Round 10 away to Smurfs

[Victards]

14 minutes ago, jeffplz said:

http://www.foxsports.com.au/video/football/a-league/press-conferences/city-press-conference!589274

 

JVS loses it at the refs, particularly after 5:00

Probably one of the first times I have to agree with everything he has to say and feel his frustrations in regards to how player theatrics are treated in this country. The amount of attention Fernando's theatrics has gotten tonight instead of his goal is fucking ridiculous! Only in this country. This bullshit, made up notion that its not the "australian way" is an absolute joke. Understandable at times, but for fuck sake, this happens all around the world, why are we so special to all of a sudden take a stand against it? Because of this, it effects us as to how we, and almost every other team in the league, play (Fuck the others, I want to focus on us in this point in time). We now see Bruno being pinned down, pulled, and held at almost any time he gets close to the ball and nothing is being given, countless examples of this have been seen over the past couple of weeks and tonight. So much attention has now gone into how players act when there is contact, that referees are now unable to find consistency in what is legit and what is not, and it's only a matter of time until someone's leg is broken, and they'll go down with theatrics, and it'll be waved play on. This thing we have going on in this country in regards to the "Australian culture" has been fucking me off for a while now and i am sick of hearing and reading about it.

[Chris p]

15 minutes ago, Victards said:

Probably one of the first times I have to agree with everything he has to say and feel his frustrations in regards to how player theatrics are treated in this country. The amount of attention Fernando's theatrics has gotten tonight instead of his goal is fucking ridiculous! Only in this country. This bullshit, made up notion that its not the "australian way" is an absolute joke. Understandable at times, but for fuck sake, this happens all around the world, why are we so special to all of a sudden take a stand against it? Because of this, it effects us as to how we, and almost every other team in the league, play (Fuck the others, I want to focus on us in this point in time). We now see Bruno being pinned down, pulled, and held at almost any time he gets close to the ball and nothing is being given, countless examples of this have been seen over the past couple of weeks and tonight. So much attention has now gone into how players act when there is contact, that referees are now unable to find consistency in what is legit and what is not, and it's only a matter of time until someone's leg is broken, and they'll go down with theatrics, and it'll be waved play on. This thing we have going on in this country in regards to the "Australian culture" has been fucking me off for a while now and i am sick of hearing and reading about it.

Agreed. 

[KSK_47]

18 minutes ago, Victards said:

Probably one of the first times I have to agree with everything he has to say and feel his frustrations in regards to how player theatrics are treated in this country. The amount of attention Fernando's theatrics has gotten tonight instead of his goal is fucking ridiculous! Only in this country. This bullshit, made up notion that its not the "australian way" is an absolute joke. Understandable at times, but for fuck sake, this happens all around the world, why are we so special to all of a sudden take a stand against it? Because of this, it effects us as to how we, and almost every other team in the league, play (Fuck the others, I want to focus on us in this point in time). We now see Bruno being pinned down, pulled, and held at almost any time he gets close to the ball and nothing is being given, countless examples of this have been seen over the past couple of weeks and tonight. So much attention has now gone into how players act when there is contact, that referees are now unable to find consistency in what is legit and what is not, and it's only a matter of time until someone's leg is broken, and they'll go down with theatrics, and it'll be waved play on. This thing we have going on in this country in regards to the "Australian culture" has been fucking me off for a while now and i am sick of hearing and reading about it.

Oh my god! We have our own unique culture! Its disgraceful!

Fuck the theatrics and fuck anyone that thinks its ok. 

[Torn Asunder]

I agree. Who gives a shite if a player carries on a bit and play acts. Boo em, tell em to get up and get on with it, but for fuck sake, referee the game fairly. If it's a foul, pay it, but don't penalise a player who is fouled just because they are a theatrical player. The amount of carry on over player theatrics is actually far more theatrical than the theatrics themselves. Its the world game, not the Aussie game, and as JVS said, passion and theatrics is part of the deal. 

Edited December 9, 2016 by Torn Asunder

[KSK_47]

1 minute ago, Torn Asunder said:

I agree. Who gives a shite if a player carries on a bit and play acts. Boo em, tell em to get up ang get on with it, but for fuck sake, referee the game fairly. If it's a foul, pay it, but don't penalise a player who is fouled just because they are a theatrical player. The amount of carry on over player theatrics is actually far more theatrical than the theatrics themselves. Its the world game, not the Aussie game, and as JVS said, passion and theatrics is part of the deal. 

Cannot disagree with you any more here. Keep that shit out of our game. Because they accept something overseas we have to have to automatically accept it here? Thats total bullshit. In south america its common and an accepted part of the game for fans to shoot fireworks at each other so should we start doing that too?

[jeffplz]

8 minutes ago, KSK_47 said:

Cannot disagree with you any more here. Keep that shit out of our game. Because they accept something overseas we have to have to automatically accept it here? Thats total bullshit. In south america its common and an accepted part of the game for fans to shoot fireworks at each other so should we start doing that too?

As JVS said, there's a difference betwenn diving or simulation (where there is legitimately no contact) and theatrics, which is what Brandan does (to exagerrate actual illegal contact)

Edited December 9, 2016 by jeffplz

[KSK_47]

4 minutes ago, jeffplz said:

 theatrics, which is what Brandan does (to exagerrate actual illegal contact)

Theatrics is simulation.

[Chris p]

2 minutes ago, KSK_47 said:

Theatrics is simulation.

You need to find a way to deal with it. It shouldnt be a bigger talking point than the game 

[KSK_47]

5 minutes ago, Chris p said:

You need to find a way to deal with it. It shouldnt be a bigger talking point than the game 

It shouldnt be a part of the game at all. Like it or not most Australians hate that shit and if it happens it will be talked about and rightly criticised.

Last week people were calling for Broich's head because of his play acting and saying he should be suspended etc. But when our players do it its suddenly part of the game and we need to deal with it. 

[Chris p]

4 hours ago, KSK_47 said:

It shouldnt be a part of the game at all. Like it or not most Australians hate that shit and if it happens it will be talked about and rightly criticised.

Last week people were calling for Broich's head because of his play acting and saying he should be suspended etc. But when our players do it its suddenly part of the game and we need to deal with it. 

I didnt see the Broich incident, i was too busy concentrating on the tactics the formation etc. that's what a real football fan does 

[Dylan]

Can see Sydney winning the premiership and us winning the championship 

[Dylan]

As far as I could tell Sydney came out and hacked all game which I couldnt care less. But if I were our players, I would overact too. Hacking is 'cheating' just as much as overacting is IMO. I know when I play (in probably the lowest level in vic mind you haha) If I know a team is hacking I am always thinking, well fuck them if they are going to do that, I'm milking it for all its worth. 

Edited December 9, 2016 by Dylan

[n i k o]

6 hours ago, KSK_47 said:

It shouldnt be a part of the game at all. Like it or not most Australians hate that shit and if it happens it will be talked about and rightly criticised.

Last week people were calling for Broich's head because of his play acting and saying he should be suspended etc. But when our players do it its suddenly part of the game and we need to deal with it. 

JVS main point, which I agreed with, is a foul is committed and a player goes down theatrically. Now because of the Australian way this is deemed wrong in the eyes of Aussies and refs are not paying free kicks from them. The incident itself would have been given a foul in its own right. But JVS is saying that because of the response to the foul the refs are not paying these frees anymore.

I don't want play acting at every opportunity or simulation to that degree. But the point is a foul is committed and it should be paid. Now if a player goes down to easily then he can be reprimanded accordingly. But not paying free kicks because it's not the 'Aussie way' even though they are clear frees is wrong. 

[Dylan]

13 minutes ago, n i k o said:

JVS main point, which I agreed with, is a foul is committed and a player goes down theatrically. Now because of the Australian way this is deemed wrong in the eyes of Aussies and refs are not paying free kicks from them. The incident itself would have been given a foul in its own right. But JVS is saying that because of the response to the foul the refs are not paying these frees anymore.

I don't want play acting at every opportunity or simulation to that degree. But the point is a foul is committed and it should be paid. Now if a player goes down to easily then he can be reprimanded accordingly. But not paying free kicks because it's not the 'Aussie way' even though they are clear frees is wrong. 

Just like against Brisbane when North clearly pulled back Fornaroli in the box to allow Theo to get their first. 

[KSK_47]

4 hours ago, Chris p said:

I didnt see the Broich incident, i was too busy concentrating on the tactics the formation etc. that's what a real football fan does 

Sorry north not broich. Or didnt you see that either because you were watching the game like a real football fan lol. Please teach me how to be a real fan like you oh superior one!

Edited December 9, 2016 by KSK_47

[belaguttman]

8 hours ago, Victards said:

Probably one of the first times I have to agree with everything he has to say and feel his frustrations in regards to how player theatrics are treated in this country. The amount of attention Fernando's theatrics has gotten tonight instead of his goal is fucking ridiculous! Only in this country. This bullshit, made up notion that its not the "australian way" is an absolute joke. Understandable at times, but for fuck sake, this happens all around the world, why are we so special to all of a sudden take a stand against it? Because of this, it effects us as to how we, and almost every other team in the league, play (Fuck the others, I want to focus on us in this point in time). We now see Bruno being pinned down, pulled, and held at almost any time he gets close to the ball and nothing is being given, countless examples of this have been seen over the past couple of weeks and tonight. So much attention has now gone into how players act when there is contact, that referees are now unable to find consistency in what is legit and what is not, and it's only a matter of time until someone's leg is broken, and they'll go down with theatrics, and it'll be waved play on. This thing we have going on in this country in regards to the "Australian culture" has been fucking me off for a while now and i am sick of hearing and reading about it.

This is the problem with theatrics in Australia, we get enough pf it in Parliament that we are sick of it and when we see it on the football field it only detracts from the player and his performance. We spend all the time talking about his simulation and little time on his abilities and we are his supporters, how are future fans likely to see it? It also means that when we have players with genuine injuries they risk being ignored by the ref as we have a reputation for theatrics. Very few 50:50 decisions will go our way - this is already happening

[Tony999]

Poor Bruno. He will get kicked around for the rest of the season now and get squat in return.

[KSK_47]

56 minutes ago, n i k o said:

JVS main point, which I agreed with, is a foul is committed and a player goes down theatrically. Now because of the Australian way this is deemed wrong in the eyes of Aussies and refs are not paying free kicks from them. The incident itself would have been given a foul in its own right. But JVS is saying that because of the response to the foul the refs are not paying these frees anymore.

Thats fine. But what i am saying is that simulation should be punished too. I dont think not giving the free kick is necessarily the right thing to do, but it should never be simply accepted because its ok in other parts of the world. Thats such a bullshit justification for bullshit behavior.

Edited December 9, 2016 by KSK_47

[Alexxxandro]

Reporter: "what do you say to your players when they do react in these ways regardless of the foul commieted. The more theatrical response?"

JVS "Look, we don't train on it, we don't say that they have to do it. It's emotion that's a big part of it, where they come from. Emotion in the game. And of course we're not supporting those kind of things. And I'm not saying that they should do things when there's nothing going on. But again there's a difference... " blah blah

"So then what do you say to him after the fact, to try and prevent it. What have you said to Fernando or have you not said anything"?

JVS "I try to calm everyone down but in the end it's something that also in... Louis Suarez is very good example and he's one of the best players in the world."

JVS bringing up Suarez is not going to help his argument. And generally I didn't find him that convincing. The reporters were clearly trying to see what actual steps he takes against his players of "over acting the over acting" and his responses were vague. I get the impression he really does not care about the over the top theatrics of some players. Sure I understand if players do a bit of acting to bring attention to something (if it warrants it but that's often not the case) but when it's over the top it can also give the club an identity that gets brought up in the press and affects referees.

 

Edited December 9, 2016 by Alexxxandro

[KSK_47]

1 hour ago, Alexxxandro said:

Reporter: "what do you say to your players when they do react in these ways regardless of the foul commieted. The more theatrical response?"

JVS "Look, we don't train on it, we don't say that they have to do it. It's emotion that's a big part of it, where they come from. Emotion in the game. And of course we're not supporting those kind of things. And I'm not saying that they should do things when there's nothing going on. But again there's a difference... " blah blah

"So then what do you say to him after the fact, to try and prevent it. What have you said to Fernando or have you not said anything"?

JVS "I try to calm everyone down but in the end it's something that also in... Louis Suarez is very good example and he's one of the best players in the world."

JVS bringing up Suarez is not going to help his argument. And generally I didn't find him that convincing. The reporters were clearly trying to see what actual steps he takes against his players of "over acting the over acting" and his responses were vague. I get the impression he really does not care about the over the top theatrics of some players. Sure I understand if players do a bit of acting to bring attention to something (if it warrants it but that's often not the case) but when it's over the top it can also give the club an identity that gets brought up in the press and affects referees.

 

I just watched the replay of brandans simulation hoping that perhaps i was in the heat of the moment and it wasnt as bad as i thought.

Nope. Its actually more pathetic the next day. Then i watched norths flop and to be honest they are just as bad as each other. This ridiculous "theres a difference between touching and pushing"  argument is complete horse shit. Brandan should have been warned about this garbage after his first game.

Although admittedly i did paying attention to the simulation in both incidents so that makes me not a real fan like @Chris p and obviously my point of view is therefore invalid. If only i didnt waste all those years in my teens, 20s and 30s watching all that football the wrong way! Hopefully you can release a guide book on how to be a real fan Chris so we can learn. 

 

Edited December 9, 2016 by KSK_47

[neio]

I don't have a problem with the go down if there is contact,  every striker does it in world

It's the 7 rolls and back somersault that Brandan does that shits me,  last night isn't the first time he has done it.  He is a fucking gun,.could be the best player in the league but soon the FFA are going to crack down in it and suspend someone, and He is probably the first in the gun 

Edited December 9, 2016 by neio

[KSK_47]

2 minutes ago, neio said:

I don't have a problem with the go down if there is contact,  every striker does it in world

It's the 7 rolls and back somersault that Brandan does that shits me,  last night isn't the first time he has done it.  He is a fucking gun,.could be the best player in the league but soon the FFA are going to crack down in it and suspend someone, and He is probably the first in the gun 

Out of likes but absolutely this. If it doesn't happen because of this incident, he will be made an example of if (when) it happens again.

Its not helpful for anyone at all.

[fensaddler]

5 minutes ago, KSK_47 said:

Out of likes but absolutely this. If it doesn't happen because of this incident, he will be made an example of if (when) it happens again.

Its not helpful for anyone at all.

And there are two consequences beyond this.  Our best players, particularly Bruno, will get little or no protection and will struggle to perform as a result.  And serious fouls and resulting injuries will be more likely, and will be missed or go unpunished.  Would Bobo have been sent off if simulation hadn't been in the minds of officials?

[KSK_47]

4 minutes ago, fensaddler said:

And there are two consequences beyond this.  Our best players, particularly Bruno, will get little or no protection and will struggle to perform as a result.  And serious fouls and resulting injuries will be more likely, and will be missed or go unpunished.  Would Bobo have been sent off if simulation hadn't been in the minds of officials?

Again out of likes but precisely this. And its already happening. Not saying its necessarily right but we all knew what would happen but still did it anyway. We are now the club that cried wolf and have nobody to blame but ourselves.

Edited December 9, 2016 by KSK_47

[playmaker]

I reckon when when cricketers appeal like idiots for a bullshit LBW is no different. They carry on like morons when they clearly know it's not in line with the stumps. But regardless the umpire gives the decision based on the rules.

No different than what we see on the football pitch except the referees are too stupid to make the correct call regardless of the theatrics. The refs are shit because they let players and coaches influence their decision.

Facts are Bobo should have been sent off, Simons should have had the same fate and the penalty decision was incorrect.

Australian way my arse; play the fkn game and get better referees from overseas because the game in Australia is becoming a farce with these refs not doing their jobs and not controlling the game

 

[jw1739]

18 minutes ago, KSK_47 said:

Again out of likes but precisely this. And its already happening. Not saying its necessarily right but we all knew what would happen but still did it anyway. We are now the club that cried wolf and have nobody to blame but ourselves.

Not at all. We're now the "little club that's growed up", no longer copping everything from everyone and just keeping quiet about it. On the broader topic of football the Australian way etc. etc., surely it's not unexpected that if you import players from overseas then they're going to bring their characters and behaviours with them? Just as people do in other walks of life? We bang on about "the world game" but then want it played "the Australian way" (whatever that is - I'm still trying to work that out after 48 years). Happy to import the "terrace culture", but not happy to import Argentinian theatrics?

Anyway, whatever our individual opinions are, we have a Match Review Panel that can review this sort of thing, and make recommendations to FFA. I hope that they will look at recent events, listen to what's been said by various coaches and others, and that FFA, if it sees fit, will issue both general and specific guidelines/instructions to all the parties concerned - players, officials, coaches, club administrators, owners etc. FFA has the power to do this and to guide the game in what it sees as the right direction.

[KSK_47]

7 minutes ago, playmaker said:

I reckon when when cricketers appeal like idiots for a bullshit LBW is no different. They carry on like morons when they clearly know it's not in line with the stumps. But regardless the umpire gives the decision based on the rules.

No different than what we see on the football pitch except the referees are too stupid to make the correct call regardless of the theatrics. The refs are shit because they let players and coaches influence their decision.

Facts are Bobo should have been sent off, Simons should have had the same fate and the penalty decision was incorrect.

Australian way my arse; play the fkn game and get better referees from overseas because the game in Australia is becoming a farce with these refs not doing their jobs and not controlling the game

 

Not quite. Simulation is against the rules so its not the same as a noisy appeal. 

While a do agree that simulation needs to be handled better, its still against the rules and needs to be punished

[KSK_47]

20 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

if you import players from overseas then they're going to bring their characters and behaviours with them? Just as people do in other walks of life? We bang on about "the world game" but then want it played "the Australian way" (whatever that is - I'm still trying to work that out after 48 years). Happy to import the "terrace culture", but not happy to import Argentinian theatrics?

 

Not the way I see it at all. The great thing about having a developing culture is that you can pick and choose what you want and what you dont.

To use your terrace culture example, the majority of people love the noise, flags, drums, colour, etc like you see over seas so we keep it and encourage it. But on the other hand we dont like the violence, open racism, etc that  is very common in other parts of the world so we condemn it and do everything we can to keep it out of our own culture if we see it here.

Same goes with on the pitch. You can like certain aspects of the South American style so we will obviously encourage those aspects. But we can also dislike other aspects and therefore discourage them. You dont have to import the entire culture.

 

[Tommykins]

There is also a problem that if you don't go down like a sack of spuds (see Fornaroli, Bruno), then you're very, very, very unlikely to be given freekicks in the A-League (or anywhere else in the world) that you're entirely deserving of.

[KSK_47]

5 minutes ago, Tommykins said:

There is also a problem that if you don't go down like a sack of spuds (see Fornaroli, Bruno), then you're very, very, very unlikely to be given freekicks in the A-League (or anywhere else in the world) that you're entirely deserving of.

Its not the going to ground hat most people have an issue with. Its the holding the face when you get a tap on the ankle and rolling down the pitch for 10 meters (simulation) that most people dont like

[fensaddler]

The other consequence is that the story in the media this morning is Brandan's simulation, not Bobo's crude challenge, and the fact that he should not have been on the pitch to win and score a soft penalty.  And the Brandan story should have been his goal, not his dive.

[KSK_47]

5 minutes ago, fensaddler said:

The other consequence is that the story in the media this morning is Brandan's simulation, not Bobo's crude challenge, and the fact that he should not have been on the pitch to win and score a soft penalty.  And the Brandan story should have been his goal, not his dive.

Exactly. And telling people that "its part of the game in other countries so we should be OK with it" is not going to help or change anything at all. In fact it just gives more fuel for the fire and makes things worse

[playmaker]

Just now, KSK_47 said:

Not quite. Simulation is against the rules so its not the same as a noisy appeal. 

While a do agree that simulation needs to be handled better, its still against the rules and needs to be punished

That's open to interpretation ( well not really). Both try to influence an outcome.

I have no problem with simulation, can't wait for Brandan to roll the width of the pitch TBH, as that would definitely make my night.

Oh another gripe is the Sydney-centric Fox staff, they piss me off about their attitude and Sydney bullshit propaganda. Like it or not arse wipes, City will dominate over the next 5 years and you smurf and victory fanboys are realising you are not the FFAs golden children anymore and can't rely on special treatment to dominate the league.

Oh, and by the way smurfs, when it mattered, you lost, no silverware for you, and based on last night, you are nothing special so enjoy it while it lasts.

[KSK_47]

6 minutes ago, playmaker said:

That's open to interpretation ( well not really). Both try to influence an outcome.

I have no problem with simulation, can't wait for Brandan to roll the width of the pitch TBH, as that would definitely make my night.

 

There is no rule against a noisy appeal in cricket. There is a rule against simulation in football so its not really open to interpretation at all.

if you are OK with simulation then thats your deal, but most arent, like it or not

 

[RedAndWhitePride]

37 minutes ago, fensaddler said:

The other consequence is that the story in the media this morning is Brandan's simulation, not Bobo's crude challenge, and the fact that he should not have been on the pitch to win and score a soft penalty.  And the Brandan story should have been his goal, not his dive.

Was about to post this exact thing. 

 

Bobo is alright though m8 because he didn't take a fooking dive! 

[mattyh001]

59 minutes ago, fensaddler said:

The other consequence is that the story in the media this morning is Brandan's simulation, not Bobo's crude challenge, and the fact that he should not have been on the pitch to win and score a soft penalty.  And the Brandan story should have been his goal, not his dive.

 

56 minutes ago, KSK_47 said:

Exactly. And telling people that "its part of the game in other countries so we should be OK with it" is not going to help or change anything at all. In fact it just gives more fuel for the fire and makes things worse

Exactly what I was thinking this morning.

I'm not condoning the rolling around for the sake of it, more highlighting the double standards since the "Aussie way" has grown up on big hits and thuggery in Aussie Rules / Rugby League. Thereby it seems most tolerate the bullshit from Bobo and Simon last night significantly more than from Brandan.

Edited December 10, 2016 by mattyh001

[playmaker]

Sydney-centric clickbate. Let them whinge and wine. Fk em

33 minutes ago, KSK_47 said:

There is no rule against a noisy appeal in cricket. There is a rule against simulation in football so its not really open to interpretation at all.

if you are OK with simulation then thats your deal, but most arent, like it or not

 

Not if there is contact, and in Brandan's case there was. The ref didn't see it as a foul and the game was allowed to play on.

No rule infringement 

 

[KSK_47]

12 minutes ago, playmaker said:

Sydney-centric clickbate. Let them whinge and wine. Fk em

Not if there is contact, and in Brandan's case there was. The ref didn't see it as a foul and the game was allowed to play on.

No rule infringement 

 

I understand the dangers of using wikipedia as a reference but I cant be bothered digging through FIFA rule books, etc

Referees and FIFA are now trying to prevent diving with more frequent punishments as part of their ongoing target to stop all kinds of simulation in football.^{[citation needed]} The game's rules now state that "Attempts to deceive the referee by feigning injury or pretending to have been fouled (simulation)", must be sanctioned as unsporting behaviour which is misconduct punishable by a yellow card.^[3] The rule changes are in response to an increasing trend of diving and simulation.

I am no ref but I am pretty sure this is correct. Even if there is contact you can still commit an act of simulation and should be carded under unsportsman like behavior 

Any refs on here want to shed some light on this matter?

Edited December 10, 2016 by KSK_47

[Dylan]

3 minutes ago, KSK_47 said:

I understand the dangers of using wikipedia as a reference but I cant be bothered digging through FIFA rule books, etc

Referees and FIFA are now trying to prevent diving with more frequent punishments as part of their ongoing target to stop all kinds of simulation in football.^{[citation needed]} The game's rules now state that "Attempts to deceive the referee by feigning injury or pretending to have been fouled (simulation)", must be sanctioned as unsporting behaviour which is misconduct punishable by a yellow card.^[3] The rule changes are in response to an increasing trend of diving and simulation.

I am no ref but I am pretty sure this is correct. Even if there is contact you can still commit an act o simulation

Any refs on here ant to shed some light on this matter?

Yeh what the Tiprat did deserved a yellow. Im prepared to give him time to adjust to aus as its compleatly different in Argentina. 

[fensaddler]

11 minutes ago, Dylan said:

Yeh what the Tiprat did deserved a yellow. Im prepared to give him time to adjust to aus as its compleatly different in Argentina. 

And JVS needs to tell him clearly, rather than making public excuses for him.  In the end he is endangering his team mates and undermining the potential success of the team.  The frustration is that he doesn't need to do it, he's already a brilliant player.  The footwork that preceded the dive was wonderful, and exactly what makes sexy football.