The Coronavirus Thread (We nearly didn't see City in the 2021 Grand Final)

[kingofhearts]

Couldn't of they of bought lockdown after Saturday? Some of us had Australian open tickets for today ffs

[jw1739]

58 minutes ago, kingofhearts said:

Couldn't of they of bought lockdown after Saturday? Some of us had Australian open tickets for today ffs

Unfortunately, the answer to that is "no" because the this mutation of the virus is so infectious. If this bastard escapes it will take a lot of stopping. It's no consolation to you but many people are caught up by a sudden lockdown, and aggregated costs are horrendous, and IMO every lockdown because of a quarantine failure strengthens the argument that we need to change our quarantine practices.

[jw1739]

19 hours ago, NewConvert said:

I am rapidly losing faith in Professor Sutton. Too many instances of the Boris variant have shown that people can become infected after the 16th day. Why not take the precautionary principle an extend the quarantine period to 18 days? Furthermore even if the nebuliser was responsible for the Holiday Inn break out, it does not explain the previous instances.

@NewConvert Kelly this afternoon still stubbornly defending quarantine arrangements.

[NewConvert]

6 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

@NewConvert Kelly this afternoon still stubbornly defending quarantine arrangements.

[jw1739]

2 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

There's a good article somewhere today by Laura Tingle about smartarse non-answers to questions. Worth a read.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-13/climate-policy-morrison-government-commentary-what-about-answers/13149566

Here's an excerpt:
"Asked a couple of weeks ago whether spending $24 million on a public information campaign to boost public confidence in the COVID-19 vaccination program was a waste of money when backbenchers like Craig Kelly were undermining it in posts on Facebook, Scott Morrison "answered" that Craig Kelly "isn't my doctor" (to much guffawing from the assembled Government ministers and staff in the audience). As if that in any way dealt with the issues of the use of taxpayer funds, the potential damage Kelly was doing, or Morrison's own political weakness in refusing to deal with him."

[jw1739]

@NewConvert Mate, you're going to love this one even more.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-13/hotel-quarantine-not-on-infection-control-victoria-taskforce/13152242

Unbelievable. Inexcusable.

[NewConvert]

17 hours ago, jw1739 said:

@NewConvert Mate, you're going to love this one even more.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-13/hotel-quarantine-not-on-infection-control-victoria-taskforce/13152242

Unbelievable. Inexcusable.

FMD.

I get the bit that says HQ is different to hospital but the training of personnel should be to the same standard. And the fact that they only this week agreed to have "an increase of sharing of information" is just inexcusable.

[NewConvert]

18 hours ago, jw1739 said:

There's a good article somewhere today by Laura Tingle about smartarse non-answers to questions. Worth a read.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-13/climate-policy-morrison-government-commentary-what-about-answers/13149566

Here's an excerpt:
"Asked a couple of weeks ago whether spending $24 million on a public information campaign to boost public confidence in the COVID-19 vaccination program was a waste of money when backbenchers like Craig Kelly were undermining it in posts on Facebook, Scott Morrison "answered" that Craig Kelly "isn't my doctor" (to much guffawing from the assembled Government ministers and staff in the audience). As if that in any way dealt with the issues of the use of taxpayer funds, the potential damage Kelly was doing, or Morrison's own political weakness in refusing to deal with him."

Well Dutton cut his teeth as a police officer during the Bjelke-Peterson era and was a family friend of Terrence Lewis. Enough said.

[Shahanga]

I wonder when the overseas and interstate teams are arriving in Melbourne to study our “Gold Standard Quarantine”?

[jw1739]

What I would like to know - and I've asked the question many times on the ABC blog but it remains unanswered - is, if the first case at the Airport Holiday Inn was known on 4th/5th February, why weren't all staff there sent into immediate isolation, and therefore WTF was a worker from the hotel doing at a family gathering in Coburg on 6th February?

It's this sort of shit that is causing the problems in Victoria. The State government cannot be trusted to run this quarantine program.

[jw1739]

Further to the above:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-15/victorias-hotel-quarantine-not-following-infection-controls/13156278

The whole thing is a fucking shambles and it is us, ordinary people, who are suffering.

[Shahanga]

2 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Further to the above:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-15/victorias-hotel-quarantine-not-following-infection-controls/13156278

The whole thing is a fucking shambles and it is us, ordinary people, who are suffering.

Indeed.

And their much vaunted contact tracing: “it’s taken longer because we want to get it right” apparently Maxs out at 2 cases per day, after which it’s overloaded and only a full lockdown will suffice.

[jw1739]

Two uplifting stories. We need positive stories like this to come through.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-15/retired-nurse-after-48-years-stayed-to-help-with-vaccine-uk-roll/13146128

[jw1739]

So after months of denial that we couldn't have a quarantine facility anywhere but in the centre of Melbourne we are now going to build one elsewhere. "It's more than just scoping it — we are going to get on and build a facility," Mr Andrews said. "It's just a matter of exactly how big it is and the more precise details of where, but Avalon and Melbourne Airports are stand-out candidates."

FMD.

[Shahanga]

5 hours ago, jw1739 said:

So after months of denial that we couldn't have a quarantine facility anywhere but in the centre of Melbourne we are now going to build one elsewhere. "It's more than just scoping it — we are going to get on and build a facility," Mr Andrews said. "It's just a matter of exactly how big it is and the more precise details of where, but Avalon and Melbourne Airports are stand-out candidates."

FMD.

The only thing he is good at is bullshitting.

[jw1739]

On 15/02/2021 at 7:32 PM, Shahanga said:

Indeed.

And their much vaunted contact tracing: “it’s taken longer because we want to get it right” apparently Maxs out at 2 cases per day, after which it’s overloaded and only a full lockdown will suffice.

@Shahanga Just one case (three infected members of the same family group) already in quarantine resulted in over 3000 people in isolation. The numbers tell me that contact tracing just cannot work, and this has been demonstrated overseas over and over again.

Interesting that the other States have not had quarantine failures as we have. This is clearly a Victorian problem. Quarantine requires a strict national approach, but I don't trust smartarse Morrison whatsoever.

It really shits me that, for example, in WA not even masks are required and they are enjoying life as it used to be. We should be able to do that as a country.

Edited February 17, 2021 by jw1739

[Shahanga]

4 hours ago, jw1739 said:

@Shahanga Just one case (three infected members of the same family group) already in quarantine resulted in over 3000 people in isolation. The numbers tell me that contact tracing just cannot work, and this has been demonstrated overseas over and over again.

Interesting that the other States have not had quarantine failures as we have. This is clearly a Victorian problem. Quarantine requires a strict national approach, but I don't trust smartarse Morrison whatsoever.

It really shits me that, for example, in WA not even masks are required and they are enjoying life as it used to be. We should be able to do that as a country.

NSW have successfully dealt with up to 20 new cases a day. More than once. Obviously I don’t know what their upper limit is, but yes there would be one.

If your upper limit is 2/day id suggest you’re doing something wrong. It’s not like NSW is on Mars, I imagine they’d be happy to explain how their system works, but thst would mean dropping the facade wouldn’t it.

Masks outdoors in particular seem so pointless. “We need to act like we know what we’re doing “

[bt50]

3 minutes ago, Shahanga said:

Masks outdoors in particular seem so pointless. “We need to act like we know what we’re doing “

My guess is that they actually are pointless outside most of the time, its just that they dont want to have to deal with outdoor crowded spaces like malls, train stations, live sport etc and all the people that are looking for loopholes etc. Its easier for them both risk and communication wise to say blanket wearing.

[jw1739]

53 minutes ago, bt50 said:

My guess is that they actually are pointless outside most of the time, its just that they dont want to have to deal with outdoor crowded spaces like malls, train stations, live sport etc and all the people that are looking for loopholes etc. Its easier for them both risk and communication wise to say blanket wearing.

IMO you are correct. But as my grandfather used to say, "The problem with common sense is that it's not very common." We have a very high occurrence of the dickhead species in Victoria. The sort of people who when you are out walking wait until you are just alongside their parked car and then get out of it right in front of you. Or cross the road and walk directly at you. Joggers who pad up behind you and brush past you. Or the guy with no mask who gets into your otherwise empty carriage and sits directly behind you.

So we wear our masks every time we leave our premises. I hate the fucking things but even if they are useless most of the time I'm prepared to wear one just for those dickhead moments.

[jw1739]

Just what is the difference between the way Victoria is handling quarantine and the way NSW is doing it?

I guess that Sydney would be handling more arrivals than we are and it seems that we are the ones bungling things.

Edited February 17, 2021 by jw1739

[NewConvert]

Geography explains some of it. If you notice in that world wide studies 9/10 best countries were islands. The worst spots were countries with no boundaries with two exceptions: UK & Chile.

So what does have to do with Sydney? Well due to geography Sydney is quite segregated and the roads don't help to getting across. One of my brother used to live there and I had periodic work in Sydney during the 90s and I can tell you going from the western suburbs to the northern suburbs was a trek. So in effect, Sydney is like a host of islands.

Where the failure appears to have have happened is in communication. So HQ say that the the bloke never told them about the nebuliser and he claims that he did and was offered replacement puffers. And because the staff are not medical staff they would not have clicked. Once when I went to a game at AAMI the security guard wouldn't let me through with my epipen because he didn't know and that the was the only time that I forgot to take my letter from AAMI park management stating that epipens were permissible, so he called the first aid staff and they gave him a dirty look and told him to let me through.

My brother actually predicted something like this because of the air pressures in the buildings. No engineers in the HQ team.

[jw1739]

21 hours ago, bt50 said:

My guess is that they actually are pointless outside most of the time, its just that they dont want to have to deal with outdoor crowded spaces like malls, train stations, live sport etc and all the people that are looking for loopholes etc. Its easier for them both risk and communication wise to say blanket wearing.

"There, sir, are your guns."

Apart from the Homo Dickhead problem we have, it's all in the communication. In fact, masks are not mandatory everywhere outdoors. Here is today's statement from Health Minister Martin Foley.

"Face masks are mandatory indoors other than in your home, including workplaces," he says.

"They are also mandatory outdoors where it is busy and you cannot maintain physical distancing.

"And you must take a mask with you wherever you go."

I prefer to be safe rather than sorry, but as you will have observed yourself there are plenty of Homo Dickhead wandering around.

[jw1739]

I think that there are other things we could do to make our society better, not only related to COV-19. In Lockdown 1 some supermarkets had special hours reserved for seniors, frontline and shift workers, and that eased checkout congestion. Another thing would be to end the madness of "school pick-up" all at the same time - there's no reason why different classes could not be discharged at different times. IMO we can think more laterally and wherever we can ease congestion would be a lifestyle improvement.

[belaguttman]

On 12/02/2021 at 7:59 PM, playmaker said:

No official data supports your claim, WHO is holding off 2020 total mortality rate data, so their published data are projections and the published statistical change is insignificant.

CDC also published data which shows no significant statistical variation in total mortality, and what is interesting is that the c19 deaths with co-morbilites are in line with the last 3 years influenza co-morbilities and those deaths without co-morbilies are also in line with previous influenza numbers which is less that 5% and have the same age demographics.

 

You can look at them here.

On 12/02/2021 at 7:59 PM, playmaker said:

They used the PCR test to replicate something that they expected it to look like, ie SARS-CoV-1 which is basically common influenza, cultured it in monkey cell (from memory) but never PROVED anything other than that.

Of course, that's exactly how PCR works, and that's why it's so specific. If Covid19 RNA didn't exist in a sample then PCR would report a negative result

On 16/01/2021 at 2:18 PM, playmaker said:

Here is a video from 12/27/2020. A court in Ireland refused to provide evidence of isolate (laboratory isolate) of the Sars-cov-2 virus. Specifically, the court acknowledged that it had no evidence that the virus had ever been isolated (purified from other biomaterial) by anyone in a laboratory. In other words, the court stated that it has no evidence of the existence of a scientifically obtained strain of this virus.

A completely untrue claim. The virus RNA was sequenced here in Australia at the start if the pandemic.

Playmaker, do you have any scientific training?

[Jovan]

With the Vacine rollout I think Melbourne should be 1st. 

Mainly because I leave here, but also we have endured and suffered the most, hence we should be first in line, obviously starting with front line and other groups, but overall Melburnians as a general cohort deserve a break.

[jw1739]

21 minutes ago, Jovan said:

With the Vacine rollout I think Melbourne should be 1st. 

Mainly because I leave here, but also we have endured and suffered the most, hence we should be first in line, obviously starting with front line and other groups, but overall Melburnians as a general cohort deserve a break.

Absolutely. I'm buggered if I can see why areas of regional Victoria and states such as WA, Tasmania and SA, which have had very few cases, are getting priority over large swathes of Melbourne.

And I've still got no idea what I've got to do to actually get my vaccination even when my suburb makes the list.

Communication is fucking terrible.

[Shahanga]

So if people want some good news it seems daily global cases are now less than half what they were in early January. This is the first time since this began that global cases have gone down.

A first step in the right direction id say.

[jw1739]

3 minutes ago, Shahanga said:

So if people want some good news it seems daily global cases are now less than half what they were in early January. This is the first time since this began that global cases have gone down.

A first step in the right direction id say.

There is quite a lot of positive news out there actually. It's just that the negativity in Australia overwhelms it.

One thing that gives me the shits about the stats is that we continue to count cases where the virus was obviously contracted overseas as local infections, simply because the positive test is taken here.

Where someone arrives from overseas and goes straight into quarantine and then tests positive is, in my humble opinion, not a local transmission.

[jw1739]

This article worth a read. There are still so many unknowns in this much-touted-by-the-Feds vaccination program.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-20/covid-australia-vaccine-rollout-knowns-and-unknowns/13168566

For me this is the big unanswered question: "Although the Government revealed some detail earlier this month, another unknown is where exactly most Australians will need to go to get the vaccine when the rollout ramps up in late March and April — and when they will be notified it is their turn."

Edited February 19, 2021 by jw1739

[haz]

"I don't hold a syringe, mate"

Edited February 19, 2021 by haz

[jw1739]

I just read that apart from aged care vaccination is going to be handled by the States and Territories.

Stand by for another Victorian fuck-up.

Like this one:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-20/victorian-hotel-quarantine-workers-without-fit-tested-n95-masks/13174908

Edited February 19, 2021 by jw1739

[jw1739]

The U.S. administers 50 million vaccination doses in 37 days.

Wake up Australia.

 

[jw1739]

If 50,000 are to be allowed into the MCG and 29,000 into Docklands perhaps City's miniscule membership could be allowed to resume their seats at AAMI? 

[jw1739]

On 26/02/2021 at 4:21 PM, jw1739 said:

If 50,000 are to be allowed into the MCG and 29,000 into Docklands perhaps City's miniscule membership could be allowed to resume their seats at AAMI? 

Given that 22,000 are allowed into AAMI from 6 p.m. on Friday I would hope that members can soon dispense with the need to go through Ticketek to be admitted to matches.

[jw1739]

Here we go again. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-25/melbourne-covid-cluster-grows-victoria-restrictions-return/100162644

[belaguttman]

Yes, we'll keep getting leakage from quarantine, especially whilst we are using city hotels, but there's a lot of corporate vested interest pushing hard to retain them for quarantine. Of concern, one of the cases is a super-spreader, bad luck really, but that's also what happened last year (we had two super spreaders). It's a chance to see how well our contact tracing works, a major task for Health that has spent 30 years removing as much expertise as possible, and outsourcing and privatising every possible thing they could. It's been a real shock to the culture to develop any in-house expertise beyond managerialism, especially allowing health professionals anywhere near the levers of power. Strange times in health.

[jw1739]

Nine confirmed cases now, possible contacts all over the place. I'm as angry as hell about yet another quarantine failure. We've had nearly 18 months of this pandemic and yet we still can't get it right. Total fucking incompetence at all levels of government.

[belaguttman]

All but one case has already been identified within the transmission chain, that's a big improvement from last year. If this continues, it's looking good. It reinforces the reason to vaccinate everyone ASAP

[haz]

3 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Nine confirmed cases now, possible contacts all over the place. I'm as angry as hell about yet another quarantine failure. We've had nearly 18 months of this pandemic and yet we still can't get it right. Total fucking incompetence at all levels of government.

Blame is on SA for this one 

[thisphantomfortress]

Another year, another Grand Final only I can attend. I'm playing 5D chess here