The APL/FA Management Thread

[ecguymer]

So, match attendance figures are in, and the match over in NZ was the only match to have over 10k attendance; with every over home team having there lowest home attendance this season....

[n i k o]

Edited

 

Edited December 8, 2015 by n i k o

[kingofhearts]

If i was Kyle Patterson right now i'd be locking my doors

(among doing many other things)

Edited December 7, 2015 by kingofhearts

[Shahanga]

People shouldn't spread scurrilous rumours like that. Who is "stealth"? Put your name to it or shut up.(or preferably both)

[thisphantomfortress]

SST are notorious for being wrong 99% of the time. We shouldn't give these idiots the attention they want.

[hedaik]

Arent you now doing what you're accusing the Daily Telegraph of?

Edited December 8, 2015 by hedaik

[belaguttman]

8 hours ago, kingofhearts said:

If i was Kyle Patterson right now i'd be locking my doors

(among doing many other things)

I'd be calling my lawyer, I hope that SST have one unless they are adamant that their source is impeccable.

[Jovan]

Morons. 

[n i k o]

3 hours ago, hedaik said:

Arent you now doing what you're accusing the Daily Telegraph of?

No. I did not release private and confidential information to the public of any person. It would be no different if I had just come on here and written that SST were accusing him of the leak. 

Anyway I've edited my post because SST has removed the tweet so for their sake I've done the same. 

Edited December 8, 2015 by n i k o

[hedaik]

59 minutes ago, n i k o said:

No. I did not release private and confidential information to the public of any person. It would be no different if I had just come on here and written that SST were accusing him of the leak.

Anyway I've edited my post because SST has removed the tweet so for their sake I've done the same.

I was more thinking along the lines of defamation and hanging people out to dry without full evidence, especially with the fact that SST no better than the Daily Telegraph when it comes to being trustworthy.

[cadete]

27 minutes ago, hedaik said:

I was more thinking along the lines of defamation and hanging people out to dry without full evidence, especially with the fact that SST no better than the Daily Telegraph when it comes to being trustworthy.

Reminds me how we never saw "Fuck Gillard" shirts... but when she was PM certain PPL said she was copping a harder go from the Public just because she was a woman.

It's okay when are on the side of Good and the People... in this case the poor tortured 198.

Edited December 8, 2015 by cadete

[Shahanga]

5 hours ago, hedaik said:

Arent you now doing what you're accusing the Daily Telegraph of?

Well Wilson at least put her own name to it, unlike that mob & their "stevie on the tram told me" approach. 

[Dylan]

5 hours ago, hedaik said:

I was more thinking along the lines of defamation and hanging people out to dry without full evidence, especially with the fact that SST no better than the Daily Telegraph when it comes to being trustworthy.

I wonder if they are going to put their podcast out this week.....

[NuggetsMcGreggor]

Is anyone from our active group meeting with FFA and if so what are you planning on putting to them? 

[thisphantomfortress]

2 hours ago, NuggetsMcGreggor said:

Is anyone from our active group meeting with FFA and if so what are you planning on putting to them? 

Yes and secret

[NuggetsMcGreggor]

4 minutes ago, thisphantomfortress said:

Yes and secret

Well that wouldn't be a very good way of representing the active support then would it...

[thisphantomfortress]

2 minutes ago, NuggetsMcGreggor said:

Well that wouldn't be a very good way of representing the active support then would it...

Feel free to PM anything you would like put forward

[NuggetsMcGreggor]

27 minutes ago, thisphantomfortress said:

Feel free to PM anything you would like put forward

But that's not the point is it... 

I don't know that I have anything specific I want raised but I want to know that those who are representing the active support (including me) are engaging with and reflective of those who they purport to represent. 

[thisphantomfortress]

1 hour ago, NuggetsMcGreggor said:

But that's not the point is it... 

I don't know that I have anything specific I want raised but I want to know that those who are representing the active support (including me) are engaging with and reflective of those who they purport to represent. 

It's being a trying few weeks and engagement has been incredibly important to us. Tbh I personally don't use the forum as a key point of engagement but have been actively involved with all sorts of people in active support; via text, Facebook and face to face when possible. This coupled with meetings with the club have given us what we feel is a platform to work with.

on top of all of this we are working closely with the members from the other terraces to form a united coherent vision of what we wish to achieve from this meeting. 

I'm probably going to get my ass kicked by the rest of the core because it's not 100% yet, but we are planning to have an open forum in the very near future (before derby) so we can discuss all of these issues face to face with as many active supporters as possible.

I hope you can appreciate that due to a lot of factors divulging all of the intimate details of our plans for the meeting right now is not possible. I can assure you everything we do has the best interests of our terrace and supporter bases at itsmheart. We will be making a statement tomorrow night via Facebook and I'm always happy for you to message me on here.

 

[Jun]

12 hours ago, cadete said:

Reminds me how we never saw "Fuck Gillard" shirts... but when she was PM certain PPL said she was copping a harder go from the Public just because she was a woman.

It's okay when are on the side of Good and the People... in this case the poor tortured 198.

A handful of unemployed fuckwits in Bourke St wearing idiotic tee-shirts is hardly comparable to the abuse she copped from major media personalities with enormous followings. If you're going to derail a thread, do it properly.

[Tesla]

4 hours ago, thisphantomfortress said:

Yes and secret

Rar rar rar Not Inclusive rar rar rar

[cadete]

8 hours ago, Jun said:

A handful of unemployed fuckwits in Bourke St wearing idiotic tee-shirts is hardly comparable to the abuse she copped from major media personalities with enormous followings. If you're going to derail a thread, do it properly.

You got be kidding me... you dont think Fairfax or the ABC or even The Project does have their own large blind followings?

These PPL had there first massive Anti-Abbott protest just because he was elected. He hadn't he even done anything yet (Like his first Budget) and there up in arms and his Catholicism is never far away as the reason PPL cited he hold particular opinions.

Where was the Anti Gillard Protests every month and imagine what Fairfax would have made of "Fuck Gillard" shirts and PPL saying her reversals on election promises where because she was a woman?

Also have we heard anything about Turnbull being Pro-Gay Marriage, or an Republican, more progressive on Climate Change because he is a Catholic?

......................................

Anyway back on topic this meeting is just going to make the representatives of all clubs bar two or at most three just realise how the actions of only three clubs is why most of the Active Support restrictions in place...

Which is the only issue that effects MCFC Active Supporters seeing as no MCFC were listed in the paper.

 

Edited December 8, 2015 by cadete

[bt50]

6 minutes ago, cadete said:

You got be kidding me... you dont think Fairfax or the ABC or even The Project does have their own large blind followings?

These PPL had there first massive Anti-Abbott protest just because he was elected. He hadn't he even done anything yet (Like his first Budget) and there up in arms and his Catholicism is never far away as the reason PPL cited he hold particular opinions.

Where was the Anti Gillard Protests every month and imagine what Fairfax would have made of "Fuck Gillard" shirts and PPL saying her reversals on election promises where because she was a woman?

Also have we heard anything about Turnbull being Pro-Gay Marriage, or an Republican, more progressive on Climate Change because he is a Catholic?

......................................

Anyway back on topic this meeting is just going to make the representatives of all clubs bar two or at most three just realise how the actions of only three clubs is why most of the Active Support restrictions in place...

Which is the only issue that effects MCFC Active Supporters seeing as no MCFC were listed in the paper.

 

And if you read the Melburnians statements, that forms a large part of exactly what they are protesting.

The line the media are toeing re appeals seems to be quite peripheral, with perhaps a slightly heightened focus from the RBB and NT; the majority of the list.

[cadete]

15 minutes ago, bt50 said:

And if you read the Melburnians statements, that forms a large part of exactly what they are protesting.

The line the media are toeing re appeals seems to be quite peripheral, with perhaps a slightly heightened focus from the RBB and NT; the majority of the list.

Yes I get that Melburnians are not really complaining about the bans but rather the restrictions on Active Support...

So therefore I dont understand why the representatives of a majority of the clubs including Melburnians blame the FFA when in reality the restrictions that they are up against have been in put in place in the last two seasons (out of eleven) because of the constant misbehaviour of largely two clubs.

Should they not blame these club's fans instead as it makes more sense IMO, the league allowed clubs a hell of a lot more Freedom in Active Support for a good nine years until the finally got sick of the behaviour from these specific clubs. (I mean as if the guys from The Den or The Yellow Army actually know the shit certain MV and RBB Subgroups get up to on a regular basis.)

In four years in Yarraside we never had one Tifo/Flag/ or even Protest Banner censored or told that a Tifo it had to be deployed in a certain way... we had Pullover after Pullover with things of our choice on display.

 

Edited December 8, 2015 by cadete

[bt50]

13 minutes ago, cadete said:

Yes I get that Melburnians are not really complaining about the bans but rather the restrictions on Active Support...

So therefore I dont understand why the representatives of a majority of the clubs including Melburnians blame the FFA when in reality the restrictions that they are up against have been in put in place in the last two seasons (out of eleven) because of the constant misbehaviour of largely two clubs.

Should they not blame these club's fans instead as it makes more sense IMO, the league allowed clubs a hell of a lot more Freedom in Active Support for a good nine years until the finally got sick of the behaviour from these specific clubs. (I mean as if the guys from The Den or The Yellow Army actually know the shit certain MV and RBB Subgroups get up to on a regular basis.)

In four years in Yarraside we never had one Tifo/Flag/ or even Protest Banner censored or told that a Tifo it had to be deployed in a certain way... we had Pullover after Pullover with things of our choice on display.

 

But ultimately its FFA and VicPol calling those shots and forcing restrictions on everyone for the behaviour of a few.

Targeting Mong and WSW fans isn't going to achieve anything. Sure they might be to blame to a degree, but its not like Melburnians can have a protest about fuckstick groups like Horda and Komiti existing.

Now I think we've been treated unfairly over the past few years, however I'm not blind as to see that our behaviour as a collective (which I note is NOT a core directive, but the actions of a few) has deteriorated quite a bit over the past 12 months.

Coincidently, that changed about the time that a tifo, created and designed EXACTLY the same as the previous two xmas tifos, was pulled out from under us two days out from the event for no given reason other than 'safety'

Edited December 8, 2015 by bt50

[cadete]

7 minutes ago, bt50 said:

But ultimately its FFA and VicPol calling those shots and forcing restrictions on everyone for the behaviour of a few.

Targeting Mong and WSW fans isn't going to achieve anything. Sure they might be to blame to a degree, but its not like Melburnians can have a protest about fuckstick groups like Horda and Komiti existing.

Now I think we've been treated unfairly over the past few years, however I'm not blind as to see that our behaviour as a collective (which I note is NOT a core directive, but the actions of a few) has deteriorated quite a bit over the past 12 months.

Coincidently, that changed about the time that a tifo, created and designed EXACTLY the same as the previous two xmas tifos was pulled out from under us two days out from the event for no given reason other than 'safety'

Obviously I hope these talks see Active Support restrictions relaxed, I just think it be a real shame if they are and then the usual suspects fuck it up FOR everyone all over and again.

As a realist who has some limited contact over the years with these PPL I think its highly likely this will occur as they just do seem to be able to view the crimes they commit as crimes... despite this being a blatantly obvious fact.

Edited December 8, 2015 by cadete

[bt50]

I don't disagree with you there tbh.

Hopefully FFA will see in their wisdom to take it case by case and not as a sweeping knee jerk reaction across the board.

[Shahanga]

Good luck boys. Try to make the most of the trip.

In regards to the meeting all I can say is my advice is try to stop those 2 clubs hijacking the agenda.  if that happens as a collective I think we will live to regret it.

[belaguttman]

22 minutes ago, cadete said:

Obviously I hope these talks see Active Support restrictions relaxed, I just think it be a real shame if they are and then the usual suspects fuck it up FOR everyone all over and again.

As a realist who has some limited contact over the years with these PPL I think its highly likely this will occur as they just do seem to be able to view the crimes they commit as crimes... despite this being a blatantly obvious fact.

I think that's we should be urging fan groups to take a more active role in self policing. Many European grounds use volunteer fan marshals, why don't we?

[bt50]

1 minute ago, belaguttman said:

I think that's we should be urging fan groups to take a more active role in self policing. Many European grounds use volunteer fan marshals, why don't we?

Don't think we have enough of that sort of passionate fans to achieve fan marshals yet.

Edited December 8, 2015 by bt50

[cadete]

2 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

I think that's we should be urging fan groups to take a more active role in self policing. Many European grounds use volunteer fan marshals, why don't we?

MV have fan marshalls... so I dont think FFA is going to see this as a solution.

[belaguttman]

1 minute ago, cadete said:

MV have fan marshalls... so I dont think FFA is going to see this as a solution.

Its not the only solution, fans themselves have to take responsibility. Peer pressure is a very powerful tool

[cadete]

44 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

Its not the only solution, fans themselves have to take responsibility. Peer pressure is a very powerful tool

The notion of "Self Policing", is something the NT has always been adamantly against since its formation likewise the RBB (I dont know if the new Western Terrace splitting from the RBB has changed things but I doubt it) and it was certainly something Yarraside never stood for either... I am fairly certain Melburnians feel the same.

Of course The Cove has tried it in the past and has been heavily criticised by many of the above groups for doing so and even lost a significant number of its own most involved members for its implementation of such a policy.

[belaguttman]

I appreciate that it' s difficult but can you think of another acceptable way (to FFA/ ground management) to be able to effectively scale back the role of ground security and Police? There has to be some give and take from both sides here.

[jw1739]

It's because people don't "self-police" (think for themselves, take responsibility for their own actions) that we end up with a nanny state.

You can't have it both ways, Cadete. You either "self-police" or the status quo will be maintained.

Edited December 9, 2015 by jw1739

[cadete]

24 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

I appreciate that it' s difficult but can you think of another acceptable way (to FFA/ ground management) to be able to effectively scale back the role of ground security and Police? There has to be some give and take from both sides here.

5 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

It's because people don't "self-police" (think for themselves, take responsibility for their own actions) that we end up with a nanny state.

You can't have it both ways, Cadete. You either "self-police" or the status quo will be maintained.

LOL - That has been my point all along about why these protests are not a war MCFC Active Fans have to fight and in general a largely pointless battle.

Because there is no way the NT or the RBB who are the biggest players in these Talks will ever agree to things that dont fall in law with their Rigid, Irrational Ultra Values this is just a simple plain reality and FWIW being Anti-Self Policing is just one of many of these Values that the FFA does not like.

For some strange reason in this sport in this country we have PPL who actively pursue crime and then get upset when they get punished for having committing crime.

 

[Jovan]

So Cadete what are you suggesting regarding this meeting?  That Melburnians shouldn't take part?

[cadete]

3 minutes ago, Jovan said:

So Cadete what are you suggesting regarding this meeting?  That Melburnians shouldn't take part?

I am not privy to all the information Melburnians have on the situation so I cannot make such a statement... I am sure there is other stuff happening I dont know about.

What I do know is that the issues that are clearly going to arrive at this meeting due to the values certain other Supporter Groups hold sacred that make me feel a resolution is going to hard to achieve or at least settle on and then be kept by both parties (in particular by some fans). 

I also dont understand why the majority of Supporter Groups are not upset at the small minority for performing the acts that saw the inflicting of the stricter restrictions in the first place.

FWIW when I was involved in Active Support with Yarraside we basically had an isolationist view and kept to ourselves and managing our own backyard when it came to these Collective Supporter Group Issues against the FFA/VicPol.

Except its important to note that the stuff that arose was nothing anything close to as big an issue of this magnitude... there was one occasion when when almost all major Supporter Groups held up Protest Banners (I can't remember exactly over what but some Supporter issue) but we declined to take part as the issue had not affected MHFC fans.

[belaguttman]

1 hour ago, cadete said:

LOL - That has been my point all along about why these protests are not a war MCFC Active Fans have to fight and in general a largely pointless battle.

Because there is no way the NT or the RBB who are the biggest players in these Talks will ever agree to things that dont fall in law with their Rigid, Irrational Ultra Values this is just a simple plain reality and FWIW being Anti-Self Policing is just one of many of these Values that the FFA does not like.

For some strange reason in this sport in this country we have PPL who actively pursue crime and then get upset when they get punished for having committing crime.

 

I don't know where they get that idea from, St.Pauli ultras are self policing, nobody can accuse them of 'selling out'.

Edited December 9, 2015 by belaguttman

[cadete]

42 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

I don't know where they get that idea from, St.Pauli ultras are self policing, nobody can accuse them of 'selling out'.

It's a old and basic Ultra Group principle that is a byproduct of the most important belief that most Ultra Groups hold which that they remain an independent group separate from their league and club.

I dont know what the St Pauli Ultras actually have in place but there is no way that the RBB or NT are going to agree to what they see as "ratting people out" for things like lighting flares in their Terrace or altercations with Authorities. In fact from what I heard the RBB and NT have only agreed to go to these talks because their hands were forced by other Supporter Groups (Primarily Sydney) arranging them without their knowledge.

I also think St Pauli aren't really the best club to look at when it comes to the normal beliefs of Continental Ultra Supporter Groups.