The JvS thread

[n i k o]

Question is, is the assistant tanned? 

[KSK_47]

21 minutes ago, playmaker said:

Not stupid at all. He is a good youth and development coach.

Much like everyone's assessment that he is a master tactician, I find this argument highly debatable at best. But we wont go there. 

I doubt he would be willing to take such a huge paycut

Plus if we are to believe the article he will be returning to his native land of Mexico

Edited May 10, 2016 by KSK_47

[n i k o]

22 minutes ago, playmaker said:

 He is a good youth and development coach. 

I see this mentioned a lot. What classifies a coach to be a good youth and development coach? If it's simply because they have given a player an opportunity to play in the first team that doesn't classify as being competent in that area. If anything it's the youth coach that they spent the majority of the time with that deserves more of the credit. 

Unless there's evidence that a coach has taken a player under his wing for considerable time from Point A and they have ended up at Point B they can't be classed as a competent youth and development coach. 

[KSK_47]

4 minutes ago, n i k o said:

I see this mentioned a lot. What classifies a coach to be a good youth and development coach? If it's simply because they have given a player an opportunity to play in the first team that doesn't classify as being competent in that area. If anything it's the youth coach that they spent the majority of the time with that deserves more of the credit. 

Unless there's evidence that a coach has taken a player under his wing for considerable time from Point A and they have ended up at Point B they can't be classed as a competent youth and development coach. 

Yeah. Even if we did develop a significant amount of good youth players (which I dont think is really the case), wouldnt that be because of the actual youth development coach?

[n i k o]

1 minute ago, KSK_47 said:

Yeah. Even if we did develop a significant amount of good youth players (which I dont think is really the case), wouldnt that be because of the actual youth development coach?

Agree. Off the top of my head the player that JVS had the most effective impact on was Behich. Went from Victory reject to playing in the Turkish league and being capped for the Socceroos. Other than that can't think of anyone else. 

[KSK_47]

Just now, n i k o said:

Agree. Off the top of my head the player that JVS had the most effective impact on was Behich. Went from Victory reject to playing in the Turkish league and being capped for the Socceroos. Other than that can't think of anyone else. 

Yes. And although i didnt/dont follow his career in Turkey closely, if i recall he only started to come good when he stopped trying to tear down the wing like he would always do under JVS

[Jovan]

Even if this was a good idea which frankly I find bizarre. Why would it be made public so soon even before pre season. 

I think this whole story needs to go over into the bullshit watch thread.

[malloy]

3 minutes ago, Jovan said:

Even if this was a good idea which frankly I find bizarre. Why would it be made public so soon even before pre season. 

I think this whole story needs to go over into the bullshit watch thread.

Hopefully JVS is saying it so when (hopefully) he is sacked next week he can make the claim that they let him go to install a longer term coach and use it to deflect comments that he was sacked because he is shit.

If only.....

[Jovan]

3 minutes ago, malloy said:

Hopefully JVS is saying it so when (hopefully) he is sacked next week he can make the claim that they let him go to install a longer term coach and use it to deflect comments that he was sacked because he is shit.

If only.....

Possibly. But instead of being sacked they may give him a sideways move within CFG. 

It's weird that this comes out when everyone's over in Europe.

[HeartOfCity]

8 minutes ago, Jovan said:

Possibly. But instead of being sacked they may give him a sideways move within CFG. 

It's weird that this comes out when everyone's over in Europe.

Maybe it comes out to let players know at City that he is gone (might be one of Brunos demands) 

[belaguttman]

2 hours ago, bellydrum said:

Melbourne City coach John van’t Schip indicates he will leave club after next season

http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/a-league/melbourne-city-coach-john-vant-schip-indicates-he-will-leave-club-after-next-season/news-story/26f43527115dda297d9a9d7da9a702cf

MELBOURNE City is planning for life after John van’t Schip, although the Dutchman will see out the final year of his contract.

The Herald Sun understands that van’t Schip has told the City board that he will not seek an extension to his contract and will return home in 2017 to be closer to his family.

 

Ahh, so JVS is off to Mexico again then.

[heart_fan10]

On 4 May 2016 at 10:47 PM, heart_fan10 said:

staying, with the new assistant to take over after next season

green line please 

[HEARTinator]

2 hours ago, KSK_47 said:

Looks like failure is fatal after all 

The plug is finally, belatedly, being pulled on the spin, deflection and bullshit 

Edited May 10, 2016 by HEARTinator

[Torn Asunder]

So we get a season long farewell celebration for JVS 😶

[Dylan]

I can't believe this club is going to waste yet another fucking season 

[KSK_47]

6 hours ago, Torn Asunder said:

So we get a season long farewell celebration for JVS 😶

I am going to need to learn how to use twitter properly

[HEARTinator]

9 hours ago, bellydrum said:

Melbourne City coach John van’t Schip indicates he will leave club after next season

http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/a-league/melbourne-city-coach-john-vant-schip-indicates-he-will-leave-club-after-next-season/news-story/26f43527115dda297d9a9d7da9a702cf

MELBOURNE City is planning for life after John van’t Schip, although the Dutchman will see out the final year of his contract.

The Herald Sun understands that van’t Schip has told the City board that he will not seek an extension to his contract and will return home in 2017 to be closer to his family.

It’s believed that City Football Group contemplated van’t Schip’s future but opted to allow him to see out the final year of his deal, despite reservations about resting key players in the FFA Cup semi-final loss to Perth Glory and the underwhelming finish to a record-breaking season.

 

If JVS has indicated that he will leave then this is similar to the classic player's tactic of saying they want to be traded and leave the club. So the club can hang on to a less than happy, half-hearted player (coach in our case) or move them on and avert tension in the dressing room. Wouldn't be surprised if CFG push JVS out the door after they finish their end of season review of our teams performance. If not then next season is finished before it starts.

[HeartOfCity]

I just dont understand how he can say he's only staying for one more year and CFG just accept it. Surely there is still shit to go under the bridge here it just does not make any sense, if he doesnt want to be part of the future then really you would have to think his heart wont be in it especially if things get tough. 

[NewConvert]

9 hours ago, Murfy1 said:

Well, at least JVS will only be at the club for 1 more season, max. And I have a feeling that if things are not going well a third or half-way into the season, then Robert Koren-style JVS could be shown the door mid-season and the replacement could take over. 

 

I'm also very surprised that JVS has survived to continue coaching next season. Especially after Trani was sacked, it is hard to appreciate the thinking behind retaining JVS. My two best guesses for the reasons they are retaining JVS are:

1). The club saves some money. If the club is supposed to stick to a strict budget, then retaining JVS saves some money. If they paid out his contract (suggested to be around $750k [which is the same salary he received when he was first signed by Melbourne Heart]), then they would have had to pay a new coach for next season as well (which could easily be at least half a million, for a reputable coach from Europe), hence paying two coaches for next season. The best outcome perhaps could be that next season JVS and the club come to a mutual agreement for him to finish his contract early, and either leave with a reduced payout or no payout

2). CFG is worried about a CFG coach failing at Melbourne City, just like how Patrick Viera has really struggled at NYCFC, obtaining just 1 win over the club's first 8 games this MLS season. Quite possibly, CFG would prefer for their replacement for JVS to serve for a period as an assistant coach to learn the ropes before he takes over as head coach, to increase the odds that his coaching stint will be a success.

 

At the end of the day, I'm still real surprised that CFG didn't replace JVS immediately. But at least wheels are in motion, and hopefully the next head coach is given every chance to be a huge unmitigated success.

I think that your second point is on the mark. I asked silva10 whether there were any major differences between coaching in the EPL and the A-League, and he couldn't think of anything that hadn't been discussed. So more than likely is that CFG are on a learning curve with regards to coaching. The idea of having a successor-in-waiting is not new but does not always work - Arnold succeeded by Moss was not a raging success. Mind you, it was always in the back of my mind that Trani was going to be the successor.

It is also quite possible that JVS and CFG have come to an agreement as to when he departs with the latest being at the end of next season. That is, if JVS/CFG/coach-in-waiting decide that the time is earlier then the transition would occur on amicable terms.

[belaguttman]

2 hours ago, HeartOfCity said:

I just dont understand how he can say he's only staying for one more year and CFG just accept it. Surely there is still shit to go under the bridge here it just does not make any sense, if he doesnt want to be part of the future then really you would have to think his heart wont be in it especially if things get tough. 

He has a contract and has said that he will see out his contract. There's nothing CFG can complain about. It's tactically astute by JVS as if we have another season like the last (or worse if the Bela Guttman rule holds true) then he will be out anyway. If by some chance we win the League (like all other 9 teams breach the salary cap) then he is in a strong bargaining position if CFG lose their sanity completely and want to retain him.

[Jovan]

2 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

He has a contract and has said that he will see out his contract. There's nothing CFG can complain about. It's tactically astute by JVS as if we have another season like the last (or worse if the Bela Guttman rule holds true) then he will be out anyway. If by some chance we win the League (like all other 9 teams breach the salary cap) then he is in a strong bargaining position if CFG lose their sanity completely and want to retain him.

As soon as few poor results occur  (which they will) he will be in an untenable situation. 

This is destined to be a massive balls up. I can't see it at any level being able to work.

[KSK_47]

35 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

He has a contract and has said that he will see out his contract. There's nothing CFG can complain about. It's tactically astute by JVS

If it is a case of JVS playing hard ball perhaps people are right and the plan is to let the new guy make the decisions but have JVS as the head coach in title only.

If CFG do this, they can deflect any fuck ups to jvs at the expense of his reputation (he is supposed to be the one in charge). And if things go well you just make the "assistant" the head coach next season and dont rehire JVS. 

Either way its not a good look for JVS. But whatever people think of him is none of his business so i suppose he wouldn't care.

[strider]

13 minutes ago, KSK_47 said:

If it is a case of JVS playing hard ball perhaps people are right and the plan is to let the new guy make the decisions but have JVS as the head coach in title only.

If CFG do this, they can deflect any fuck ups to jvs at the expense of his reputation (he is supposed to be the one in charge). And if things go well you just make the "assistant" the head coach next season and dont rehire JVS. 

Either way its not a good look for JVS. But whatever people think of him is none of his business so i suppose he wouldn't care.

tarnish my name for 750k per year and i'm a happy chap

[AntiScum]

City refused to comment on van’t Schip and all transfer matters.

Why would a club keep a coach who has no intensions of hanging around? Why would a club leave its future of rebuilding (as he called it) to someone who doesnt want to be around?

Koren did the same thing now JVS is playing hardball on his dismissal pay out.

[Deeming]

11 minutes ago, strider said:

tarnish my name for 750k per year and i'm a happy chap

you already do it for free

[Alexxxandro]

So possibly the assistant will run the show and if City win everything JVS will leave the club looking like a winner...

Just great. He does not deserve that in the slightest.

 

[KSK_47]

1 minute ago, Alexxxandro said:

So possibly the assistant will run the show and if City win everything JVS will leave the club looking like a winner...

Just great. He does not deserve that in the slightest.

The club could attribute the  clubs turnaround to the assistant when they promote him. Or just leave it and be happy he is not our problem anymore. If he gets another gig, it will become pretty clear who was the brains of the operation.

[Alexxxandro]

Just now, KSK_47 said:

The club could attribute the  clubs turnaround to the assistant when they promote him. Or just leave it and be happy he is not our problem anymore. If he gets another gig, it will become pretty clear who was the brains of the operation.

Thanks I needed that.

 

As long as it all goes to plan and this is JVS's last season then quite frankly I will enjoy it whatever the hell happens.

[kingofhearts]

6 minutes ago, Alexxxandro said:

So possibly the assistant will run the show and if City win everything JVS will leave the club looking like a winner...

Just great. He does not deserve that in the slightest.

 

As long as we win who cares.

Sure he doesn't deserve any accolades whatsoever, but lets just bring people in who know what their doing, and win shit

[raw10]

How is MCFC even going to attract new players knowing they will playing under JvS and uncertain who they will playing for next? Have CFG even thought about that? Have they not learn from their mistake with Manchester's mess? 

 

[Alexxxandro]

7 minutes ago, kingofhearts said:

As long as we win who cares.

I wont complain if we win but it will be tainted by photos of JVS holding the dunny seat. A little juvenile of me perhaps but this club doesn't really deserve mature support at this stage. The old owners were clowns but the new owners I would only rate 6/10 so far.

[KSK_47]

7 minutes ago, Alexxxandro said:

I wont complain if we win but it will be tainted by photos of JVS holding the dunny seat. A little juvenile of me perhaps but this club doesn't really deserve mature support at this stage. The old owners were clowns but the new owners I would only rate 6/10 so far.

Speaking of the old guard, if all this stuff about JVS being a dick about his contract is true and CFG were acting on the advice of people who work at the club, i suspect there are a few familiar faces getting quite the talking to in Manchester right now

[jw1739]

CFG is learning just like any big organization does when it enters a new market. It will get some things right and some things wrong. I know many of us are frustrated, but it's worthwhile to have a look at the extent of its activities. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_Football_Group It's also worth reminding ourselves that some of the things that CFG wanted to do here in Melbourne, and no doubt thought they could under the rules, have been frustrated by the actions of FFA.

 

[KSK_47]

28 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

CFG is learning just like any big organization does when it enters a new market. It will get some things right and some things wrong. I know many of us are frustrated, but it's worthwhile to have a look at the extent of its activities. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_Football_Group It's also worth reminding ourselves that some of the things that CFG wanted to do here in Melbourne, and no doubt thought they could under the rules, have been frustrated by the actions of FFA.

 

Absolutely. I cant talk for everyone else, but for me the biggest frustration with this club is that the same people keep making the same mistakes and there doses not seem to be any accountability. We just do the same thing and never learn.

Even if things dont happen immediately, i am just happy to be reassured that things are progressing and changes are being made, even if (especially if) it upsets some of the people who have been in charge for a long time.

So to hear news like this suggests that they are being ruthless as is needed and even though things may take time to implement, we are getting rid of the dead wood off the park

[GreenSeater]

I can't believe this bloke is going to leave this club twice and both times it's been by his own choice...

[playmaker]

JVS's problem is senior player management, amongst other problems, I would assume the assistant would be moulded/ hand picked from the more mature euro leagues to better manage the senior list. Also the fact that the new assistant/future coach would be groomed by CFG so will only bring the CFC way to MelbCFC, rather than adopting some of the destructive aspects inherited from the Melb Heart days

I think this is the last phase of the switch over to the CFG way hence the high turnover in players and staff.

Can't see JVS staying tbh, but if he is does, it will be more to develop his own skills more than anything and in light of this it could very well be a harmonious stay.

[AntiScum]

Anyone else find it amusing that JVS the week before the GF came out said he wants to keen rebuilding the squad and less than a week later his come out and said its his last year? I think his had the news broken to him and his come out publicly to say he wont walk without his full contract being paid

[belaguttman]

8 hours ago, Jovan said:

As soon as few poor results occur  (which they will) he will be in an untenable situation. 

This is destined to be a massive balls up. I can't see it at any level being able to work.

Let's hope, but this guy is the Dutch Houdini

[KSK_47]

3 hours ago, AntiScum said:

Anyone else find it amusing that JVS the week before the GF came out said he wants to keen rebuilding the squad and less than a week later his come out and said its his last year? I think his had the news broken to him and his come out publicly to say he wont walk without his full contract being paid

Haha. Yeah certainly paints a different picture to his "we were happy to continue together" comment

[Tony999]

Guess what time it is tomorrow boys? If tomorrow's Thursday 10am doesn't delivery the news then l have accepted the fact this puppetry has survived another season with us.