A-league expansion

[NewConvert]

8 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Insufficient support on all fronts to make the venture viable in the longer term. It's not just a matter of plonking an franchise down somewhere and expecting it to be successful - I would have thought FFA would have learned that lesson by now. Problem is that FFA and Gallop flip-flop on this issue on a regular basis. IIRC the latest I've seen from him was that any expansion needed to be focussed on centres with at least 1m population. Tassie just doesn't qualify.

Tassie is a hard place for professional sports. The AFL is not interested and last season Martin Flanagan, who was born and raised in Tassie, commented that the local football NPL sides were getting as much TV time as the local AFL clubs. This means  that the opportunity is ripe for the FFA to launch there. But they will run into the same problem that the AFL has, namely that Tassie has two more major population centres in Hobart/Launceston but neither is big enough to generate revenues. I note that when Demetriou was expanding the AFL, Tassie put in a bid headed by the State government, backed by a private consortium headed by Saul Eslake and they didn't get a look in. I personally think that Tassie should work because unlike the Gold Coast or Central Coast it does not have a strong water sports culture. So there is less competition. The local AFL clubs (according to Flanagan) are in the wane, so there is room to organically grow the game there. They would have to compete with bush activities but these are manageable. It will come down to the cost of ground hire that will be a bid killer - if they get a good low cost deal, then I think that it should be possible.

Having said that, I still think that Wollongong should be allowed in. I also don't like having an odd number of teams because I just don't like byes, so for me if Wollongong and Tasmania can produce good quality bids give them each a license.

[HeartinHobart]

10 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Insufficient support on all fronts to make the venture viable in the longer term. It's not just a matter of plonking an franchise down somewhere and expecting it to be successful - I would have thought FFA would have learned that lesson by now. Problem is that FFA and Gallop flip-flop on this issue on a regular basis. IIRC the latest I've seen from him was that any expansion needed to be focussed on centres with at least 1m population. Tassie just doesn't qualify.

I feel I may have a better understanding on this than yourself. Firstly Tasmanians are ridiculously parochial. Hobart Hurricanes regularly sell out Bellerive Oval despite only having mediocre results. The same happen with the Tassie Devils in the NBL in the 90s every week was packed despite never making the playoffs people still backed a local team on a national stage and only because of poor management mostly on the NBLs behalf they folded. 

For years Tasmania rallied for its own AFL team. Had corporate backing even a major sponsor but the AFL chose these larger population areas. Which are still struggling to generate decent crowds.

Now the FFA have the chance to massively leap frog the AFL and commit to the whole state which could have huge benefits. For many years now there has been more registered Soccer players than any other sport in Tasmania. But there has been no reason to support Australian soccer. I have no doubt Soccer could become the number 1 sport in Tasmania simply with the support of the FFA. Remember, it's one thing that David Gallop has long aspired too, for the whole country.

Even targeting these larger population areas are anything then guaranteed to prove successful. Look at this very club. The second club into a sporting city of more than 4.5 million and we consistently  attract just 7000 fans. 

Whether this happens on not it's great to see that the FFA are clearly getting numerous bids in expanding the A League which I'm sure everyone would agree is promising for the future. 

[jw1739]

1 hour ago, HeartinHobart said:

I feel I may have a better understanding on this than yourself. Firstly Tasmanians are ridiculously parochial. Hobart Hurricanes regularly sell out Bellerive Oval despite only having mediocre results. The same happen with the Tassie Devils in the NBL in the 90s every week was packed despite never making the playoffs people still backed a local team on a national stage and only because of poor management mostly on the NBLs behalf they folded. 

For years Tasmania rallied for its own AFL team. Had corporate backing even a major sponsor but the AFL chose these larger population areas. Which are still struggling to generate decent crowds.

Now the FFA have the chance to massively leap frog the AFL and commit to the whole state which could have huge benefits. For many years now there has been more registered Soccer players than any other sport in Tasmania. But there has been no reason to support Australian soccer. I have no doubt Soccer could become the number 1 sport in Tasmania simply with the support of the FFA. Remember, it's one thing that David Gallop has long aspired too, for the whole country.

Even targeting these larger population areas are anything then guaranteed to prove successful. Look at this very club. The second club into a sporting city of more than 4.5 million and we consistently  attract just 7000 fans. 

Whether this happens on not it's great to see that the FFA are clearly getting numerous bids in expanding the A League which I'm sure everyone would agree is promising for the future. 

I lived in Hobart for 15 years. And actually used to go to KGV at Glenorchy on a semi-regular basis. So I do plead some experience of the game there. And TBH I think our experience with Heart/City adds an enormous amount of fuel to the argument - based in a big city, the backing of CFG, a squad with plenty of really talented players in it, and yet piss-poor attendances.

We agree on the main point though - the desirability of increasing the number of clubs if we can do it on a sustainable basis.

[Jimmy]

Wollongong and Auckland.

Next!

[Dylan]

Melbourne Heart

[jeffplz]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Aleague/comments/5cv9hy/aleague_expansion_south_melbourne_to_bid_for/

 

gl another blue team in melbourne

Edited November 14, 2016 by jeffplz

[ecguymer]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/football/south-melbourne-to-submit-bid-for-aleague-licence-and-seek-inclusion-in-competition-from-next-season/news-story/47d0f45da08a932c2c11cb95a52a9b4e

so they are actually going to have a crack at it........

[Thrillhouse]

fuck these cunts off

[kingofhearts]

Hopefully they get in and Victory gets removed

[strider]

the last thing the world needs in a greek injection into the A-League

we know how bad the arabs are... and the greeks are pretty much arab 

[Dylan]

There will be three teams in Sydney before Melbourne. 

[Shahanga]

Melbourne city should put in a bid. Might help get some more cash out of CFG.

[Tony999]

F#%k me, can't South Melbourne give it a rest??? You have no hope now buzz off once and for all!

[jw1739]

10 hours ago, ecguymer said:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/football/south-melbourne-to-submit-bid-for-aleague-licence-and-seek-inclusion-in-competition-from-next-season/news-story/47d0f45da08a932c2c11cb95a52a9b4e

so they are actually going to have a crack at it........

We can only hope that this fails and they are told to get lost once and for all. Going back to any semblance of the NSL days would be a disaster for the A-League. 

[Jovan]

43 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

We can only hope that this fails and they are told to get lost once and for all. Going back to any semblance of the NSL days would be a disaster for the A-League. 

I'm not sure this is the best approach. 

To quash any hope of EVER being able to feild a team at the highest level has no benefit to any party. Obviously a South Melbourne in the mould of the NSL era would be counterproductive and be a huge mistake.  But to prevent any hope of being able to one day getting to the A League for me is silly. A clear model or template of what is required should be made public so any future proposed clubs can work towards. 

There will be a time when those traditional clubs will have developed and evolved enough to be A League compatible. 

[Tony999]

 

1 minute ago, Jovan said:

I'm not sure this is the best approach. 

To quash any hope of EVER being able to feild a team at the highest level has no benefit to any party. Obviously a South Melbourne in the mould of the NSL era would be counterproductive and be a huge mistake.  But to prevent any hope of being able to one day getting to the A League for me is silly. A clear model or template of what is required should be made public so any future proposed clubs can work towards. 

There will be a time when those traditional clubs will have developed and evolved enough to be A League compatible. 

Jovan, it is the best approach. They need to be told to fuck off and say you will never get into the A-league. Period. I spoke to my Greek colleague here at work who supports Victory and he wants them to f off as well. Not personally attacking Greeks btw.

[jw1739]

55 minutes ago, Jovan said:

I'm not sure this is the best approach. 

To quash any hope of EVER being able to feild a team at the highest level has no benefit to any party. Obviously a South Melbourne in the mould of the NSL era would be counterproductive and be a huge mistake.  But to prevent any hope of being able to one day getting to the A League for me is silly. A clear model or template of what is required should be made public so any future proposed clubs can work towards. 

There will be a time when those traditional clubs will have developed and evolved enough to be A League compatible. 

Fair enough. I was referring to the club in its present form (as I understand it). I agree that a major area in which FFA falls down is the absence of that "clear model or template" to which you refer. I would have thought that that would be one of the A-League Head's major objectives. The "Whole of Football Plan" ("We are Football") released in 2015 contains only one quantitative statement about the A-League, that "Every major Australian centre with a population over 500,000 has the market size to host an A-League club." The other statements are wishy-washy motherhood statements about "funding, football development, stadium capacity and facilities, and community engagement..." and the need to be "...professionally run, and prove a concrete demand based on participation and population in a region." FMD, that's not a "plan", just PR gobbledegook.

[Shahanga]

Bill Longgreekname was on SEn just now (excellent interview) putting his best foot forward for the case for South Melbourne. The interview covered a lot of ground and didn't shy away from The Hellenic Elephant in the room.

reckons they've come a long way since they ditched the Hellas in their name.

I still think they'll attract a lot of undesirables mind.

[KSK_47]

To be fair to them they are (and always have been) a much more professionally run club than Heart ever was. 

Putting aside the efnik thing, I think it would be insane to introduce a third Melbourne team within the next few years, but I would like to see some of the still existing traditional clubs being give some kind of incentive to keep operating like eventually being given the chance to move upwards

[raw10]

Here is an idea, why don't we create a proper second tier competition, set some benchmark, like crowd levels, profit margins, marketability etc and if the club tick all the boxes, bring them to the A Legaue. That way, FFA can allow them to prove themselves before letting them jump in only to see them fail.. Over time, we can have sustainable teams in both tier, and we can start having promotions and relegations... It will not be an instant thing but at the end of the day sustainable enough to bring all second tier clubs to an acceptable level.

Edited November 16, 2016 by raw10

[jw1739]

On 11/16/2016 at 2:41 PM, raw10 said:

Here is an idea, why don't we create a proper second tier competition, set some benchmark, like crowd levels, profit margins, marketability etc and if the club tick all the boxes, bring them to the A Legaue. That way, FFA can allow them to prove themselves before letting them jump in only to see them fail.. Over time, we can have sustainable teams in both tier, and we can start having promotions and relegations... It will not be an instant thing but at the end of the day sustainable enough to bring all second tier clubs to an acceptable level.

"Whole of Football Plan - We are Football", about May 2015, page 84.

"A-League competition expansion will come as a product of sustainable commercial growth, via a managed process of 'in and out' as circumstances arise, rather than a relegation and promotion system based purely on results. This is critical to retain the strategic market placement of clubs which underpins the commercial viability of the league."

Edited November 17, 2016 by jw1739

[Geo400]

5 hours ago, jw1739 said:

"Whole of Football Plan - We are Football", about May 2015, page 84.

"A-League competition expansion will come as a product of sustainable commercial growth, via a managed process of 'in and out' as circumstances arise, rather than a relegation and promotion system based purely on results. This critical to retain the strategic market placement of clubs which underpins the commercial viability of the league."

 

Yup, and this is going to kill our national team prospects, the cracks have been appearing at underage level for some time, where do you think the next step will be?

our football culture here is commercially driven, the actual football aspect is deemed secondary at best, these muppets at ffa headquarters won't even stop the league for an international break, completely out of touch.

but yeh let's keep following the American model, they got flogged 4-0 at Costa Rica today and also won't be going to the World Cup.

We need more professional clubs in the top flight, a professional 2nd tier and pro/relegation down the track no ifs or buts. it won't happen, getting smacked around by Thailand will be the norm soon enough as we produce peanuts, as far as players go what we had in ten years ago at Socceroos level compare to now is laughable.

 

[daniboi]

If horror of horrors happens and South Melbourne get granted an A-League license, where does that leave us, not just as a club but individual fans? I don't know if I continue to support the league if we go back to the shit old days of all the ethnic shit. Don't get me wrong, I'm a foundation member and love this club, but honestly don't know what the future holds if the FFA let's those flogs in.

From a membership point of view it would hit the tards more than us, so I don't have any great concerns from that end.

Thoughts

[Chris p]

Wont happen 

[neio]

South Melbourne won't happen in next expansion, I've heard that fremantle city is pretty much set to go,  and I think Canberra will get a license.

South Melbourne, Wollongong and tassie will be in next lot of expansion in 5-6 years time 

[KSK_47]

4 hours ago, daniboi said:

If horror of horrors happens and South Melbourne get granted an A-League license, where does that leave us, not just as a club but individual fans? I don't know if I continue to support the league if we go back to the shit old days of all the ethnic shit. Don't get me wrong, I'm a foundation member and love this club, but honestly don't know what the future holds if the FFA let's those flogs in.

From a membership point of view it would hit the tards more than us, so I don't have any great concerns from that end.

Thoughts

1- I doubt it will happen

2- Our target demographic is very different to theirs. They will mainly be appealing to ex-Souths supporters (as you mention will mostly be Victory supporters) while we will still continue to chase middle class families who are new to domestic football.

3- On the pitch we will just have to spank them and show everyone who is boss

[hedaik]

I lived in Perth and followed Glory during the NSL days so although I knew the troubles SM caused I don't have the same strong feelings about them as other people do. 

I'd be happy to have them in purely just because it gives us another ground to go to and we get more games in Melbourne. 

[fensaddler]

Read recently that a strong candidate for a new franchise might well be Geelong.  A Tassie franchise pitched in the last week, but was knocked back.  Think that will happen eventually though.

[Tony999]

South Melbourne Hellas, Melbourne Croatia, Preston Macedonia, Heidelberg Alexandros, Brunswick Juventus.....ethnic clubs have no hope of getting in. Let's move along.

Next.

[Embee]

6 minutes ago, fensaddler said:

Read recently that a strong candidate for a new franchise might well be Geelong.  A Tassie franchise pitched in the last week, but was knocked back.  Think that will happen eventually though.

I think there was a bit of a 180 on that, I expect they'll get in during this expansion

[fensaddler]

3 minutes ago, Embee said:

I think there was a bit of a 180 on that, I expect they'll get in during this expansion

I'd agree with you.  It's an obvious pick providing it has a good business plan.

[Geo400]

What kind of fan turns on his club and the sport just because another team enters the league? Yes im an old school south melbourne fan..id be forced to double my match intake. But its like me saying id stop going if melbourne knights came in...i dont like the knights, buf why would that change my support of city? Fair dinkum some people need to pull their heads in victory flogs are worse than all these teams, fwiw they wont give the license to sm..the ffa want new franchises that they have a reasonable amount of control over..south wouldnt need the ffa and that wouldnt sit well with them..having a juniors system and social club is considered a sin at ffa headquarters.

[Kinnibari]

I feel 'eh' about this either way. I guess it would mean more 'away' games in Melbourne to go to. Honestly though I don't think they'll get up, think FFA would want more geographical diversity than 3 teams in the Melbourne CBD.

[Geo400]

It depends, a lot of these bids are regional ones and that alone comes with a lot of risk in terms of viability. Not exactly fishing where the fish are. I have south sydney as a shoe in. Brisbane strikers wont get it because they dont have a stadium and playing at suncorp would cripple them, canberra are in bed with the mariners so that looks dead in terms of getting a standalone team. Tasmania and geelong seem a bit far fetched to be honest.  SM stacks up well against all those bids..in fact better than all of them..but i dont see it happening. 2nd team in adelaide you can either have west or adelaide city..no wogs allowed so forget it. Perth absolute no chance.

A lot of these areas would be ideal for 2nd division teams imo.

[CityWildcat]

2 hours ago, Kinnibari said:

I feel 'eh' about this either way. I guess it would mean more 'away' games in Melbourne to go to. Honestly though I don't think they'll get up, think FFA would want more geographical diversity than 3 teams in the Melbourne CBD.

EXACTLY.  Plus the negative-history element.  It all adds up to Snowball In Hell FC

[KSK_47]

We can probably merge this thread with the South Melbourne fc thread yeah?

[jw1739]

40 minutes ago, KSK_47 said:

We can probably merge this thread with the South Melbourne fc thread yeah?

Good idea. Done.

[ecguymer]

http://www.mfootball.com.au/time-to-merge-the-old-with-the-new-south-melbourne/

if this article is accurate: North Queensland, West Adelaide, Brisbane Strikers, Canberra and Wollongong have also made bids

[jw1739]

29 minutes ago, ecguymer said:

http://www.mfootball.com.au/time-to-merge-the-old-with-the-new-south-melbourne/

if this article is accurate: North Queensland, West Adelaide, Brisbane Strikers, Canberra and Wollongong have also made bids

I'm afraid I just cannot believe that there is sufficient money or interest in Australia for all six bids to result in sustainable clubs.

[ecguymer]

....I wonder how many of the other old NSL clubs in Melbourne are currently throwing together there own submissions to counter South Melbourne's.....that or formal objections full of butthurt.....