Round 8 - Aloisi Farewell game: Melbourne v Adelaide, Sunday 5pm

[belaguttman]

I think that morphine's viewpoint is as important as everyone else's. I don't think that very many people would see the problem differently, we all have different solutions though. morphine what would you suggest is the best way to bring about the change that we all want?

[belaguttman]

 

 

I hope I wasn't the only one who saw through Aloisi's little performance after the game in front of Yarraside. He played a lot of you for fools and it was disappointing to see the youth fawning over him. 

 

Who cares if he's got 'a lot of heart for the club' if he can't manage a fucking team? Top bloke, but he's killing this club.

You should fucking care! We might not want him as Manager, but these pricks singing 'sacked in the morning' and holding up 'JA out' signs should show him some fucking respect.

 

The board know how the supporters feel. All of this silent protest bullshit has to stop. It's not going to change anything and all it does is further disrupt the club. Pull your head in.

So the board know how supporters feel and it still won't change it? Three fucking points all year, the worst football played and no fucking change.

Fuck off with your shit telling the fans to stop. At least their is passion in the fan base. The club got lucky cause they sure as hell are fucking spirit less and damn right a disgrace.

You can sit there and clap your hands at the crap that's gone on and being a puppet for the club, but telling fans to stop being passionate and displaying their true emotions is fucked up.

The club is a disgrace and as much as Aloisi is a great bloke he can't manage and we are suffering.

 

Its sorta like telling your kids they are the greatest no matter what their performance. We can be critical without being attacking.

[Shahanga]

So to change the tune (as it were) - does anyone know what the go was with the music yesterday?  Why did they play that f$%^king rap song before the game?  What happened to (we used to be) so happy together?

[thedukeofhearts]

So to change the tune (as it were) - does anyone know what the go was with the music yesterday?  Why did they play that f$%^king rap song before the game?  What happened to (we used to be) so happy together?

I'm assuming they cancelled it because they realised it wasn't going to be sung. Didn't want it to look bad so just skipped it to save embarrassment. 

[Defibrillator]

Not all the fans agree with you, so don't pretend the YS represents MH supporters as a whole. Also, the letter idea was pretty stupid, but there are other means to get a message across - but that's NOT the point!! The board do know how a lot of supporters feel. Does anyone here think that isn't the case? Does anyone think that the board are oblivious to all of this???

 

Another point I want to make about silent protest is that the message was NOT clear. What were you protesting? The club? the Board? The coach? A combination? "We won't stand for mediocrity" - well righteo, good to know! It was not effective and it certainly didn't help the team on the park. Anyway, that's over now.

 

Going forward, I have to say, I haven't read one post on here that clearly outlined a way forward. We can all agree that we are at our lowest ebb (results wise), but how do we move forward? 'Sack the coach' seems to be the prevailing message, but as I've said previously - you NEED to have someone better to replace him with. Is there a coach out there currently that is much better than JA that doesn't have a job? I don't know that there is? I haven't seen any realistic suggestions on here. I trust the Board over randoms to make that decision.

 

We are ALL frustrated with our current plight. I'm just of the opinion that as a supporter base we just need to be unified in our support for the lads on the pitch at the moment.

Thanks Morphine, I value your input and I certainly find the passionate dialogue great. This forum is incredibly even tempered and pretty respectful - another reason to love the Heart. Compare us to other clubs' forums and you'll see what I mean.

But my mood today wasn't helped by a club source telling me that for all intents and purposes, Alosisi was gone at half time, but the passion shown by the fans and players in the second half impressed the Board enough to hang on until the next home game. And before I'm asked, I won't name my source.

The most important person to the culture of a club and the public face of a club is it's manager. They control the playing style, discipline, media, decisions and carry the can. The Board should ideally facilitate the football department activities and provide support, but they should have faith in this department to guide the club forward and oversee the well being of the club. At present the clearest problem with the club is what is happening on the pitch. Football people are bemused and even people within the club look across town and see what the other mob is doing, and compare this to us, and scratch their heads. This is a club that is clearly failing in this regard and is showing no signs of improving. A 3-3 all home draw on the back of a lucky 20 minutes of football is, to me, a stay of execution, and not a long term solution.

I will turn your question around to you. Do you think by continuing with this action, we are furthering the long term viability or success of this club?? If you think the answer is yes, you would be in a tiny minority. If you think our current path is not good, then action needs (is mandated!!) to be taken. It is a results driven business we are looking at where inertia is death and we will become known as a soft club where the hard decisions can't be made. This will flow through the whole organization where mediocrity will be tolerated both on and off the pitch. This is not a club we want..

So it's not just sack the coach - but it does need to happen. I dont care overly who we get seriously as long as they bring fresh ideas and a solution based mentality with a strong character to try something new. What we are doing just ain't working and we are slowly dying.

For further solutions, we need to return to our core values of promoting youth and community engagement. Can you name one young player who has improved in the last 18 months at our club?? This is simply a disgrace by any coaching or development standards. The Academy is beginning, but why put all that effort in if you wont give the kids a chance?? We need to reach out into the community by being seen as the club that gives a rat's arse about football development, is respectful of all football people (non of this "one team in Melbourne" shit), and tries to play football the "right way". If you want to know what the "right way" is, it's football to develop future Socceroos and stars and I refer you to the FFA football curriculum. As a junior coach I watch Heart's current playing style and think what international scout would want anyone who only plays this style?? Its a fucking disgrace and no one is improving - no one!! At least JVS tried this and this is what attracted me to the club.

I hope I've given you a few solutions but this can't go on. We are dying as a club, inexorably and slowly.

[malloy]

Not all the fans agree with you, so don't pretend the YS represents MH supporters as a whole. Also, the letter idea was pretty stupid, but there are other means to get a message across - but that's NOT the point!! The board do know how a lot of supporters feel. Does anyone here think that isn't the case? Does anyone think that the board are oblivious to all of this???

Another point I want to make about silent protest is that the message was NOT clear. What were you protesting? The club? the Board? The coach? A combination? "We won't stand for mediocrity" - well righteo, good to know! It was not effective and it certainly didn't help the team on the park. Anyway, that's over now.

Going forward, I have to say, I haven't read one post on here that clearly outlined a way forward. We can all agree that we are at our lowest ebb (results wise), but how do we move forward? 'Sack the coach' seems to be the prevailing message, but as I've said previously - you NEED to have someone better to replace him with. Is there a coach out there currently that is much better than JA that doesn't have a job? I don't know that there is? I haven't seen any realistic suggestions on here. I trust the Board over randoms to make that decision.

We are ALL frustrated with our current plight. I'm just of the opinion that as a supporter base we just need to be unified in our support for the lads on the pitch at the moment.

Whether you don't understand or don't agree with the silent protest you should at least respect our decision to express our discontent in the way we choose.

we don't abuse all other sections of the crowd for not supporting the team week in week out in the way we deem best

YS are amongst the most passionate heart supporters around. Anyone who accuses us of not caring about the team is a delusional fuck face.

[Murfy1]

[Caddy]

We are dying as a club, inexorably and slowly.

I wish people would stop saying this. We're going through a trough, the situation is not nearly as dire as it was for NQF or GCU.

The only thing we are at risk of is sustained mediocrity. The board will surely see sense before things get too bad.

[hedaik]

 

Hes one guy that shows a lot of genuine passion for the club. Was reacting like a supporter who had put their house on the Heart to win with every near miss in the first half yesterday

[n i k o]

That's exactly the reason I joined heart, not because I thought we would win the title but because of our style of play. Some people have cracks about jvs on here but he took youngsters and made them into internationally competitive players who have gone onto better things. Finishing finals in his last season with a team that had a budget smaller than nearly every other team was an acheivement in itself. Bring back jvs.

[Dylan]

 

 

Hes one guy that shows a lot of genuine passion for the club. Was reacting like a supporter who had put their house on the Heart to win with every near miss in the first half yesterday

 

 

 

Get in the water foxy you weak cunt haha

[Nate]

 

We are dying as a club, inexorably and slowly.

I wish people would stop saying this. We're going through a trough, the situation is not nearly as dire as it was for NQF or GCU.

The only thing we are at risk of is sustained mediocrity. The board will surely see sense before things get too bad.

 

I agree, North Queensland's and Gold Coast United's circumstances were predominantly off-field. Financially we're going okay from all accounts, our membership numbers are good considering the lack of club success and our attendances whilst not great can only improve with results. I think our core diehard base has noticeably grown this season too, just an observation.

 

And of course, the fact we're one half of the derby gives us an advantage as well as it's a boost for the FFA and A-League.

 

Lastly... TV rights deal. The FFA are on record for stating that it will do all it can to ensure that the current 10 clubs are stable and self-sufficient before it introduces any more new teams into the league so it'd take something extremely dramatic off the field for us to fold in the near future.

[Braveheart]

Not all the fans agree with you, so don't pretend the YS represents MH supporters as a whole. Also, the letter idea was pretty stupid, but there are other means to get a message across - but that's NOT the point!! The board do know how a lot of supporters feel. Does anyone here think that isn't the case? Does anyone think that the board are oblivious to all of this???

 

Another point I want to make about silent protest is that the message was NOT clear. What were you protesting? The club? the Board? The coach? A combination? "We won't stand for mediocrity" - well righteo, good to know! It was not effective and it certainly didn't help the team on the park. 

Edited December 2, 2013 by Braveheart

[Defibrillator]

You don't have to take it literally but can I ask this:

Do you foresee membership rising at the current rate if current circumstances continue?

Do you see us gaining the respect of all other A league and local clubs if current circumstances continue?

Do you see us attracting future stars and marquee players if we become known as a joke?

Do you get a warm inner glow when you go and watch the club at present, or do you go with trepidation and the knowledge that you're more than likely to leave in a foul mood?

Do you see us gaining more input from the Board financially on the back of a successful club, or do you see, as many people acknowledge on this forum, no one will tip in more money due to the uncertainty of return??

Do you see us becoming the best and biggest club in Australia on our current trajectory?

Do you know a fellow member whose interest is waning or dropped this last 18 months?

Have you had someone laugh at you this year when you ask them to come along to a Heart game with you?

Do you BELIEVE??

It wasn't always like this. Balancing the books is only one part of the equation.

[Tony999]

I work with professionals but they say Melbourne Heart are ordinary. Guess they are just being nice without being laughed at.

[Peter]

I work with professionals but they say Melbourne Heart are ordinary. Guess they are just being nice without being laughed at.

Well, next time you are making their coffee, thank them for their courtesy.

I think Defibrillator, you are spot on.

[Nate]

You don't have to take it literally but can I ask this:

Do you foresee membership rising at the current rate if current circumstances continue?

Do you see us gaining the respect of all other A league and local clubs if current circumstances continue?

Do you see us attracting future stars and marquee players if we become known as a joke?

Do you get a warm inner glow when you go and watch the club at present, or do you go with trepidation and the knowledge that you're more than likely to leave in a foul mood?

Do you see us gaining more input from the Board financially on the back of a successful club, or do you see, as many people acknowledge on this forum, no one will tip in more money due to the uncertainty of return??

Do you see us becoming the best and biggest club in Australia on our current trajectory?

Do you know a fellow member whose interest is waning or dropped this last 18 months?

Have you had someone laugh at you this year when you ask them to come along to a Heart game with you?

Do you BELIEVE??

It wasn't always like this. Balancing the books is only one part of the equation.

I agree entirely with you, I truly do.

 

We're going through the most difficult phase in our club's history but there's too many people involved with the club who care about what's going on for things not to improve - members, supporters, coaching staff, management, board (questionable but still). 

 

The result from the Adelaide game was crap, we should have been expecting a win and nothing else and to concede 3 goals at home was very poor. But that 20 minute period in the second half was the best football I've seen us play in god knows how long and despite the 3-3 result, it was the first time this season that I came out of a game actually feeling optimistic about the future.

 

The next month will be telling but we have to keep supporting, the club will die only when we stop.

[n i k o]

Nate to be as fair as I can be to your comment, the time has past where we can say things like "the next month will be telling." I think the last 5 weeks have been telling enough. We are arriving at the point of no return soon. Weeks back the team could claim luck was against them, that time has past. And with each bad performance the belief that things can turn around and the players faith in each other and especially in JA slowly diminishes. And unfortunately the match against wsw is like life and death for the club, players and JA. No point even looking past that game. I agree with you regarding the support though.

[Torn Asunder]

I also was under the impression based on information garnered that JA was pretty much gone ... but alas, a stay of execution because he showed some heart and demonstrated some passion ... not by winning or by out-coaching an opponent, or by being the manager of the better team.

Yes it was nice to see some Heart goals at home ... but other than our second goal, which was still created only through some quick thinking by Murdocca, our scoring was not through good build up play or superior team tactis.

JA is in survival mode and by going to YS, he really did the cause of seeing him gone no good as it looked like he was well recived and that he has some level of support from Active. Also, given our supporters have been so startved of anything even closely resembling entertainment, the average punter was just happy to see some action...

The reality is the result just papers over the cracks.

A few years ago when we were playing attacking football and developing young kids, other clubs took notice and copied us and now these clubs do what we did, and I hate to say it, are doing it better.

I hope that those who write their letters really drive these points home ... i get the feeling that some of the Board do not understand the game of Football and what we the supporters of MH actually want (and we gave mixed messages on the weekend) - that is attacking competitive successful football, where we back ourselves to beat our opponent, whilst developing talented kids who will be future Socceroos. Player like Vrankovic, Walker, Mauk, ect must be given a chance. NOT a stifling one-dimensional uninventive stagnate game plan focused for the most part on creating only through the mistakes of our opponents, with the wrong players for the system, with players played out of position and the young players with potential banished during the time of their careers when they must be playing, and with predictable subs and an inability to adapt based on the circumstance of the game.

For those who listened to JAs aftermatch press interview, when he was asked about his job security and pressure, ultimately the discussion turned to ... suprise, suprise, his penalty against Uruguay and once again the topic was brushed over ...

I do love this club and it is gut wrenching to see us going backwards ... thank god that there is no relegation

#jaforstrikercoach (saves on the payout)

#foxeforyouthdefensivecoach

[belaguttman]

Letter written, I'll post it tomorrow and suggest that others do the same. I'm happy to provide a copy to anyone who sends me a private message request.

[kingofhearts]

Can't speak for everyone else, but it wouldn't worry me if didn't develop another youth player and get him sent overseas as long as we kept on getting good results. While i do believe that the youth should be given a go, i wouldn't be opposed to having a team running around with most blokes around there 30's as long as we are winning.

 

The problem i see with this league is that it is very hard to develop youth and continue to be a successful club. Whenever we have played well, or got on a good streak we keep losing players like aziz, curtis good, eli ext and basically our season has turned to shit because we haven't had an adequate replacement for them. Is it possible to have a successful team and to keep producing good youth players at the same time?

[Torn Asunder]

Can't speak for everyone else, but it wouldn't worry me if didn't develop another youth player and get him sent overseas as long as we kept on getting good results. While i do believe that the youth should be given a go, i wouldn't be opposed to having a team running around with most blokes around there 30's as long as we are winning.

The problem i see with this league is that it is very hard to develop youth and continue to be a successful club. Whenever we have played well, or got on a good streak we keep losing players like aziz, curtis good, eli ext and basically our season has turned to shit because we haven't had an adequate replacement for them. Is it possible to have a successful team and to keep producing good youth players at the same time?

As the league improves, with more kids coming through (with football becoming more and more popular for kids), and with a home grown Socceroos coach who will give A-League players a go, I expect that less and less young up-and-comers will head off oversees as soon as they have one good season. Also, not many youngsters have gone overseas from the A-league and had success ... even Rogic is struggling to get game time at Celtic ... so the attrition rate of younger players going overseas will most probably decline.

Im not saying just play youngsters or play them solely for the purpose of selling them ... but if they are on our list they should be good enough to be given a chance, not left to sit on the bench or not even make the squad and then watch as a medicore older player, who may not naturally play in their position, get a go over them.

I reckon what we will see is youngsters with A-League contracts getting chances overseas after they perform well for the National team

Edited December 2, 2013 by Torn Asunder

[hedaik]

 

 

 

Hes one guy that shows a lot of genuine passion for the club. Was reacting like a supporter who had put their house on the Heart to win with every near miss in the first half yesterday

 

 

 

Get in the water foxy you weak cunt haha

 

 

?????

[Nate]

 

 

 

 

Hes one guy that shows a lot of genuine passion for the club. Was reacting like a supporter who had put their house on the Heart to win with every near miss in the first half yesterday

 

 

 

Get in the water foxy you weak cunt haha

 

 

?????

 

When they're all doing a recovery session at the beach, you can just see Foxey staring into their souls.

[Tonyboozeadams]

The whole day pissed me off yesterday. The over excitement after the game covering up how crap we were and the heckles in the GA at yarraside.

First, we were shit !!! Adelaide aren't doing great and they ran rings around us. It was comical to watch in parts. Emotion can only get you so far, it was still just long ball shit and will get us no where.

Secondly, that guy yelling shame on you to yarraside in the first half, you might not agree with protesting the club, everyone has their own ways of doing things, but it's not their job to sing. They choose to, just like people like him choose to not join in. I'm not a YS (although I normally stand in active to the side and join in) and was sitting in the very back row of the stand, but YS really only take up one bay in the stadium. It was silent. There are plenty of other people sitting around. Before people start complaining that they aren;t chanting look at yourselves and ask what where you doing. Get involved !!

Thats how I feel. Fuck you for getting skirty about YS not singing. Why don't you come down into the active bay, stand and sing you old cunt

[Robinho]

From The Guardian 'What we learned from the A-League this weekend'

 

 

Fan culture takes another shift

Melbourne has always been a militant kind of town. Perhaps it is some sort of traditional flow-on from the Eureka Stockade era and a strong record of robust protests, or the 21st century equivalent of suburban anti-establishment; indolently hanging by the ticket machine on the tram with no intention of touching on or off that myki card. Either way it is hard to imagine many, if any, other A-League cites doing the silent protest for the first half as the Yarraside did in a slightly curious protest, which oscillated somewhere between petulant and admirably rebellious. Perhaps, though, the desired effect was achieved because Melbourne Heart were finally involved in a genuinely pulsating game for the first time this season. And the atmosphere – though the second lowest crowd of the season, behind only Central Coast Mariners on Friday – was electric as AAMI Park again proved itself to be the A-League’s most atmospheric venue.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Robinho

[Tonyboozeadams]

That myki joke is pretty funny

[Murfy1]

A-League tactics: Heart's failure in defence costing them dearly

 

Kate Cohen   3 December 2013

 

Where Melbourne Heart need to tighten up if they are to relieve the pressure on manager John Aloisi

 

Sunday’s exciting 3-3 draw between strugglers Melbourne Heart and Adelaide United had plenty of excitement and plenty of questionable defending. As has been a regular feature this season, defensive mistakes caused Heart problems as they went 2-0 down within 20 minutes. Worryingly, Steve Lustica’s third minute goal and Sergio Cirio’s 15th minute goal both came from phases of play which involved Adelaide’s goalkeeper Eugene Galekovic.

 

Adelaide United, under Josep Gombau, are unwavering in their attempts to play a possession-based game, which means they always look to play out from the back. In order to combat their attempts to do so, Heart’s defensive system involved Massimo Murdocca stepping out from midfield to pick up Isaías (Heart’s ‘number 6’ in the graphic), meaning Heart effectively had two lines of three in front of the back four.

Melbourne Heart’s two lines of three to combat Adelaide’s playing out. If and when Adelaide played through the first line of defence, Murdocca had the unenviable task of racing back into the midfield line. Photograph: Guardian

 

Against most teams, the first line of three would be enough to deter the opposition goalkeeper from passing short, and they would instead wave the centre-backs forward to go long. But Adelaide are not most teams and are determined to maintain possession, and their first goal was an example of that.

 

As the above graphic shows, Heart created a 3-v-3 situation near the box, but this meant they were left with a numerical disadvantage in midfield. Lustica’s goal came after Galekovic lofted a pass to halfway to the striker Jeronimo Neumann. Neumann bounced a pass first time to Marcelo Carrusca who was the free man in the middle of the pitch after Murdocca pushed forward (in an almost identical position to the ‘number 8’ represented in the graphic). Carrusca received the ball facing forward and played in the right winger Fabio Ferreira and Lustica opened the scoring seconds later.

 

Whilst the first goal was an example of Adelaide United exploiting Heart’s numerical disadvantage in midfield - through their constant attempts to play out - the second goal was as a result of little individual errors when executing a defensive plan.

 

Directly from a goal kick, Galekovic was able to play a short pass to Osama Malik all too easily. By the time Malik received, Mate Dugandzic, who was in the midfield line of three, raced out to close the ball. This of course meant Michael Zullo at left-back was free and Malik quickly played the ball that way. Just as with the first goal, Adelaide were able to have a player with time on the ball and facing forward. They duly punished the vast spaces left in midfield by Melbourne.

Individual lapses such as with Cirio’s goal were also evident in Heart’s previous game against Newcastle Jets.

 

Defending in a similar system when the opposition goalkeeper had the ball, with Murdocca moving forward to form a line of three, Heart looked to force Mark Birighitti long. In the 60th minute, there was another individual lapse in defence that allowed Newcastle to play out too easily.

An example of a defensive lapse from Melbourne Heart against Newcastle Jets in the 60th minute. Photograph: Guardian

 

Murdocca simply forgot to perform his defensive duty when the ball was with the goalkeeper. By the time he had realised, Birighitti had already been able to pass to a short option. On this occasion, by the time Ben Kantarovski (‘number 6’ in the graphic) had received possession, Iain Ramsay had taken it upon himself to charge out of his position to pressure the ball. Murdocca too moved forward to pressure the ball once he remembered his role. However, Kantarovski was able to play a simple pass to Scott Neville at right-back, where Ramsay should have been. Unlike with Adelaide’s second goal, those individual lapses did not result in conceding, but Neville was able to face forward and pass and Newcastle entered the final third with that spell of possession.

 

It was an interesting ploy from Melbourne to stop Adelaide playing out from the back, and it ultimately failed – with two goals coming from a phase of play involving the goalkeeper. Whereas Central Coast Mariners had success sitting in a compact medium block, Heart looked to commit numbers forward to press and were punished. Confidence is of course an issue, and Heart’s problems with composure in the final third can perhaps be put down to that. But confidence is not essential to players consistently performing the basic defensive duties set out to them.

 

Melbourne Heart have been unable to replicate their almost flawless defensive approach from Round 1. Their defensive system may have changed since then, but in order to ease the growing pressure on John Aloisi, the manager will need an error-free performance from his defence when they travel to Parramatta Stadium for their next game against the Western Sydney Wanderers. 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/dec/03/a-league-tactics-hearts-failure-in-defence-costing-them-dearly

Edited December 3, 2013 by Murfy1

[belaguttman]

After a season and 8 games our players still don't seem to be coached to press as a team, we all know why

[jw1739]

Sitting where I do in the stadium I see plenty of what is described above right in front of me. Often 2-3 Heart players moving towards the opposition player with the ball, meaning two of their players are unmarked and able to receive. Happens so often. Meaning we are running around like chooks trying to get the ball, to no effect. I'd say that this, together with the irritating habit of our defensive line falling back to in and just in front of our 18-yard line, with the inevitability of a foul resulting in a dangerous free-kick or indeed a penalty, are two of the errors we make time and time again in every game we play.

 

Redders was also painfully at fault for the second Adelaide goal. His first save was from a relatively innocuous shot, but he palmed it away instead of holding it and we presented them with an open goal.

[belaguttman]

We seem to team press for a few minutes, it works well and then it disintegrates into a shambles of uncoordinated individual actions for the rest of the game so that our midfield is carved open like a knife through hot butter. Aloisi needs to spend some time watching Dortmund play

[wombegongal]

We seem to team press for a few minutes, it works well and then it disintegrates into a shambles of uncoordinated individual actions for the rest of the game so that our midfield is carved open like a knife through hot butter. Aloisi needs to spend some time watching Dortmund play

 

 

Couldn't agree more. It all comes back to the coach issuing instructions and roles at training and then the players making it happen on match day. I don't think John has the requisite skill.

[ThePolo]

Was this aloisi's half time speech ?

 

[tigerou812]

We seem to team press for a few minutes, it works well and then it disintegrates into a shambles of uncoordinated individual actions for the rest of the game so that our midfield is carved open like a knife through hot butter. Aloisi needs to spend some time watching Dortmund play

This has happened from day one of JA's coaching of Heart. Nothing has change. We are meant to "Believe" that he can change things or turn it around now after all this time. Why hasn't he done it earlier? This is not a new problem. It reminds me of politicians who after being in charge for years and not fixing a problem the come the election saying they have the solution. Why didn't you fix it earlier. Sorry JA but it's seems that your a one trick pony.

Edited December 3, 2013 by tigerou812