jw1739 Posted April 30, 2020 Report Share Posted April 30, 2020 17 minutes ago, Shahanga said: Just bluster at present. China need us too, but they are bully boys (see Hong Kong & Taiwan) and under this bloke that’s their style -either bribe (with Trojan horses) or bully. They’ve lost a lot of face after this CF they started and desperately don’t want an independent enquiry. To be honest I’m surprised by their lack of political skill on this. The classic political response would be oh yes there will be an inquiry and then manoeuvre things so it’s the opposite of independent. What really pisses me off is China’s behaviour is just so wrong. China under Deng was a far better neighbour than China under Xi. What it all means? I think we are better off standing up to PR China bullies now, but we don’t have a hope alone, without some heavy weight mates. India is one we desperately need on our side. Mate, they don't care a fuck what we think. They hold all the cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted April 30, 2020 Report Share Posted April 30, 2020 Just now, jw1739 said: Mate, they don't care a fuck what we think. They hold all the cards. They need our stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted April 30, 2020 Report Share Posted April 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Shahanga said: They need our stuff. They will walk in and take what they want when they're ready to do so. We are in hock to them right up to our eyeballs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted May 3, 2020 Report Share Posted May 3, 2020 My take on "easing restrictions" - much too early. I've seen little adherence by the general public to the 1.5m physical distancing recommendation/requirement, which I understand to be based on very old science anyway. If this virus gets out of control it's bloody hard to regain control - haven't we got enough evidence from Europe and the U.S. to see this? The economy won't be saved or ruined by one week here and one week there. We should play it safe not take any unnecessary risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewConvert Posted May 3, 2020 Report Share Posted May 3, 2020 19 minutes ago, jw1739 said: My take on "easing restrictions" - much too early. I've seen little adherence by the general public to the 1.5m physical distancing recommendation/requirement, which I understand to be based on very old science anyway. If this virus gets out of control it's bloody hard to regain control - haven't we got enough evidence from Europe and the U.S. to see this? The economy won't be saved or ruined by one week here and one week there. We should play it safe not take any unnecessary risk. A more relevant example is Singapore that seemed to have had the public health issues under control and all of a sudden COVID-19 made a huge comeback. Even here in Victoria with the meatwork's employees testing positive. They haven't told the public whether COVID-19 can survive in meat (frozen?) or who sells their products. I think that some restrictions can be relaxed with certain provisos. Certainly no pubs/cafes/restaurant/pokies. And it may be easier to lift the restrictions by shire/council rather than blanket. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakz7 Posted May 6, 2020 Report Share Posted May 6, 2020 Might wanna watch before it gets deleted lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakz7 Posted May 6, 2020 Report Share Posted May 6, 2020 19 hours ago, hakz7 said: Might wanna watch before it gets deleted lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted May 7, 2020 Report Share Posted May 7, 2020 On 03/05/2020 at 5:03 PM, jw1739 said: My take on "easing restrictions" - much too early. I've seen little adherence by the general public to the 1.5m physical distancing recommendation/requirement, which I understand to be based on very old science anyway. If this virus gets out of control it's bloody hard to regain control - haven't we got enough evidence from Europe and the U.S. to see this? The economy won't be saved or ruined by one week here and one week there. We should play it safe not take any unnecessary risk. And this doesn't make me feel good either. Looks like we're faced with a moving target. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-06/new-coronavirus-covid19-strain-mutation-hits-vaccine-research/12218834 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted May 7, 2020 Report Share Posted May 7, 2020 Current restrictions are costing $4 000 000 000/week. Clearly that’s the sort of thing you’ll only do (or should only do) if you have to. unfortunately this meat works thing is a set back for Victoria, but I still think we can remove some of the irrational restrictions and just focus on what actually helps. I think that mutation story is a bit of a furphy Jw. Experts I have read aren’t that worried about an impact (of potential mutation) on a potential vaccine at present. Incidentally there are 90 different vaccines under study at present that come from a multitude of approaches. We have every reason for optimism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSeater Posted May 7, 2020 Report Share Posted May 7, 2020 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Shahanga said: Current restrictions are costing $4 000 000 000/week. Clearly that’s the sort of thing you’ll only do (or should only do) if you have to. unfortunately this meat works thing is a set back for Victoria, but I still think we can remove some of the irrational restrictions and just focus on what actually helps. I think that mutation story is a bit of a furphy Jw. Experts I have read aren’t that worried about an impact (of potential mutation) on a potential vaccine at present. Incidentally there are 90 different vaccines under study at present that come from a multitude of approaches. We have every reason for optimism. Not to mention that the mutation findings are from studies that are yet to be peer reviewed. The fact that news outlets are reporting on this as though it is confirmed is a dangerous precedent. Edited May 7, 2020 by GreenSeater 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrison Posted May 7, 2020 Report Share Posted May 7, 2020 6 hours ago, hakz7 said: Did they prove it was a hoax yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewConvert Posted May 7, 2020 Report Share Posted May 7, 2020 6 hours ago, Shahanga said: Current restrictions are costing $4 000 000 000/week. Clearly that’s the sort of thing you’ll only do (or should only do) if you have to. unfortunately this meat works thing is a set back for Victoria, but I still think we can remove some of the irrational restrictions and just focus on what actually helps. I think that mutation story is a bit of a furphy Jw. Experts I have read aren’t that worried about an impact (of potential mutation) on a potential vaccine at present. Incidentally there are 90 different vaccines under study at present that come from a multitude of approaches. We have every reason for optimism. Even though I agree with your gist, I am still convinced that blanket simple rules are what people understand. And as JW has pointed out, some don't even understand them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted May 8, 2020 Report Share Posted May 8, 2020 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-08/coronavirus-government-spending-costly-but-saving-lives/12226152 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted May 29, 2020 Report Share Posted May 29, 2020 I'm having trouble understanding the rationale behind the community testing arrangements. My GP's medical clinic has two full-time nurses and several full-time doctors, but I can't get a COV-19 test done there even if I want to, where I could have a test by appointment and under controlled conditions - and I've been with my GP since Adam was a boy. Instead I'm supposed to go to Southland Shopping Centre and queue up for over an hour with several hundred other people who think they may be symptomatic of infection. Doesn't make sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewConvert Posted May 29, 2020 Report Share Posted May 29, 2020 8 hours ago, jw1739 said: I'm having trouble understanding the rationale behind the community testing arrangements. My GP's medical clinic has two full-time nurses and several full-time doctors, but I can't get a COV-19 test done there even if I want to, where I could have a test by appointment and under controlled conditions - and I've been with my GP since Adam was a boy. Instead I'm supposed to go to Southland Shopping Centre and queue up for over an hour with several hundred other people who think they may be symptomatic of infection. Doesn't make sense to me. Our clinic takes appointments but they are giving (were?) priority to the high risk groups. If you needed to go for something else that was hard because all doctors and nurses were doing COVID-19. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewConvert Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 On 23/04/2020 at 5:50 AM, NewConvert said: Going back to your original post three things have happened in the last week: Q&A (a show I don't watch but do read the recaps) had an economist who argued teh same thing that you did; it emerged that a group of prominent economists, including Ian Harper and Warwick McKibbin who are about as right wing as you can get, signed a letter not to lift the lockdown too early as the longer term costs would outweigh the short term gain; and Sweden is doing just as you suggested for the same reasons. So far the number of deaths in Sweden puts them in the top 10. It is interesting that the Swedish professor accuses the rest of the world of being unscientific when in reality all responses are based on assumptions. Speaking to my Swedish cousins, they are saying that most of their friends are voluntarily following the rest of the world with self imposed lockdowns and the fear is real. My tip is that in five years time both sides will claim they were right. Well it looks like I was wrong. The Swedish Chief Medical Officer now admits that the death toll in Sweden is too high and the economic forecasts are that it will do just as badly as the neighbouring Scandinavian economies and the EU. So at the moment it looks like the lockdown was the better alternative for the Swedes as they will end up with the same economic calamity and with more deaths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haz Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 13 hours ago, NewConvert said: Well it looks like I was wrong. The Swedish Chief Medical Officer now admits that the death toll in Sweden is too high and the economic forecasts are that it will do just as badly as the neighbouring Scandinavian economies and the EU. So at the moment it looks like the lockdown was the better alternative for the Swedes as they will end up with the same economic calamity and with more deaths. Edited June 4, 2020 by haz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted June 5, 2020 Report Share Posted June 5, 2020 This starting to give me some hope for the future. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-05/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-csl-uq-cepi/12324596 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted June 12, 2020 Report Share Posted June 12, 2020 What's the obsession of the National Cabinet with funerals? But, getting back to football, the next relaxation of regulations in July will allow venues (such as stadiums) with capacity up to 40,000 to hold ticketed events for attendances up to 25% of capacity. For AAMI this will allow attendances up to 7,500 spread around the whole stadium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malloy Posted June 12, 2020 Report Share Posted June 12, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, jw1739 said: What's the obsession of the National Cabinet with funerals? But, getting back to football, the next relaxation of regulations in July will allow venues (such as stadiums) with capacity up to 40,000 to hold ticketed events for attendances up to 25% of capacity. For AAMI this will allow attendances up to 7,500 spread around the whole stadium. I don't think this will be an issue for where I sit, as no-one seems to ever turn up despite members having tickets to nearly all seats in the bay, however it will be interesting to see how this will work for say active areas and other areas where people have tickets to specific seats. Are people in Cat A seats going to be happy about having to sit in GA (especially considering the club are still charging members)? Edit: This is on the assumption that the season even resumes and if it does that it isn't just quickly played out behind closed doors at a centralised hub. Edited June 12, 2020 by malloy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted June 12, 2020 Report Share Posted June 12, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, malloy said: I don't think this will be an issue for where I sit, as no-one seems to ever turn up despite members having tickets to nearly all seats in the bay, however it will be interesting to see how this will work for say active areas and other areas where people have tickets to specific seats. Are people in Cat A seats going to be happy about having to sit in GA (especially considering the club are still charging members)? Edit: This is on the assumption that the season even resumes and if it does that it isn't just quickly played out behind closed doors at a centralised hub. I would say that they're going to have to reallocate members' seats if this carries over into a new season. Theoretically we're going to see every fourth seat allocated, with rows being staggered. It's going to be a nuisance for multiple seat holders - family groups of 2+ - unless they can sit together and then leave a distance. Not sure that the National Cabinet has thought this one through. Won't be simple for clubs to manage. Edited June 12, 2020 by jw1739 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewConvert Posted June 12, 2020 Report Share Posted June 12, 2020 2 hours ago, jw1739 said: I would say that they're going to have to reallocate members' seats if this carries over into a new season. Theoretically we're going to see every fourth seat allocated, with rows being staggered. It's going to be a nuisance for multiple seat holders - family groups of 2+ - unless they can sit together and then leave a distance. Not sure that the National Cabinet has thought this one through. Won't be simple for clubs to manage. I don't think that it is up to the National Cabinet to think this through. If they had to think through all the fine details for every activity in teh country they would never finish. The Cabinet will set the rules and leave each sport/activity/venue to work it out as to how to implement it. After all, they are closest to the pointy end so it makes sense for the stakeholders to do this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted June 18, 2020 Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 (edited) One thing that's been annoying me for several weeks now - the allocation of "returned travellers" in our state COV-19 statistics. It makes the state statistics look a lot worse than they really are and apart from that it's not correct to attribute an infection to Australia when it has been acquired overseas. Secondary questions are why these people are still returning, where did they go and when? I thought travel out of the country had been stopped... Edited June 18, 2020 by jw1739 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewConvert Posted June 18, 2020 Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 2 hours ago, jw1739 said: One thing that's been annoying me for several weeks now - the allocation of "returned travellers" in our state COV-19 statistics. It makes the state statistics look a lot worse than they really are and apart from that it's not correct to attribute an infection to Australia when it has been acquired overseas. Secondary questions are why these people are still returning, where did they go and when? I thought travel out of the country had been stopped... You would be surprised at the number of people who travel overseas for pre-longed periods. I once spent 7 months being a tourist. However we have a rather large number of colleagues who hail from the subcontinent and for quite a few airlines cancelled their flights and only now are beginning to trickle back into Oz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haz Posted June 18, 2020 Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, jw1739 said: One thing that's been annoying me for several weeks now - the allocation of "returned travellers" in our state COV-19 statistics. It makes the state statistics look a lot worse than they really are and apart from that it's not correct to attribute an infection to Australia when it has been acquired overseas. Secondary questions are why these people are still returning, where did they go and when? I thought travel out of the country had been stopped... Latest ABC report I read said that majority of travellers in the last few weeks are from the Indian sub continent. That region is about to go into chaos with COVID Edited June 18, 2020 by haz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moops Posted June 18, 2020 Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 Do people still watch Q & A? It's become a deplorable program. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted June 20, 2020 Report Share Posted June 20, 2020 I thought that this would happen. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-20/victoria-coronavirus-numbers-increase-again-with-more-new-cases/12376316 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewConvert Posted June 20, 2020 Report Share Posted June 20, 2020 4 hours ago, jw1739 said: I thought that this would happen. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-20/victoria-coronavirus-numbers-increase-again-with-more-new-cases/12376316 Until a vaccine comes along we are going to be bouncing between control and no control. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 All I'll say is, thank fuck I live an introverted lifestyle and outside of having travel plans cancelled and no live sport to attend, my life has hardly changed. Can't imagine what it's like for a lot of people out there, especially those who have lost their jobs. We're going to see huge spikes in mental illness soon I fear, if not already. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 On 20/06/2020 at 8:14 PM, NewConvert said: Until a vaccine comes along we are going to be bouncing between control and no control. Which actually means "no control." You have "control" when you are dictating what happens, and that's not the case with COV-19. At the moment we are almost completely reactive. I'd like to see this "blitz" testing carried out in a couple of other areas before I'm convinced that we're dealing only with 10 "hotspots." I think it quite possible that the results from other areas of Melbourne are just as concerning as the 10 hotspots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewConvert Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 9 hours ago, jw1739 said: Which actually means "no control." You have "control" when you are dictating what happens, and that's not the case with COV-19. At the moment we are almost completely reactive. I'd like to see this "blitz" testing carried out in a couple of other areas before I'm convinced that we're dealing only with 10 "hotspots." I think it quite possible that the results from other areas of Melbourne are just as concerning as the 10 hotspots. I do wish that they would come out openly and say that they will have a program for testing from now through to the end of the year covering all urban regions. Ideally they would do so at shopping centres, schools and areas of employment where close contact cannot be avoided. I work in an office so we can all maintain distancing by having a roster but the factory and warehouse it is more difficult. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 (edited) The hotel "quarantine" in Victoria has been a shambles. Even releasing people after they tested positive. Look at them all now running for cover saying that they weren't responsible, just as the the behaviour in NSW over the Ruby Princess. It was and is the Government's job to make sure that the hotel quarantine is managed properly. The buck stops there. Bastards. Andrews, Sutton, the lot of them. Edited July 3, 2020 by jw1739 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted July 7, 2020 Report Share Posted July 7, 2020 FMD, another 6 weeks of lock-down. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-07/coronavirus-australia-live-news-covid-19-latest-nsw-victoria/12427970 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted July 8, 2020 Report Share Posted July 8, 2020 One lock-down regulation I don't understand is the restriction on using "holiday homes" outside metropolitan Melbourne. I would have thought that for those lucky enough to have one (not me), if you have a COV test that shows negative, it is to everyone's advantage for you to use the holiday home - you have a much lower chance of contracting the virus by doing so, and can't pass it on to others either. I would think this restriction doesn't make sense particularly for older people. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jovan Posted July 8, 2020 Report Share Posted July 8, 2020 2 hours ago, jw1739 said: One lock-down regulation I don't understand is the restriction on using "holiday homes" outside metropolitan Melbourne. I would have thought that for those lucky enough to have one (not me), if you have a COV test that shows negative, it is to everyone's advantage for you to use the holiday home - you have a much lower chance of contracting the virus by doing so, and can't pass it on to others either. I would think this restriction doesn't make sense particularly for older people. The argument against is that you are taking away resources from already stretched communities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted July 8, 2020 Report Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Jovan said: The argument against is that you are taking away resources from already stretched communities. I don't understand that answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewConvert Posted July 8, 2020 Report Share Posted July 8, 2020 7 hours ago, jw1739 said: One lock-down regulation I don't understand is the restriction on using "holiday homes" outside metropolitan Melbourne. I would have thought that for those lucky enough to have one (not me), if you have a COV test that shows negative, it is to everyone's advantage for you to use the holiday home - you have a much lower chance of contracting the virus by doing so, and can't pass it on to others either. I would think this restriction doesn't make sense particularly for older people. My brother has a holiday home nestled in the Great Ocean Road. if he moved there and has the virus when they go shopping he can contaminate someone. So now that would be two people going to the local regional hospital, which is quite small and not used to dealing with this type of sickness. This would be on top of the normal use of ICU beds due to farming accidents, heart attacks, etc. So hospital resources are going to be stretched. Towns are still crowded places - supermarkets aren't designed differently to those in the city. Older people also require additional health support which is why my neighbour will die without fulfilling his dream of living in the country, he needs regular specialist care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted July 8, 2020 Report Share Posted July 8, 2020 Fair enough but I did say that a pre-requisite would be a negative test. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted July 8, 2020 Report Share Posted July 8, 2020 Not quite what I was referring to, but on the subject of separating infected and non-infected people, this is worth a read. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-08/coronavirus-victoria-lockdown-family-member/12433636 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofhearts Posted July 8, 2020 Report Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) I still don't understand why we hired private security to guard the hotels where people were quarantining instead of using the ADF like every other state did? Just seems bizarre and yet all they have done now is replaced them with flight attendants? It's clear you can't trust the general public, just get the goddamm ADF in! I don't which fuck up was worst, the ruby princess or this hotel debacle. Edited July 8, 2020 by kingofhearts 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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