Warren Joyce. As predicted by Serb Hair Dresser.. Goneski

[HeartOfCity]

I miss JVS! I dont miss the lack of defensive capabilities but i do miss the attack and the fact i used to look forward to going to home games each time. Its getting harder to justify me traveling as far as i do to go to games. Dont get me wrong i do like the priority of culture over everything but at some stage he's gotta show he's a good manager. It absolutely baffles me the lack of subs made, if theres hungry kids on the bench put them on, JVS would and the willingness to park the bus. 😠

I used to say about JVS that all I wanted was a win and i didnt care about the way we played but now i'm thinking otherwise, make it entertaining for ffs. At this stage i really like the way Paul Okon goes about his business, if he's not on City's radar then shame on them.

Rant over

[haz]

Could have posted in the Valkanis thread, but yea

Quote

EXCLUSIVE: WHY VALKANIS LEFT MELBOURNE CITY

By Clement Tito Dec 28 2017 1:01AM

Former Melbourne City head and assistant coach Michael Valkanis has spoken out for the first time since leaving the club and has backed his football philosophy in embarking on a new journey. Valkanis was assistant to John van’t Schip last season, however was promoted to the head coaching role in January after the Dutchman returned home to spend time with his sick father who later passed away. City went onto finish fourth in the league and bowed out 2-0 in the Elimination Final to Perth Glory. In June, City appointed Warren Joyce as Valkanis reassumed his assistant role, but eventually left in November along with Joe Montemurro who became head coach of Arsenal Women. Valkanis admitted Joyce had differences in his philosophy and clarified it was a mutual termination after there were reports he was asked to leave by the club. “We thought it was best for both that we part ways,” Valkanis told FourFourTwo. "One, to let Warren work the way he wants to and two, although we worked hard, to be quite honest in the last six months I wasn’t really happy with the football.

“A second statement came out from the club to clarify how we ended, I was disappointed with what was insinuated when Warren addressed the media that week. I can’t control what’s communicated and what he says. “I came in from Adelaide United to work with JvS (van’t Schip) to implement a style and philosophy the City Football Group (CFG) believe in.“I really enjoyed it, the guys with me worked hard – Pep (Montemurro) and Joe Palatsides. They’re all really good coaches and Pep has proved it by going to Arsenal Women.” Valkanis said it was all a long-term project and sometimes people lacked patience in the process, but he aimed to fix the lack of depth in defence. He used Michael Jakobsen’s injury last season as an example, where Osama Malik, Manny Muscat and Ruon Tongyik played as centre-backs. “We forget City are one of the only clubs, if not the only club in Australia that has a defined playing philosophy that comes from up top,” he said. “When there’s a clear-cut philosophy, game model and you train towards it, you’ll win more than you lose. When you do lose, you’re able to reference back, fix things and it’s not impromptu. “Long-term, you keep fixing the squad, no different for what we did in Adelaide where it took us three years to win a championship. When you look at the squad, the football we played and the stats, the stats don’t lie in terms of our attacking football.

“It showed we implemented and played a style. People identified us with that style, the greatest thing that happened last season is we brought the first trophy to the club playing that style which is very important. “There was a difference in methodology this season. I don't believe in isolated training or methods which contradict a playing style. Methodology is very important for implementing a style. "The physical, mental, tactical and technical are all intertwined, not separate. You train to the way you want your team to play. “I believe in building and playing out from the back, dominating, keeping the ball and creating as many opportunities to score to win games. I don’t think there was a game last season we didn’t dominate, we dominated every game. “We won a lot of games and lost some games, but we lost them playing the way we worked to play. Bringing in four or five players to balance up the squad and to fix those deficiencies we had, we knew we’d make a step in this current season.”

In March former Socceroos coach Ange Postecoglou said his initiative would have been praised if he wasn’t Australian and Valkanis said it resonated with him. “I think sometimes it’s this ‘who are you?’ mentality, ‘he’s just Michael who played for South Melbourne, so what’s he supposed to know about the game?’,” Valkanis said. “I don’t have 100 Socceroo caps to make myself, in quotation marks, more knowledgeable. People want the big name, they connect to a big name and that no name gets a bit lost. All you need is someone to believe in them to give an opportunity. ”Valkanis added there were no hard feelings towards City and wished them all the best this season. He said he felt relieved after leaving the club and was taking a break while weighing up his options. The former Reds captain would even consider a move overseas after he played in Greece for seven years. “There comes a time where you realise, these are my beliefs and this is the way I want to work,” he said. “If you’re not going to be happy because you’re doing it a different way, then there’s no point doing it if it’s not 100 per cent. I won’t resort to any other way of playing other than attacking football because I’ve seen success in my time with that style. “Maybe it’s time to try a different environment. You live once and me and my family aren’t afraid of moving. Whether it’s a new culture or a culture I know, it’ll be good to give myself another challenge.”

https://www.fourfourtwo.com.au/news/exclusive-why-valkanis-left-melbourne-city-480369

 

[Jovan]

Bit rich he is comparing himself with Ange. But good luck to him. 

Joyce's appointment still confuses me as he not really a CFG type manager. 

[jw1739]

2 hours ago, Jovan said:

Bit rich he is comparing himself with Ange. But good luck to him. 

Joyce's appointment still confuses me as he not really a CFG type manager. 

Although I'm pretty sure that Joyce will see out his two-year contract with us, or the lion's share of it anyway, IMO January 2018 will decide whether he has any real future as a manager or not.

[Shahanga]

I’m still struggling to understand why CFG hired this guy who’s philosophies seem to be anti everything they’ve said that stand for.

[jw1739]

1 minute ago, Shahanga said:

I’m still struggling to understand why CFG hired this guy who’s philosophies seem to be anti everything they’ve said that stand for.

I haven't heard the term "beautiful football" from anyone at Melchester City since the "City Voice" surveys were stopped. Does anyone believe in it anymore? Valkanis apparently did. Joyce obviously does not.

[Young Polak]

Joyce is only there to pick out talented kids and make them just as profitable as Mooy has been to CFG, to people still think they give a shit about the club's season performance?  

[jw1739]

19 minutes ago, Young Polak said:

Joyce is only there to pick out talented kids and make them just as profitable as Mooy has been to CFG, to people still think they give a shit about the club's season performance?  

Well, if he is, he's doing a damned good job with players such as Arzani and Genreau isn't he?

[Young Polak]

2 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Well, if he is, he's doing a damned good job with players such as Arzani and Genreau isn't he?

He'll eventually ship off Atkinson to manchester's academy and use it as his shield to keep his job 

[playmaker]

What a load of crap!

JVS had 6 seasons of opportunity to build a squad to succeed under his reign and he managed nothing in the season proper, nothing.

Last year was a joke and Valkanis is delusional if he thinks any different just because we dominated possession. And if he wishes us well he shouldn't be coming out and talking about this when the team, who is in a dip,  is still in this process of changes away from the inequities of the coaching processes which he was part of, AND, when he had the best list in the A-league.

The 'buddy club' culture has gone and the team is moving towards a 'team centred merit based culture', which in the long term is where success will come. This process takes time.

All this article says to me is that people are under estimating the massive task Wazza has.

I wish Valkanis all the best, now just fk off and shut up.

Edited December 28, 2017 by playmaker

[Jovan]

4 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Although I'm pretty sure that Joyce will see out his two-year contract with us, or the lion's share of it anyway, IMO January 2018 will decide whether he has any real future as a manager or not.

Agree. He won't be sacked. 

I'm not really sure what's going to change in a few games. I've seen enough to see that he won't win us squat. Even with Bruno back and at his best.

He has made us harder to beat, but at a cost of being harder to watch. Another big judgment error from CFG with their coaching appointment. 

I know we are 3rd and are still in the hunt but realistically this is the best we are going to be and any talk of silverware is just fantasy. 

[Dylan]

1 minute ago, Jovan said:

Agree. He won't be sacked. 

I'm not really sure what's going to change in a few games. I've seen enough to see that he won't win us squat. Even with Bruno back and at his best.

He has made us harder to beat, but at a cost of being harder to watch. Another big judgment error from CFG with their coaching appointment. 

I know we are 3rd and are still in the hunt but realistically this is the best we are going to be and any talk of silverware is just fantasy. 

All about ACL for him IMO

[jw1739]

19 minutes ago, Jovan said:

Agree. He won't be sacked. 

I'm not really sure what's going to change in a few games. I've seen enough to see that he won't win us squat. Even with Bruno back and at his best.

He has made us harder to beat, but at a cost of being harder to watch. Another big judgment error from CFG with their coaching appointment. 

I know we are 3rd and are still in the hunt but realistically this is the best we are going to be and any talk of silverware is just fantasy. 

TBH, I don't think he's even done that. In Season 2015-16 we had lost only 4 matches by the turn of the year, and last season only 3. It's the second half of the past two seasons that has killed us off, and that's why I'm saying that January will pretty much decide our season. A good return from January's 6 matches then we can say that perhaps the culture is beginning to change. A poor return, and it will look like "same old, same old."

[moops]

3 hours ago, playmaker said:

What a load of crap!

JVS had 6 seasons of opportunity to build a squad to succeed under his reign and he managed nothing in the season proper, nothing.

Last year was a joke and Valkanis is delusional if he thinks any different just because we dominated possession. And if he wishes us well he shouldn't be coming out and talking about this when the team, who is in a dip,  is still in this process of changes away from the inequities of the coaching processes which he was part of, AND, when he had the best list in the A-league.

The 'buddy club' culture has gone and the team is moving towards a 'team centred merit based culture', which in the long term is where success will come. This process takes time.

All this article says to me is that people are under estimating the massive task Wazza has.

I wish Valkanis all the best, now just fk off and shut up.

All the same he makes a good point and I'm pretty sure he never had a say in recruitment, so as you said the swamp is getting drained, but it doesn't address our playing style.

I have tried backing him but my patience is starting to get a bit thin, look at what Kurz is doing with Adelaide and they have Blackwood leading the line!

Kurz is the best coach in the league for mine, Arnold second because Sydney are boring to watch and have probably the best team in individual players.

Edited December 28, 2017 by moops

[n i k o]

1 hour ago, moops said:

All the same he makes a good point and I'm pretty sure he never had a say in recruitment, so as you said the swamp is getting drained, but it doesn't address our playing style.

I have tried backing him but my patience is starting to get a bit thin, look at what Kurz is doing with Adelaide and they have Blackwood leading the line!

Kurz is the best coach in the league for mine, Arnold second because Sydney are boring to watch.

Merrick would put his case forward 

[moops]

3 minutes ago, n i k o said:

Merrick would put his case forward 

I agree, he's underated, but he follows KISS, keep it simple stupid and he used to coach the other team.

Kurz I think has done a remarkable job and has Adelaide playing some good football, I think most people would have picked them outside the six?

Any case it's my personal opinion, I enjoy watching Adelaide more than the Jets this season, but Ernie is no mug.

[playmaker]

2 hours ago, moops said:

so as you said the swamp is getting drained, but it doesn't address our playing style.

Our only issue is we haven't got quality up forward and it just hasn't clicked, but we are getting shots at the target which is a good sign.

If we converted the many easy goals we should have and we had players with better vision then playing style would not be a perceived issue.

The issue is that we lost Bruno, Brandan was a no show due to injury and our marquee is not being played for some reason.

If we had another 12 points like we deserve, then playing style is irrelevant.

Also winning is winning and if Wazza makes the right choices over January to fix our deficiencies then we will make Asia and we will succeed into next season. Fixing the defence seemed to have cost us in attack but it has more to do with quality of players rather than the system that we play. 

Just remember Amor's first half of the winning season was a joke as was Arnie's first season with the smurfs. All Wazza is doing is setting up the foundation and the positive is we are sitting 3rd regardless of our poor performances. Let's see how the next step in this rebuilding process evolves. 

[jw1739]

We'll know by the end of January. The results of six more league matches, and what happens in the mid-season transfer window.

[belaguttman]

8 hours ago, Jovan said:

 

I know we are 3rd and are still in the hunt but realistically this is the best we are going to be and any talk of silverware is just fantasy. 

1

It's just about time for our 5 or 6 game losing streak before a late-season rally (of course only to collapse in the finals)

[moops]

6 hours ago, playmaker said:

Our only issue is we haven't got quality up forward and it just hasn't clicked, but we are getting shots at the target which is a good sign.

If we converted the many easy goals we should have and we had players with better vision then playing style would not be a perceived issue.

The issue is that we lost Bruno, Brandan was a no show due to injury and our marquee is not being played for some reason.

If we had another 12 points like we deserve, then playing style is irrelevant.

Also winning is winning and if Wazza makes the right choices over January to fix our deficiencies then we will make Asia and we will succeed into next season. Fixing the defence seemed to have cost us in attack but it has more to do with quality of players rather than the system that we play. 

Just remember Amor's first half of the winning season was a joke as was Arnie's first season with the smurfs. All Wazza is doing is setting up the foundation and the positive is we are sitting 3rd regardless of our poor performances. Let's see how the next step in this rebuilding process evolves. 

Who said anything about Amor?

Look at what Kurz and Scottie has done at the jets in a short time, you reckon Wazza has been better than them, they have lost their strikers as well?

Too much sherry for you.

Edited December 28, 2017 by moops

[HEARTinator]

Only looking at seasons since 2010-11.

This is how it looks after round 12 in terms of the number of wins for the team sitting 1st on the ladder to the number of wins for us.

Season      Number of wins after round 12: 1st on ladder/Us
2010-11    7/4
2011-12    8/6
2012-13    8/3
2013-14    9/0
2014-15    7/3
2015-16    8/6
2016-17    9/5
2017-18    10/6

After round 12 WSW came from 4th in 2012-13 and ADL came from 7th in 2015-16 to be premiers.

Apart from 2015-16 when ADL came from 7th to win double silverware, if you were on top of the ladder after round 12 you will have gone on to win silverware.

It's too early to tell how the season is going to finish with the top 3-4 teams at this stage having the best shot at winning silverware so we're still in the mix.

Edited December 28, 2017 by HEARTinator

[Jovan]

56 minutes ago, HEARTinator said:

 

It's too early to tell how the season is going to finish with the top 3-4 teams at this stage having the best shot at winning silverware so we're still in the mix.

Are we? 

The way I see it is we are probably were we deserve to be (3rd) and for me it looks highly unlikely we are going to change. Although we are going to get Fornaroli soon and he is arguably the best finisher this League has seen we still don't look like we are going to finish top or win the Grand Final. So basically the best we can hope for is the ACL spot.

And all this is based on how we have played the last 12 rounds and in particularly the big games against Sydney and Victory so far. Had we looked like winning those games or had actually won I guess I wouldn’t be so pessimistic. But we haven't and I can't see us drastically changing our mindset or structure so that we could actually be genuine contenders for silverware. 

Over the past 12 rounds it's been basically the same side every match and more importantly the same structure and mentality so for that to change is highly unlikely. It's pretty clear to me Wazza is not going to change much, he is the type of coach that has a clear idea and method and he is going to stick with it, my problem with that I reackon it's flawed and also it's hard to watch and as a result dulls any optimism and hope.

We've been given a shit sandwich and at the moment we are third way through it.

[Dylan]

34 minutes ago, Jovan said:

Are we? 

The way I see it is we are probably were we deserve to be (3rd) and for me it looks highly unlikely we are going to change. Although we are going to get Fornaroli soon and he is arguably the best finisher this League has seen we still don't look like we are going to finish top or win the Grand Final. So basically the best we can hope for is the ACL spot.

And all this is based on how we have played the last 12 rounds and in particularly the big games against Sydney and Victory so far. Had we looked like winning those games or had actually won I guess I wouldn’t be so pessimistic. But we haven't and I can't see us drastically changing our mindset or structure so that we could actually be genuine contenders for silverware. 

Over the past 12 rounds it's been basically the same side every match and more importantly the same structure and mentality so for that to change is highly unlikely. It's pretty clear to me Wazza is not going to change much, he is the type of coach that has a clear idea and method and he is going to stick with it, my problem with that I reackon it's flawed and also it's hard to watch and as a result dulls any optimism and hope.

We've been given a shit sandwich and at the moment we are third way through it.

This exactly sums up my feeling as well. I dont live in Melbourne anymore, about a 3hr drive away and I havent gone to a game this season because I really cant be bothered with how we are playing. We are 13 rounds in and there has been no change to the style of midfield and attack so IMO its enough to say that he wont change and  probably cant change. Obviously i have not been a fan from the start, I was hoping before Joyce was appointed that we would make a statement with the signing of a coach and we didnt.

Says it all that Joyce persists with a Fat Forward that 11 weeks in and he still looks out of shape, is basically a passenger during games and turns up late to training. But, is good with set pieces. But  relying on that for who is supposed to be your main goal scorer is a huge risk and a bad place to be as you can only rely on the other team making mistakes. Im actually ok with the fact that Fat Forward has been pretty terrible thus far as it decreases the chance that Joyce wouldn't play Fornaroli when he gets back. 

Some defenders of Joyce say its all about results and this (terrible) style we play will bring us results and crowds. It wont, it hassnt and doubt it will. With the crowds, look at Sydney, streets ahead of the league, won everything and there is no improvement in crowds. 

Here is food for thought. This time last season we had the same amount of points and FFA Cup in the bag. 

 

 

[jw1739]

2 hours ago, HEARTinator said:

It's too early to tell how the season is going to finish with the top 3-4 teams at this stage having the best shot at winning silverware so we're still in the mix.

Yes, except that it's us who have lost momentum, with 5 losses in our past 8 matches. That's why I say the six matches in January will make us or break us. We either recover, take say 14 points or so, or continue the slide and take 7-8. The former will see us still in the mix, the latter will see us in mid-table.

[Dylan]

We can’t even counter attack properly 

[Jovan]

1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

Yes, except that it's us who have lost momentum, with 5 losses in our past 8 matches. That's why I say the six matches in January will make us or break us. We either recover, take say 14 points or so, or continue the slide and take 7-8. The former will see us still in the mix, the latter will see us in mid-table.

Of our next 6, 3 are away .We are playing  8th,10th, 6th, 7th ,4th and 2nd so as you say we have lost momentum. Anything less than 14 points then our season is definitely over and FWIW I think it already is.

Don't get me wrong if all of a sudden we turn it around Ross and Bruno start scoring for fun, Carrusca gets into the side and shows his ability I'll be the first to hail Wazza as a genius but I just can't see it.

 

[Shahanga]

My main problem is I just don’t believe the game should be played the way Wazza wants to play it. It’s supposed to be entertainment and to me in very broad terms that’s having the ball and trying to do something with it, not stacking your team with defenders and praying for a set piece opportunity.

I keep waiting to see what else Wazza has in his locker.......

[jw1739]

1 hour ago, Shahanga said:

My main problem is I just don’t believe the game should be played the way Wazza wants to play it. It’s supposed to be entertainment and to me in very broad terms that’s having the ball and trying to do something with it, not stacking your team with defenders and praying for a set piece opportunity.

I keep waiting to see what else Wazza has in his locker.......

An open ticket back to Oldham, Lancashire, valid from now until about June 2019?

[Shahanga]

1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

An open ticket back to Oldham, Lancashire, valid from now until about June 2019?

Concentrating on getting defence right and then building your attack is a sensible strategy. In essence Wazza has alluded that this is his plan.

Ive no problems with that, but when you refuse to select the best footballers and stack a team with work horses and defenders the hope of “one day playing good football” seems unlikely.

[Dylan]

Get Arteta in

[haz]

1 hour ago, Dylan said:

Get Arteta in

Was hoping for him when JVS left

[Imtellingyou]

It seems that he hasn't acclimated yet. So reserved and scared, like playing at least Championship opposition. It's just plain A-league. He plays defenders even  in the middle and look what's our GD, zero, same as other clubs with normal setup. 

[belaguttman]

4 hours ago, Imtellingyou said:

It seems that he hasn't acclimated yet. So reserved and scared, like playing at least Championship opposition. It's just plain A-league. He plays defenders even  in the middle and look what's our GD, zero, same as other clubs with normal setup. 

He's only 'fixed the defence' in that we are now conceding at the same rate as other clubs rather than more. Ou defence is not good. Our attack is poor.

[HEARTinator]

The missus is just telling me that Wazza is a stupid coach. Who am I too argue with her 

[playmaker]

Wazza will be our greatest ever manager.

We will win all the titles with him including Asian next year.

[kingofhearts]

22 hours ago, playmaker said:

Wazza will be our greatest ever manager.

We will win all the titles with him including Asian next year.

Maybe on FIFA

[playmaker]

15 minutes ago, kingofhearts said:

Maybe on FIFA

The greatest ever, you will see.

[Murfy1]

My best guess is that Warren Joyce was meant to be a type of Mancini figure, someone who would provide a solid foundation, sort out that defence, and produce a highly professional and hardworking culture.

 

My guess is that Joyce has been given one season to get stuff like that right. Then, next season CFG's overaching philosophy will come back into play, and attacking football of the style of Pellegrini/Guardiola will then be expected here at Melbourne City again.

 

I've been rather weary about Joyce's approach from the start. I've got no problems with a "no-nonsense" defence-first approach per se. But any approach or strategy needs to be implemented effectively. And I am increasingly unsure that Joyce is actually producing an effective defence-first approach here, that can give MCFC any kind of success (flooding a midfield with defenders, and clearly not creating tactics or practicing attacking much isn't a sound approach IMO, of any kind).

[xXCiTyZeNXx]

Piss off u hack 

[xXCiTyZeNXx]

Warran Joyce is a hack. Coached united youth with the best youth players already and struggles to coach an average league side. He is a joke and i hope he can fix his own mistake. Plays a shit twig named Kamau, players a defender as a central mid and plays a shit keeper who had one lucky match and is not even playing our FUCKING MARQUEE

Hurry up and sign a forward already

Hurry up and sign a winger already

Or piss off somewhere else. If we wanted to concede this amount of goals, we would have kept JVS

Everyone is over this shit now