Season 2023/24

[mattyh001]

looks like we're gonna get screwed for a chunk of this next season.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/football/aleague-clubs-set-to-suffer-with-loss-of-socceroos-during-the-asian-cup/news-story/0dd75d3f5bac53b231db64c567d3ecc7

in short, the aleague is not stopping for the Asian Cup.  so unless JMac, Leckie et al miraculously dont get selected or miss selection thru injury, we are going to lose a couple of players for a month.

[jw1739]

4 hours ago, mattyh001 said:

looks like we're gonna get screwed for a chunk of this next season.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/football/aleague-clubs-set-to-suffer-with-loss-of-socceroos-during-the-asian-cup/news-story/0dd75d3f5bac53b231db64c567d3ecc7

in short, the aleague is not stopping for the Asian Cup.  so unless JMac, Leckie et al miraculously dont get selected or miss selection thru injury, we are going to lose a couple of players for a month.

I note that "stakeholders" doesn't appear to take account of what we, the members and fans of the clubs, think. On the face of it and without looking at every competition in detail, couldn't we start at the beginning of October? The AFL Grand Final is on 30th September.

[citypool]

They go back and forth with stopping for international breaks 

[MHFC-FAN]

57 minutes ago, citypool said:

They go back and forth with stopping for international breaks 

Yeah it's bloody annoying! Why stop for world cup but not Asian comps?

[jw1739]

I would like to know why this decision has been made. This document here, an official FIFA match calendar, shows that the AFC Cup is an official competition and that a break is an "official window" and is allowable/could/should be taken.

https://digitalhub.fifa.com/m/3123d37097318f7f/original/Men-s-International-Match-Calendar-2023-2030_EN.pdf

I personally have had a gutful of APL and FA, and I have to go back to the words of Steven Lowy: "Be careful what you wish for." Sad to say that I supported the concept of the League not being directly managed by FA, but the reality is not living up to the concept.

[Cityamatic]

2 hours ago, jw1739 said:

I would like to know why this decision has been made. This document here, an official FIFA match calendar, shows that the AFC Cup is an official competition and that a break is an "official window" and is allowable/could/should be taken.

https://digitalhub.fifa.com/m/3123d37097318f7f/original/Men-s-International-Match-Calendar-2023-2030_EN.pdf

I personally have had a gutful of APL and FA, and I have to go back to the words of Steven Lowy: "Be careful what you wish for." Sad to say that I supported the concept of the League not being directly managed by FA, but the reality is not living up to the concept.

Agree 100% with this; I thought the change was going to be a good thing but it's turned into an absolute turd sandwich. I think it was watching the lead in to the completely-unbiased-and-not-at-all-NSW-centric telecast of the GF - right before Paramount froze and I couldn't see kickoff - that I finally lost all faith that the league remains a legitimate competition.

TBH if I didn't care about City I'd walk away from following the A-League today.

[jw1739]

I'm a member of the FSAA - https://fsaaus.com/. I've raised this issue with them this morning. Membership costs nothing and at least the FSAA does get to talk with APL. Whether we will ever get a formal seat at the table - well, I doubt it but we have to keep trying.

I'm not in the structure of the FSAA so I have no vested interest in suggesting that City fans consider joining and thereby giving more strength to its arm, other than trying to help the league survive.

[mjake1234]

19 hours ago, jw1739 said:

I'm a member of the FSAA - https://fsaaus.com/. I've raised this issue with them this morning. Membership costs nothing and at least the FSAA does get to talk with APL. Whether we will ever get a formal seat at the table - well, I doubt it but we have to keep trying.

I'm not in the structure of the FSAA so I have no vested interest in suggesting that City fans consider joining and thereby giving more strength to its arm, other than trying to help the league survive.

Thank you JW. Knew nothing about the FSAA. I have now joined - it seems to be free?? This is just what was needed. Hopefully they will gain traction and become a strong supporter voice.

[jw1739]

13 minutes ago, mjake1234 said:

Thank you JW. Knew nothing about the FSAA. I have now joined - it seems to be free?? This is just what was needed. Hopefully they will gain traction and become a strong supporter voice.

@mjake1234 Yes, it is free. I was made aware of it by a member of our Gang, who keeps his eye on all this sort of thing.

[belaguttman]

Vested interests work for the benefit of vested interests. It doesn't matter which one it is, it's never going to work in the interests of the fans unless we adopt a Bundesliga ownership model

[citypool]

It'll be interesting how the fans would feel about the owners if we have a crap season. Football in Victoria in general is struggling so hopefully it can improve this season 

[jw1739]

13 hours ago, belaguttman said:

Vested interests work for the benefit of vested interests. It doesn't matter which one it is, it's never going to work in the interests of the fans unless we adopt a Bundesliga ownership model

And it won't happen here. Once we were sold to Manchester City, the die was cast, and it's even harder now because the A-league is now part-owned by a private investor, itself an investor in our owners.

Once you look dig further and look at the actual individuals who run both Football Australia and the A-League you will see that there is no way they will ever give up and introduce a different structure or club ownership rules, nor give any concession to the fans. In the case of City, even if fans boycotted the club completely and every match was played in an empty stadium it would not make a jot of difference to our owners, nor to the league.

The only chance that fans have is if a new club started up which has the "German 51" rule right from the start, embedded in its constitution. I wonder now whether the Team11 bid, and which was to be based in Dandenong and Casey Fields, was deliberately overlooked because of our owners? I find it more than coincidence that we now occupy facilities that were to be a cornerstone of the new club.

Once you sell your soul to the devil you will dance with him forever.

[Heart Inaugural]

On 20/07/2023 at 3:57 PM, jw1739 said:

And it won't happen here. Once we were sold to Manchester City, the die was cast, and it's even harder now because the A-league is now part-owned by a private investor, itself an investor in our owners.

Once you look dig further and look at the actual individuals who run both Football Australia and the A-League you will see that there is no way they will ever give up and introduce a different structure or club ownership rules, nor give any concession to the fans. In the case of City, even if fans boycotted the club completely and every match was played in an empty stadium it would not make a jot of difference to our owners, nor to the league.

The only chance that fans have is if a new club started up which has the "German 51" rule right from the start, embedded in its constitution. I wonder now whether the Team11 bid, and which was to be based in Dandenong and Casey Fields, was deliberately overlooked because of our owners? I find it more than coincidence that we now occupy facilities that were to be a cornerstone of the new club.

Once you sell your soul to the devil you will dance with him forever.

Agreed and well said.

I know it doesn't make an iota of difference, but I wear red and white to games.

Perhaps it's to reminisce the innocence of the Heart days, or as a small protest of CFG's ownership, perhaps it make me feel slightly more connected to a Club that seems to do a lot to isolate a dwindling supporter base.

[mattyh001]

Perth Glory has gone into voluntary administration. Sage has walked away 

[jw1739]

2 hours ago, mattyh001 said:

Perth Glory has gone into voluntary administration. Sage has walked away 

@mattyh001 See Perth thread.

[HughJass]

Interesting article on the state of the clubs finances https://www.ftbl.com.au/news/a-leagues-fault-lines-exposed-as-fiscal-woes-stalk-clubs-598454 

[jw1739]

This is worth reading too. https://www.ftbl.com.au/news/diabolical-straits-ex-glory-chiefs-damning-verdict-on-up-for-grabs-club-594062

[HughJass]

 

 

[NewConvert]

How come PG (who are broke) get to play West Ham but City never play a visting overseas team?

[Tangerine]

18 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

How come PG (who are broke) get to play West Ham but City never play a visting overseas team?

Maybe ask that the other way round. 

How come City (who remain financially viable) never play a visiting overseas team, but PG who throw all their money into a deal to play West Ham, are broke?

[jw1739]

53 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

How come PG (who are broke) get to play West Ham but City never play a visting overseas team?

We did once. Manchester City. But it was on the Gold Coast because Manchester City got paid to do it by the promoter. Which, if you didn't realise it already (but I know that you do) Manchester City's owners are only interested in money and have none, or precious little, in football. 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/jul/26/kylian-mbappe-to-saudi-talk-shows-football-is-now-poker-for-worlds-richest

[moops]

On 26/07/2023 at 7:40 PM, HughJass said:

Interesting article on the state of the clubs finances https://www.ftbl.com.au/news/a-leagues-fault-lines-exposed-as-fiscal-woes-stalk-clubs-598454 

The PFA is to blame, they got to greedy and didn't care about the game as a whole, leaving most clubs running on the smell of an oily rag. The league was in a good place at one stage, there's been a culmination of things that have contributed, but the PFA has been the most destructive imho.

[jw1739]

10 hours ago, moops said:

The PFA is to blame, they got to greedy and didn't care about the game as a whole, leaving most clubs running on the smell of an oily rag. The league was in a good place at one stage, there's been a culmination of things that have contributed, but the PFA has been the most destructive imho.

Maybe so. But players are part of the supply chain, and any properly run business factors "supply costs" into its business plans, and as I've posted in the Perth thread, it's pretty obvious to me that APL (and FA) just doesn't have a sound business plan that examines worst-case scenarios.

Seems to me it isn't just confined to football, or even sport; time after time government projects are over-reached, over-hyped and under-budgeted, cost and time blow-outs everywhere. Hello there Victoria.

[Tommykins]

11 hours ago, moops said:

The PFA is to blame, they got to greedy and didn't care about the game as a whole, leaving most clubs running on the smell of an oily rag. The league was in a good place at one stage, there's been a culmination of things that have contributed, but the PFA has been the most destructive imho.

Care to expand on that? I can think of a lot of different reasons why the league has had problems, but hadn't really put the PFA in the frame.

[moops]

10 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Maybe so. But players are part of the supply chain, and any properly run business factors "supply costs" into its business plans, and as I've posted in the Perth thread, it's pretty obvious to me that APL (and FA) just doesn't have a sound business plan that examines worst-case scenarios.

Seems to me it isn't just confined to football, or even sport; time after time government projects are over-reached, over-hyped and under-budgeted, cost and time blow-outs everywhere. Hello there Victoria.

https://pfa.net.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Attachment-1-FACTS_BOOK.pdf

Because the business couldn't contril their supply costs, it was mandated to them what that would be, the minimal spend was nearly all the TV money.

[moops]

11 hours ago, Tommykins said:

Care to expand on that? I can think of a lot of different reasons why the league has had problems, but hadn't really put the PFA in the frame.

The thing is that a club is much more than players, it's coaches, support staff, youth set up, travel expenses etc.

A club like CCM couldn't invest in youth and play most of them because of the spend, they had to rely on sponsors and the good will of their owner, but that would have been gobbled up by other expenses, as the player wages took most of the TV money.

Other clubs were paying over inflated wages to players just to pad out the spend, see Hoffman as an example when he was with us. It's also ironic that the minimal wage wasn't risen and stayed around 40k, they could have risen that and just let the market decide what to pay the other players. It's why we see the same journeymen in our league, clubs aren't encouraged to play youth or a NPL prospect because clubs don't want to spend overs on prospects to make the spend.

It left clubs walking a tight rope just to survive and the goodwill of the owners.

Edited July 28, 2023 by moops

[jw1739]

On 28/07/2023 at 8:59 PM, moops said:

The thing is that a club is much more than players, it's coaches, support staff, youth set up, travel expenses etc.

A club like CCM couldn't invest in youth and play most of them because of the spend, they had to rely on sponsors and the good will of their owner, but that would have been gobbled up by other expenses, as the player wages took most of the TV money.

Other clubs were paying over inflated wages to players just to pad out the spend, see Hoffman as an example when he was with us. It's also ironic that the minimal wage wasn't risen and stayed around 40k, they could have risen that and just let the market decide what to pay the other players. It's why we see the same journeymen in our league, clubs aren't encouraged to play youth or a NPL prospect because clubs don't want to spend overs on prospects to make the spend.

It left clubs walking a tight rope just to survive and the goodwill of the owners.

I agree that the "minimum spend" doesn't make sense for clubs.

[NewConvert]

14 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

I agree that the "minimum spend" doesn't make sense for clubs.

Well if there was no bottom floor then the owner would spend only on youth/minimum wage players. This was the case with the Gold Coast team under Clive Palmer as there was no relegation it did not matter if the club came last season after season. The TV money would have been sucked up by Clive. Hence the minimum spend.

I agree that minimum salary should increase as past players have pointed out it is not enough to survive on and actually build a family. I am sure that there are better ways of doing things but I doubt that the APL folk could be arsed to look at alternatives - they are getting their salary.

[jw1739]

12 hours ago, NewConvert said:

Well if there was no bottom floor then the owner would spend only on youth/minimum wage players. This was the case with the Gold Coast team under Clive Palmer as there was no relegation it did not matter if the club came last season after season. The TV money would have been sucked up by Clive. Hence the minimum spend.

I agree that minimum salary should increase as past players have pointed out it is not enough to survive on and actually build a family. I am sure that there are better ways of doing things but I doubt that the APL folk could be arsed to look at alternatives - they are getting their salary.

Are there more realistic alternatives for clubs? Do all players have to be full-time professionals for example? I guess we don't know enough about the balance sheets. But that's a problem because all are in private ownership. In the end, doesn't it all come down to the ownership model?

[NewConvert]

5 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Are there more realistic alternatives for clubs? Do all players have to be full-time professionals for example? I guess we don't know enough about the balance sheets. But that's a problem because all are in private ownership. In the end, doesn't it all come down to the ownership model?

A long time ago the cousin of a friend of mine was on Man U books and he was part time which was not a good place to be because that meant to be able to live he also had another job which meant that he was not able to train to improve. Hence part time salaries are not a good way to improve the players and eventually you get to the point where if they want to start a family they would not be able to afford it.

Alternatives are a salary package that includes accommodation, utilities and health insurance for example.

[jw1739]

1 hour ago, NewConvert said:

A long time ago the cousin of a friend of mine was on Man U books and he was part time which was not a good place to be because that meant to be able to live he also had another job which meant that he was not able to train to improve. Hence part time salaries are not a good way to improve the players and eventually you get to the point where if they want to start a family they would not be able to afford it.

Alternatives are a salary package that includes accommodation, utilities and health insurance for example.

Well, let's say a more flexible contract situation could be looked at? But I doubt that the PFA, having obtained what they have, would ever back away.

My understanding is that NPL clubs do in fact have part-time players and find such a paying job as well. Many of course have been established for quite a time and probably have the connections into local businesses to do so. This was the situation with my non-League club in England and I'd be surprised if it was not still the case for many until you get down to the grassroots local leagues where you play for enjoyment and pay your club's way in cash and kind. 

[HughJass]

6 hours ago, jw1739 said:

My understanding is that NPL clubs do in fact have part-time players and find such a paying job as well. Many of course have been established for quite a time and probably have the connections into local businesses to do so. This was the situation with my non-League club in England and I'd be surprised if it was not still the case for many until you get down to the grassroots local leagues where you play for enjoyment and pay your club's way in cash and kind. 

Nearly every NPL player in Victoria are part time/sem-pro some would be on 60k+ cash for playing and plus their regular jobs but would be rare to find a player just on their playing wage. Teams even offer jobs as part of signing onto the team as long as you make training few nights a week and gameday you'll be right

[citypool]

I went to Matildas last night and I hope one day we could get a quarter of the crowd we got last night because the atmosphere makes a hell of a difference 

[mjake1234]

1 hour ago, citypool said:

I went to Matildas last night and I hope one day we could get a quarter of the crowd we got last night because the atmosphere makes a hell of a difference 

And a lot of that atmosphere comes from having a strong active group. Something that MCFC needs to support and promote.

[jw1739]

This could go in any number of threads, but it's worth reading wherever I put it. Sums it all up for me. Just as Manchester City is no longer the club it used to be, Melbourne City is not the club that once was ours.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2023/jul/31/manchester-citys-ownership-tests-the-values-and-connection-of-a-fanbase?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[HughJass]

Looks like behind closed door friendly against tarneit happening now or shortly 

[MHFC-FAN]

So now that we have a few more signings then 4 or so weeks ago how do people see the best 11 shaping up?

 

            Leckie           Jmac           Jakolis/Nabbout?

    Arslan                                     Antonis/Lapone?

                                Ugarkovic

Galloway   Souprayen/Good?   Good/Nuno?   Talbot

                              Young

[bt50]

3 minutes ago, MHFC-FAN said:

So now that we have a few more signings then 4 or so weeks ago how do people see the best 11 shaping up?

 

            Leckie           Jmac           Jakolis/Nabbout?

    Arslan                                     Antonis/Lapone?

                                Ugarkovic

Galloway   Souprayen/Good?   Good/Nuno?   Talbot

                              Young

About right. I think we'll be still hoping to sign another mid, an 8 type to push Antonis and Lopane to the bench, and another CB or RB depending on what the view Souprayen as. The CB situation might be fairly fluid though,  depending on whether good is staying or reis is being considered as a starter. 

[MHFC-FAN]

17 minutes ago, bt50 said:

About right. I think we'll be still hoping to sign another mid, an 8 type to push Antonis and Lopane to the bench, and another CB or RB depending on what the view Souprayen as. The CB situation might be fairly fluid though,  depending on whether good is staying or reis is being considered as a starter. 

Yeah I would feel more comfortable with another midfielder. As we really don't know what we'll get from Antonis and Lopane. Not at all confident having Nuno as a starter, feel he's past it tbf...

[belaguttman]

My concerns are at the back line: I hope to be convinced that the starting back 4 is strong enough, especially if Good leaves, only Talbot was a starting player for us last season, and I worry about our defensive depth.

Edited August 4, 2023 by belaguttman