Warren Joyce. As predicted by Serb Hair Dresser.. Goneski

[rass]

7 hours ago, Inchcolm said:

@rass In your opinion we may be probably playing better football but our results are worse without him.

With Bruno.................Played 4: won 2: draw 1: lost 1:

Without Bruno............Played 6: won 3: draw 1: lost 2:

Bruno in…................... win 50% draw 25% lost 25%

Bruno out................... win 50% draw 17% lost 33%

However people interrupt and present stats to suit there argument.

Bruno in goals per game 1.25

Bruno out goals per game 1.33 

So ladies and gents choose which stat suits your argument. We are loosing more games without him or we are scoring more goals per game without him.

Mate, note my use of the word 'probably' in my statement.

My opinion of playing better is based on the fact we are on a run now (present) of being unbeaten in 3 games. IF results go to current form, then that run will extend to 6 games unbeaten, with the probability of that being 5W/1D.

That to me, would be sufficient proof we are playing better football, instead of using a 4 game sample to prove a point.

Of course, if we lose any of the next three games, then I'll happily re-assess... But at the moment, I'm pretty comfortable with my opinion thank you.

 

[jw1739]

7 hours ago, Inchcolm said:

@rass In your opinion we may be probably playing better football but our results are worse without him.

With Bruno.................Played 4: won 2: draw 1: lost 1:

Without Bruno............Played 6: won 3: draw 1: lost 2:

Bruno in…................... win 50% draw 25% lost 25%

Bruno out................... win 50% draw 17% lost 33%

However people interrupt and present stats to suit there argument.

Bruno in goals per game 1.25

Bruno out goals per game 1.33 

So ladies and gents choose which stat suits your argument. We are loosing more games without him or we are scoring more goals per game without him.

IMO what you'd have to say is that one particular player is having no influence on our results (limited sample size of course). In a month's time perhaps you'd like to do the same thing for Victory with and without Honda.

I'm not sure that Bruno being selected or not selected is the main point though. IMO it's the way the club has handled the affair.

[Imtellingyou]

There's a fact which obstructs uniform ripple effect.  Players are paid . Members pay for the game. It's not smart to become unemployed. 

[Shahanga]

3 hours ago, jw1739 said:

I'm not sure that Bruno being selected or not selected is the main point though. IMO it's the way the club has handled the affair.

This is my view. 

[Shahanga]

This flat out every day caper.

i can assure everyone that athletes don’t do this. One of twice a week at most they go flat out. 

Why? Because if they train flat out every day they’ll burn out and not deliver in competition (if they don’t breakdown). 

Be interesting how we finish the season - I’m expecting us to finish poorly again, mainly due to this.

[Dylan]

You can’t win anything when you change half the squad every 6 months.

I think the second half against Newcastle shows what happens once Joyce gets his hands on the team. They were timid, boring and if it weren’t for the referee we probably would have lost

[Jovan]

2 hours ago, Dylan said:

You can’t win anything when you change half the squad every 6 months.

I think the second half against Newcastle shows what happens once Joyce gets his hands on the team. They were timid, boring and if it weren’t for the referee we probably would have lost

Totally agree. 

[Dylan]

I actually thought Scott Miller's commentary was good last night. Kept saying yeah great side to side, but where is the forward pass?

[jw1739]

IMO Joyce's post-match presser was perhaps the most honest that I've heard from him. He basically said that we played poorly in the second half, making poor decisions with the ball, and that the boys were tired - "flat" was the word he used.

[Jovan]

3 hours ago, Dylan said:

I actually thought Scott Miller's commentary was good last night. Kept saying yeah great side to side, but where is the forward pass?

Man he did my head in, mainly because we where so shit and what he was saying was pretty much bang on but it was from a Newcastle perspective.

[playmaker]

On 03/01/2019 at 7:00 PM, rass said:

Please, please tell me what fkn ripple effect on the players?

 

1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

 He basically said that we played poorly in the second half, making poor decisions with the ball, and that the boys were tired - "flat" was the word he used.

The Bruno and MOH ripple effect.

 

 

On 03/01/2019 at 7:00 PM, rass said:

They're probably playing their best football all season.

Don't know what you are taking but it mustn't be good for you.

Edited January 7, 2019 by playmaker

[n i k o]

3 minutes ago, playmaker said:

 

The Bruno and MOH ripple effect.

 

 

Don't know what you are taking but it mustn't be good for you.

@rass can correct me if I'm wrong but by ripple you mean these happenings have caused problems in other areas of the team, management, play, results etc.? If that's the case rass point was despite Bruno and MOH missing our results have been getting better. So there has been no ripple effect from that perspective. Unless you mean the effect their absence has had on supporters etc....

[rass]

3 hours ago, n i k o said:

@rass can correct me if I'm wrong but by ripple you mean these happenings have caused problems in other areas of the team, management, play, results etc.? If that's the case rass point was despite Bruno and MOH missing our results have been getting better. So there has been no ripple effect from that perspective. Unless you mean the effect their absence has had on supporters etc....

Yes, spot on mate.

[rass]

3 hours ago, playmaker said:

 

The Bruno and MOH ripple effect.

 

 

Don't know what you are taking but it mustn't be good for you.

Lol Ahum. Coming from you, I'll take that as a justification I'm on the right track.

At least you concede I must be taking something when I post something - whereas your comments just come from naturally having no clue.

So again mate, please, please show me where the ripple effect is on the players, as per my original question.... And don't try and use Bruno as an excuse for workload.... 

Sure, our second half was horseshit yesterday but we still won - something we don't usually equate with our history.

 

[playmaker]

1 hour ago, rass said:

Lol Ahum. Coming from you, I'll take that as a justification I'm on the right track.

At least you concede I must be taking something when I post something - whereas your comments just come from naturally having no clue.

So again mate, please, please show me where the ripple effect is on the players, as per my original question.... And don't try and use Bruno as an excuse for workload.... 

Sure, our second half was horseshit yesterday but we still won - something we don't usually equate with our history.

 

We are playing the crappiest football I have seen in a long long time except for our defence and have been lucky that opponents have made monumental stuff ups which has allowed us to score.

I don't know if you have ever played a team sport but when crap like this happens (Joyce behaving like a knob) to match winning players, it has a massive effect on the whole team's morale including the supporters.

Everyone can feel it and see it, for example players talking about it in their interviews, the way they hang their head when they have no target up front, the lack of decision in their play. Can you honestly say that Bruno and MOH(if true) situation have no effect on morale and game play. This is the ripple I am talking about.

Then the way Joyce conducts himself about Bruno and the more senior players he has let go, the way they block Bruno from the screen at the ground, the way the supporters are so disenfranchised with the club.

The question that needs to be asked is what it would be like if Bruno, MOH, Budinski, Brandan and Kilkenny were all playing together.

Well that's the ripple effect.

And because of Wazza we are not where we should to be with lost opportunities everywhere.

To suggest that we are playing our best football all season is wrong as indicated at the ground last night where supporters were very disappointed about our performance and we're saying we actually deserved to lose.

The worst morale I have experienced.

Our home games are a horrible place to be atm.

 

[n i k o]

31 minutes ago, playmaker said:

We are playing the crappiest football I have seen in a long long time except for our defence and have been lucky that opponents have made monumental stuff ups which has allowed us to score.

I don't know if you have ever played a team sport but when crap like this happens (Joyce behaving like a knob) to match winning players, it has a massive effect on the whole team's morale including the supporters.

Everyone can feel it and see it, for example players talking about it in their interviews, the way they hang their head when they have no target up front, the lack of decision in their play. Can you honestly say that Bruno and MOH(if true) situation have no effect on morale and game play. This is the ripple I am talking about.

Then the way Joyce conducts himself about Bruno and the more senior players he has let go, the way they block Bruno from the screen at the ground, the way the supporters are so disenfranchised with the club.

The question that needs to be asked is what it would be like if Bruno, MOH, Budinski, Brandan and Kilkenny were all playing together.

Well that's the ripple effect.

And because of Wazza we are not where we should to be with lost opportunities everywhere.

To suggest that we are playing our best football all season is wrong as indicated at the ground last night where supporters were very disappointed about our performance and we're saying we actually deserved to lose.

The worst morale I have experienced.

Our home games are a horrible place to be atm.

 

@rass

Ok @playmaker it seems that you are focusing on how we're playing so I'll just assume that you're highlighting our playing 'style' as opposed to results. From a results perspective we have been getting the job done. There is no ripple effect with results because if there were we wouldn't be winning games like we have been.

So if you're talking about the effect of losing each of those players you've mentioned on our playing style then yeah there probably is some sort of a ripple effect. Maybe we'd be playing with more attacking intent and scoring more goals. I agree that was diabolical to watch yesterday. And it can't be a good thing to constantly be losing players in this manner. It's actually quite incredible that the team has been able to show such mental strength and determination over the course of this season thus far. 

Edited January 7, 2019 by n i k o

[jw1739]

Another possibility that concerns me is to what extent the losses of these senior players affects our chances of signing others, and at what cost? Players and agents have their networks, and word quickly gets around.

[rass]

30 minutes ago, playmaker said:

We are playing the crappiest football I have seen in a long long time except for our defence and have been lucky that opponents have made monumental stuff ups which has allowed us to score.

I don't know if you have ever played a team sport but when crap like this happens (Joyce behaving like a knob) to match winning players, it has a massive effect on the whole team's morale including the supporters.

Everyone can feel it and see it, for example players talking about it in their interviews, the way they hang their head when they have no target up front, the lack of decision in their play. Can you honestly say that Bruno and MOH(if true) situation have no effect on morale and game play. This is the ripple I am talking about.

Then the way Joyce conducts himself about Bruno and the more senior players he has let go, the way they block Bruno from the screen at the ground, the way the supporters are so disenfranchised with the club.

The question that needs to be asked is what it would be like if Bruno, MOH, Budinski, Brandan and Kilkenny were all playing together.

Well that's the ripple effect.

And because of Wazza we are not where we should to be with lost opportunities everywhere.

To suggest that we are playing our best football all season is wrong as indicated at the ground last night where supporters were very disappointed about our performance and we're saying we actually deserved to lose.

The worst morale I have experienced.

Our home games are a horrible place to be atm.

 

Oh what a load of shit man, seriously we deserved to lose?

There are two teams in a match mate - yeah I learnt that in all the team sports I've played and still do play in my life by the way. Just because we were clueless up front does not automatically mean the other team deserved to win. For all our fucking around in the forward half, I only saw that the Jets scored one goal from the match and were themselves even worse up front. 

Actually hang on, just let me check the scores again. Yes that's correct, we won 2-1. Just like you all said how our shit team was going to get pumped by the greatest victory side of all time - yeah that didn't happen either.

So we're 10 out of a possible 12 points in our last 3 games, which include 7 against WSW and AU away and victory at AAMI. Fuck the players must be demoralised hey...

You crap on about ripple effect, but a team that is dispirited as you allude to would not be getting the results we are at the moment and celebrate goals together as we do. But hey, you're the team sports expert here and obviously know exactly what is happening in our changeroom, so forgive my obvious ignorance for stating facts instead of the opinionated, sheep following drivel you dish out week in, week out.

Sad thing is I agree about Joyce's management style; reminds me exactly of an old work manager I had who I still believe to this day is the most evil person i have ever met. Surrounds themselves with juniors willing to do anything to keep a job, whilst ostrasizing the senior workers who actually have experience and a voice, spinning shit about them in public because they disagree, to the point the seniors fuck off - it's so similar it's fukn scary to me. But you can't deny the results are coming for City and that in the end of the day, is what the overlords are usually only worried about. Difference is I am not an employee of City, so Joyce's behaviour does not affect me directly.

But to crap on about the shit you do about the team, you're using an argument that is blinkered by an opinion that is just wrong.

Need a beer after all that me thinks....

[rass]

@playmaker by the way, my apologies if I have become overly aggressive and rude. This argument is just really starting to do my head in.

[Imtellingyou]

It's just a waste of , memberships, money spending on unused visa/marquee players. 

[playmaker]

46 minutes ago, rass said:

@playmaker by the way, my apologies if I have become overly aggressive and rude. This argument is just really starting to do my head in.

One thing that does keep us sane is having these differences of opinion and illustrating to one another that we give a shit about our club.

No problem about your response.

I hope I am wrong and you are right and we go onto great things this season but atm I just can't see it.

1 hour ago, rass said:

Oh what a load of shit man, seriously we deserved to lose?

Just telling what I heard from many supporters sitting around me and while walking out of the stadium.

 

 

[JMSTEP123]

1 hour ago, playmaker said:

One thing that does keep us sane is having these differences of opinion and illustrating to one another that we give a shit about our club.

No problem about your response.

I hope I am wrong and you are right and we go onto great things this season but atm I just can't see it.

Just telling what I heard from many supporters sitting around me and while walking out of the stadium.

 

 

We were spoiled with entertaining football under JVS. Victory attracted fans who were dominant and have history, City attracted fans who were not caught up in winning so much as providing entertaining football. That was the drawcard. Though we were spoilt, we lost. A lot. When it mattered. Not just once. 

With the change of culture starting to emerge, people (myself included) have started asking the question. Do I mind winning if I am not entertained? Why not jump ship to Victory (win and be entertained), hold out for Western Melbourne or lose interest all together in A League and City. Unfortunately, many are not happy with the current state the club is in. I hope by seasons end this was the awkward puberty stage the club just had to go through. I am sure it is all systemic and built into their strategic plan. We are seeing evidence of action - to quote Bort, "Trust the Process". Props to Joyce for bringing about defensive cultural change which was a big reason for his signing. I also like the youth element. I want to see young australians playing at their peak in and for Australia. It is an honour to have such a great youth set up. I am sure it will bring about many successes over our collective lifetimes. I do not like many things Joyce has done, but some things are necessary and some people are best doing the ugly stuff without compromise or recognition. 

The cultural change is starting to divide the City community - forging a new identity. One which, I hope in future, can find it in them to win and entertain and attract more people to the club and team.

Ps. Props for the gentleman response. Too many warriors on the internet - you sir are a hero.

[n i k o]

8 hours ago, JMSTEP123 said:

We were spoiled with entertaining football under JVS. Victory attracted fans who were dominant and have history, City attracted fans who were not caught up in winning so much as providing entertaining football. That was the drawcard. Though we were spoilt, we lost. A lot. When it mattered. Not just once. 

With the change of culture starting to emerge, people (myself included) have started asking the question. Do I mind winning if I am not entertained? Why not jump ship to Victory (win and be entertained), hold out for Western Melbourne or lose interest all together in A League and City. Unfortunately, many are not happy with the current state the club is in. I hope by seasons end this was the awkward puberty stage the club just had to go through. I am sure it is all systemic and built into their strategic plan. We are seeing evidence of action - to quote Bort, "Trust the Process". Props to Joyce for bringing about defensive cultural change which was a big reason for his signing. I also like the youth element. I want to see young australians playing at their peak in and for Australia. It is an honour to have such a great youth set up. I am sure it will bring about many successes over our collective lifetimes. I do not like many things Joyce has done, but some things are necessary and some people are best doing the ugly stuff without compromise or recognition. 

The cultural change is starting to divide the City community - forging a new identity. One which, I hope in future, can find it in them to win and entertain and attract more people to the club and team.

Ps. Props for the gentleman response. Too many warriors on the internet - you sir are a hero.

Really? Who? 

[JMSTEP123]

5 hours ago, n i k o said:

Really? Who? 

Unfortunately.... the indifferent families and youth of today I work with. Going off a select demographic. Also seen the sentiment spewed online, though that is wholly a different matter.

[Dylan]

So Wazza is on the last 6 months of his contract. Now whilst all media reports point to the club backing Joyce over player movements,  I dont think he has 100% backing, otherwise they would have extended his contract already. So I still think that come the end of the season, if we get no ACL no GF spot, I would be very surprised if that didnt mean lights out for Joyce.

[bt50]

8 minutes ago, Dylan said:

So Wazza is on the last 6 months of his contract. Now whilst all media reports point to the club backing Joyce over player movements,  I dont think he has 100% backing, otherwise they would have extended his contract already. So I still think that come the end of the season, if we get no ACL no GF spot, I would be very surprised if that didnt mean lights out for Joyce.

Yep, i dont think they'll reappoint him with out an ACL qualification, esp given the more negative style of play. And that's fair enough too imo.

[jw1739]

6 minutes ago, Dylan said:

So Wazza is on the last 6 months of his contract. Now whilst all media reports point to the club backing Joyce over player movements,  I dont think he has 100% backing, otherwise they would have extended his contract already. So I still think that come the end of the season, if we get no ACL no GF spot, I would be very surprised if that didnt mean lights out for Joyce.

I'm not so sure. Another manager would mean another upheaval. And one thing this club needs is a period of stability. Giving three and a half seasons to Baccus seems to indicate to me that Joyce may be staying.

[bt50]

22 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

I'm not so sure. Another manager would mean another upheaval. And one thing this club needs is a period of stability. Giving three and a half seasons to Baccus seems to indicate to me that Joyce may be staying.

It's a pretty good point.
I do however think he might be reasonably rated internally too (outside of Joyce) though, he might well be leading our B&F at this point of the season.

[n i k o]

39 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

I'm not so sure. Another manager would mean another upheaval. And one thing this club needs is a period of stability. Giving three and a half seasons to Baccus seems to indicate to me that Joyce may be staying.

I don't think the length of Baccus contract has anything to do with Joyce. It's no secret the club likes to put players on longer contracts for a number of reasons. 

[Chris p]

1 hour ago, Dylan said:

So Wazza is on the last 6 months of his contract. Now whilst all media reports point to the club backing Joyce over player movements,  I dont think he has 100% backing, otherwise they would have extended his contract already. So I still think that come the end of the season, if we get no ACL no GF spot, I would be very surprised if that didnt mean lights out for Joyce.

If that's the case how do we justify him signing new players ? 

[jw1739]

34 minutes ago, n i k o said:

I don't think the length of Baccus contract has anything to do with Joyce. It's no secret the club likes to put players on longer contracts for a number of reasons. 

First I've heard of it. Those being?

[rass]

9 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

First I've heard of it. Those being?

Paartalu comes to mind. Didn't he get 5 years?

[bt50]

44 minutes ago, n i k o said:

I don't think the length of Baccus contract has anything to do with Joyce. It's no secret the club likes to put players on longer contracts for a number of reasons. 

We have def signed guys to longer contracts than other clubs in the league that's for sure. Paartalu and Jamo, evidence of this, plus the boys signed to Manchester deals.
I'd hazard a guess that the club sees the cap either being scrapped or significantly relaxed in the coming seasons too and are making a calculated gamble. 

[Inchcolm]

I believe the renewal of Joyce's contract comes down to him achieving his Key Performance Indicators (KPI)

Reading forums, news paper articles and watching the team I am of the opinion they may be.

1. Qualification for the ACL

2. Develop young  Australian players for the City Group and sell them to Manchester City.

3 Win some silver ware during his contract.

I do not believe there will be anything in his KPI about.

a. Play entertaining football

b. Increase the club support

c. Keeping players happy and ensure we do lose key players.

I may be way of the mark but how far down the line is he to achieving his KPI which would gain him another contract?

 

[jw1739]

The way the A-League is you may not know whether you have made nos. 1 or 3 until the very last day of the season - as evidenced by last season. 

As for 2, whilst several of the youngsters are OK in the A-League, I haven't seen anything in the current crop anywhere near Daniel Arzani. And that includes Ramy Najjarine.

[rayv36]

47 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

The way the A-League is you may not know whether you have made nos. 1 or 3 until the very last day of the season - as evidenced by last season. 

As for 2, whilst several of the youngsters are OK in the A-League, I haven't seen anything in the current crop anywhere near Daniel Arzani. And that includes Ramy Najjarine.

The next wiz kid will be Singh from the Nix

[HeartOfCity]

15 minutes ago, rayv36 said:

The next wiz kid will be Singh from the Nix

At least he might be a visa player that performs

[bt50]

https://twitter.com/LeighRMatthews/status/1082589179689594880

Relevant imo.

[Missing_Moy]

3 hours ago, bt50 said:

https://twitter.com/LeighRMatthews/status/1082589179689594880

Relevant imo.

Makes a lot of sense 

[playmaker]

10 hours ago, bt50 said:

https://twitter.com/LeighRMatthews/status/1082589179689594880

Relevant imo.

From someone who was basically given an open cheque book to have a ridiculous advantage over every other team in the league which led to Brisbane winning 3 premierships.

Good one Leigh.