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The JvS thread

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jw1739

jw1739

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, Shahanga said:

What frustrates me about that is the sacking of his assistants. So they are responsible for everything that went wrong, not their boss? WTF

Not sure that anyone was "sacked." Pretty sure one resigned and the other was out of contract. Correct me if I'm wrong there.

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Murfy1
Murfy1

I don't blame the players one jot for this loss. Not Gaurccio, Velaphi, Clisby or any of them. The pathetic bloody loss is 100% JVS'.   Arrogant coaching decisions, especially with the starting line

Murfy1
Murfy1

I disagree. Club administrators often point to social media to discuss the positives and growth the club has made, such as these comments by Scott Munn:     "Munn says that he and the parent

Tesla
Tesla

I've seen enough. 100% srs   Before people give me shit: The only reason we have 2 draws right now is because Villa has scored 2 goals that no one else in this league would score. We'd

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n i k o

n i k o

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Not sure that anyone was "sacked." Pretty sure one resigned and the other was out of contract. Correct me if I'm wrong there.

Whether Trani was out of contract or not, his desire is to remain in the aleague which means we got rid of him. 

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Shahanga

Shahanga

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Not sure that anyone was "sacked." Pretty sure one resigned and the other was out of contract. Correct me if I'm wrong there.

Well call it what you like.

To me if I guy doesn't have his contracted renewed when his job still needs to be done, it's the same thing. A bloke who resigns when he knows what's coming, it's the same thing.

Both these guys are well respected, apart it seems from at Melbourne City.

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belaguttman

belaguttman

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Thrillhouse said:

way too similar to liverpool, dud manager should of been sacked, instead given another off season to fuck up transfers before being shit again the next season and replaced during the season without much to play for

Liverpool has never won the Craig Foster Cup

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belaguttman

belaguttman

Posted
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2 hours ago, The Aardvark said:

Retre has improved. When JVS got the job proper the second time Retre was a cringeworthy mid who looked out of his depth. he is no star now, but he is also a capable squad player who can contribute in a few roles.

The other players I would argue have improved to various degrees under JVS are Velaphi, Mooy, Melling, Fitzgerald and Mauk, and JVS probably gets some credit for Fornaroli and Novillo (although obviously the different quality of the league helps significantly). It's not a great list but it's not all bad.

The difficulty in the assessment is not whether they have improved as there are contributions to this from the facilities and the other football department staff, rather it is whether they have improved as much as similar players in other teams or Leagues - they should be the benchmarks 

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silva10

silva10

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, hakz7 said:

I think we should question why they even gave JVS a 3-year contract in the first place.

He must have a really good agent. Even since his first stint with Heart; being the highest paid manager in the league with no prior success...

CFG would have taken the advice of the people running the club at the time. It also coincided with him coming back and having some good results at the time of the takeover.

As for not being able to afford to pay him out, I seriously doubt this is the case. If they wanted him gone he would be gone.

 

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NewConvert

NewConvert

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, silva10 said:

CFG would have taken the advice of the people running the club at the time. It also coincided with him coming back and having some good results at the time of the takeover.

As for not being able to afford to pay him out, I seriously doubt this is the case. If they wanted him gone he would be gone.

 

Silva you have been following the A-League for two seasons now. Do you think there are special challenges faced by A-League coaches not found in continental Europe? The obvious ones are the salary cap, the player cap and limited visa players but could there be there ones?

My thinking is similar to yours, if CFG had decided that JVS was not the man to take the team to silverware he would be gone. The question then becomes either that they do believe that JVS can take a team to win silverware but why would they believe that? or the alternative would be that they cannot find a suitable replacement coach and the question would be why is that? Now there would be plenty of candidates for the role right this minute but would they find a candidate acceptable to CFG? Which is why I am asking whether there may be differences that are not obvious to me because I am in the fish bowl.

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The Aardvark

The Aardvark

Posted
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18 hours ago, belaguttman said:

The difficulty in the assessment is not whether they have improved as there are contributions to this from the facilities and the other football department staff, rather it is whether they have improved as much as similar players in other teams or Leagues - they should be the benchmarks 

Yeah don't get me wrong he has been underwhelming as a developer of talent even if you don't take into account the other things our club offers now to help players improve. He could, and should be doing much better.

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jw1739

jw1739

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, NewConvert said:

Silva you have been following the A-League for two seasons now. Do you think there are special challenges faced by A-League coaches not found in continental Europe? The obvious ones are the salary cap, the player cap and limited visa players but could there be there ones?

My thinking is similar to yours, if CFG had decided that JVS was not the man to take the team to silverware he would be gone. The question then becomes either that they do believe that JVS can take a team to win silverware but why would they believe that? or the alternative would be that they cannot find a suitable replacement coach and the question would be why is that? Now there would be plenty of candidates for the role right this minute but would they find a candidate acceptable to CFG? Which is why I am asking whether there may be differences that are not obvious to me because I am in the fish bowl.

Silva, I'd like to add a couple of questions if I may. Who, if anyone, might be possibles to come from Manchester into an Assistant Coach role with Melbourne City? Or "the foreigner (whatever that means) with EPL experience"?

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Kiro Kompiro

Kiro Kompiro

Posted
Posted

he gets to stay because he was one win from the GF.  Its not unreasonable, given that he is a know quantity and therefore lower risk than an untried coach unfamiliar with the local terrain, or Gombau who didn't actually win a Grand Final and took quite a while to get the team going.

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silva10

silva10

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, NewConvert said:

Silva you have been following the A-League for two seasons now. Do you think there are special challenges faced by A-League coaches not found in continental Europe? The obvious ones are the salary cap, the player cap and limited visa players but could there be there ones?

My thinking is similar to yours, if CFG had decided that JVS was not the man to take the team to silverware he would be gone. The question then becomes either that they do believe that JVS can take a team to win silverware but why would they believe that? or the alternative would be that they cannot find a suitable replacement coach and the question would be why is that? Now there would be plenty of candidates for the role right this minute but would they find a candidate acceptable to CFG? Which is why I am asking whether there may be differences that are not obvious to me because I am in the fish bowl.

I believe all salary cap leagues are more challenging. Simply because you just can't spend what you want.

For the A League, the particular challenge in my view is the ability to retain players once they have a good season or two. The restrictions that a salary cap imposes prevents teams from being able to increase a players salary except for one or two. Also the fact that teams can't get a transfer fee from a fellow A League team is another one that prevents smaller teams from financing the buying of better players. Especially when the salary cap is as low as it is in the A League.

Every player wants to play at the highest possible level so once a team from Europe or a perceived better league comes in for them, then they will most probably decide to move on.

One way to help the quality of the A League, could be to allow 5 Australian players who are 23 or under to be funded outside the cap instead of the current 3. That way teams can try and keep the best young players in Australia for longer.

I am not convinced that CFG believe JVS can win the title. If they are keeping him on, it could be they feel it needs another season of rebuilding to get enough quality players in to the squad, before bringing in a better manager.

Personally I would rather they pay him out and appoint a new manager.

 

2 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Silva, I'd like to add a couple of questions if I may. Who, if anyone, might be possibles to come from Manchester into an Assistant Coach role with Melbourne City? Or "the foreigner (whatever that means) with EPL experience"?

I simply have no clue JW. It won't be any one connected to the first team. It could be someone from outside CFG at the moment. I am as intrigued as you are.

 

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Dylan

Dylan

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, silva10 said:

I believe all salary cap leagues are more challenging. Simply because you just can't spend what you want.

For the A League, the particular challenge in my view is the ability to retain players once they have a good season or two. The restrictions that a salary cap imposes prevents teams from being able to increase a players salary except for one or two. Also the fact that teams can't get a transfer fee from a fellow A League team is another one that prevents smaller teams from financing the buying of better players. Especially when the salary cap is as low as it is in the A League.

Every player wants to play at the highest possible level so once a team from Europe or a perceived better league comes in for them, then they will most probably decide to move on.

One way to help the quality of the A League, could be to allow 5 Australian players who are 23 or under to be funded outside the cap instead of the current 3. That way teams can try and keep the best young players in Australia for longer.

I am not convinced that CFG believe JVS can win the title. If they are keeping him on, it could be they feel it needs another season of rebuilding to get enough quality players in to the squad, before bringing in a better manager.

Personally I would rather they pay him out and appoint a new manager.

 

I simply have no clue JW. It won't be any one connected to the first team. It could be someone from outside CFG at the moment. I am as intrigued as you are.

 

Yeah I think it was ment to mean not someone from Manchester per say, but someone who CFG will send over

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Deeming

Deeming

Posted
Posted

Sounds to me like they don't want to waste the cash paying him out. They can't surely think he can win the league. If a manager can't win with multiple goal scoring record breaking they can't win it at all.

 

While many people go on about how loaded CFG are that hasn't really translated to big money being spent on players or coaches. Koren was 'only' on 900K which is a decent amount for the A-League but not a big amount for world players. They also chose not to replace Koren with another marque.

CFG would be thinking a new coach can't usually win the League in their first year (Adelaide are an anomaly). But even if they have half a season up their sleeve they are a chance. So I predict JvS to stay on and barring lading the league, he gets sacked half way through the season. That way they only lose $350k and their new coach gets half a season with the team before they start their first campaign.

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AntiScum

AntiScum

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, heart_fan10 said:

the assistant will be JVS' successor after next season no matter what. 

CFG pulled the trigger with NYC after a year and installed Viera. CFG expected to win the League and make the ACL. You have my word JVS WILL NOT BE AT MCFC next season!!!

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Deeming

Deeming

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, AntiScum said:

CFG pulled the trigger with NYC after a year and installed Viera. CFG expected to win the League and make the ACL. You have my word JVS WILL NOT BE AT MCFC next season!!!

I hope you're right but NYCFC also got Villa, Lampard, and Pirlo and we got....Koren. 

They also paid 10x the amount for them.

You can't really compare us with them.

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AntiScum

AntiScum

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, silva10 said:

Yes, but will he be at Melbourne?

 


Maybe sipping his soy latte somewhere in Melbourne but wont be MCFC

 

3 minutes ago, Deeming said:

I hope you're right but NYCFC also got Villa, Lampard, and Pirlo and we got....Koren. 

They also paid 10x the amount for them.

You can't really compare us with them.

CFG demand success, CFG gave JVS all the tools he needed and couldnt pull it off so seeya later the tanned one. CFG is a business model they gave him time and that time has passed him!!

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Falastur

Falastur

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, silva10 said:

I simply have no clue JW. It won't be any one connected to the first team. It could be someone from outside CFG at the moment. I am as intrigued as you are.

If the rumours are true that they want someone who can take over to learn the club and be there to take over from jvs when he finally goes then it could be anyone. However, I don't recall any mention in the press stories of this purported assistant manager being there to take over afterwards - from what I recall (I guess I should probably have checked first) it was just that they wanted an assistant.

If they're only hiring someone to come in to run the rule over the club and see what can be tightened up then I wonder if they might bring in Brian Kidd. I have a suspicion that Pep won't want to keep him on as the standard "PL-knowledge assistant" as he has served for Mancini and Pellegrini - it looks like he wants Arteta for that job instead. If Pep asks to move Kidd on then they either have to hand him a P45 or find him a new job. 

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Deeming

Deeming

Posted
Posted

JvS = master tactician 

Step 1) Convince CFG to payout most of Koren's contract therefore wasting $100s of thousands of dollars. 

Step 2) Keep his job no matter what. After paying our Koren, CFG is now reluctant to waste another lot of 100's of thousands of dollars paying out another contract i.e. JvS' contract.

Therfore JvS keeps his job. JvS master tactician 

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HEARTinator

HEARTinator

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, Deeming said:

JvS = master tactician 

Step 1) Convince CFG to payout most of Koren's contract therefore wasting $100s of thousands of dollars. 

Step 2) Keep his job no matter what. After paying our Koren, CFG is now reluctant to waste another lot of 100's of thousands of dollars paying out another contract i.e. JvS' contract.

Therfore JvS keeps his job. JvS master tactician 

There's something in what you say. No matter the turnover we have in players and assistants, or look at our underwhelming results compared to our resources, this guy still gets a gig. What he seems to have mastered is not so much the art of successful coaching but the art of corporate spin and deflection where for instance:--

@biancorosso7 maybe even more philosohical but Success is not final, #failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.

 

Yeah right, at some point somebody has to pull the plug on this bullshit.

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Kiro Kompiro

Kiro Kompiro

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

Lampard seems to be permanently injured. Don't think he's played a single minute for NYC so far this season. 

We were meant to get him in our first season under CFG.

In a recent interview, he rejected coming to us next season as he believed he was now too old.

Edited by Kiro Kompiro
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KSK_47

KSK_47

Posted
Posted (edited)

So i am going to try to spend this off season getting excited about the upcoming season and obviously that means coming to terms with another year of jvs. 

I still maintain that he brings nothing significant to the club at all. The argument that he is tactically competent is pretty thin in my eyes. Yes, he may have won the odd game or two because of a change in tactics or a good sub but you could say the same about pretty much any coach. His win rate and reputation for collapse tell a far more accurate story imo. And as for the youth development argument, i dont think we have produced significantly more quality youth players than any other club.

But i digress. Now that JVS has a completely clean slate to work with again (because obviously its been everyone around him thats been making him look bad all these years) and the media finally feel that he has run out of excuses, what do people feel he can do to redeem himself if anything?

My expectations are that we the leauge (and dont mean "if adelaide lose the next two and we win both, we may finish top on goal difference"- i mean comfortably win) and a dunny seat. If that were to happen and he was given another year to prove himself in the acl i probably would be ok with that. But apparently i demand too much from imported coaches who have more experience than the last two double winners combined so i am curious to see what other people think.

Edited by KSK_47
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