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Thank you for all your contributions throughout 2022 and best wishes to everyone on the Forum for a happy and peaceful Christmas and a prosperous 2023 ahead. jw

I've slept on my thoughts. In no particular order: We looked good for 22 minutes, although a little fragile in defence, allowing the vist0rs a few chances that a decent team would have converted. O'Neill's a key player for us; it was good to see him finally score. Why do we go through the inconvenience of regular bag searches, and body 'scans', and have to watch security jump on and wrestle a 14 yr old for standing on a seat when 'security services' provide no security whatsoever when they are needed? It looks like Glover threw two flares off the pitch; the first was just over the advertising fence, the second into the first few rows of a seething mob. Whilst this may have triggered the pitch invasion, it was widely advertised before the game, was premeditated, and was NEVER going to help the cause; APL has much evidence to show why a Grand Final should not be held in Melbourne. Both sets of active support seem to attract 'derby specials' who are never there primarily for the game itself; active support groups must actively identify and exclude these people. Flares are not the issue themselves; there were flares at Fed Square; they added to the atmosphere and were barely reported on by the media, and attracted no Police attention, but throwing anything on the pitch is unacceptable APL muzzling franchise media response immediately after the match left an unhealthy media vacuum APL has handled this issue very poorly; if they had thought this through, would they have expected any different fan response and, in particular, a different response from an entitled aggressive ill-disciplined group like visit0rs active support? I feel for the majority of supporters there who had their evening ruined, hundreds of frightened kids, potential lost future supporters, the players and Alex King. I hope the Channel 10 camera man is OK. A day of shame.

Can't fault the club, if Valon gets over the line it's a terrific transfer window. The midfield was clearly the most deficient area of our squad and we've rectified it with three hard-nosed Europeans, all at a really good age and with experience. How we go throughout the season really falls on PK now.

Same tickets, same seats. If you were eating food, needs to be the same. Even if you were having a piss at the 22nd minute, you'll need to start the game with your dick out.

That's why the club did not put out a statement earlier. In a cynical PR exercise to draw fire away from the decision and try to divert the questioning to focus on the positives from the World Cup, the club set up JMac, Leckie and Tilio - deliberately those three players (although JMac ultimately did not take part)- for the "press conference." It's a deliberate PR ploy - learned it years ago when I was in industry. The generals are back in the chateaux - it's the poor bloody infantry in the trenches. The people who are actually accountable for this decision at Melbourne City are of course Messrs. Pearce and Rowse and are nowhere to be seen, and don't have the guts or decency to be seen. Some or most of the other clubs have at least seen their Chairman/CEO come forward and take the flak. Not so Melbourne City, and that IMO that is almost worse than the decision itself. Gutless, spineless and weak. Despicable. Players are in the same position as the fans - not part of the decision-making process. To use them, or try to use them, to draw fire is completely unacceptable. The senior administrators of Melbourne City are full of shit.

Gosh there's some shit on here. Yeah not an unreal second half and it would've been fantastic to celebrate a goal down at our end. But to say we were bossed by them in the second half is total horse shit. Usually shitting myself to the final minute in a derby, but wasn't concerned in the slightest all game. Perhaps that's a good thing you know... Great result, we're 3 from 3 including 2 wins from our derby rivals we couldn't do last season. Building beautifully.

Weve literally done the double with Metcalfe and Atkinson last year, and are the odds on favourite to win the plate again this week. If the talent is good enough then its good enough, irrespective of age.

Definitely aren't out on a technicality, the rules were in place before the tournament started. Can certainly argue the 4th place points not counting isn't fair, given we were technically the 3rd ranked 2nd place side across both east and west combined across any sort of normal system, but ultimately it is what it is and we needed to do better. We were 100% ridiculously unlucky with how the other results conspired against us. Aloisi would be proud of that set of circumstances for sure. Ultimately i think we did well overall as a team given the injuries we had and 6 games in 18 days, but its hard not to look at the little things like man management and Glover's indiscretions as being key reason we fell agonizingly short.

Colacovski has been disappointing should have offered alot more in his 85 seconds as impact sub

This is the problem though, he should have been more than a bit part player. He was good enough to warrant getting 30 mins of game time pretty much every game, especially in the first half of the season where Leckie was just plodding around looking content to collect his pay cheque and do nothing to earn it. People's reactions are not over the top in my opinion, the reactions are a result of seeing "one of our own" leave for a reason that is likely PK's coaching philosophy of "I don't make substitutions even when it is blindingly obvious that they need to be made".

There's absolutely nothing wrong with our Plan A. It's generally good to watch and effective. But its maddening that when teams set up that low block against us we're too pig headed to change our point of attack. It's happened all season and IMO, PK has to cop most of the blame for what happened Saturday night. Plan B can't be do Plan A better. We're Melbourne City not Real Madrid. We don't have the out and out quality to repeatedly put the ball on a dime against a 10 man defence.

I don't mind at all if it is directed at me. This is as far as possible an open Forum, and I actually think that this season, and changes to the squad during the off-season ahead should be discussed and debated at quite some length. I guess all clubs have plans based on their resources. IMO though, all plans have to include a Plan B, otherwise you find yourself in a "First Day of the Somme" situation, relentlessly following a plan even though it is manifestly failing (and on the Somme dreadful and inconceivable loss of life). Just focussing on the game plan for the moment, our game plan delivered a Premiership, and with it ACL football again next time around. Very good. It didn't deliver in the FFA Cup, the Group stage in Thailand, and now the Finals Series back here at home. All these were, if you like, short forms of competition. In such competitions there's basically no second chance - you don't play a weak team the next week and get three points that way. I think that this season we have been very inflexible in our starting line-ups, and apparently unwilling to make substitutions and positional changes when that line-up doesn't deliver. At the 60-minute mark yesterday we were 2-0 down, and not looking like scoring. I cannot see any logical reason why we didn't, say, move Leckie to the centre, bring on Cola on the right wing, Tilio on the left, Bos as a left wing-back, and try and win the game. One goal and the pro-City crowd would have lifted and maybe we could have brought City home on the day. Why not go for it? It didn't matter if it didn't work, because we'd already lost the match as it stood. And there was no second leg, no catch-up match next week, no second chance. There's nothing wrong with having a game plan, but you have to be prepared to be flexible when it's not delivering. And Kisnorbo is not sufficiently flexible.

Agree with so much of the above. And finally PK actually influenced a result. Was brave to start Berenguer and we looked a completely different side the first 30 minutes, then he ran out of gas. Was great that he brought on Tilio and moved Leckie central. Glover played so much better, but was lucky. He completely missed a punch and it was only luck Adelaide didn't score. But Good and Nuno, seriously solid. Metcalfe worked and stretched them, but Griffiths change was also critical. I think he should start the granny over Gomulka. Cola was another great change. Overall PK has done what a decent coach should do and he needs his bench. Looking forward to this week.

Incorrect. No-one can take the plate off us. If we dont win it, we'll have lost it and have no one to blame but ourselves. We'll get it done tomorrow tho

It's all a bit fluid because the team that finishes *2nd, and the team that finishes 4th, often isn't decided until the final day, and then you have to work backwards to rank the second place teams. The United game is a total dead rubber until it isnt effectively; if Jeonnam get something out of the game against Pathum then top spot is back on the table, either by simply winning if Pathum lose, or winning by 5+ if there is a draw. Jeonnam have some incentive to get a result too; if they win they need us to lose for them to slide up into 2nd spot. In fairness that looks highly unlikely if we have a result to play for. In terms of the ranking of 2nd placed teams, our best result at the minute is to hope the game between Johor and Ulsan isn't a draw, because either of those team winning takes them top and we have already secured more points than Kawasaki against the non-last placed teams (Kawasaki play last in the final game). The other key fixture for us is hoping that Kitchee don't take more than 3 points over their two games v Vissel Kobe and Chiangrai. I think our most likely outcome is that we'll go through 3rd ranked of the 2nd placed teams, but top spot and missing out altogether are definitely still on the table.

I’ll take first place and a champions league spot as a success for this season.

Stockholm syndrome is a coping mechanism to a captive or abusive situation. People develop positive feelings toward their captors or abusers over time. This condition applies to situations including child abuse, coach-athlete abuse, relationship abuse, sex trafficking and above all supporting Melbourne heart/Melbourne City prior to Eric Mombarets.

Another oldish bloke here shares your sentiments. Having seen the Trent End in action from the far end as an opposition (Walsall) supporter I know exactly what you are on about. And I crave an ounce of the spontaneous passion and humour that I recall from the Street End at Walsall. We come from a different fan culture, and as such don't understand why active support needs to be organised. Just turn up, gather with the other noisy buggers and sing. Doesn't need megaphones or tifos. Bring your own flag, drum or ukelele if you want to. Also agreed re these wannabe ultras. I remember the eighties in the UK and the associated violence and hooliganism. I remember being herded about as if I was a dangerous invader, and having to jump over walls, run away and hide, and constantly watch my back. Can I say this bluntly. WE DO NOT WANT TO FUCKING GO THERE. Kids won't listen of course. Some always want to play with matches and then wonder where the fire came from and why they have no house anymore. I share your sad ambivalence and even recent memories of the warm, noisy, funny atmosphere we had even a few years ago, and in the Heart days. I don't want to be Victory. I don't want to be anything like fucking Victory. That's why I chose Heart back when I arrived in the country in 2011. I want us to be us, because we're a fabulous bunch of supporters, at heart. Too many gone, too many disillusioned. Good, genuine people who have even given up this season. I feel a genuine sense of mourning for what and who we have lost.

Just to clarify the position so far as your comment pertains to Yarraside. 1. Yarraside was not of the view it held leverage over the club. It may not have been apparent to the FRG, but Yarraside had a good working relationship with Scott Munn. 2. Yarraside was of the view that the atmosphere created by active support generally across all teams was vital to the success of the league. 3. Yarraside's non-negotiable independence was borne from the ethos that the passion of active support should be built by the fans and in no way manufactured by the club and that once you cease being fully independent you start having to make compromises for interests that an independent group would not need to make. As for other groups that came after Yarraside, I cannot comment.

Interesting how people see the game differently. Our entire game is based on moving the ball and therefore moving the opposition until we have an overload and ultimately it being at the back post 5 yards out. Does it always work? No, but we still had 5 or 6 big chances. Adelaide IMO created almost none, first goal was a terrible error by Tilio losing his feet and the ball in the first minute, he never recovered for the rest of his match. Bos played an atrocious waste high ball across the box that at no level is acceptable, and to his credit he got over it and saved the game. The other goal came from a set piece that we should really do better. Other than that what did they offer. We played them off the park. Should we be more direct, probably not, we try and play through teams and IMO successfully. I genuinely feel last 3 draws are anomalies and the next 3 games will prove so.

Well he’s actually very good, calm and a clever player.

This is spot on. Wanna know why attendances aren’t growing? Active is a big part of the issue. I have kids now and can’t sit anywhere near the flogs in active when amateur hour, un-clever chants like “Fuck ‘em all, fuck all the rest” come out. It’s a disgrace. I love watching the support, but the male toxicity (admit it, it’s a sausage fest - minimal chicks) which have all these young blokes feeding off each other’s pack mentality, builds this environment which pushes people further and further until stuff like last night happens, which at the time seems acceptable to those participating, Victory active support does have a far darker, sinister undertone - you can see it in the older thugs, wearing black hoodies covering faces etc, look like they are a gang not football fans. but people outside football see our terrace in the same light when flares are chucked, anti establishment chants with fuck the APL come out. Even look at your city terrace Facebook posts each week, written with anger about chanting, disrespecting opposition etc etc it all builds toxic anger. protest with banners, walk out, do all these things, but honestly, active support is an asset, and a liability - and maybe it really is something that needs to be looked at - is it time to disband a bunch of hot headed blokes on the sauce, and scatter them amongst the crowd. And if this stops you following our football club, maybe you weren’t there to follow and support and be part of our football club, but rather the toxic male pack mentality side of it where you felt part of a tribe who chant abuse and stick together, but that’s about it. this isn’t at all approval for moving the GF to Sydney, that’s still a disgrace, particularly the process. And we should still show peaceful protests and simply boycott finals, First past the post are the premiers. but this is more broadly a question about who really loves football and believes it can grow with new fans when they see the way our active fans behave. I’m a heart Foundation member, I got into aleague after 2006 World Cup when I finally understood the excitement and emotion of football seeing our country do so well. I could never follow victory because I saw back then the thugs and toxic undertone of their active. But I have loved heart/city and being a part of many wins and tough times (including in the terrace years ago), but have always cringed at some of our behaviour - I think if they ban active, for the long haul, maybe they have a better chance. Right now, we go backwards.

Wow, I thought it was superb. Negative posts seem to me to based on people's already fixed opinions and regardless of what he does or doesn't do won't change. My opinion on him is that he did an exceptional job season 1, season 2 he lost his way. Now, based on preseason and 3 games he seems to reflected on his and teams issues and has changed. Another point which I think is a little unfair being articulate does not always indicate intelligence. I think PK understands the game and potentially could be a great manager but agree his delivery and communication is limited. As any coach we've had and any future they will always divide opinion and ultimately can only be judged on results, points won/lost, finals won, players developed and ascetic style.

I had to double take to make sure that wasn't someone else....

Of all the players that I thought would have no use for us, but turned out to be incredibly useful, you were the best Rostyn, fucking brilliant part of the squad who did his job very well.

PK just text me and he’s found your 3 visa spots!

We weren't great, that's for certain. We just passed the ball sideways and created not alot. Berenguer is an icing on cake midfielder but he doesn't have the movement like Berisha does to move the defenders and midfielders in front of him. Apart from Leckie it didn't really look like anyone was going to score. It's not panic stations or anything, it's one bad performance that we haven't got points from. I'm sure we will come back Also one final point, fuck off Fornaroli

Just wanted to point out that when O'Neill plays we rarely lose..... 2022/23 Played: 10 Games | 9 Wins, 1 Draw, 0 Losses | 0% Loss Rate Did Not Play: 1 Game | 1 Loss | 100% Loss Rate 2021/22 (incl Finals) Played: 21 Games | 12 Wins, 6 Draws, 3 Losses | 14% Loss Rate Did Not Play: 8 Games | 3 Wins, 2 Draws, 3 Losses | 38% Loss Rate Most important player in the team.

I'm pleased to see that he is coaching better this season. Seems like we are better at managing games, and also it's good we are seeing subs PK also seems slightly calmer on the sidelines and even his pressers have improved Glover is also playing better ... Seems like there was some genuine introspection after last year's GF loss and improvements have been made Also seems like we finally have a full contingent of quality foreign players ... this helps heaps. Leckie also is looking great This is what should be expected as a minimum every season

We've got the players. The question is whether we have the coach. Nothing more, nothing less.

Just signed a Japanese player, Asahi. Not sure what position he plays but heard he likes it super dry so I suppose will like it in our summer. One for the ACL?

This could be one of the key signings for the next season. Tom Glover was decent and was improving under Neil Young's coaching, but really regressed last season. A good coach will get both our keepers back on track and save our on-field recruiting efforts for other positions

Love the thread, great idea @Jovan. Got a positive story to add. Got a call from Ryan on the Friday before the Wellington game. Said the club wanted to thank my partner and I for attending all home games this season and being long term members, and offered us an 'ultimate matchday experience'. We were chauffeured to and from AAMI, got free jerseys, had a stadium tour, and had seats behind Wellingtons bench (not the best view, but being pitch-side was cool). On the pitch up close for the trophy lifting too. Truly amazing. There's a video on social media if you want to watch us try, and fail, to act naturally with a camera following you the entire time.

Finally someone explaining it in a way I can understand.

The above posters' views on PK seem to be a bit more favourable than my own. In my view PK is a tactically inept hack whose main coaching "quality" is being a hardass and berating players for being 3cm out of position. His tactical ineptness is most obvious when one of his teams is being absolutely outplayed. In such situations he appears unable to notice the tactical issue (blaming individual errors and lack of work rate) which results in him not making substitutes, or making like-for-like substitutes (such that you are relying on a moment of individual brilliance to get something from the game) or making subs so late thst the player has no time to make an impact. A prime example of this is the GF against WU were it was obvious that things were not working and certain subs needed to be made. But he dragged his feet in making any unforced subs, eben though it was obvious Tillio needed to come on. He also seems to detest young talented players.

I've been an ''Active'' member for 10yrs and in earlier Heart days always made a beeline for the Active area. Craving the atmosphere I used to get in the Trent End at the City Ground (NFFC). But like, in the older blokes' area LOL up the back. I had a bird's eye view of the December debacle and it was not at all impressive at our end either. In summary, I am tired of the wannabe ''ultras'' ... it's put me off and if I do renew my membership next year it won't be behind the goal. Which doesn't thrill me because often the rest of AAMI is like a morgue until a goal is scored.. I'm not tarring all the enthusiastic CT types with this brush, but there are just enough of the flare-crazy kids to screw it up for me. And they're a bit like cops - they seem to get younger every year ha ha ha. The emergence of even more wannabes i.e. ''riverside32'' ''yarra blazing squad'' (WTF?) on social media has me rolling my eyeballs even more, but I'm also hoping it's just 3 kids logging on when mum is not watching, They can be thankful they are just playing at it. People still get very badly hurt or worse taking this BS to illogical extremes in other countries.

honestly thought we had them by throat the first half simply didnt put away our chances. You cant blame any else but yourselves when you fail to score from your opportunities. Second half was a lot closer. their third goal was complete arse, and if the players are right that the ref fucked up and caught our players off guard then the third goal is bullshit. but again, we had the chances so ..... fucking hurts to lose to the tards, but is it just me or have the tables turned; it honestly feels like every derby is now their grand final - like it used to be for us back in the Heart days? dont think Glover was as bad as some say. Berenguer is a luxary like player. hope he is gone seasons end. Leckie was great. Nabbout was decent when he came on. the rest of our attackers were wasteful. Good was missed at the back. agree with others, we need him back pronto.

I am of the view that this is financial suicide. The A-League is not sustainable as it stands, so why it is thought that a second national competition can be sustainable is beyond me. I also think that the relegation of any of the present A-League clubs, excepting our own, would ultimately see that club in serious financial difficulties to say the least.

IMO, to get the best out of Berisha we need an out and out number 9 who will look to collect the ball and lay it off. The issue becomes how do you determine where the point is that you sacrifice one of your best players (JMac) for the overall good of the team. Its hard to ascertain how much the team would improve by replacing Jmac with a forward more suited to our desired style. Not to mention it would be very,very hard to justify to fans media etc.

Went to this game with my 19 yo son. We're never usually near the first rows as we're GA but this time we booked four back. The people in front moved because of full sun and left us there to an almost empty Bay 11. Brilliant because at the end we had Bos, Talbot, Galloway come up to chat with us and Jamo gave my son a high five. My son plays as a left back in our local club so he was rapt that he could talk to all the full backs. Stayed for the women's game too

The league needs to take a good look at the rules around active The culture of active support has gone down the wrong path, mostly evident at the Tards, WSW, but also at City and Sydney ... I think the following 3 things should be set in place for active and it would resolve a heap ... 1. No covering faces 2. No swearing in chants 3. No middle finger solutes People will deride me for this, but these 3 things bring a lot of hostility and aggression to the experience, and also attract a certain fringe element who seek anarchy and violence. To me, as a lifetime attendee of a Heart/City games, these 3 things are so dumb and immature and they just add nothing Can active still support loudly and sing passionately without these 3 things? Yes of course they can. The people that need these things as part of their outlet are not really there for the game, they're there for the aggression. And when there is an undercurrent of aggression eventually it'll boil over, like the shameful events of last night's derby

The pitch invasion was pre-planned, numerous MVFC supporters with life bans were in attendance with their OSM pals. There was a reason why they all didn't walk out on 20 mins. If you watch the side angle of the video where Gliver throws the flare you can see some of them already starting to go over the fence and security moving in prior to the flare being thrown into the NT. Glover fucked up, n should be punished for that, but he can't be blamed for something that OSM planned to do.

Here's a thought. Maybe if all fans acknowledge that top of the ladder is the champions and the Finals are simply another crappy tournament like the Australia Cup. The ACL doesn't recognise the Grand finalist. We the fans should just give the finals a non attendance and that'll be that. You think any government going to pay for no shows

Key points imo: 1. Andy harper shouldn't be allowed to commentate city games as he had shown time and time again he is unable to remain unbiased. 2. Leckie was fantastic in the middle of the park 3. Tilio has no final product and needs to work on his finishing if he is to be considered a star of this league 4. Best on ground (with leckie a close second) was Jordan Bos. I don't know how Harper could spend so much time praising Nani when Nani repeatedly attempted to take Bos on and was stopped in his tracks every time! Bos dominated that battle and should have had a goal to his name too after a spectacular run late in the game. I get that Nani is a big name, but he had an awful game. Gave a penalty away, went down repeatedly trying to claim a foul (and thankfully Alireza wasn't buying into it) and lost almost all his duels with Bos. Overall not the best second half, definitely needed to be more lethal and put the game to bed, but a win's a win and we are top of the league!

Looks a very good signing on paper.

Very saddened by this news. Cola gave his heart and soul to this club. If his departure really is due to PK then I join the "PK out" chorus.

Some of this season, and especially the last few games, has started to remind me of the dog days of the Joyceball era. I'm trying to be optimistic and put it down to exhaustion through a thoroughly odd season. But the stale, predictable, sideways football, and the sense of all not being well behind the scenes, with players frozen out, is looking a little familiar. Feels like we all need a reset.

PK makes two mistakes. If there is no intention to play Endoh and Pucci then they shouldn't be on the bench at all. It cripples our substitute options. If they are on the bench then they must be used , as in the last match with the depleted squad. It means that he doesn't have approval from the top to get rid of them. Like in Wazza Fornaroli case. As a fully paying member I'm concerned about the funding for these players. It's completely out of business logic which CFG are supposed to be masters.