Unpopular Opinions That You Have.

[Tesla]

UOTYH : Footballers are not overpaid.

In fact, you could make a very strong argument that, in general,  they are underpaid.

[NewConvert]

9 hours ago, Tesla said:

UOTYH : Footballers are not overpaid.

In fact, you could make a very strong argument that, in general,  they are underpaid.

Is that A-League footballers? or AFL? or EPL? or anyone in general?

[Tesla]

3 hours ago, NewConvert said:

Is that A-League footballers? or AFL? or EPL? or anyone in general?

Professional soccer players in general.

Though, since you mention it, in the AFL they are even more underpaid than in soccer in general. Actually, NFL, NBA, NFL, etc all highly underpaid too.

Dunno why cunts complain about the pay of sports people, should be complaining about the overpaid unionised trades etc. 

Edited December 29, 2016 by Tesla

[n i k o]

13 hours ago, Tesla said:

UOTYH : Footballers are not overpaid.

In fact, you could make a very strong argument that, in general,  they are underpaid.

Well first and foremost reason is that the majority of people wouldn't be able to put in the work load, effort and time to reach such a level because most people especially in western culture are lazy as fuck. 

[jw1739]

7 minutes ago, n i k o said:

Well first and foremost reason is that the majority of people wouldn't be able to put in the work load, effort and time to reach such a level because most people especially in western culture are lazy as fuck. 

Oooh, that's a pretty savage generalization that I'd be surprised if you can substantiate. I agree that there do seem to be plenty of people in Australia who have a "sense of entitlement" to social welfare etc. etc., but I'd be cautious about extending that to "laziness" right across "western culture" (whatever that really is). 

[n i k o]

20 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Oooh, that's a pretty savage generalization that I'd be surprised if you can substantiate. I agree that there do seem to be plenty of people in Australia who have a "sense of entitlement" to social welfare etc. etc., but I'd be cautious about extending that to "laziness" right across "western culture" (whatever that really is). 

That's why it's in this thread jw. 

A sense of entitlement is only a small part of it. My main point is the majority of people are relatively comfortable in their own little world. The life of a top athlete requires a dedication and commitment from a young age that most people wouldn't ever experience in their entire life. It requires putting the body through extreme conditions day in day out. It requires a desire and mental dedication so great, something majority of people wouldn't ever experience in their lives. This isn't to say people in their own right don't work hard in their given field of work. However the majority of people would be too lazy to want to go through the rigours of what a top level athlete has gone through. It's so much easier (and I use that word loosely) to study and get a good job and earn a nice comfortable living. In the most positive sense that's the consequence of living in a western culture. And there absolutely nothing wrong with that. 

Edited December 30, 2016 by n i k o

[jw1739]

2 hours ago, n i k o said:

That's why it's in this thread jw. 

A sense of entitlement is only a small part of it. My main point is the majority of people are relatively comfortable in their own little world. The life of a top athlete requires a dedication and commitment from a young age that most people wouldn't ever experience in their entire life. It requires putting the body through extreme conditions day in day out. It requires a desire and mental dedication so great, something majority of people wouldn't ever experience in their lives. This isn't to say people in their own right don't work hard in their given field of work. However the majority of people would be too lazy to want to go through the rigours of what a top level athlete has gone through. It's so much easier (and I use that word loosely) to study and get a good job and earn a nice comfortable living. In the most positive sense that's the consequence of living in a western culture. And there absolutely nothing wrong with that. 

I guess I'm arguing the semantics of your use of the word "lazy." I don't think someone is "lazy" just because they're smart enough to work out that the reward/exertion/dedication equation for various occupations makes those occupations not worth pursuing.

[NewConvert]

4 hours ago, Tesla said:

Professional soccer players in general.

Though, since you mention it, in the AFL they are even more underpaid than in soccer in general. Actually, NFL, NBA, NFL, etc all highly underpaid too.

Dunno why cunts complain about the pay of sports people, should be complaining about the overpaid unionised trades etc. 

I don't know about underpaid but professional sports is the one area where the profit/loss statement is pretty close to the mark. I remember that about 15 years ago (give or take 5) there was a startup in the UK that paid too much for the rights to broadcast the Championship and League 1 because they felt there was an audience willing to pay a premium to watch these leagues. They were wrong and they went bust. Sadly, quite a few clubs had gone on an expansion spree expecting the money to come through, so when that didn't happen the clubs either went bust or made massive cutbacks dropping back to league 2 or even 3.

So the broadcasting rights bolster the pay packet of the players and so far the broadcasters that have survived indicate to me that they are about right.

Also the beauty of sport is that if a player is getting overpaid and they are not performing the fans know about it as does the club and competitors. To me, Koren was one of many examples that this club can demonstrate as an overpaid player and we knew it. Yes, he probably shouldn't have been paid out but that is contract law. JVS is an example of an overpaid  coach.

 

[NewConvert]

4 hours ago, n i k o said:

Well first and foremost reason is that the majority of people wouldn't be able to put in the work load, effort and time to reach such a level because most people especially in western culture are lazy as fuck. 

Good to know that you have no room for talent in your squad. It all boils down to just getting up at 4am every day and maintaining a good diet.

As for me, not even a battalion of Stephen Danks  would have made me reach NPL levels.

 

[hakz7]

11 hours ago, Tesla said:

Professional soccer players in general.

Though, since you mention it, in the AFL they are even more underpaid than in soccer in general. Actually, NFL, NBA, NFL, etc all highly underpaid too.

Dunno why cunts complain about the pay of sports people, should be complaining about the overpaid unionised trades etc. 

Lol kickers make 1-3 million dollars a year for a total of 5 minutes of play each week for 5 months.

[n i k o]

8 hours ago, jw1739 said:

I guess I'm arguing the semantics of your use of the word "lazy." I don't think someone is "lazy" just because they're smart enough to work out that the reward/exertion/dedication equation for various occupations makes those occupations not worth pursuing.

Your prob right, wrong word to use there. 

[GreenSeater]

2 hours ago, hakz7 said:

Lol kickers make 1-3 million dollars a year for a total of 5 minutes of play each week for 5 months.

Would probably have to be the best job in the entire world if you're good enough to get it. Not a whole lot of work, a lot less likely to get clattered by giant defenders, get paid a mint, be famous, have a higher than average chance of being the team hero. Fuck I wish I hadn't been born with pipe cleaners for legs

[Jovan]

7 hours ago, GreenSeater said:

Would probably have to be the best job in the entire world if you're good enough to get it. Not a whole lot of work, a lot less likely to get clattered by giant defenders, get paid a mint, be famous, have a higher than average chance of being the team hero. Fuck I wish I hadn't been born with pipe cleaners for legs

But a couple fuckups and your quickly replaced. Then your cooked, not like you can slot into left back for a couple seasons. 

[Tesla]

The problem is you all, and the vast majority of people in society, are arrogant fuckwits who think you are able to determine what people should be paid.

Not me though, I understand that such determinations are outside the reach of meagre mortals.

However, I can tell you that, simply by the existence and size of transfer fees that soccer players must be underpaid. If a player was paid a salary equal to his value, why would a team also pay a transfer fee for him? They wouldn't. The intuition is there too of course, players cant just change team when they want in order to receive an appropriate salary, unless theyre out of contract, so this restriction in the movement of players is obviously going to lead to them being underpaid. And that is confirmed by the fact that players who are out of contract command a larger salary than the same player if he was under contract elsewhere as a transfer fee would have to be paid too.

As for salary capped leagues in soccer or other spots, well thats pretty much self explanatory, the players pay is cap so by definition they are underpaid.

[jw1739]

1 hour ago, Tesla said:

The problem is you all, and the vast majority of people in society, are arrogant fuckwits who think you are able to determine what people should be paid.

Not me though, I understand that such determinations are outside the reach of meagre mortals.

However, I can tell you that, simply by the existence and size of transfer fees that soccer players must be underpaid. If a player was paid a salary equal to his value, why would a team also pay a transfer fee for him? They wouldn't. The intuition is there too of course, players cant just change team when they want in order to receive an appropriate salary, unless theyre out of contract, so this restriction in the movement of players is obviously going to lead to them being underpaid. And that is confirmed by the fact that players who are out of contract command a larger salary than the same player if he was under contract elsewhere as a transfer fee would have to be paid too.

As for salary capped leagues in soccer or other spots, well thats pretty much self explanatory, the players pay is cap so by definition they are underpaid.

As a "meagre mortal" (I think you mean "mere mortal"?) I'm sufficiently ignorant to think that a transfer fee is paid to the owner of the player's contract, i.e. the club he plays for, as compensation for the loss of the player when he goes to the other club.

Edited December 31, 2016 by jw1739

[NewConvert]

4 hours ago, Tesla said:

The problem is you all, and the vast majority of people in society, are arrogant fuckwits who think you are able to determine what people should be paid.

Not me though, I understand that such determinations are outside the reach of meagre mortals.

However, I can tell you that, simply by the existence and size of transfer fees that soccer players must be underpaid. If a player was paid a salary equal to his value, why would a team also pay a transfer fee for him? They wouldn't. The intuition is there too of course, players cant just change team when they want in order to receive an appropriate salary, unless theyre out of contract, so this restriction in the movement of players is obviously going to lead to them being underpaid. And that is confirmed by the fact that players who are out of contract command a larger salary than the same player if he was under contract elsewhere as a transfer fee would have to be paid too.

As for salary capped leagues in soccer or other spots, well thats pretty much self explanatory, the players pay is cap so by definition they are underpaid.

So how would you classify that a contract has to be paid out if the player is not performing? Again using Koren as an example, should have been sacked for non-performance but his contract stipulated that he be paid out.

As for your reasoning that a team would not pay transfer fee this could be construed as compensation for training and education. It also compensates the vendor club for the contractual costs.

Also a contract is not necessarily a government mandated requirement. Contracts are entered all the time between private parties. And contracts ensure that both parties deliver what they are meant to deliver at an agreed price. Of course if a player undervalues themselves that is their problem and a win for the club. Conversely, if a club overpays a player then it is a win for the player.

Actually, going by the tone of your thread, I swear that you are advocating for players to unionise themselves so they can get a better deal.

[kingofhearts]

UOTIH: I don't understand the appeal behind ufc. It just looks like a shitty rip off of boxing to me.

All their 'marquee' fights too only seem to last half a round, what a waste of money.

[Tesla]

9 hours ago, jw1739 said:

As a "meagre mortal" (I think you mean "mere mortal"?) I'm sufficiently ignorant to think that a transfer fee is paid to the owner of the player's contract, i.e. the club he plays for, as compensation for the loss of the player when he goes to the other club.

Everything you've said is correct (including 'mere'), but it doesn't change what I've said. Fifa rules don't allow players to play for another team until they're released from their current team, and that restriction in their ability to switch teams leads to them being underpaid. 

It doesn't mean I disagree with it, in fact I think soccer has the best system in terms of transfers etc of any sport IMO. 

[mattyh001]

5 hours ago, kingofhearts said:

UOTIH: I don't understand the appeal behind ufc. It just looks like a shitty rip off of boxing to me.

All their 'marquee' fights too only seem to last half a round, what a waste of money.

It's funny seeing where the sport is now as opposed to 20-25 years ago when it all started.

The lure back then was that you got guys who specialised in just one (two at best) martial arts. So it was quite literally THE way to test boxers against wrestlers against muay thai, karate etc etc.

The big difference these days is to see how a guy with an excellent ground game / decent stand up goes a guy who can wrestle a bit but has iron fists.  

I love the shit having done a little jiu jitzu a while back. Really enjoy seeing all the application of techniques and how a bloke set up a trap for submission where the opponent might see it coming but has little they can do because the bloke setting the trap has three or four out's for alternate submissions. Big big game of cat and mouse

[NewConvert]

8 hours ago, mattyh001 said:

It's funny seeing where the sport is now as opposed to 20-25 years ago when it all started.

The lure back then was that you got guys who specialised in just one (two at best) martial arts. So it was quite literally THE way to test boxers against wrestlers against muay thai, karate etc etc.

The big difference these days is to see how a guy with an excellent ground game / decent stand up goes a guy who can wrestle a bit but has iron fists.  

I love the shit having done a little jiu jitzu a while back. Really enjoy seeing all the application of techniques and how a bloke set up a trap for submission where the opponent might see it coming but has little they can do because the bloke setting the trap has three or four out's for alternate submissions. Big big game of cat and mouse

Here you described 9 A-League clubs and people on his forum who support Melbourne City, the 10th club.

[mattyh001]

On 01/01/2017 at 8:12 AM, NewConvert said:

Here you described JVS and people  who support Melbourne City.

True. Just as applicable thou when talking about a certain manager. Just when we think things can't get any worse / more baffling 😒

[thisphantomfortress]

UOTIH: The changes to the sperm donor laws giving the details of all donors whether they consented or not to the children is morally reprehensible. These people made a generous donation (hehe get it out now you childish cunts) the last thing I'd want is some kid rocking up at my door saying "daddy"

They gave under the guise of anonymity and now the government decides to change the rules of the game.

FWIW I've never donated myself 

[haz]

31 minutes ago, thisphantomfortress said:

UOTIH: The changes to the sperm donor laws giving the details of all donors whether they consented or not to the children is morally reprehensible. These people made a generous donation (hehe get it out now you childish cunts) the last thing I'd want is some kid rocking up at my door saying "daddy"

They gave under the guise of anonymity and now the government decides to change the rules of the game.

FWIW I've never donated myself 

 

[thisphantomfortress]

This thread needs more love and being recently single I got a lot of thinking time.

uotih; the Sydney gay and lesbian mardi gra is one of (if not the) biggest cultural events in Australia.

[GreenSeater]

Here we go I'm going for a big one. 

UOTIH: I hope we don't win the league this year. There I said it. Why? Two words, Tim Cahill. Don't get me wrong, I bloody love Timmy. I constantly defend him on this forum. But the fact that the FFA's "guest marquee" rule was designed specifically to only allow us to sign Cahill is just plain wrong. The way they've knocked back other clubs from using it and the fact they're planning on removing it as a rule next year shows how much of a joke it is. We have a completely unfair advantage over every other team in the league and I think winning the league with that would make it feel hollow. To be perfectly honest, as great a night as it was and as happy as it made me, I personally think I will always see our FFA Cup win as tainted for the exact same reason.

[Baka1]

2 hours ago, thisphantomfortress said:

This thread needs more love and being recently single I got a lot of thinking time.

uotih; the Sydney gay and lesbian mardi gra is one of (if not the) biggest cultural events in Australia.

Lonsdale Street Greek festival is the biggest re

[Shahanga]

6 hours ago, GreenSeater said:

Here we go I'm going for a big one. 

UOTIH: I hope we don't win the league this year. There I said it. Why? Two words, Tim Cahill. Don't get me wrong, I bloody love Timmy. I constantly defend him on this forum. But the fact that the FFA's "guest marquee" rule was designed specifically to only allow us to sign Cahill is just plain wrong. The way they've knocked back other clubs from using it and the fact they're planning on removing it as a rule next year shows how much of a joke it is. We have a completely unfair advantage over every other team in the league and I think winning the league with that would make it feel hollow. To be perfectly honest, as great a night as it was and as happy as it made me, I personally think I will always see our FFA Cup win as tainted for the exact same reason.

But anyone could have signed Timmy. We are just the only club that made him an offer. 

Also there was an opportunity for other clubs to sign high profile players but they didn't want to (tards wanted to sign a quality, but low profile player, clearly not what was on offer).

i don't see the problem but you needn't worry, we aren't going to win the dunny seat.

[bt50]

2 hours ago, Shahanga said:

But anyone could have signed Timmy. We are just the only club that made him an offer. 

Also there was an opportunity for other clubs to sign high profile players but they didn't want to (tards wanted to sign a quality, but low profile player, clearly not what was on offer).

i don't see the problem but you needn't worry, we aren't going to win the dunny seat.

Pretty much this.

The whole knocking back of other clubs applications whinging annoys me a bit because so far they've approved exactly the players that will actually carry weight amongst the Australian sporting public (Cahill, Essein), and knocked back those that wouldnt (Diamante, Pandev). Certainly the latter two prob would have been better players, but thats not what the rule was designed for. It was designed for maximum exposure to the crowded sporting landscape from a pure bums on seats/eyeballs on screens POV.

[Hellenic Hero]

UOTYH: You actually see your mates more when you have a girlfriend than when you are single.

[cadete]

1 hour ago, Hellenic Hero said:

UOTYH: You actually see your mates more when you have a girlfriend than when you are single.

I think the term "girlfriend" is too broad to make such a comment, because it does not take into account a person's age, their girlfriend's age or the relationship's age...

[Tesla]

4 hours ago, bt50 said:

Pandev

1. How the fuck did I miss this?

2. In all honesty this one should have been allowed.

[bt50]

1 minute ago, Tesla said:

1. How the fuck did I miss this?

2. In all honesty this one should have been allowed.

WSW apparently inquired although the article suggested there was salary cap issues, which suggests they might not have even applied for a guest marquee. Still, thought it was worth mentioning.

[Tesla]

1 minute ago, bt50 said:

WSW apparently inquired although the article suggested there was salary cap issues, which suggests they might not have even applied for a guest marquee. Still, thought it was worth mentioning.

Surprised you could get him under salary cap, no brainer for almost any club. Should have signed him to a new Wollongong club, easy top attendances in the league.

[bt50]

3 minutes ago, Tesla said:

Surprised you could get him under salary cap, no brainer for almost any club. Should have signed him to a new Wollongong club, easy top attendances in the league.

Yeh i doubt it either, he's a genuine marquee for mine so I reckon the journo was off the mark.

Re attendances, you reckon? I dont think most punters would have a clue who he is. But perhaps Melbourne has a massive Macedonian community just waiting to be tapped into...

[Shahanga]

4 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Yeh i doubt it either, he's a genuine marquee for mine so I reckon the journo was off the mark.

Re attendances, you reckon? I dont think most punters would have a clue who he is. But perhaps Melbourne has a massive Macedonian community just waiting to be tapped into...

Who is he?

[bt50]

Just now, Shahanga said:

Who is he?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goran_Pandev

[Tesla]

13 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Yeh i doubt it either, he's a genuine marquee for mine so I reckon the journo was off the mark.

Re attendances, you reckon? I dont think most punters would have a clue who he is. But perhaps Melbourne has a massive Macedonian community just waiting to be tapped into...

Yeah there is no chance he is under salary cap, may have been one of their current marquees they were trying to bring under cap to make him marquee. 

We joke about the 'player can will bring the whatever community to games', but this would probably be one of the few legitimate examples. Think there is 20k+ in Melbourne, but somewhere like Newcastle would be more in terms of % of population and if you could get another 1000 through the gates there its a big deal (assuming they could afford him). Especially with a smaller community it's more tight knit so game 1 could be a lot. Worth a look if Newcastle have ambitions of being more than a bottom team forever. 

Edited March 3, 2017 by Tesla

[Tesla]

18 minutes ago, Shahanga said:

Who is he?

Nice bait 

[hakz7]

2 hours ago, Tesla said:

1. How the fuck did I miss this?

2. In all honesty this one should have been allowed.

Did absolutely fuck all at Galatasaray.

[Shahanga]

4 hours ago, Tesla said:

Nice bait 

Yeah it kind of was, but I didn't actually know who he was.

When this happens (which it does a lot) I normally google the guy, but CBF this time and wanted to make the point that a lot of people wouldn't have any idea about him (which has nothing to do with whether he can play or not).