HEARTinator Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 So Koren didn't hang about when substituted but went straight down the tunnel to the change rooms. Wonder what that was all about? Not happy with JVS maybe ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attack11 Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 I just can't understand how a team that performed well in previous weeks and smashes Newcastle 5-2 .. 4 days ago can put that performance in against CCM???? We as a club have been in this situation before where we play well and are expected to win and take the next step and show the league we are a serious contender .... and then.... We put in this shit performance against an average team who should be no where near the top 6... After today's game it more than confirmed to me my thought on JVS as head coach which is He Will Never Make Us a TOP Team in This League. With JVS we will be a roller coaster team at best... He cannot give us the polish we need to be a contender ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 So Koren didn't hang about when substituted but went straight down the tunnel to the change rooms. Wonder what that was all about? Not happy with JVS maybe ? I floated this question earlier as I also thought it was interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF33 Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 You know, it could just be a plot to get us to stop bitching about losing the red and white...diabolical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofhearts Posted January 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 So Koren didn't hang about when substituted but went straight down the tunnel to the change rooms. Wonder what that was all about? Not happy with JVS maybe ? I floated this question earlier as I also thought it was interesting. I reckon he was just cut about the way the team was going and couldn't put up with it anymore which is not a bad thing IMO. Shows he gives a fuck how the teams going. Does anyone know if he came back on the field after the game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rass Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Why isn't anyone questioning Paartalu here? Our back 4 today was as susceptible as it will ever be this season, he should have been even more aware of his screening responsibility. Where the f**k was he for those two goals... and the rest of the game too fwiw? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewmelbcity Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Or it could be a conspiracy to play absolute shit in red n white, so every time supporters see red and white they associate it with our shit style of play cause I'm telling you now it's starting to work for me now every time I look in the wardrobe and see my old heart gear I start to see the association of failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperfuzz Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 So Koren didn't hang about when substituted but went straight down the tunnel to the change rooms. Wonder what that was all about? Not happy with JVS maybe ? or could be to start rehab? or to give a tando a hug? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonyboozeadams Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 the optimist in me says that this loss is a good thing. It may spur the board into getting some defenders in who can actually defend. The pessimist(heart fan) in me thinks that kisnorbo, ramsay, duga and willo will get new contracts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silva10 Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 the optimist in me says that this loss is a good thing. It may spur the board into getting some defenders in who can actually defend. The pessimist(heart fan) in me thinks that kisnorbo, ramsay, duga and willo will get new contracts Now I know what you mean...but their is zero chance of that. Especially after today's performance from Kisnorbo, Duga and Willo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) I'm going to check out the game again but my first thought is that if JVS could go back prior to kick off and make one change it would be to play Germano instead of Archibald. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone but had this happenned a fair few on here would be questioning why Archibald wasn't being played. Either way no matter who we played we were going to have a weaker defensive unit than the last few games. And unfortunately Archibald starting lead to him having probably his poorest performance in a Melbourne City jersey. Right now in this situation we just didn't have the depth to cover losing Chapman and Hoffman for the same game. JVS certainly can't be blamed for the choices he made, although in hindsight it's easy to, and he can't be blamed for the simple defensive errors made by our players. But he does take responsiblity for why we don't have the depth in our defensive unit, something we have discussed over and over and hopefully something we can overcome this January period. I thought we created enough clear cut chances to put us at least two goals to the good, and instead of taking them we made Reddy look like an amazing keeper by not being able to place simple headers away like Mooys header from six yards away. I also thought we did well when we went down to ten men and had quite a bit of possession on the ball. As for the decision to take Koren off I'm not sure about that one. Maybe it was because he thought Koren wasnt physically able to run out the game. And I don't know why Koren went straight to the change rooms after being taken off. Perhaps these will be answered in the press conference. It's pretty obvious but this game only confirmed what we already knew and that is our defensive depth is paper thin no doubt about it. Archibald is our best defensive prospect from the youth team which shows the gapping difference between the two leagues. It also squashes any thought of bringing in an NPL player as Archibald would be NPL quality. Edited January 4, 2015 by n i k o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonyboozeadams Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 the optimist in me says that this loss is a good thing. It may spur the board into getting some defenders in who can actually defend. The pessimist(heart fan) in me thinks that kisnorbo, ramsay, duga and willo will get new contracts Now I know what you mean...but their is zero chance of that. Especially after today's performance from Kisnorbo, Duga and Willo alot of these spuds got new contracts last year after worse performances than tonight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedAndWhitePride Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 The pessimist(heart fan) in me thinks that kisnorbo, ramsay, duga and willo will get new contracts I would actually stop supporting the club if that happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonyboozeadams Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 The pessimist(heart fan) in me thinks that kisnorbo, ramsay, duga and willo will get new contracts I would actually stop supporting the club if that happened. I'd stop supporting if it didn't happen. has kept me here for a long time 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonyboozeadams Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 it's like a Shakespearean comedy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silva10 Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 the optimist in me says that this loss is a good thing. It may spur the board into getting some defenders in who can actually defend. The pessimist(heart fan) in me thinks that kisnorbo, ramsay, duga and willo will get new contracts Now I know what you mean...but their is zero chance of that. Especially after today's performance from Kisnorbo, Duga and Willo alot of these spuds got new contracts last year after worse performances than tonight Well JVS's job was not on the line last year. There will be a clearing of the decks in the summer, starting with the players who are out of contrcat in the summer. This will make room for new players Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 I suspect the reason for taking Koren off was being 2-0 down and a man down, JVS accepted that we're going to lose and didn't want to risk making a bad day even worse with Koren going down injured, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 We lost to a team who hadn't won a game in 83 days....83 DAYS We also lost to a team that had only led for a total of 70 minutes for the entire season!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neio Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Still can't believe we played like that to a club who thinks it's a good idea to have everyone dress as pirates Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 I believe Koren was captain of Hull City in the EPL last season. He should be captain, not an underperforming Kisnorbo who wouldn't be in the starting 11 of the best A League teams. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHFCROB24 Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Looking at the top scorers list I think it is evident that Mate, Williams and Ramsey need to go. Brown just give her a solid go and let's see what he can do before we make a call on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torn Asunder Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) Man, that was a hard game to watch ... Don't know why we started so slow out of the blocks, pundits on this forum were suggesting we go hard early and try and dominate proceedings and grab an early goal ... instead we sat back and looked like we didnt want to play, and CCM did the same... it was like two fighters testing each other out before actually going at it for real and in truth, CCM were already on the ropes so we should have never given them a sniff. Then the two goals we conceeded were through calamitous defending. Archibald seems in no way ready for senior football and paired with Paddy, it was a train wreck. Unfortunately for Archibald, his performance was that bad that it could be career over. When we had to chase the game, there were glimpses of slick play, and we could have scored 3 - Reddy did make some good saves - however, we could have conceeded also, given how poor our defending was. Feel for Tando as he had staked a claim for the No 1 ... hopefully Redders now stands up for the next game at least. For me, the only way will have any chance of getting something meaningful out of the season is through squad improvements this January. We have all seem how much Melling, Chapman & Koren have added to the overall quality of the team ... if Kennedy can stay fit and we can bring in a LB and a maybe another CB that would be freaking great ... Edited January 4, 2015 by Torn Asunder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHFCROB24 Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Shocked to see how slow we were out the blocks - I put the tv on went to the kitchen to start dinner - my girlfriend yells out omg that was horrible. My response who? ....... I walked in to see that shitty cannon being fired enough said...... Why can we not beat CCM have we beaten them once only? EVER? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrison Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Well, that was abysmal. Kisnorbo - too slow Archibald - not up to it Wielaert - not a full-back, barely a centre-back now Paartalu - asleep at the wheel, everything seems to be in slow motion Garuccio - tried a few hero runs down the line, turned it over, put Tando in an awkward spot... Dugandzic - you've got to go, far too inconsistent, yet again an insipid performance Williams - not a striker, didn't realise he was even on the park for most of the match On the positive side: Germano - didn't suffer a calf/hamstring/virtually any muscle strain, was good value at full-back and holding mid Koren - a class above everyone Duff - not his usual self but did a few good things Mooy - also not his usual self but made a few good passes, was partially culpable for the first goal Redmayne - a rare appearance, did what he had to do Tando - makes the positives list for his kamikaze effort on Duke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF33 Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Still can't believe we played like that to a club who thinks it's a good idea to have everyone dress as pirates When someone mentioned that earlier in the week in this thread, I honestly thought they were joking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF33 Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 I suspect the reason for taking Koren off was being 2-0 down and a man down, JVS accepted that we're going to lose and didn't want to risk making a bad day even worse with Koren going down injured, This just doesn't wash with me. This is a Central Coast team that has been nearly as bad as we were to this point last year. If we'd managed to score a goal (something we had done in every game this year, let's not forget) at any point in the next 25-30 minutes, the Mariners would have started shitting themselves, playing scared and trying to hang on. We've seen it happen plenty of times when our team has been in that position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embee Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 I personally think it was less to do with throwing in the towel and more to do with managing a player who is coming back from an injury, especially seeing as the injury he suffered (calf) can become a recurring problem in older players if not managed correctly. JVS probably planned to sub Koren off at some stage regardless and given that he only had one sub left figured he had no choice but to pull the pin on him rather than risk Koren breaking down again. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 I was so disappointed, shattered and let down yesterday that I couldn't bare to read this forum. I'm so thankful that my Wednesday boys showed me what it's like to play with heart and numbed the pain of what these useless pricks did to me yesterday. I truly thought we had every right to be confident and now so much of that hard work has been undone. Our defense is woeful but aside from Chapman what can we do to fix it? It's going to be crucial next year that we get our opened up visa spots right. Find a central defender that hasn't lost all their pace. Just on Koren going down the tunnel early, I took that as he was going to have a word with Velaphi, the poor guy was in tears as he came off and must feel like he's let his one opportunity slip away. The positive out of today is even after a disgusting performance like that we're still sixth. It's kind of amazing to be at the half way point and in this position. It's kind of exciting and pathetic at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF33 Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 I personally think it was less to do with throwing in the towel and more to do with managing a player who is coming back from an injury, especially seeing as the injury he suffered (calf) can become a recurring problem in older players if not managed correctly. JVS probably planned to sub Koren off at some stage regardless and given that he only had one sub left figured he had no choice but to pull the pin on him rather than risk Koren breaking down again. I hope so and if that's the case, I'd say it's fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiro Kompiro Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) There were two issues yesterday. 1. The back 4 without Chapman, its been done to death. Our makeshift full backs had a hand in their goals or the send off. 2. The bigger issue was the midfield. When we announced Koren, my thoughts were about how he and Mooy would fit in together. Partalu signing mean we would play with two AM's and one DM. I always thought that a suspect set up with such a poor defence. its turned out even worse because Partalu is not who he was at Roar. Without Melling there was no defensive bite. So how do we fit Partalu, Melling Koren and Mooy? My suggestion is we play Koren further up and drop Williams. Edited January 5, 2015 by Kiro Kompiro 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perthheart Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 I'd honestly pin that whole track wreck on Archibald playing. He was so far out of his depth it hurt to watch. Defences work as a unit and when one piece is so horrendously unable to perform his part the rest caves around it. Paddy has looked far better with chapman next to him as they have attributes that compliment each other. I doubt either of those goals would have been conceded if even Wielaert and Paddy were back together as a cb pairing from the outset of the game. You can point to issues in the middle of the park but by and large we had more of the ball than CCM, just our lack of cutting edge in the final third is exposed far worse when chasing a game after conceding ridiculous goals. One of those games that lays our frailities as a squad bare for all to see. Hopefully Kennedy goes a ways to correcting the front third issues and we clearly need two new defenders in this window, a centre back and a left back ideally. If we fix our defence we can give most teams a shake in this league as we won't be chasing games all the time. To those complaining about Koren coming off after Tando's hilarious red card, I'm glad you're not in charge of a football club that is managing players back from injury. Same goes for Chapman not starting, the kids coming back from Glandular fever, I'm amazed he's starting a-league games at all, let alone become the most important part of our defensive unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF33 Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) I was so disappointed, shattered and let down yesterday that I couldn't bare to read this forum. I'm so thankful that my Wednesday boys showed me what it's like to play with heart and numbed the pain of what these useless pricks did to me yesterday. I truly thought we had every right to be confident and now so much of that hard work has been undone. Our defense is woeful but aside from Chapman what can we do to fix it? It's going to be crucial next year that we get our opened up visa spots right. Find a central defender that hasn't lost all their pace. Just on Koren going down the tunnel early, I took that as he was going to have a word with Velaphi, the poor guy was in tears as he came off and must feel like he's let his one opportunity slip away.The positive out of today is even after a disgusting performance like that we're still sixth. It's kind of amazing to be at the half way point and in this position. It's kind of exciting and pathetic at the same time. It's worth remembering. There was always going to be two sides out of what was to be achieved out of yesterday. One half was the points aspect and the other half was just keeping up the momentum and the winning mentality. Now, of course, we failed comprehensively on both fronts, but what did the teams around us do? Victory lost, Sydney drew at home to Newcastle, Brisbane lost and Adelaide plays away to Perth tonight. GD aside, we actually haven't lost that much ground on the teams that should also be fighting for the spots from 3-7. Which means that the team has a chance to respond in the first game back and show us that it actually has some backbone. Regarding Koren/Velaphi...not saying you're wrong, but it's an extremely optimistic theory. I'd be absolutely amazed if that was the first thing on Koren's mind as he left the park. I'm not saying that it was a sign of a player mutiny either and we'll probably never know the full story (no doubt, even if the team does address what was going on there, it will just say that he was scheduled to come off and he was going into the rooms to get some rehab done). I'd say by far the most likely scenario is that Koren was filthy about how the team was playing (and maybe about coming off...who knows?), he needed some time away from the cameras to vent and by the time the final whistle had gone, he had settled down and was ok. Edited January 5, 2015 by SF33 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 For the record JVS said that Chapman was suffering from a tight hamstring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlings Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loriente Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 I'd honestly pin that whole track wreck on Archibald playing. He was so far out of his depth it hurt to watch. Defences work as a unit and when one piece is so horrendously unable to perform his part the rest caves around it. Paddy has looked far better with chapman next to him as they have attributes that compliment each other. I doubt either of those goals would have been conceded if even Wielaert and Paddy were back together as a cb pairing from the outset of the game. You can point to issues in the middle of the park but by and large we had more of the ball than CCM, just our lack of cutting edge in the final third is exposed far worse when chasing a game after conceding ridiculous goals. One of those games that lays our frailities as a squad bare for all to see. Hopefully Kennedy goes a ways to correcting the front third issues and we clearly need two new defenders in this window, a centre back and a left back ideally. If we fix our defence we can give most teams a shake in this league as we won't be chasing games all the time. To those complaining about Koren coming off after Tando's hilarious red card, I'm glad you're not in charge of a football club that is managing players back from injury. Same goes for Chapman not starting, the kids coming back from Glandular fever, I'm amazed he's starting a-league games at all, let alone become the most important part of our defensive unit. I 100% agree with this post. JVS must take the blame for introducing a new centre back pairing when an existing one was readily available. In hindsight, I'm sure JVS would rather have started Archibald at RB (or even Germano). Better to have a hole in your defence down your wing than in the centre; CCM were able to stroll through the gap for the easiest goal you are likely to see. JVS must also shoulder the blame for failing to recruit sufficient defensive depth in every position across the back 4. Kisnorbo is (at the very least) as culpable for both goals as Archibald. Stood and watched the first one go in, then ball watched (along with Mooy) while Duke drifted into a goal scoring position on the edge of the box unmarked. Literally their only player capable of scoring a goal and no one was anywhere near him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perthheart Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) I'd love to blame kisnorbo/ others for the two goals but the simple fact is Kisnorbo is made to look bad by being next to an incompetent cb partner. Archibald should have ushered Duke away from goal or stepped in with a tackle for the first and should have just cleared the ball for the second. When one player makes horrendous mistakes it leaves others looking bad around them. Should have been dealt with before Kisnorbo was thought about as having anything not do with the passage of play. Completely agree it's JVS' fault for playing Archibald there. Particularly after his showing against Wellington where he had already shown himself not up to the standard required. Edit: Don't read this as me defending Kisnorbo as he still has glaring deficiencies at this stage of his career but he was not at fault for the goals yesterday. No other centre back in this league would have been able to cover for Archibald yesterday though. Edited January 5, 2015 by perthheart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loriente Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 I'd love to blame kisnorbo/ others for the two goals but the simple fact is Kisnorbo is made to look bad by being next to an incompetent cb partner. Archibald should have ushered Duke away from goal or stepped in with a tackle for the first and should have just cleared the ball for the second. When one player makes horrendous mistakes it leaves others looking bad around them. Should have been dealt with before Kisnorbo was thought about as having anything not do with the passage of play. Completely agree it's JVS' fault for playing Archibald there. Particularly after his showing against Wellington where he had already shown himself not up to the standard required. Edit: Don't read this as me defending Kisnorbo as he still has glaring deficiencies at this stage of his career but he was not at fault for the goals yesterday. No other centre back in this league would have been able to cover for Archibald yesterday though. If your CB partner is going full retard, the least you can do is mark the opposition's lone striker in the mean time... instead, Kisnorbo got caught ball watching. Seriously, watch the replay of the second goal and Kisnorbo literally just stands and watches it all unfold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 With Chapman (sensibly) rested, van 't Schip had no option but to play Archibald somewhere. Who else was there? Granted Archibald may not be up to it, but the real fault lies with the club for going into a season with a threadbare defence. Archibald is a youth squad player on a youth contract. He usually plays in the NYL, and there's a yawning gap between the A-League and the NYL. Ideally clubs introduce young players to first-team football when the rest of the team is playing well and so they can be helped through their early matches. Ross may have had a shocker and I'm not trying to defend him for that. But the real culprits here are the management for the complete stuff-up they've made with our defence. It could well spell the end of Archibald's aspirations to an A-League contract, it's wrecked Ramsay's career, and threatens to do the same with Ben Garuccio. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) I just can't understand how a team that performed well in previous weeks and smashes Newcastle 5-2 .. 4 days ago can put that performance in against CCM???? Possibly because the majority of them went on the piss on NYE and as professional footballers, you don't recover that quickly. Edited January 5, 2015 by Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony999 Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Kisnorbo for the tip! Throw Wielaert in there while you're at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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