. I wouldn't even have a problem with the odd active person leaving here or there because it is too painful for them.

It is shocking to hear that these gutless pricks behaved so disrespectfully towards you and your wife and it would be sad to have less supporters at the games because of the behaviour of a few dickheads. Please come back!

On the topic of flares. I am not completely against them, although the ones that burn very hot shouldn't really be used and especially not thrown onto the pitch like that. What an embarrassment for active (although the way the guy was waving it at the cops and everyone else's shocked expression did have some humour value!).  

 

[Torn Asunder]

Although flares look really cool, and I'm sure they provide plenty of  excitement amongst the active supporters when they're set off, there will never be a situation at an A-league match where flares are permitted, or legal under law.

Simply put, our Active support leaders should not encourage or condone a culture of ripping flares (illegal activity) and those who do bring them in or set them off should be held to account by the Melburnian leaders. This may be already happening, and I am not criticising the Melburnians (because I am not part of the inner workings). I am just stating a view that I believe to be in the interest of our beloved club and the game in general.

[Jimmy]

11 hours ago, AntiScum said:

How about we meet up ill launch a flare at you and well see what damage it can cause? Then you can go and have a sook once its been done.

OK deal. But I get to shoot you in the same place you hit me with a flare and then we'll compare our injuries. 

[playmaker]

You can get LED flares now.

Edited November 18, 2015 by playmaker

[strider]

56 minutes ago, playmaker said:

You can get LED flares now.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JDM-LED-Emergency-Flare-Emergency-FLASH-Signal-Light-Free-Shipping-/331643438567 

[Tonyboozeadams]

On 13 November 2015 at 11:30:50 PM, Tony999 said:

All this bickering here. Just sack JVS and even world hunger will be no longer.

Not if david Williams is around

[Jestr]

On 16 November 2015 8:20:48 pm, Shahanga said:

 

 

16 hours ago, kingofhearts said:

Sorry but flares are cool.

If anything we need MORE Flair's in games

Maybe we can develop a flare app so everyone can wave it around. No one would get burned or suk up toxic smoke. 

Worse outcome your phone battery dies

[Tonyboozeadams]

And they still get to look like a fuckwit

[mjake1234]

Well now I am not only depressed about the performance on the field I am also depressed at the performance and attitude from the sidelines.

I joined Heart just after their first year because I saw them as having a much more responsible adult approach to the game, a club that didn't have the overlay of raucous, uncooth and mindless behaviour of the other team - and generally I have been happy with my decision.

Whilst I go to games to watch Heart/City win (and god knows that there have been slim pickings) I actually go along for the entertainment and the whole experience on the day - and that most certainly does not include the use of flares (or flairs).

I am not part of active but bought a Melburnians scarf, have worn it regularly and have always considered the Melburnians (and Yarraside before them) a delight and asset to the day. I have promoted them, supported them, encouraged people to go on their marches and been proud of the addition they make to the match day experience. To now hear people on this forum, who appear to be from active, defending the use of flares and making comments like “I am not completely against them”, “I don't have a problem with flares if their (sic) lit properly by older members of the terrance (sic)”, "it's part of football culture", "only smoke and not flare” etc etc rather than decrying their use and wanting to root out the people who light them has changed my whole attitude. I will be leaving my Melburnians scarf at home in future.

I am not going to engage in the rhetoric and hyperbole as others have done (most of it due to the passion they feel on this issue) but, in my view and that of all of my friends who have attended games with me, they are highly dangerous, antisocial, ruin the experience and do nothing for the game but drive away supporters and give the media and others more ammunition to paint this lovely game as one that attracts hooligans.

Flares = immaturity, hooliganism and a total lack of consideration for your fellow supporters. Get rid of them and the fools who think its “fun”. Let them join other clubs.

And finally - a plea to Johnno cpfc – don't go because of these idiots but, if you do, completely understood. I just hope that other supporters are not also put off.

[Jimmy]

UOTYH: The danger level of a flare is so over exaggerated by the average person. People just buy into the hyperbole. If the media weren't so concerned with them no one would think twice about them. 

Edited November 18, 2015 by Jimmy

[Embee]

56 minutes ago, mjake1234 said:

Well now I am not only depressed about the performance on the field I am also depressed at the performance and attitude from the sidelines.

I joined Heart just after their first year because I saw them as having a much more responsible adult approach to the game, a club that didn't have the overlay of raucous, uncooth and mindless behaviour of the other team - and generally I have been happy with my decision.

Whilst I go to games to watch Heart/City win (and god knows that there have been slim pickings) I actually go along for the entertainment and the whole experience on the day - and that most certainly does not include the use of flares (or flairs).

I am not part of active but bought a Melburnians scarf, have worn it regularly and have always considered the Melburnians (and Yarraside before them) a delight and asset to the day. I have promoted them, supported them, encouraged people to go on their marches and been proud of the addition they make to the match day experience. To now hear people on this forum, who appear to be from active, defending the use of flares and making comments like “I am not completely against them”, “I don't have a problem with flares if their (sic) lit properly by older members of the terrance (sic)”, "it's part of football culture", "only smoke and not flare” etc etc rather than decrying their use and wanting to root out the people who light them has changed my whole attitude. I will be leaving my Melburnians scarf at home in future.

I am not going to engage in the rhetoric and hyperbole as others have done (most of it due to the passion they feel on this issue) but, in my view and that of all of my friends who have attended games with me, they are highly dangerous, antisocial, ruin the experience and do nothing for the game but drive away supporters and give the media and others more ammunition to paint this lovely game as one that attracts hooligans.

Flares = immaturity, hooliganism and a total lack of consideration for your fellow supporters. Get rid of them and the fools who think its “fun”. Let them join other clubs.

And finally - a plea to Johnno cpfc – don't go because of these idiots but, if you do, completely understood. I just hope that other supporters are not also put off.

"I am not going to engage in the rhetoric and hyperbole as others have done"

"To now hear people on this forum, who appear to be from active, defending the use of flares.....I will be leaving my Melburnians scarf at home in future"

Ok then.

 

[wombegongal]

9 minutes ago, Embee said:

"I am not going to engage in the rhetoric and hyperbole as others have done"

"To now hear people on this forum, who appear to be from active, defending the use of flares.....I will be leaving my Melburnians scarf at home in future"

Ok then.

 

I think he was talking about the potential dangers and the terrorist analogy to be fair.

[Baka1]

1 hour ago, Jimmy said:

UOTYH: The danger level of a flare is so over exaggerated by the average person. People just buy into the hyperbole. If the media weren't so concerned with them no one would think twice about them. 

This. Only time i have heard someone being injured by  flare was when  Dandy Thunder supporter shot one across the stadium into  little  kid at the VPL Grand Final a few years back. Those are the people that give flares a bad name. Theres plenty of ways to make them safe in stadiums but in all seriousness there's  no point arguing  with authorities/ ffa about it as they wont budge. 

[Jestr]

Im wearing my melbournians scarf, first to show support to people who try to run active area  

can you imagine how dull would the atmosphere be without singing and chanting.

sure, there is a dickhead element in there too however they work harder at making game experience fun. That's more than you can say about large number of the rest of the spectators who are simple fun sponge border line zombies 

 

Edited November 19, 2015 by Jestr
Correction

[bumpyknuckles]

I was walking from Richmond station to the ground last season, and in the subway some dick let off a flare.

It was choking smoke. Thankgod I didn't bring my son.

That was the most idiotic place ever to let one off. No regard to anyone else around them either.

 

[morphine]

#flaregate2015

[Ray]

3 hours ago, mjake1234 said:

Well now I am not only depressed about the performance on the field I am also depressed at the performance and attitude from the sidelines.

I joined Heart just after their first year because I saw them as having a much more responsible adult approach to the game, a club that didn't have the overlay of raucous, uncooth and mindless behaviour of the other team - and generally I have been happy with my decision.

Whilst I go to games to watch Heart/City win (and god knows that there have been slim pickings) I actually go along for the entertainment and the whole experience on the day - and that most certainly does not include the use of flares (or flairs).

I am not part of active but bought a Melburnians scarf, have worn it regularly and have always considered the Melburnians (and Yarraside before them) a delight and asset to the day. I have promoted them, supported them, encouraged people to go on their marches and been proud of the addition they make to the match day experience. To now hear people on this forum, who appear to be from active, defending the use of flares and making comments like “I am not completely against them”, “I don't have a problem with flares if their (sic) lit properly by older members of the terrance (sic)”, "it's part of football culture", "only smoke and not flare” etc etc rather than decrying their use and wanting to root out the people who light them has changed my whole attitude. I will be leaving my Melburnians scarf at home in future.

I am not going to engage in the rhetoric and hyperbole as others have done (most of it due to the passion they feel on this issue) but, in my view and that of all of my friends who have attended games with me, they are highly dangerous, antisocial, ruin the experience and do nothing for the game but drive away supporters and give the media and others more ammunition to paint this lovely game as one that attracts hooligans.

Flares = immaturity, hooliganism and a total lack of consideration for your fellow supporters. Get rid of them and the fools who think its “fun”. Let them join other clubs.

And finally - a plea to Johnno cpfc – don't go because of these idiots but, if you do, completely understood. I just hope that other supporters are not also put off.

I think you will find there are a lot of us who have your sentiments about the flares. I certainly do.

Whether we are right or not, there will be a proportion of like-minded people who will not patronise our game because they don't want their 76 year old grandfather, or daughter or mother or asthmatic friend to have to be subjected to anti-social behaviour, flares, excessive alcohol, unfair abuse of players etc.

And some on here wonder why we cannot build more membership? It's not all about poor on-field performances. I guarantee it will be that we cannot entice families to the game because the parents - usually the mother (not to be stereo-typical) who refuses to go because of the loutish behaviour.

If we want a club which condones, flare-throwing, drunken loutish behaviour to the detriment of others, then let's change our name to Melbourne Victory -Sub Branch FC. Otherwise make a stand and change the mindset of these people.

Oh? You'll leave the club instead because of our being a nanny-state club? Well go on. Love-it or leave-it!

[hedaik]

4 hours ago, Jimmy said:

UOTYH: The danger level of a flare is so over exaggerated by the average person. People just buy into the hyperbole. If the media weren't so concerned with them no one would think twice about them. 

If the media & police didn't care about them their use will go up dramatically and we will start seeing real issues. 

[morphine]

1 hour ago, Ray said:

If we want a club which condones, flare-throwing, drunken loutish behaviour to the detriment of others, then let's change our name to Melbourne Victory -Sub Branch FC. Otherwise make a stand and change the mindset of these people.

Oh? You'll leave the club instead because of our being a nanny-state club? Well go on. Love-it or leave-it!

Eh? Two completely conflicting paragraphs. The same could be said to you - if you don't like flares, well go on. Love it or leave it!

FWIW NOBODY is condoning throwing flares at old people (anyone) outside the ground. Fucking obviously. By the same token, nobody wants a nanny-state club either. Why can't it be somewhere inbetween? On a tangent - society these days pressures you to be on either polar end of the spectrum of any issue. 

[Torn Asunder]

This is the law covering flares

 

 

 

 

[Embee]

To be fair, most of our performances warrant the use of a distress signal.

[japiedog]

8 minutes ago, Embee said:

To be fair, most of our performances warrant the use of a distress signal.

I kept my nose out of this discussion

BUT , that is a great answer

 

[Alexxxandro]

Throwing flares at anyone (whatever their age) is not cool... throwing flares back and claiming that "if you throw flares at me I'll throw them back" is also not cool. That's the eye for an eye argument that leaves everyone blind. Obviously Johnny was upset because he felt it was a dangerous thing to do so he throws it back... at kids? Very immature. 

[sheepdog]

2 hours ago, Alexxxandro said:

Throwing flares at anyone (whatever their age) is not cool... throwing flares back and claiming that "if you throw flares at me I'll throw them back" is also not cool. That's the eye for an eye argument that leaves everyone blind. Obviously Johnny was upset because he felt it was a dangerous thing to do so he throws it back... at kids? Very immature. 

Surely not serious. 

With that logic, if a punch is thrown at you, you wouldn't throw one back?

Old mate johnno has more balls than all of that crew imo.

Plus he was do the chivalrous thing and protecting his lady.

[Jestr]

Johnno looks like you're old and immature 

perfect company for our night out at spearmint rhino. In case punches are thrown in...... Consider yourself invited 😄

[Alexxxandro]

4 hours ago, sheepdog said:

Surely not serious. 

With that logic, if a punch is thrown at you, you wouldn't throw one back?

Old mate johnno has more balls than all of that crew imo.

Plus he was do the chivalrous thing and protecting his lady.

Yeah I know what I wrote was not the kind of thing for a football forum but us hippy pacifists have to try and do our bit for world peace.  

 

[MHFC-FAN]

7 hours ago, Alexxxandro said:

Throwing flares at anyone (whatever their age) is not cool... throwing flares back and claiming that "if you throw flares at me I'll throw them back" is also not cool. That's the eye for an eye argument that leaves everyone blind. Obviously Johnny was upset because he felt it was a dangerous thing to do so he throws it back... at kids? Very immature. 

Yeah and having 'xxx' in your forum name is real mature...