Melbourne vs Perth Friday 27th Nov 7:40pm AAMI Park

[silva10]

A great win today. Overall a deserved win.

Of course we had a few scares at the back, but I thought we improved there in the second half. Our major problem defensively is the lack of communication. When midfielder's are running at you, you need to ensure that you pick them up, or else someone else has. Just some simple communication between the midfield and defence will help this.

I thought Retre struggled in the first half, but was much better in the 2nd half. He brings a lot of energy to the midfield, which I think has helped Paartalu.

I also thought Gameiro was much improved. He actually passed the ball more in this game, and as we saw with Bruno's goal he can do it effectively.

Novillo was much better than against Brisbane. He looked a lot fitter and was really enjoying himself.

Finally Aaron had another superb game, and was easily MOTM. Let's hope we can build on this, despite the manager.

 

[GreenSeater]

Get fucked. No seriously get fucked. I turn up almost every week and watch absolute bottom of the barrel, shithouse performances over and over again, and the two games at AAMI Park I've missed this season we've beaten both Wellington and Perth 5-1. For fuck sake man!

[Bannon]

5 hours ago, strider said:

Strider's weekly "three things I learnt this game":

1. Louder terrace without Melburnians

2. Aaron deserves at least an 80 rating on Fifa

3. Franjic looks like Ragnar Lothbrok

hey strider ever feel like having a beer before one game wouldn't mind putting a name to the face.

[Falastur]

3 hours ago, GreenSeater said:

Get fucked. No seriously get fucked. I turn up almost every week and watch absolute bottom of the barrel, shithouse performances over and over again, and the two games at AAMI Park I've missed this season we've beaten both Wellington and Perth 5-1. For fuck sake man!

Maybe the two are related? Are you going to the next game?

As you would probably expect, once again I didn't get to see the game due to being at work, and I don't have BT Sport so I can't record it, so I'll have to make do with the highlights. A 5-1 win is never (well, rarely) a bad thing, and I'm glad we got a confidence boost even if it is at the expense of JVS' job becoming a bit more secure, but the one thing I'd like to comment is that I saw a quote from JVS after the game saying "it could have been 4-4". That's the kind of comment you expect from a losing manager, not a winning one. I have to question what his point is - is he saying that he thought the team didn't play well after all, and that therefore he himself knows something is wrong? Is he just unintentionally backhanding his defenders, no matter how much they might deserve it? Is he trying to impersonate Mourinho and use mindgames on his own players? Either way, it's not exactly the quote I wanted to read after a 5-1 win...

[NewConvert]

Yes it was Perth Glory who were really off their game (Covic's comments after the game were interesting). But it was probably better than having an intra-club game or playing the NYL side. And it does lift the players and builds confidence and team cohesion.

That was Gameiro's best game so far, pity that he got injured although it appears that he could walk. In any case he said it felt like something snapping in his knee. This probably means that at the very least they will be cautious next week if he is available.

Mooy was superb although I do believe that it was him the Sydney Sciola slipped past to head their only goal. Otherwise there is little to add to the superlatives that he is being showered with.

To the rest of the team: Melling is playing extremely well - even if he is being played out of position. Clisby has had to good weeks. Chapman scored as well played a pivotal role in defence. Franjic is getting better every week. Sorenson is doing a good job given the four that he has had in front of him but I do wonder whether Velaphi could match him. Paartalau was also good and the pairing with Retre appears to be working out. I was not as impressed with Retre this week as I was last week but a serviceable game. Novillo and Fornaroli are improving and things are beginning to gel. Williams is lucky that Marino and Brown are injured because his miss was career ending stuff.

All in all a great game. For next week I want a clean sheet and a win. There really is no reason for that not to occur.

 

[belaguttman]

2 hours ago, Falastur said:

Maybe the two are related? Are you going to the next game?

As you would probably expect, once again I didn't get to see the game due to being at work, and I don't have BT Sport so I can't record it, so I'll have to make do with the highlights. A 5-1 win is never (well, rarely) a bad thing, and I'm glad we got a confidence boost even if it is at the expense of JVS' job becoming a bit more secure, but the one thing I'd like to comment is that I saw a quote from JVS after the game saying "it could have been 4-4". That's the kind of comment you expect from a losing manager, not a winning one. I have to question what his point is - is he saying that he thought the team didn't play well after all, and that therefore he himself knows something is wrong? Is he just unintentionally backhanding his defenders, no matter how much they might deserve it? Is he trying to impersonate Mourinho and use mindgames on his own players? Either way, it's not exactly the quote I wanted to read after a 5-1 win...

What he means is that in the first half path had several clear good scoring chances, mostly created by poor defensive positioning or tracking and that Sorensen saved our arse. It could easily have been 3-3 at half time. Luckily Perth were so shit now that they aren't cheating the salary cap.

[neio]

9 hours ago, Nate said:

hard to see why Thwaite is rated as highly as he is, he was useless and he's meant to be a senior figure in that defence

I found it puzzling why they are using him as a midfielder, he is a solid centre back and would do a much better job than golec, from their 4 defenders last night the only one who looks like they know what they are doing in Williams and he got himself sent off

[rayv36]

If we played like this more often we won't  have crowds under 6k

[Kiro Kompiro]

Only saw it from the 30 minute so didn't see Perth's good period.

 

A few small points:

1.  Playing Fornaroli higher up without his back to goal is how he should be played. As his goal showed he knows where to be and if players can just pick him out he will get a shot away on target.

2.  Chapman and Melling will get murdered if we a play a team that puts in high crosses.

3.  Gameiro is technically at Marc Warren, just under Zadkovich, level. 

4.  Mooy.

 

[Dylan]

1 minute ago, Kiro Kompiro said:

Only saw it from the 30 minute so didn't see Perth's good period.

 

A few small points:

1.  Playing Fornaroli higher up without his back to goal is how he should be played. As his goal showed he knows where to be and if players can just pick him out he will get a shot away on target.

2.  Chapman and Melling will get murdered if we a play a team that puts in high crosses.

3.  Gameiro is technically at Marc Warren, just under Zadkovich, level. 

4.  Mooy.

 

Gameiro is a gun. Hasnt played for 12 months, and is obviously very rusty

[NewConvert]

1 hour ago, Dylan said:

Gameiro is a gun. Hasnt played for 12 months, and is obviously very rusty

And who knows when he will grace the pitch again after he came off. At least you are now conceding that he is very rusty and that was because of a lack of pre-season.

[Defibrillator]

2 hours ago, belaguttman said:

What he means is that in the first half path had several clear good scoring chances, mostly created by poor defensive positioning or tracking and that Sorensen saved our arse. It could easily have been 3-3 at half time. Luckily Perth were so shit now that they aren't cheating the salary cap.

This is spot on Bela.  We were somewhat flattered by the scoreline at half time - the defense leaked but I thought the two DMs - especially Retre - had a poor first half and left us exposed a lot.  In fact the first half was probably the worst I've seen Retre play and that's saying something.  His passing and decision making were poor and he just didn't work well with Paartalu at all.  Credit to the kid - he regrouped at half time and got his shit together.

Mooy and the front three were exceptional and exciting - it was brilliant to watch.  But plenty to fix at the back still and plenty of personnel to return (Franic is a definite step up).  A decent Perth CF and the game would have been much more "interesting". 

[japiedog]

felt good to win

but Perth were Shittier than us

they got behind our defence 4 times in the first15 minutes

they should have had 2 or 3 at half time

without Mooy we are crap

Lets see the real Heart when we play the top teams

 

[GreenSeater]

1 hour ago, Defibrillator said:

This is spot on Bela.  We were somewhat flattered by the scoreline at half time - the defense leaked but I thought the two DMs - especially Retre - had a poor first half and left us exposed a lot.  In fact the first half was probably the worst I've seen Retre play and that's saying something.  His passing and decision making were poor and he just didn't work well with Paartalu at all.  Credit to the kid - he regrouped at half time and got his shit together.

 Paartalu and Retre each finished the game with 91% passing accuracy, equal best in the match

[kingofhearts]

WTF was up with all the traffic last night?

Ended up missing most of the first half because i couldn't find a car park ffs

[jw1739]

1 minute ago, kingofhearts said:

WTF was up with all the traffic last night?

Ended up missing most of the first half because i couldn't find a car park ffs

There was a climate change protest in Melbourne. I suppose they all drove their cars to get to it...

[Harrison]

The passing accuracy statistic is an interesting one, but I think it should be used cautiously. A player can make 100 passes and only miss one, yet if that one missed pass leads to a goal, then he has largely failed to do his job. (Long balls are an exception, I am more referring to short balls that are turned over in the midfield.)

Retre turned it over last week for the Roar goal and, despite his overall accuracy, this is the statistic that he should be judged on. He is a professional footballer, and he should be making the bulk of his passes, especially when the majority of these are short, lateral balls anyway.

A midfielder, especially a holding midfielder, needs to be flawless. Maybe I am expecting too much from A league midfielders, but to be the best team, we need to have midfielders that make it their goal in life to keep possession and win it back. The best holding mids in the game are brick fucking walls and do not turn it over.

[jeffplz]

Anyone know where/if I can rewatch this match online?

[hakz7]

31 minutes ago, jeffplz said:

Anyone know where/if I can rewatch this match online?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4a93lt3cR8

[Murfy1]

3 hours ago, GreenSeater said:

 Paartalu and Retre each finished the game with 91% passing accuracy, equal best in the match

This.

 

I agree Retre and Paartalu could improve further with their midfield defending. Especially with our current back 4, we need Paartalu and Retre to be ever-present screening the back 4. Also Retre in particular could make a few more tackles and interceptions, as he made 0 tackles and only 1 interception last night (compare with Paartalu: 1 tackle and 5 interceptions). And I agree this is probably a matter of more communication, and maybe more game-time, before our 2 screening midfielders defend better as a unit.

 

I completely disagree that Retre's passing was poor though. Retre made 46 passes, and only had 4 unsuccessful passes (only 2 in each half), and hence had 91.3% passing accuracy:

 

Retre's passing first half                                                                        Retre's passing second half

 

None of those unsuccessful passes came close to giving Perth a shot or even a shooting opportunity as well. However, I think Retre might have been caught in possession a few times, so he could perhaps get a little better at protecting and holding on to the ball.

 

 

Ultimately Retre (and Paartalu) has a pretty simple job when the team's in possession: to get the ball from our defenders and to deliver the ball to Mooy, or our front 3, or an advanced full-back. Retre and Paartalu shouldn't be playing many flashy defence-splitting passes for Fornaroli, as their job is to get the ball to Mooy to do that. 

 

So IMO our midfield is coming along nicely with Paartalu and Retre as our screening or deeper lying midfielders, and Mooy as the creator further upfield. In attack the team gets high grades from me, and the team just needs to keep improving its organisation and compactness when we're defending and we'll be a seriously competitive A-League side. 

Edited November 28, 2015 by Murfy1

[NewConvert]

40 minutes ago, Murfy1 said:

This.

 

I agree Retre and Paartalu could improve further with their midfield defending. Especially with our current back 4, we need Paartalu and Retre to be ever-present screening the back 4. Also Retre in particular could make a few more tackles and interceptions, as he made 0 tackles and only 1 interception last night (compare with Paartalu: 1 tackle and 5 interceptions). And I agree this is probably a matter of more communication, and maybe more game-time, before our 2 screening midfielders defend better as a unit.

 

I completely disagree that Retre's passing was poor though. Retre made 46 passes, and only had 4 unsuccessful passes (only 2 in each half), and hence had 91.3% passing accuracy:

 

Retre's passing first half                                                                        Retre's passing second half

 

None of those unsuccessful passes came close to giving Perth a shot or even a shooting opportunity as well. However, I think Retre might have been caught in possession a few times, so he could perhaps get a little better at protecting and holding on to the ball.

 

 

Ultimately Retre (and Paartalu) has a pretty simple job when the team's in possession: to get the ball from our defenders and to deliver the ball to Mooy, or our front 3, or an advanced full-back. Retre and Paartalu shouldn't be playing many flashy defence-splitting passes for Fornaroli, as their job is to get the ball to Mooy to do that. 

 

So IMO our midfield is coming along nicely with Paartalu and Retre as our screening or deeper lying midfielders, and Mooy as the creator further upfield. In attack the team gets high grades from me, and the team just needs to keep improving its organisation and compactness when we're defending and we'll be a seriously competitive A-League side. 

Murfy, is this the first time that (well second including last week) the combo of Paartalau and Retre has been tried? perhaps it is a case that it is too new and so they are now getting used to it. As for Retre at times he seemed to lack awareness but maybe that was just me.

[jw1739]

The Perth goal...I've watched the replay a few times and IMO one of our players (I think it's Clisby) is manhandled out of position before the goal is scored. Some refs would have disallowed the goal.

Also, for the tactically minded - why don't we have a defender on at least one post for corners?

[n i k o]

Retre probably needs more time to get used to playing in that position. But it wasn't his passing that was the problem it was that he was dispossessed at least a handful of times. It usually happened when a Perth player came up out of his peripheral vision. From this point of view he was dissapointing, but he did do some nice work the besides that.  

Edited November 28, 2015 by n i k o

[alexli]

Does anyone know whether it is the first time that all players standing in a circle before kick-off? 

I cannot recall any game prior today we have done that

 

[Dylan]

54 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

The Perth goal...I've watched the replay a few times and IMO one of our players (I think it's Clisby) is manhandled out of position before the goal is scored. Some refs would have disallowed the goal.

Also, for the tactically minded - why don't we have a defender on at least one post for corners?

It was supposed to be Mooy  but seems like he channelled a bit of Pirlo corner defending 

[Harrison]

If/when Melling is shifted out of defence, there will be genuine competition for those two midfield spots, something we haven't had in a long time.

Melling, Mauk, Koren, Millar and even Trifiro will be competing, along with Retre and Paartalu, for the two midfield spots behind Mooy.

I think Retre can make it his own; he is certainly good enough.

 

 

[Murfy1]

1 hour ago, NewConvert said:

Murfy, is this the first time that (well second including last week) the combo of Paartalau and Retre has been tried? perhaps it is a case that it is too new and so they are now getting used to it. As for Retre at times he seemed to lack awareness but maybe that was just me.

 

I'm not 100% sure if it's the very first time (including last week) that we've played a Retre-Paartalu-Mooy midfield. If Retre played alongside Paartalu and Mooy in midfield before it was only for a game or two (the 3-1 away win against Brisbane in Nov 2014 comes to mind), whilst Koren and Melling were unavailable. This is the first string of games ever with a Retre-Paartalu-Mooy midfield.

 

I also agree that he just needs more time to get used to the position, get used to his fellow midfielders, and probably get used to playing as a midfielder in senior football. Retre probably doesn't have that extra half second he would have had when he regularly played as a midfielder in the NYL, so ATM I'm more inclined to chalk up the multiple times Retre was dispossessed to him adjusting to his new midfield position, rather than any shortcomings that might be inherent in his game.

 

 

Also it should be said that it's very unfair on our other midfielders having to play next to Aaron Mooy, who makes them all look pretty flawed by comparison..

Edited November 28, 2015 by Murfy1

[neio]

1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

The Perth goal...I've watched the replay a few times and IMO one of our players (I think it's Clisby) is manhandled out of position before the goal is scored. Some refs would have disallowed the goal.

Also, for the tactically minded - why don't we have a defender on at least one post for corners?

I think Mooy was supposed to be on post, but cause sidnei ran past him he got caught in 2 minds

[Jovan]

It's not the first goal we've conceded from a corner with Mooy leaving the post or if he's supposed to be zoning not winning/contesting. 

Just saying and definitely not bagging our GOAT.

[hakz7]

2 minutes ago, Jovan said:

It's not the first goal we've conceded from a corner with Mooy leaving the post or if he's supposed to be zoning not winning/contesting. 

Just saying and definitely not bagging the GOAT.

Fixed.

[Shahanga]

1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

The Perth goal...I've watched the replay a few times and IMO one of our players (I think it's Clisby) is manhandled out of position before the goal is scored. Some refs would have disallowed the goal.

Also, for the tactically minded - why don't we have a defender on at least one post for corners?

Because its out of fashion.  A lot don't do it and that's all I can come up with, because no other reason makes sense.

[Murfy1]

1 hour ago, Shahanga said:

Because its out of fashion.  A lot don't do it and that's all I can come up with, because no other reason makes sense.

 

Craig Foster did an article a while back, and outlined the line of thought for not putting defenders on the posts here:

Quote

The issue of defending corners, and the prevailing absence today of defenders on the posts, is a perfect case in point.

Traditionally, and certainly in Australia over past decades, there was an automatic response to place one defender on each post. Later, this became only one defender on one post as an extra player was utilised to defend the ball, until today where many teams have stopped the practice altogether.

This has been a trend for the past decade as coaches realized that, statistically, the number of clearances off the line relative to the number of corner kicks over time was extremely low. 

So they began to question the wisdom of sacrificing defenders to mark the posts which, after all, have never scored a goal in the history of football.

Players score goals, they postulated, and this is the starting point of defending a set piece. 

How to ensure the opposing attackers are not able to direct the ball towards the goal became the question, rather than how to stop the ball when it is already heading goalwards.

Removing one or both defenders away from their positions inside each post frees them to either mark space, an opposing player, or to position for a counter attack when the ball is won, an extremely important consideration.

http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/blog/2011/12/14/post-or-not-post

 

There's stats and more details in the article at the link, but the above quote explains the reasoning.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Murfy1

[Shahanga]

25 minutes ago, Murfy1 said:

 

Craig Foster did an article a while back, and outlined the line of thought for not putting defenders on the posts here:

http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/blog/2011/12/14/post-or-not-post

 

There's stats and more details in the article at the link, but the above quote explains the reasoning.

Not everyone can stop a player getting a header on target Murf  but anyone can "shrink the goals".  I wouldn't put a Kisnorbo or a Paartalu on the posts but there isn't a lot of point having the Mass Murdoccas of this world trying to compete for headers is there?  (Doubtlessly John Aloisi would disagree, "Mifsud is stronger in the air", i can hear him saying).

To me its not just about clearances off the line, its about forcing the attackers to head closer to the keeper, thus giving him more chance of saving.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Shahanga
further explanation

[jeffplz]

Surprised no one noticed the Rebecca Wilson chant at 88th minute.

 

https://youtu.be/W4a93lt3cR8?t=6656

[Defibrillator]

On 28 November 2015 12:27:01, GreenSeater said:

 Paartalu and Retre each finished the game with 91% passing accuracy, equal best in the match

Perth had 18 shots on goal (to our 25).  That's not a sign of two DMs locking down a midfield and repelling an opposition. They leaked pretty badly. I'd be interested in the number of intercepts and number of times they broke down attacks. I just think there is huge room for improvement here especially in positioning and decision making. 

And Murf the jury is still out for me on this midfield - namely the DMs. Time will tell  

Edited November 29, 2015 by Defibrillator