A-league expansion

[Jovan]

20 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

The first thing that causes me to look very, very cautiously and sceptically at a National Second Division is that the AFL doesn't have one. That sets my warning bells ringing every time people start to discuss the Second Division, promotion and relegation, expansion into rural and regional areas, etc. etc. 

This is probably the reason why I think it's actually plausible. Even though the AFL has been pretty successful in changing it's operations since the early 90s I would suggest that alot of what they do is holding back their game. The way and ideology of the AFL isn't the be all and end all way to run an elite professional sport. 

But all of this is basically a pointless discussion because the FFA are locked in their ways and this radical change is pretty much out of the question. 

[bt50]

1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

The first thing that causes me to look very, very cautiously and sceptically at a National Second Division is that the AFL doesn't have one. That sets my warning bells ringing every time people start to discuss the Second Division, promotion and relegation, expansion into rural and regional areas, etc. etc. 

To be fair JW I don’t think expansion, let alone promotion/relegation is even on the AFL’s radar at this point in time. Pro/Rel has never been associated with Aussie Rules football and tbh, in a comp as evenly spread as the AFL it doesn’t really need it. Coming from an AFL background I’d be shocked if they looked at expansion again within the next 10 years, and possibly 20. They simply don’t need it being a competition with no direct rivals.

 

As far as football goes we’ve got direct rivals everywhere and pro/rel is so engrained in the football culture worldwide we feel like we are missing out here. IMO its still a good 15-20 years away at least, and that’s probably assuming the game keeps on its upward trajectory.
I’ll admit I’m suspicious as to whether we can even afford to expand at present given the clubs making losses and the FFA being fairly cash strapped as it is, but the public and media pressure has grown to the point now where something has/is going to happen.
It does seem there’s a plethora of people putting their hands up to throw away their cash so it’s in the FFA’s interest to expand, provided the club doesn’t fall over. An expansion club falling over would be a disaster, but on the flip side if they can hold their own it’s a massive bonus.

For mine the FFA should award the two best business cases the licenses by the end of this season at the latest, with the view to launch an A-League team for the 18/19 season. A season in the NPL to get the ball rolling for 17/18 could be an option for the sake of ironing out the creases and developing some top line NPL talent. This gives the clubs the best possible chance to build the club and market it appropriately, and not making it a hack job thrown in.
IF there are more than 2 sound clubs ready to go, bring the next two best in for the 19/20 season, in pairs so that we don’t have a stack of byes & midweek games. 12 teams with a 33 game season sounds pretty good to me, 14 teams means either a 39 or 26 game season.

As to which teams they should let in, I'm not going to pretend i have any idea about the cases each consortium are putting forward. Anyone not directly involved more than likely has no idea and is speculating. The Brisbane Strikers, Woollongong, South Melbourne and Tasmania appear to have the strongest cases but even then that might be just smoke and mirrors from the respective bids.

Edited November 22, 2016 by bt50

[ecguymer]

....I wouldn't be surprised if all the negative talk about the NPL coming from some quarters wasn't partly responsible for the reluctance from the FFA to look at a B league. Wether people like it or not, the fact remains that the NPL is the current second-tier competition in the country. I am aware of the gap in quality between the the A-league and the NPL, but is a B league going to be of any better quality than the NPL? If it is, how? And if not (or have it be not that much better), how is that going to be a marketable product and generate the extra revenue needed for the added expenses of each team needing to fly somewhere every other week during the season? Personally I'd like to see the NPL (and possibly also the youth league) improved a fair bit before people start looking at installing another league

[Shahanga]

3 hours ago, ecguymer said:

....I wouldn't be surprised if all the negative talk about the NPL coming from some quarters wasn't partly responsible for the reluctance from the FFA to look at a B league. Wether people like it or not, the fact remains that the NPL is the current second-tier competition in the country. I am aware of the gap in quality between the the A-league and the NPL, but is a B league going to be of any better quality than the NPL? If it is, how? And if not (or have it be not that much better), how is that going to be a marketable product and generate the extra revenue needed for the added expenses of each team needing to fly somewhere every other week during the season? Personally I'd like to see the NPL (and possibly also the youth league) improved a fair bit before people start looking at installing another league

An A2 league would be better quality because the best players would be spread between less clubs.  Currently we have what 100 or so NPL clubs in Australia?  Now thats say 2300 players.  You bring in an A2 league with say 10 teams and that's 230 players, or if you like the top 10%.  It simply must be a better competition. 

PS The other things is a truly national A2 league may attract better foreigners than you see in the NPL at present.  That alone would lift the standard substantially.

Edited November 22, 2016 by Shahanga

[NewConvert]

7 hours ago, bt50 said:

To be fair JW I don’t think expansion, let alone promotion/relegation is even on the AFL’s radar at this point in time. Pro/Rel has never been associated with Aussie Rules football and tbh, in a comp as evenly spread as the AFL it doesn’t really need it. Coming from an AFL background I’d be shocked if they looked at expansion again within the next 10 years, and possibly 20. They simply don’t need it being a competition with no direct rivals.

 

 

Let me correct you on that statement - when I was a kid there was a competition called the VFA which is from where the VFL sprang from and eventually became the AFL. Now the VFA did have promotion and relegation, for all of its 100+years of existence. Noticed the past tense - it eventually died out and was absorbed by the AFL.

[Blackmissionary]

1 hour ago, NewConvert said:

Let me correct you on that statement - when I was a kid there was a competition called the VFA which is from where the VFL sprang from and eventually became the AFL. Now the VFA did have promotion and relegation, for all of its 100+years of existence. Noticed the past tense - it eventually died out and was absorbed by the AFL.

Not for the whole 100 [sic] years of the VFA's existence, more like from the early 1960s to the late 1980s. It ended up being one of the thing which dragged the VFA down.

As an aside, during the 1940s there were discussions between the VFA and VFL to reunite, but the VFL didn't want to have automatic relegation, so it didn't happen.

[jw1739]

44 minutes ago, Blackmissionary said:

Not for the whole 100 [sic] years of the VFA's existence, more like from the early 1960s to the late 1980s. It ended up being one of the thing which dragged the VFA down.

As an aside, during the 1940s there were discussions between the VFA and VFL to reunite, but the VFL didn't want to have automatic relegation, so it didn't happen.

Assuming that this is accurate, it's an interesting read. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victorian_Football_League 

[Blackmissionary]

50 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Assuming that this is accurate, it's an interesting read. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victorian_Football_League 

My take is that it's pretty well referenced and gets across many of the problems the VFA faced as a second tier aussie rules competition.

[Dylan]

Fuck we have some weird usernames on this forum

[strider]

21 minutes ago, Dylan said:

Fuck we have some weird usernames on this forum

can u stick to 1 display pic please bro u confuse me. fuckin meme savvy kent 

[n i k o]

@Blackmissionary just needs to keep a watchful eye out on @strider

[bt50]

12 hours ago, NewConvert said:

Let me correct you on that statement - when I was a kid there was a competition called the VFA which is from where the VFL sprang from and eventually became the AFL. Now the VFA did have promotion and relegation, for all of its 100+years of existence. Noticed the past tense - it eventually died out and was absorbed by the AFL.

Yeh VFA evolved into the VFL in the mid 90's after the rebranding of the VFL to AFL and was essentially laid to ruin when the AFL Reserves folded and AFL clubs started aligning with the famous old VFA clubs. All that's left of it these days is a bastardised competition which ironically has seen most of the Victorian AFL clubs reenter Reserves sides as the former VFA sides die out. Understandable how it all happened given how many AFL clubs were on deaths door in the 90's but a horrible shame nonetheless.

There are still instances of promotion/relegation throughout Victoria (see WDFL and the Ammo's) and prob the rest of the country but its never been an integral part of the Aussie Rules culture. My local league has 18 teams and has been looking at it for the past 5-6 years but its pretty much unworkable due to how it affects junior and netball teams.

[Geo400]

Most of these bids that don't get up will just vanish, Tasmania is a prime eg, stamoulis and beltecky are not funding a B/A2 team, its A league or bust, likewise for any other generic start up, Geelong etc.

a b league will be made up of the likes of Adelaide city, south Melbourne, Brisbane strikers etc, the ffa knows this and that's why we will never see it.

[jw1739]

2 hours ago, Geo400 said:

Most of these bids that don't get up will just vanish

I think we can agree on that!

[HeartinHobart]

3 hours ago, Geo400 said:

Most of these bids that don't get up will just vanish, Tasmania is a prime eg, stamoulis and beltecky are not funding a B/A2 team, its A league or bust, likewise for any other generic start up, Geelong etc.

a b league will be made up of the likes of Adelaide city, south Melbourne, Brisbane strikers etc, the ffa knows this and that's why we will never see it.

Tasmania's bid will get up. 

[Tony999]

So when's Apex Utd coming in?

[Geo400]

6 hours ago, HeartinHobart said:

Tasmania's bid will get up. 

Hopefully, long way to go. Going to be a lot of speculation over the next year.

[Tony999]

Get Tasmania in so they get all the supporters before they follow some pissy Tasmanian AFL team that gets in.

Next.

[bt50]

1 minute ago, Tony999 said:

Get Tasmania in so they get all the supporters before they follow some pissy Tasmanian AFL team that gets in.

Next.

The AFL will never put a team in Tassie. Take it to the bank.

Best chance is a relocation.

Edited November 23, 2016 by bt50

[Embee]

3 minutes ago, bt50 said:

The AFL will never put a team in Tassie. Take it to the bank.

Best chance is a relocation.

Tassie Kangaroos

[bt50]

3 minutes ago, Embee said:

Tassie Kangaroos

They tried.

[jw1739]

3 hours ago, HeartinHobart said:

Tasmania's bid will get up. 

I don't think so. It is contrary to everything Gallop has said on the subject. And if it does it will go the way of Gold Coast and Townsville.

[HeartinHobart]

45 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

I don't think so. It is contrary to everything Gallop has said on the subject. And if it does it will go the way of Gold Coast and Townsville.

Financially it's the most stable. Not only because of the financial backing from those Victory pricks. I've heard a major sponsor has already been secured if the bid is successful but also of extremely good stadium deals. Only 5000 per game is required to make it financially viable.

Sure a Tassie side won't enter the competition and grab the countries attention like The Wanderers did but to increase the size of the competition with a team that is close to impossible to fail is a no brainier. 

[Tony999]

Who else can possibly be a hit like WSW? Can't see anyone or even close to. I'd rather have 10 stable clubs with supporters than have 12/13/14 clubs with some having instability. 

[n i k o]

The ferry trip will be great that's for sure. 

[Tony999]

1 hour ago, n i k o said:

The ferry trip will be great that's for sure. 

Wouldn't recommend it. Not for one who is light on the stomach. 

[strider]

we can finally use flares on the spirit of tasmania

RBB:

Edited November 23, 2016 by strider

[hakz7]

12 hours ago, strider said:

we can finally use flares on the spirit of tasmania

RBB:

 

[elieanid]

1 hour ago, hakz7 said:

 

Was going too say.....Tasmania away on the Spirit of Tasmania would be epic. BUMP!!! (X 1000000)

[ecguymer]

And today, Fox Sports has reported that "shock candidate" Auckland City FC  have put there hand up.........

[Tesla]

A team in Auckland should be number 1 on the list TBH.

[ecguymer]

25 minutes ago, Tesla said:

A team in Auckland should be number 1 on the list TBH.

the only real downside I can see for an Auckland team would be the additional paperwork (would need to get the same clearances from Football NZ (or whatever they call themselves), the OFC, the AFC and FIFA that Wellington has)

[jw1739]

10 hours ago, ecguymer said:

the only real downside I can see for an Auckland team would be the additional paperwork (would need to get the same clearances from Football NZ (or whatever they call themselves), the OFC, the AFC and FIFA that Wellington has)

That's just an result of the current organization of FIFA and ought to be manageable. The Oceania Confederation is really a bit of a rump organization, and IMO FIFA should look at how it could be bought into the Asian Confederation.

[Geo400]

Auckland city will never happen, could you imagine the outrage here if another New Zealand club who is Croatian in origin came in? 

 

[bt50]

Auckland would be good for the league if done correctly imo. Might force FFNZ to pull their shit together if they can two sides competing against each other properly.

[Geo400]

With the amount of expansion interest being generated from within our country, I'd be leaning towards dumping the Phoenix let alone having 2 from there in, I could not care less about kiwi football.

[jw1739]

8 minutes ago, Geo400 said:

With the amount of expansion interest being generated from within our country, I'd be leaning towards dumping the Phoenix let alone having 2 from there in, I could not care less about kiwi football.

Phoenix already have three more seasons after this one.

[Geo400]

56 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Phoenix already have three more seasons after this one.

Yes I know, 2 teams comes in with this phase of expansion, 3 come in the next, Phoenix get dumped.

[CityWildcat]

1 hour ago, Geo400 said:

With the amount of expansion interest being generated from within our country, I'd be leaning towards dumping the Phoenix let alone having 2 from there in, I could not care less about kiwi football.

Errr.... it's actually the A-League.   Super Rugby,  the NRL:, the NBL, and the netball benefit hugely from an NZ presence.  (Although Super Rugby could exist as NZ only, to be honest)    As long as everyone can afford the home and away travel costs, what's the issue?  Two teams from NZ would be better than three in Melbourne, to my Kiwi mind.  Although I do admit the fanbase case over there does not really stack up yet.

Speaking of which.... Let's be honest. Our MCFC does NOT have a big and strong enough fanbase yet to make a third Melbourne A-League side a welcome prospect.    I actually fear it.  Come back when we average 15,000 fans a game.

Edited November 26, 2016 by CityWildcat

[Geo400]

Super rugby is not our national comp, the NBL is a joke that nobody has cared for since the late 90s with limited expansion appeal,, the nrl has them in because a lot of kiwis are spread around the league and they come out in force all over the country, a large percentage of storm fans are kiwis for eg, in our code they offer absolutely nothing, I'd rather have 6 teams in Melbourne than that lot. it's not our job to help nz football. They served a purpose for a while but time is running out IMO.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Geo400