The Frank Lampard thread

[billymumphrey]

 

Every owner is loaded. 

 

But millionaire/billionaires don't get to where they are by losing money, in fact it takes a psychopathetic attitude to money often to become the elite 1%.  Clive Palmer wanted to save money by locking out fans, our owners did whatever they did to double their money.

 

I think we'd be the only one willing to spend excessive amounts above what we would this season (maybe 4m would turn into 8-10m).  I don't see others doing that.

 

I like the cap, and if we get the 3 marquee signings right, meaning they are the best international, best australian and best under 23, that is a good challenge, but we should be able to do it and that alone would make us favourites.  If we can't win the title with that advantage, then we need to fix alot of things as have been evident.

 

I just hope the new owners don't underplay the A-League, by giving NYCFC genuine superstars, then give us someone a solid A-League team could get anyway.

 

Well, yeah, but there's more than one way to skin a cat. You can operate like Donald Sterling did for decades with the L.A. Clippers, pay the bare minimum, let your free agents walk time and again, rather than paying them market value and reap the rewards of a) having a franchise in L.A.; and b ) being fortunate enough to be an owner when the league went through an unprecedented boom. That first part sounded quite similar to how Heart was operating and our owners probably were a bit fortunate that the club was in Melbourne (chances are always pretty good that someone will want to buy one of the two football franchises in Melbourne). An NBA owner, even in a small market city like Milwaukee, can operate like Sterling and just rake in the money, especially if and when they decide to sell, because someone will always be keen to purchase an NBA franchise, whatever the cost and because most teams, regardless of how rubbish they are, generally play to packed stadiums every night. But, I don't think that's the way to make money, long-term, as an A-League owner, because unlike most big-time international sports, in Australia the supply (in terms of seats) generally far outweighs the demand.

 

Being in Melbourne (rather than say, Gosford or Newcastle) and having AAMI as the home stadium are already a couple of advantages. Really, I would have thought they were the two biggest ticks next to the club, when CFG was looking to buy. But I would say the way to make money as an A-League owner, long-term, is to do what our owner is doing. If we get the squad that we anticipate we'll get, we're either going to:

 

1. Win a truckload of trophies

2. Be playing in a  much more highly-rated league, as other teams scramble to catch up; or

3. Both

 

If either 1 or 2 happens, the value of the team will rise considerably.

 

Then, if and when CFG looks to sell, rather than it looking like a fire sale of the franchise at the end of last year, he'll be fielding offers for massive money, that will dwarf the original investment. I reckon the model/plan for increasing the value of this asset is to spend the money, win lots of games, build the crowds. And then there's the stuff on the periphery like the academy (if you're one of the best young footballers in the state and had a choice, you'd probably go to the academy with a direct link to the EPL, wouldn't you?), the training base(s) that have been built and so on. The sky's the limit.

 

 

I take your points, but I don't think CFG are in the business of flipping football clubs like houses.

 

A lot of fans of other club throw out the refrain of "How is Manchester City going to look like when the owner walks away?" failing to see that they are in it for the long haul. You don't invest billions of dollars in property and development turning derelict industrial land surrounding the stadium into new infrastructure if you've got a short term investment horizon.

[thisphantomfortress]

 

 

Every owner is loaded. 

 

But millionaire/billionaires don't get to where they are by losing money, in fact it takes a psychopathetic attitude to money often to become the elite 1%.  Clive Palmer wanted to save money by locking out fans, our owners did whatever they did to double their money.

 

I think we'd be the only one willing to spend excessive amounts above what we would this season (maybe 4m would turn into 8-10m).  I don't see others doing that.

 

I like the cap, and if we get the 3 marquee signings right, meaning they are the best international, best australian and best under 23, that is a good challenge, but we should be able to do it and that alone would make us favourites.  If we can't win the title with that advantage, then we need to fix alot of things as have been evident.

 

I just hope the new owners don't underplay the A-League, by giving NYCFC genuine superstars, then give us someone a solid A-League team could get anyway.

 

Well, yeah, but there's more than one way to skin a cat. You can operate like Donald Sterling did for decades with the L.A. Clippers, pay the bare minimum, let your free agents walk time and again, rather than paying them market value and reap the rewards of a) having a franchise in L.A.; and b ) being fortunate enough to be an owner when the league went through an unprecedented boom. That first part sounded quite similar to how Heart was operating and our owners probably were a bit fortunate that the club was in Melbourne (chances are always pretty good that someone will want to buy one of the two football franchises in Melbourne). An NBA owner, even in a small market city like Milwaukee, can operate like Sterling and just rake in the money, especially if and when they decide to sell, because someone will always be keen to purchase an NBA franchise, whatever the cost and because most teams, regardless of how rubbish they are, generally play to packed stadiums every night. But, I don't think that's the way to make money, long-term, as an A-League owner, because unlike most big-time international sports, in Australia the supply (in terms of seats) generally far outweighs the demand.

 

Being in Melbourne (rather than say, Gosford or Newcastle) and having AAMI as the home stadium are already a couple of advantages. Really, I would have thought they were the two biggest ticks next to the club, when CFG was looking to buy. But I would say the way to make money as an A-League owner, long-term, is to do what our owner is doing. If we get the squad that we anticipate we'll get, we're either going to:

 

1. Win a truckload of trophies

2. Be playing in a  much more highly-rated league, as other teams scramble to catch up; or

3. Both

 

If either 1 or 2 happens, the value of the team will rise considerably.

 

Then, if and when CFG looks to sell, rather than it looking like a fire sale of the franchise at the end of last year, he'll be fielding offers for massive money, that will dwarf the original investment. I reckon the model/plan for increasing the value of this asset is to spend the money, win lots of games, build the crowds. And then there's the stuff on the periphery like the academy (if you're one of the best young footballers in the state and had a choice, you'd probably go to the academy with a direct link to the EPL, wouldn't you?), the training base(s) that have been built and so on. The sky's the limit.

 

 

I take your points, but I don't think CFG are in the business of flipping football clubs like houses.

 

A lot of fans of other club throw out the refrain of "How is Manchester City going to look like when the owner walks away?" failing to see that they are in it for the long haul. You don't invest billions of dollars in property and development turning derelict industrial land surrounding the stadium into new infrastructure if you've got a short term investment horizon.

 

People having been saying this about Chelsea for years too and Roman is still there.

[SF33]

No doubt. but, whether he sells or not, it still amounts to the same thing, as far as I'm concerned. Given the sporting climate in Melbourne and the scope for growth, both within the city and in our home stadium (which was routinely quarter-full - or worse - during the Heart days), the best way to maximise the value of his asset, whether he sells in five years, ten years, twenty years, or never, is to swing for the fences and become the best team in Melbourne ASAP. I'm pretty confident that's the best way for him to make money on his investment, in both the short and long term.

 

I think step one for any Melbourne professional sporting team to be a financial success is to be an on-field success. There's definitely a 'build it and they will come' vibe about pretty much any sport in the city, especially when world-class players are running around. I didn't mean to suggest that Mansour will be selling any time soon, as I don't think he will. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

Edited July 10, 2014 by SF33

[billymumphrey]

No doubt. but, whether he sells or not, it still amounts to the same thing, as far as I'm concerned. Given the sporting climate in Melbourne and the scope for growth, both within the city and in our home stadium (which was routinely quarter-full - or worse - during the Heart days), the best way to maximise the value of his asset, whether he sells in five years, ten years, twenty years, or never, is to swing for the fences and become the best team in Melbourne ASAP. I'm pretty confident that's the best way for him to make money on his investment, in both the short and long term.

 

I think step one for any Melbourne professional sporting team to be a financial success is to be an on-field success. There's definitely a 'build it and they will come' vibe about pretty much any sport in the city, especially when world-class players are running around. I didn't mean to suggest that Mansour will be selling any time soon, as I don't think he will. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

 

No need to apologise.

 

I agree 100% about the on field succcess, balancing the books means nothing if you aren't constantly performing and challenging for titles.

 

People will decide to go to the games or watch on TV based on the onfield display and not the accounting and financial chicanery behind closed doors.

 

I can see short term wholsesale changes to bridge the gap (think of the big name signings lured by big money like Tevez, Adebayor, Bridge, Roque Santa Cruz), but once the place at the top of the league is entrenched, then hopefully the youth philosphy of bringing players through the academy will be paying dividends for Melbourne.

 

This is what is happening now at City. The spending has become normalised. You would be surprised to note that, not including transfers made this window, City has been outspent by both Chelsea and United in total over the last three seasons.

 

Once established Melbourne will be able to attract the best, as the benefits they get through developing at the club will outweigh the extra cash they could get elsewhere.

[Attack11]

I agree with some of the statements however, I believe that it will all come down to on field performance and that is if we are seen to be successful and Memberships go up, and we start competing in the ACL. The owners will have us as a priority and additional sponsors are going to want to be apart of Melbourne City FC thus starting to pay dividends for owners and all parties involved. If however we are not seen to be successful due to memberships not increasing etc. etc then I can really see our club becoming a feeder to NYCFC.

 

I don't think that will happen, I can see Melbourne City FC competing for Silverware season in - season out and it's not because of the super stars that are coming, but because of our style of play that we will adopt which will be much more attacking and fast paced.

[jw1739]

I agree with some of the statements however, I believe that it will all come down to on field performance and that is if we are seen to be successful and Memberships go up, and we start competing in the ACL. The owners will have us as a priority and additional sponsors are going to want to be apart of Melbourne City FC thus starting to pay dividends for owners and all parties involved. If however we are not seen to be successful due to memberships not increasing etc. etc then I can really see our club becoming a feeder to NYCFC.

 

I don't think that will happen, I can see Melbourne City FC competing for Silverware season in - season out and it's not because of the super stars that are coming, but because of our style of play that we will adopt which will be much more attacking and fast paced.

Agree. The key is going to be on-field performance. I'm not expecting a huge increase in memberships or attendances until that occurs, basically because we've been the boy who cried "wolf" for four seasons and I think the Melbourne public has become sceptical that we have the necessaries to deliver.

 

We have made some sound signings so far, and the promise of David Villa on a short-term stint gives a great sense of anticipation. But IMO we've still got a lop-sided squad - two very average goalkeepers, not a genuine full-back in sight, only a young player as a CB back-up, and an erratic central striker - with an overloaded midfield. Yes it's three months until the season kicks off but there are significant gaps still to fill.

 

I'm reasonably optimistic about 2014-15, but some of the other squads are building nicely too, and IMO there will be plenty of people out there who will be waiting to see how we go before committing themselves to Melbourne City. The expected revolution may be more of a slow burn than an explosion.

[fiz.heart]

 

I agree with some of the statements however, I believe that it will all come down to on field performance and that is if we are seen to be successful and Memberships go up, and we start competing in the ACL. The owners will have us as a priority and additional sponsors are going to want to be apart of Melbourne City FC thus starting to pay dividends for owners and all parties involved. If however we are not seen to be successful due to memberships not increasing etc. etc then I can really see our club becoming a feeder to NYCFC.

 

I don't think that will happen, I can see Melbourne City FC competing for Silverware season in - season out and it's not because of the super stars that are coming, but because of our style of play that we will adopt which will be much more attacking and fast paced.

Agree. The key is going to be on-field performance. I'm not expecting a huge increase in memberships or attendances until that occurs, basically because we've been the boy who cried "wolf" for four seasons and I think the Melbourne public has become sceptical that we have the necessaries to deliver.

 

We have made some sound signings so far, and the promise of David Villa on a short-term stint gives a great sense of anticipation. But IMO we've still got a lop-sided squad - two very average goalkeepers, not a genuine full-back in sight, only a young player as a CB back-up, and an erratic central striker - with an overloaded midfield. Yes it's three months until the season kicks off but there are significant gaps still to fill.

 

I'm reasonably optimistic about 2014-15, but some of the other squads are building nicely too, and IMO there will be plenty of people out there who will be waiting to see how we go before committing themselves to Melbourne City. The expected revolution may be more of a slow burn than an explosion.

 

 

The way we perform on the pitch will determine how far this revolution can take off. People will be expecting big things right from the beginning of the season. If we don't live up to these premature expectations then will criticism will follow. Don't forget this country is obsessed with underdogs.. It will be tall poppy syndrome at its finest.

[Nate]

I think it's reasonable to expect a certain level of achievement this season as we've been mediocre for far too long and with all of the resources and tools invested into the club we should be aiming for success.

 

At the moment though I'm not really certain our squad is overly amazing, we definitely need to make a few more quality signings because we're lacking depth in some very crucial areas.

[mulhollanddrive]

A-League history has shown big names don't win finals - Kewell, Fowler, Del Piero, Heskey etc...

 

Other players can't be thrown off their game, need a team effort.

[malloy]

A-League history has shown washed up big names don't win finals - Kewell, Fowler, Del Piero, Heskey etc...

Other players can't be thrown off their game, need a team effort.

Fixed all of the players you mentioned came to the a-league because they had no where else to go really.

Lamps (if he signs on) could walk into the starting lineup of any PL team other than the top 4-5. Villa came runner up in CL final. If you think the marquees of the aleague prior to CFG stack up against these two then you are sorely mistaken.

Look how much a difference Engelaar made and he was highly unfit. These two are better than OE

Edited July 11, 2014 by malloy

[Shahanga]

A-League history has shown big names don't win finals - Kewell, Fowler, Del Piero, Heskey etc...

 

Other players can't be thrown off their game, need a team effort.

I think the point really should be 1 single player is not the answer.  In a game they still have to receive the ball to someone and pass it to someone else.  Need a decent team around them to be effective.

 

'Arry Redknapp summed it up when he said he'd happily sell his best player when in trouble and buy 3 lesser ones to spread the talent a bit.

 

I reckon 3 would make a difference, but 1 is battling.

[Murfy1]

Agree. The key is going to be on-field performance. I'm not expecting a huge increase in memberships or attendances until that occurs, basically because we've been the boy who cried "wolf" for four seasons and I think the Melbourne public has become sceptical that we have the necessaries to deliver.

 

We have made some sound signings so far, and the promise of David Villa on a short-term stint gives a great sense of anticipation. But IMO we've still got a lop-sided squad - two very average goalkeepers, not a genuine full-back in sight, only a young player as a CB back-up, and an erratic central striker - with an overloaded midfield. Yes it's three months until the season kicks off but there are significant gaps still to fill.

 

I'm reasonably optimistic about 2014-15, but some of the other squads are building nicely too, and IMO there will be plenty of people out there who will be waiting to see how we go before committing themselves to Melbourne City. The expected revolution may be more of a slow burn than an explosion.

 

 

 

Agree with much of this.

 

Scott Munn said earlier this week "we're really positive about the [playing] list we're getting together", but to be honest our squad really isn't that exciting ATM, and it simply doesn't look certain to challenge for silverware next season ATM IMO. It includes 14 players from our massively disappointing previous season (and whilst I'm tipping many players to be much improved, due to the new coaching staff & circumstances around the club, the club shouldn't overly rely on those 14 improving). And apart from exciting Mooy, who was signed pre-takeover, we've signed 2 kids in Chapman & Melling (that is, they are unproven, they could be awesome next season or they could be terrible, it's a roll of the dice), James Brown (ordinary over his most recent seasons, and a player the club is probably banking on improving) and Damien Duff (who I think will be a hit, but he's only signed up for a season and it's unclear if a 35 year old like him can better our team over the long term).

 

I agree with all of JW's points (except 1) about our squad: we only have 1 inconsistent striker, average GKs, no real fullbacks, and only the kids Chapman and Archibald as cover for Wielaert, 35, and recovering from surgery Kisnorbo, 33. Although I'm pretty satisfied with our midfield options, and think our midfield just shows how few respectable options we have in defence and the striker department by comparison.

 

The club has about 4-5 spots left to land quality signings, along with maybe a couple of youth signings, and IMO we really need to get these signings right to challenge for silverware next season. And then there's our first competitive FFA cup match, which takes place in 1 month and 1 day, and IMO unless other factors help us out (e.g. home ground advantage, and Sydney suffering because multiple players of theirs play in the All Stars match 2 days prior) I think there's a real chance that we could lose to Sydney, because on paper I think their squad might edge ours ATM (for instance, we only have Williams who is a forward who can play in the centre, whereas Sydney have Smeltz, Brosque, Ibini and Gameiro!).

 

 

I think the club will ultimately do an excellent job with the playing list, and I believe the team will impress next season. But the club too much compares with last season for my liking, where we waited and waited for our first choice striker, who we were told was going to be worth the wait... and then we got Mifsud. Patience isn't always a virtue when it comes to player recruitment, and the similarities to last season (with 14 of last season's players and this slow & steady recruitment), along with Duff being the only proven new signing of almost a half-year under the new ownership, I personally find surprising.

 

Next season will come together IMO, and I'm tipping the team to do impressively well. But if the club overly relies on the 14 players we had last season, and doesn't really make the remaining 4-5 signings count, then we may not get off to a real successful start in our first season. 

Edited July 11, 2014 by Murfy1

[belaguttman]

Agree, most of those carry over players should be depth players rather than first 11

[Jovan]

Agree. The key is going to be on-field performance. I'm not expecting a huge increase in memberships or attendances until that occurs, basically because we've been the boy who cried "wolf" for four seasons and I think the Melbourne public has become sceptical that we have the necessaries to deliver.

 

We have made some sound signings so far, and the promise of David Villa on a short-term stint gives a great sense of anticipation. But IMO we've still got a lop-sided squad - two very average goalkeepers, not a genuine full-back in sight, only a young player as a CB back-up, and an erratic central striker - with an overloaded midfield. Yes it's three months until the season kicks off but there are significant gaps still to fill.

 

I'm reasonably optimistic about 2014-15, but some of the other squads are building nicely too, and IMO there will be plenty of people out there who will be waiting to see how we go before committing themselves to Melbourne City. The expected revolution may be more of a slow burn than an explosion.

 

 

Agree with much of this.

 

Scott Munn said earlier this week "we're really positive about the [playing] list we're getting together", but to be honest our squad really isn't that exciting ATM, and it simply doesn't look certain to challenge for silverware next season ATM IMO. It includes 14 players from our massively disappointing previous season (and whilst I'm tipping many players to be much improved, due to the new coaching staff & circumstances around the club, the club shouldn't overly rely on those 14 improving). And apart from exciting Mooy, who was signed pre-takeover, we've signed 2 kids in Chapman & Melling (that is, they are unproven, they could be awesome next season or they could be terrible, it's a roll of the dice), James Brown (ordinary over his most recent seasons, and a player the club is probably banking on improving) and Damien Duff (who I think will be a hit, but he's only signed up for a season and it's unclear if a 35 year old like him can better our team over the long term).

 

I agree with all of JW's points (except 1) about our squad: we only have 1 inconsistent striker, average GKs, no real fullbacks, and only the kids Chapman and Archibald as cover for Wielaert, 35, and recovering from surgery Kisnorbo, 33. Although I'm pretty satisfied with our midfield options, and think our midfield just shows how few respectable options we have in defence and the striker department by comparison.

 

The club has about 4-5 spots left to land quality signings, along with maybe a couple of youth signings, and IMO we really need to get these signings right to challenge for silverware next season. And then there's our first competitive FFA cup match, which takes place in 1 month and 1 day, and IMO unless other factors help us out (e.g. home ground advantage, and Sydney suffering because multiple players of theirs play in the All Stars match 2 days prior) I think there's a real chance that we could lose to Sydney, because on paper I think their squad might edge ours ATM (for instance, we only have Williams who is a forward who can play in the centre, whereas Sydney have Smeltz, Brosque, Ibini and Gameiro!).

 

 

I think the club will ultimately do an excellent job with the playing list, and I believe the team will impress next season. But the club too much compares with last season for my liking, where we waited and waited for our first choice striker, who we were told was going to be worth the wait... and then we got Mifsud. Patience isn't always a virtue when it comes to player recruitment, and the similarities to last season (with 14 of last season's players and this slow & steady recruitment), along with Duff being the only proven new signing of almost a half-year under the new ownership, I personally find surprising.

 

Next season will come together IMO, and I'm tipping the team to do impressively well. But if the club overly relies on the 14 players we had last season, and doesn't really make the remaining 4-5 signings count, then we may not get off to a real successful start in our first season.

Totally agree. The 2 marquee spots plus the last visa spot will be crucial. If these 3 players can play 20 plus games at very high standard then we have a shot. If they don't turn out or don't reach the levels required we could struggle. In one off season there is only so much you can do to turn around a squad that finished last and 2nd last.

[drewmelbcity]

I think you guys are under selling us a bit when jvs took over last season we were a lot better and yes a lot has to do with engelaar playing but if we get the international marquee right then we should be able to compete for top six for sure, duga will get better, duff is going to be classy, mooy adds more quality to the engine room, mauk and Garuccio will add depth, Williams will be more accountable and I expect more goals this season, I think like munn said we are tracking well, and with villa there for the start of the season it adds a winning feeling to the club

Edited July 11, 2014 by drewmelbcity

[SF33]

I would have liked the Aus marquee to be locked in by now, at least. Even if it's Kennedy and we won't see him until 2015, it would just be nice to have someone confirmed. Because there doesn't seem to be much else about to really knock our socks off, besides him and Bresciano.

[Jovan]

I think you guys are under selling us a bit when jvs took over last season we were a lot better and yes a lot has to do with engelaar playing but if we get the international marquee right then we should be able to compete for top six for sure, duga will get better, duff is going to be classy, mooy adds more quality to the engine room, mauk and Garuccio will add depth, Williams will be more accountable and I expect more goals this season, I think like munn said we are tracking well, and with villa there for the start of the season it adds a winning feeling to the club

We finished last. We earned 2 points in our last 6 games. We have 14 players from last years squad. Reality as I see it is we have a long way to catch up. Not saying it can't be done but it may take longer than a lot think.

[K-aram92]

 

I think you guys are under selling us a bit when jvs took over last season we were a lot better and yes a lot has to do with engelaar playing but if we get the international marquee right then we should be able to compete for top six for sure, duga will get better, duff is going to be classy, mooy adds more quality to the engine room, mauk and Garuccio will add depth, Williams will be more accountable and I expect more goals this season, I think like munn said we are tracking well, and with villa there for the start of the season it adds a winning feeling to the club

We finished last. We earned 2 points in our last 6 games. We have 14 players from last years squad. Reality as I see it is we have a long way to catch up. Not saying it can't be done but it may take longer than a lot think.

 

That's the thing people need to remember. Although we went on that extremely good run of 6 wins and a draw from 7 games, we also had an almost equally as bad run of winless games immediately after that. So yes it's good that we performed well for a while, but if you can't sustain it, and even worse, can't return to that level of form after a few bad games, then all the good work has gone to waste. 

 

I certainly feel the great pre season in Manchester and the professionalism around the club will translate into bigger improvements from many of the 14 players from last season, and no doubt the addition of Mooy and Duff will help. The youngsters we can't get too excited about just yet but I'm optimistic. But I do agree that our squad still lacks up front and in the fullback areas so yes there's heaps of time until the season starts, but the longer we go without player/marquee announcements, the harder it is to see us forming a title winning team (at least this season anyway). 

[SF33]

Good points about the awful run at the end of the year pretty much undoing all the good work at the start of 2014. To be honest, I think a lot of it is mental. I've been a member for two years and I've never seen anything like this team's ability to turn three points into one, or one point into zero. It's things like that that they need to get right, in a hurry.

[K-aram92]

Good points about the awful run at the end of the year pretty much undoing all the good work at the start of 2014. To be honest, I think a lot of it is mental. I've been a member for two years and I've never seen anything like this team's ability to turn three points into one, or one point into zero. It's things like that that they need to get right, in a hurry.

We definitely panic when the pressure is on. And that pressure can come when we string together some wins and all of a sudden there's an expectation on us to win. And more frequently, the pressure comes when we hit the lead in games and have the responsibility to maintain the lead and defend against the late surges of the opposition. And that's probably one of the main areas that players like Duff, Villa and even Mooy to some extent will be able to help with. They have winning mentalities and that can be contagious amongst the playing group. 

[morphine]

There's a new podcast that talks about whether it's worth getting Lamps for just a handful of games, or whether a full-time marquee is worth it. Worth a listen - www.bleedingheartsfc.com

[Kiro Kompiro]

 

 

I think you guys are under selling us a bit when jvs took over last season we were a lot better and yes a lot has to do with engelaar playing but if we get the international marquee right then we should be able to compete for top six for sure, duga will get better, duff is going to be classy, mooy adds more quality to the engine room, mauk and Garuccio will add depth, Williams will be more accountable and I expect more goals this season, I think like munn said we are tracking well, and with villa there for the start of the season it adds a winning feeling to the club

We finished last. We earned 2 points in our last 6 games. We have 14 players from last years squad. Reality as I see it is we have a long way to catch up. Not saying it can't be done but it may take longer than a lot think.

 

That's the thing people need to remember. Although we went on that extremely good run of 6 wins and a draw from 7 games, we also had an almost equally as bad run of winless games immediately after that. So yes it's good that we performed well for a while, but if you can't sustain it, and even worse, can't return to that level of form after a few bad games, then all the good work has gone to waste. 

 

 

 

JVS has done that before.  This is why I am on the record that JVS is not the man for the job.

[Tonyboozeadams]

But who, last season, did look convincing? Brisbane, Adelaide (towards the end) and at a stretch WSW. Every other team looked a bit rubbish for many patches in the season. It doesn't take that much improvement to be contenders to the top 4. IMO our current playing roster is almost there. I'd take our current team over CCM, NJ, PG, WP. And that doesnb't include the fact that we have a competent manager, a good pre-season, and better training facilities. 

 

I'd also argue that we have one of the best midfields in the league. Sydney may have good strikers but their midfield is a bit rubbish. WSW have lost key players and roar might struggle without berisha. 

 

Marquees and remaining transfers will be key. And hopefully will push us to be competitive with Brisbane and WSW and aim towards top 2 rather than just improving on last season

[drewmelbcity]

I believe a pass Mark for us is a home final so top four

[HeartFc]

It say a pass mark would be some form of silverware imo

[Red or Dead]

I believe a pass Mark for us is a home final so top four

That was SFC's pass mark last season with Frank Farina at the helm a 40 year old Captain and Nicky Carle! lol

 

I think we should expect to finish higher than that. Top 2 for me and win one of the three trophies on offer.

[jw1739]

IMO anything other than a comfortable top four finish is a fail.

 

Club needs to get into its collective head and various individual heads that being a football club is about winning.

 

I think all the other relevant points that I would like to make have been made above by commentators on this Forum that I have a lot of respect for, and I'm not going to repeat them. I know that I tend to be over-eager to see things happen, but my gut feeling at the moment is that we look to have gone off the boil in player recruitment. The reality is that since the takeover we've signed just one player - Damien Duff - for next season who is an automatic starting choice. The status of David Villa is still not confirmed.

 

Tempus fugit.

[Jestr]

But who, last season, did look convincing? Brisbane, Adelaide (towards the end) and at a stretch WSW. Every other team looked a bit rubbish for many patches in the season. It doesn't take that much improvement to be contenders to the top 4. IMO our current playing roster is almost there. I'd take our current team over CCM, NJ, PG, WP. And that doesnb't include the fact that we have a competent manager, a good pre-season, and better training facilities.

I'd also argue that we have one of the best midfields in the league. Sydney may have good strikers but their midfield is a bit rubbish. WSW have lost key players and roar might struggle without berisha.

Marquees and remaining transfers will be key. And hopefully will push us to be competitive with Brisbane and WSW and aim towards top 2 rather than just improving on last season

Agree with all of it

As for last line in your post....

Improving on last year, that wouldn't be too hard

Although I remember last season here most of us expected top 4 finish.

I'll wait until we kick the season of, with full squad

As JW pointed out our squad isn't much better then last year.

New tops, lots of fairy dust etc;

You can put lipstick on a pig...it is still a pig

[drewmelbcity]

Last season would have been better if the club didn't persist with ja for what seemed like an eternity, his retarded game plan of sitting long balls on top of a midgets head is what killed us our players are still pretty decent and we have added mooy and duff and yes it seems engelaar is out the door but I reckon we will secure a good int and aus marquee our list is not as in a bad condition as some may think and stuff those jvs knockers he is a good coach and when we are on song we can knock any club off

[K-aram92]

But who, last season, did look convincing? Brisbane, Adelaide (towards the end) and at a stretch WSW. Every other team looked a bit rubbish for many patches in the season.

I agree, and that's why I said that the problem isn't losing a couple of games, it's letting the poor form continue over about 5 or 6 games. You just don't see teams like Brisbane stay down for that long. Even if over 6 games they are clearly playing football that's far from their best, they still manage to pick up the points until they return to their best. 

 

But again, I agree with what you're saying about us not being that far off from the top and so if each player can stay fit, and improve from last year, then we certainly do look like we can jump up the ladder this season. And hopefully some big name signings can then take us up to the top 4 or 2. 

 

I'd like to put it on the record that I'm a big fan of JVS, and although we did have that poor run at the end, you could argue that he had one eye on this upcoming season, knowing that finals were most likely out of the question last season. But the pressure will be on him and I have faith that his playing style and tactical knowledge will get us to the top. 

[drewmelbcity]

But who, last season, did look convincing? Brisbane, Adelaide (towards the end) and at a stretch WSW. Every other team looked a bit rubbish for many patches in the season.

I agree, and that's why I said that the problem isn't losing a couple of games, it's letting the poor form continue over about 5 or 6 games. You just don't see teams like Brisbane stay down for that long. Even if over 6 games they are clearly playing football that's far from their best, they still manage to pick up the points until they return to their best.

But again, I agree with what you're saying about us not being that far off from the top and so if each player can stay fit, and improve from last year, then we certainly do look like we can jump up the ladder this season. And hopefully some big name signings can then take us up to the top 4 or 2.

I'd like to put it on the record that I'm a big fan of JVS, and although we did have that poor run at the end, you could argue that he had one eye on this upcoming season, knowing that finals were most likely out of the question last season. But the pressure will be on him and I have faith that his playing style and tactical knowledge will get us to the top.

Will know more once the marquee is signed but if it is as good as the names that are being thrown around I reckon we should be looking at a top 4

[Pandev]

It's been said many times before, it Takes more than 1 or 2 individuals. You need at least 3 to significantly influence the team success. With Duff now outboard, we need at lest 2 other permanent high quality players to make a real difference.

[drewmelbcity]

It's been said many times before, it Takes more than 1 or 2 individuals. You need at least 3 to significantly influence the team success. With Duff now outboard, we need at lest 2 other permanent high quality players to make a real difference.

Add mooy as well

[RedAndWhitePride]

Mooy now essentially replaces Engelaar, but the fact we've got him within the salary cap is obviously a great thing.

[mulhollanddrive]

Basically at the moment we're:

 

Minus - Engelaar, Kewell, Behich

Plus - Mooy, Duff

 

With Villa and possibly Lampard for 10 games.  With 2 marquees to come.

 

Agree the overall squad quality from 23 to 6 is basically the same.  So we'll be relying on 2 marquees, 2 guests and Mooy and Duff as the different players to take us from bottom to top.  Putting it like that we may rely on JVS coaching to make more of a difference from last season.

 

Another thing to consider with a new coach, is that the peak period with Villa and Lampard will also be the adjusting period for a new team and coach.  Results can be hard to get like that despite the talent.

 

Either way, if not this season, it's just a matter of time before our owners get it right.

Edited July 12, 2014 by mulhollanddrive

[M13]

There will be a plan, a blueprint for success and it will contain several phases of progress.. We know how CFG work by now
Basically it will be about constant improvement on all fronts, players/coaches/facilities/administration whatever.
They simply expect to win things in due time, they are patient but unless things are constantly improving they will replace people.

[mus-28]

I don't think we should consider Behich in the minus category. He was about as effective at LB as Mifsud was as a striker.

I can't recall ever seeing a player decline so rapidly in a 12 month period, whatever the reason.

[HEARTinator]

Basically at the moment we're:

 

Minus - Engelaar, Kewell, Behich

Plus - Mooy, Duff

 

With Villa and possibly Lampard for 10 games.  With 2 marquees to come.

 

Agree the overall squad quality from 23 to 6 is basically the same.  So we'll be relying on 2 marquees, 2 guests and Mooy and Duff as the different players to take us from bottom to top.  Putting it like that we may rely on JVS coaching to make more of a difference from last season.

 

Another thing to consider with a new coach, is that the peak period with Villa and Lampard will also be the adjusting period for a new team and coach.  Results can be hard to get like that despite the talent.

 

Either way, if not this season, it's just a matter of time before our owners get it right.

 

So far according to our 2014/2015 web site

 

GK : Andrew Redmayne, Tando Velaphi - HELP!

 

DF : Rob Wielaert, Patrick Kisnorbo, Connor Chapman - convert some of our many MFs into defensive units???

 

MF : Iain Ramsay, Massimo Murdocca, Damien Duff, Jonatan Germano, Jason Hoffman, Ben Garuccio, Stefan Mauk, Nick Kalmar, James Brown,  Aaron Mooy, Jacob Melling

 

FW : David Villa, David Williams, Mate Dugandžic

 

Villa on 10 game stint leaves 18 players.

 

Then have space for 3 marquees: International, Australian and Youth

 

Leaves another 2 spots to make 23.

 

The list is useful but would like to see another GK, experienced DF, quality MF/attacker and an out-and-out striker.

 

Hopefully a full squad of 23 will give us depth and this is going to put pressure on all players AND on JVS and coaching staff to perform. No excuses this season.

Edited July 12, 2014 by HEARTinator

[SF33]

But who, last season, did look convincing? Brisbane, Adelaide (towards the end) and at a stretch WSW. Every other team looked a bit rubbish for many patches in the season. It doesn't take that much improvement to be contenders to the top 4. IMO our current playing roster is almost there. I'd take our current team over CCM, NJ, PG, WP. And that doesnb't include the fact that we have a competent manager, a good pre-season, and better training facilities. 

 

I'd also argue that we have one of the best midfields in the league. Sydney may have good strikers but their midfield is a bit rubbish. WSW have lost key players and roar might struggle without berisha. 

 

Marquees and remaining transfers will be key. And hopefully will push us to be competitive with Brisbane and WSW and aim towards top 2 rather than just improving on last season

 

I agree with that as well. The flipside, or 'glass half full' perspective, of constantly turning wins into draws and draws into losses, is that we we've rarely been blown off the park in the past two years. It's probably part of the reason why Aloisi was able to get away with the 'we played really well...just unlucky' routine for so long. But there were very few games in 2012/13 and 2013/14 where I went in thinking we didn't have a chance. And most of the time that was correct.

[Tonyboozeadams]

Unless you are Brisbane, who have a prolonged history of winning, I don't see how you can aim for anything higher than top 4. Those spots are usually separated by a few points and isn't always indicative of form. Although the differencr between the top 4 and the rest is usually quite pronounced. A good striker should be enough for us to make finals. A good creative midfielder should see us challenge everyone else.

Grtting rid of ramsey and kalmar will help too.

There are other players in our team who are a bit shite, but when they play in a supporting role they should be quite handy. Mass, duga and willo in particular.we were shit when they were our go to guys, but if they are used in backup to duff, mooy and whoever we sign, they will be great squad players