The JvS thread

[KSK_47]

And honestly man. I am not having a go at you. We love a well thought out debate on here particularly when it comes to jvs. But before you begin please be sure to read this thread from start to finish (keeping in mind this thread was started when we were city and does not cover his time at heart) as i think it will have alreday covered many of the points you will want to bring up. Please educate us.

Edited December 1, 2016 by KSK_47

[Donald]

1 hour ago, KSK_47 said:

If you go back and read this thread from start to finsih you will notice a clear change in attitude. Its starts with "Well I dont see the fuss about JVS but if he can get us playing good football and winning I dont mind" but quickly turns to "I hate this guy and want him gone". The reasons vary from his comments about the FFA cup being a "pre-season hit out" and fielding a youth squad against Perth to his complete over site of our defensive structure (as well as many many more).

We are all ecstatic about our cup win. Its great. But I have said from the start that regardless of what happens this season I dont want JVS to be our manager. Not all of us applaud every aspect of this club like pavlovs dog. If we see something that we feel needs to be improved we say it. Yes this thread has got to the point where we are clutching at straws, but it is more out of frustration with the amount of excuses and chances JVS has been given more than anything else.

If you feel JVS is a capable manager and deserves to stay on please let me know why. I would love to hear what reasonable arguments in his favour you have

 

 

 

You didnt answer the question. Where have you been for the last 7 years? You have sat through every one of JVS's games both Heart and city and you still feel he is getting a raw deal? If you hate losing so much why are you sticking up for a coach that has an appalling win percentage?

I've been here for the last 7 years. I just haven't been posting on a forum read by a small % of people. I've also met people connected to the club and people who are just supporters like all of us and we have argued, discussed, questioned everything about a new (lets me honest - we are still very young) professional sporting club and the trials in trying to break into a very established market. One thing that proved to be a common thread was stability throughout the organization. This has happened to us. But I also understand the thought that it's good to turn things over to try new things and this can also generate positive results. I get it - I just don't think its the right thing for this club.

[Donald]

1 hour ago, KSK_47 said:

And honestly man. I am not having a go at you. We love a well thought out debate on here particularly when it comes to jvs. But before you begin please be sure to read this thread from start to finish (keeping in mind this thread was started when we were city and does not cover his time at heart) as i think it will have alreday covered many of the points you will want to bring up. Please educate us.

Cheers mate. I actually feel better this morning after getting my rant off my chest! Believe me I have read the entire thread and have been monitoring it on and off. I'm obviously not a forum sort of guy and may be a bit older than others on here (??) and fully expect to be laughed at for signing up and sticking my head up. And maybe i'm biased slightly by the personal side of the discussion but I think this helps to balance the ruthlessness of the industry. The pure football based analysis I take on board and actually learn from. The "i've heard from a reliable source that he is nothing but a puppet for TCG and has photo's of x so that's the only reason he has the job still" type of arguments rile me up. But I'm being sucked into a forum with postings from all sort of people. The nit picking out of a 1 second TV image of him not doing something to support an argument is laughable. Or in my case rantable!

[KSK_47]

1 hour ago, Donald said:

Cheers mate. I actually feel better this morning after getting my rant off my chest! Believe me I have read the entire thread and have been monitoring it on and off. I'm obviously not a forum sort of guy and may be a bit older than others on here (??) and fully expect to be laughed at for signing up and sticking my head up. And maybe i'm biased slightly by the personal side of the discussion but I think this helps to balance the ruthlessness of the industry. The pure football based analysis I take on board and actually learn from. The "i've heard from a reliable source that he is nothing but a puppet for TCG and has photo's of x so that's the only reason he has the job still" type of arguments rile me up. But I'm being sucked into a forum with postings from all sort of people. The nit picking out of a 1 second TV image of him not doing something to support an argument is laughable. Or in my case rantable!

Well thanks for your input albeit somewhat ironically to call us uneducated keyboard warriors and to not really be able to explain how you are any different.

The personal side of this debate is completely irrelevant as the "he is a good bloke so go easy on him" mentality is exactly how we ended up with aloisi for so long.

My observation was really nothing serious. As mentioned we have long stopped using stats and facts to argue our point about jvs because people like you dont seem to deem them important so we have resorted to wild tabloid style speculation in frustration.

That said i honestly hope that you do continue to post on the forum. As a different point of view is always a good thing.

 

Edited December 1, 2016 by KSK_47

[NewConvert]

2 hours ago, Donald said:

Cheers mate. I actually feel better this morning after getting my rant off my chest! Believe me I have read the entire thread and have been monitoring it on and off. I'm obviously not a forum sort of guy and may be a bit older than others on here (??) and fully expect to be laughed at for signing up and sticking my head up. And maybe i'm biased slightly by the personal side of the discussion but I think this helps to balance the ruthlessness of the industry. The pure football based analysis I take on board and actually learn from. The "i've heard from a reliable source that he is nothing but a puppet for TCG and has photo's of x so that's the only reason he has the job still" type of arguments rile me up. But I'm being sucked into a forum with postings from all sort of people. The nit picking out of a 1 second TV image of him not doing something to support an argument is laughable. Or in my case rantable!

No. There are quite a few people on the older age bracket and after a while you develop a sardonic smile as you read that the young ones start whingeing about today's music. Keep on posting/ranting - it will help whittle away our incredibly long off season.

[Alexxxandro]

8 hours ago, KSK_47 said:

 As a different point of view is always a good thing.

 

I think that we should get JA back. After all, he had Misfud not Bruno. Deserves another chance with a decent squad.

[KSK_47]

13 minutes ago, Alexxxandro said:

I think that we should get JA back. After all, he had Misfud not Bruno. Deserves another chance with a decent squad.

Needed more time too lol

[wombegongal]

Member when KSK got in an argument on the city forums.

 

I member.

[kingofhearts]

I wonder if people like doland would've made an account and made his post if we lost on Wednesday hmmm....

[malloy]

53 minutes ago, wombegongal said:

Member when KSK got in an argument on the city forums.

 

I member.

Pepperidge Farm remembers...

[KSK_47]

2 hours ago, wombegongal said:

Member when KSK got in an argument on the city forums.

 

I member.

Remember? I thought that's all i did on here

[Donald]

2 hours ago, kingofhearts said:

I wonder if people like doland would've made an account and made his post if we lost on Wednesday hmmm....

Probably not due to the win being the catalyst for my rant. And your point is? 

[playmaker]

52 minutes ago, Donald said:

Probably not due to the win being the catalyst for my rant. And your point is? 

Some people don't like the fact that he is our only successful manager, maybe they would have been happier if we lost so they could hate on him some more to back up their opinions.

I have been an optimistic critic and have my reservations about his outright ability on many levels, but he was a part of the whole that got us our first real success, like him or hate him you can't argue with that fact.

Well done to him.

Edited December 2, 2016 by playmaker

[MHFC-FAN]

2 hours ago, playmaker said:

Some people don't like the fact that he is our only successful manager, maybe they would have been happier if we lost so they could hate on him some more to back up their opinions.

I have been an optimistic critic and have my reservations about his outright ability on many levels, but he was a part of the whole that got us our first real success, like him or hate him you can't argue with that fact.

Well done to him.

You make it sound like we've had half a dozen managers. It's not hard to be "our most successful manager" when he's only competition was Lossoisi...

I think with the squad we have this season any coach could win the cup let alone the league.

[n i k o]

3 hours ago, Donald said:

Probably not due to the win being the catalyst for my rant. And your point is? 

The point is you wouldn't have had your rant had we lost. The reason you wouldn't have come on here is that your argument would have been baseless because JVS has no history of winning anything or even coming close to it. Now that he has won something you have a very thin base for argument, albeit this base has only existed for two days. You feel this is evidence enough to prove JVS is now all of a sudden a competent manager and that everyone should also be positive about his tenure like yourself.

The best judge of a manager is his performances over the course of a season. Obviously he contributed to some degree to our FFA cup win, with one of the best squads put together mind you. I'm happy for him, I'm ecstatic with the result but just with regard to JVS I'll be impressed when he takes us to a title at the end of a season. 

[Kinnibari]

Just heard the people around me cheering JVS. Never thought I'd see the day.

[jeffplz]

All I wanted for a manager was a hard cunt who can win trophies. If he transforms then it's okay for me

[KSK_47]

Just now, jeffplz said:

All I wanted for a manager was a hard cunt who can win trophies. If he transforms then it's okay for me

I am far from convinced jvs is who we need, but i have been saying the same thing since page one of this thread. 

Win and dont be boring and i am happy. I dont care who is in charge.

[playmaker]

2 wins, a draw and silverware in 6 days. Can't ask much more than that. Only criticism is he should have made his last two subs shortly after the goal.

Good job JVS.

Edited December 3, 2016 by playmaker

[Tony999]

JVS was itching for a punch on with the Roar bench. JVS and Bambi didn't even shake hands unless l missed it?

[malloy]

1 minute ago, Tony999 said:

JVS was itching for a punch on with the Roar bench. JVS and Bambi didn't even shake hands unless l missed it?

When we scored everyone around the Roar bench were getting stuck into the Aloisi brothers. 

[KSK_47]

28 minutes ago, Tony999 said:

JVS was itching for a punch on with the Roar bench. JVS and Bambi didn't even shake hands unless l missed it?

They eventually did but you could tell it was more because they wanted to remain professional

[n i k o]

Only thing missing was Caceras volley off Bruno's rabona to go in. Chants were fantastic and giving Aloisi stick was fucking satisfying. Bouzanis giving it to Aloisi was the best moment of the game. 

[JC22]

33 minutes ago, n i k o said:

Only thing missing was Caceras volley off Bruno's rabona to go in. Chants were fantastic and giving Aloisi stick was fucking satisfying. Bouzanis giving it to Aloisi was the best moment of the game. 

Christ that would have been some goal.

[moops]

He seems different this year, I have never seen him so vocal on the ground or the media. It's good to see and a bit of a surprise, but good on him.

[malloy]

29 minutes ago, moops said:

He seems different this year, I have never seen him so vocal on the ground or the media. It's good to see and a bit of a surprise, but good on him.

Its been more so in the last 4 matches. he started the season off quiet with Valkanis being the more vocal. Now he seems to spend most of the game standing up and yelling a fair bit.

[KSK_47]

1 hour ago, moops said:

He seems different this year, I have never seen him so vocal on the ground or the media. It's good to see and a bit of a surprise, but good on him.

We have seen these types of positive "changes" in jvs before though. Unfortunately they only seemed to last as long as there was pressure on him. Once he was safe all the old crap returned. 

Edited December 5, 2016 by KSK_47

[n i k o]

1 hour ago, KSK_47 said:

We have seen these types of positive "changes" in jvs before though. Unfortunately they only seemed to last as long as there was pressure on him. Once he was safe all the old crap returned. 

Exactly this. Similar to his pissed off winning spree last season. He cracked the shits, started dropping and rotating players and we went on a great run. Eventually his personality came through where the pressure was off and he went soft (IMO) and we dropped off significantly at the end of the season. 

[Torn Asunder]

So maybe he's worked out that our current crop of players respond well to a fired up manager. About time there was a bit of fire being rained down from the sidelines ... It should always mean something to pull on the City strip and play for the club, especially at home. The derby isn't the only game where emotions runs riot.

[KSK_47]

5 hours ago, Torn Asunder said:

So maybe he's worked out that our current crop of players respond well to a fired up manager. About time there was a bit of fire being rained down from the sidelines ... It should always mean something to pull on the City strip and play for the club, especially at home. The derby isn't the only game where emotions runs riot.

Current crop? Its not like the soft approach was working with his numerous other squads. I agree. Its great that we are starting to see some fire from him but my point was that you cant fake being a certain type of person. We have seen the "no more mister nice guy" from JVS before but it never stays that way.

IMO we need someone who is like that. Not someone who has to learn or pretend to be like it because otherwise we are going to stay in this ridiculous loop 

[Alexxxandro]

I like to think anyone can change. And maybe he is undergoing a serious change for the better. If so, it's about time and doesn't negate all the criticisms that have been leveled against him on this thread and elsewhere. I personally feel though that it's Bruno and Cahill leading the playing group in terms of leadership and passion.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Alexxxandro
edit: and yes Donald I know that I may be wrong but I'm just trying to understand why the team is doing better and I'm not prepared to give JVS the bulk of credit based on his history.

[KSK_47]

4 minutes ago, Alexxxandro said:

I like to think anyone can change. And maybe he is undergoing a serious change for the better. If so, it's about time and doesn't negate all the criticisms that have been leveled against him on this thread and elsewhere. I personally feel though that it's Bruno and Cahill leading the playing group in terms of leadership and passion.

I do agree people can change to a degree but being a strong leader is something you either are or you aren't imo. You can improve your leadership skills of course but i dont believe you can learn to or change to become a strong leader.

[Jovan]

10 minutes ago, KSK_47 said:

I do agree people can change to a degree but being a strong leader is something you either are or you aren't imo. You can improve your leadership skills of course but i dont believe you can learn to or change to become a strong leader.

But you can learn to be less shit.

[playmaker]

Roberto Carlos wants an A league coaching gig. He is another product of the Barca coaching system.

Interesting.

[KSK_47]

5 minutes ago, Jovan said:

But you can learn to be less shit.

Absolutely. But when you are well below par learning to be "less shit" just brings you up to par or arguably just under par which is not what we need. Particularly not from an imported coach who is being paid an above average wage

[n i k o]

15 hours ago, playmaker said:

Roberto Carlos wants an A league coaching gig. He is another product of the Barca coaching system.

Interesting.

Marquee coaches. Is there a FFA fund we can exploit for that in order to rub even more salt into the wounds of the bitters in this league. 

Edited December 6, 2016 by n i k o

[KSK_47]

10 minutes ago, playmaker said:

Roberto Carlos wants an A league coaching gig. He is another product of the Barca coaching system.

Interesting.

Big name, 36% win record, no success. Perfect!

[bt50]

13 minutes ago, KSK_47 said:

Absolutely. But when you are well below par learning to be "less shit" just brings you up to par or arguably just under par which is not what we need. Particularly not from an imported coach who is being paid an above average wage

Tbh i think a lot of people have been fairly harsh on JVS and have been very reluctant to give credit where credit is due, but in saying that, i 100% agree with you that he's not the man to take us forward. Overpaid and just hasnt gotten it right defensively often enough with the quality of squad at his disposal.

[playmaker]

41 minutes ago, KSK_47 said:

Big name, 36% win record, no success. Perfect!

Win record is not as reliable as what people make out, and more often than not a reflection of the team as a whole. Look at Arni and Musctard for example.

[KSK_47]

28 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Tbh i think a lot of people have been fairly harsh on JVS and have been very reluctant to give credit where credit is due, but in saying that, i 100% agree with you that he's not the man to take us forward. Overpaid and just hasnt gotten it right defensively often enough with the quality of squad at his disposal.

I have absolutely been harsh on him and never give him any credit whatsoever because the negative still completely eclipses any positives in my eyes. The amount of times this guy has been let off the hook is comical. And as i have said many times before if we are going to import coaching personnel there should never be any excuses made for them what so ever. Little pats on the back for getting basics right or praise for small patches of doing the right thing are counterproductive. Particularly after hearing about how aloisi wasnt fired after that Adelaide game because the crowd were applauding him (and i am guilty of being one of those clapping that day).

CFG promised us ruthlessness when it came to underperformance  and i want to see them deliver.