Season 23/24 - Round 8 - Melbourne City v CCM Sunday 17th 5:00 pm

[Torn Asunder]

Was at the game and we made enough chances in the 1st half that we should have at least been 2 up at half time. 

The Mariners 1st goal shouldn't have stood as there was as clear as day handball in the lead up ... the refereeing was atrocious 

We were spent by half way through the 2nd half but credit to the boys for fighting back to at least get a point.

[NewConvert]

Re-watched the game and I thought that Ugarcovic is not the kind of player that CFG would have. There was very little creativity from him.

And I also came to the conclusion that Talbot is playing as a sop to those who miss Wales playing in City colours.

[belaguttman]

45 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

Re-watched the game and I thought that Ugarcovic is not the kind of player that CFG would have. There was very little creativity from him.

And I also came to the conclusion that Talbot is playing as a sop to those who miss Wales playing in City colours.

I think that Ugarkovic's lack of positioning and ability to break up play and initiate attacking transitions is what is really costing us. We struggled during the games that O'Neill didn't play over the past few seasons; I think that DM is a key position in CFG's style of play.

[Mr MO]

5 hours ago, belaguttman said:

I think that Ugarkovic's lack of positioning and ability to break up play and initiate attacking transitions is what is really costing us. We struggled during the games that O'Neill didn't play over the past few seasons; I think that DM is a key position in CFG's style of play.

Yes very true - even Man City looks different without Rodri.

[Le Hack]

Is it just me or do you think they've abandoned using the full back who is not attacking as a second DM? Is this because they're trying to tailor the game plan to Aziz and Talbot who don't quite grasp it? I'm a little perplexed by this since Jamos an assistant coach and was rather an expert on this. Surely this would help Ugarkovic provide cover for the slow CBs

[NewConvert]

45 minutes ago, Le Hack said:

Is it just me or do you think they've abandoned using the full back who is not attacking as a second DM? Is this because they're trying to tailor the game plan to Aziz and Talbot who don't quite grasp it? I'm a little perplexed by this since Jamos an assistant coach and was rather an expert on this. Surely this would help Ugarkovic provide cover for the slow CBs

I think you may be right. But you have to remember that Good & Reis have slowed down so that may not be feasible. Last season with had Lam and VdV as well as O'Neill. Soupra is doing a bit of this but I don't think he has the mobility that Lam did. And Soupra is a walking red card.

So it is not so much as that the club has abandoned the game plan but rather that the players can't maintain it. Hence the results and now the adaptation.

[Mr MO]

5 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

I think you may be right. But you have to remember that Good & Reis have slowed down so that may not be feasible. Last season with had Lam and VdV as well as O'Neill. Soupra is doing a bit of this but I don't think he has the mobility that Lam did. And Soupra is a walking red card.

So it is not so much as that the club has abandoned the game plan but rather that the players can't maintain it. Hence the results and now the adaptation.

Agree.

Also remember moving a fullback into midfield position was only in possession 

With turnover and no recovery speed at the back you are extremely exposed on one wing. Saying that Man City stopped using it when Zinchenko and Cancello left, they now move a CB into midfield mostly Stones or Akanji. Our team is certainly not ready for that.

[kingofhearts]

Let me offer the half glass full approach...

So far this season we have been missing our best player for all but 2 games (leckie) and 9 of out of the 11 players who started for us in the grand finals last season are gone (plus the coach)

Despite all of this we have been able to remain pretty competitive against most teams in the league (barring the Adelaide disaster)and are just sitting what is it, 5 points off first place? 

Now their are issues with the squad, and I don't think that we are necessarily the bench mark of the competition so far this season. However, with a few minor tweaks, I see no reason why we couldn't be contending. Let me explain more...

KING OF HEARTS 5 EASY STEP PLAN TO PREMIERSHIP SUCCESS

1) BENCH TALBOLT FOR GALLOWAY. Pretty self explanatory,  barring being younger, talbolt is mid as all hell. Galloway isn't a superstar himself, but he's definitely good enough to be starting in this league

2) BENCH YOUNG FOR OUR YOUNGER KEEPER WHO I HAVE FORGOTTEN THE NAME OF.

Jamie, we appreciate what you have done for Australian football, but it is now time for you to take a seat and begin a mentoring role at the club. Let's give the kids a go

3) FIX THE MIDFIELD. 

In the past we have been lucky enough to have quality players like leckie and O'Neil who have been able to carry us when the midfield wasn't working well. This season, barring Aslan, we have no creativity or fluency in our midfield.  To fix this, we need to bench ugarkovic and replace with a new signing (to be announced) and tell Sakhi that he either improves his work rate, or he will be replaced by lopane on a permanent basis.

4) LET LEO GO

You will go down as having the best 2 minutes in club debut history but Leo, you are simply too lazy to cut it at this level. Have Leo come off the bench and replace him with a youth product who yes, may make mistakes but we'll at least put 110% of effort in all the time 

5) BE A PROACTIVE COACH

Vidmar needs to actually make changes to the squad during matches and not simply just be an observer. For example, jakolis essentially did not touch the ball for the whole second half on Sunday, due to being marked out of the game by the ccm fullback. You know what you can do vidmar? How about swap sides with Leo to get him back into the game! We use to have nabbout and leckie swap sides all the time when they played,  why can't we do the same with our wingers now?

Their are also a number of players who's work rate is below average, and you're responsible for making sure they're engaged and ready to fire when they get on the pitch.

I guarantee if we follow all of these steps, we will be on the way to premiership glory before you know it!

[jw1739]

@kingofheartsSpot on KoH. The GK's name is Patrick Beach. Would you try Antonis in place of Ugarkovic? Because I think in terms of new faces we are probably limited by cap space.

[NewConvert]

@kingofhearts Jakolis was marked by Jacob Farrel who I really rate. I am still surprised that he is in the A-League as he is skilfull and dangerous. He really needs to look for an opportunity in a better league (not Scottish).

1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

@kingofheartsSpot on KoH. The GK's name is Patrick Beach. Would you try Antonis in place of Ugarkovic? Because I think in terms of new faces we are probably limited by cap space.

Return Natel to Brazil in January. That should leave the space for another loan replacement. Put Caputo/Mezzio as Nabbout's replacement. Bring on loan someone from the CFG stable that is a capable of playing defensive mid-fielder.

[rass]

Here's another easy fix and would probably offer answers to some issues like playing slow out of the backline, susceptible to opposition presses and hence turnovers, CDM not positioning well, full backs not inverting...

..how about playing both a right footer and left footer as your 2 CBs, instead of 2 lefties? 

 

[jw1739]

1 hour ago, NewConvert said:

@kingofhearts Jakolis was marked by Jacob Farrel who I really rate. I am still surprised that he is in the A-League as he is skilfull and dangerous. He really needs to look for an opportunity in a better league (not Scottish).

Return Natel to Brazil in January. That should leave the space for another loan replacement. Put Caputo/Mezzio as Nabbout's replacement. Bring on loan someone from the CFG stable that is a capable of playing defensive mid-fielder.

Beggars belief that within the CFG stable there are not young loan players available. Likewise that there isn't an assistant coach to replace PK/Rado/Vidmar.

At the moment it seems as though we are the rock bottom of the CFG pile, even being a feeder club to Mumbai. Why didn't Kratky take over here instead of going to India?

[NewConvert]

38 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Beggars belief that within the CFG stable there are not young loan players available. Likewise that there isn't an assistant coach to replace PK/Rado/Vidmar.

At the moment it seems as though we are the rock bottom of the CFG pile, even being a feeder club to Mumbai. Why didn't Kratky take over here instead of going to India?

Alex Robertson comes to mind. He is on loan to Portsmouth in League 1. I am sure that he could have done just as well here.

[kingofhearts]

3 hours ago, jw1739 said:

@kingofheartsSpot on KoH. The GK's name is Patrick Beach. Would you try Antonis in place of Ugarkovic? Because I think in terms of new faces we are probably limited by cap space.

Yeap completely forgot about antonis but I'd put him in. Out midfield just needs a rejig, ATM it is really lacking any type of creative flare.

1 hour ago, NewConvert said:

@kingofhearts Jakolis was marked by Jacob Farrel who I really rate. I am still surprised that he is in the A-League as he is skilfull and dangerous. He really needs to look for an opportunity in a better league (not Scottish).

Return Natel to Brazil in January. That should leave the space for another loan replacement. Put Caputo/Mezzio as Nabbout's replacement. Bring on loan someone from the CFG stable that is a capable of playing defensive mid-fielder.

An interesting point I forgot to talk about is the maclaren. He's clearly playing injured so why not play Caputo more? The kid is good, he just needs some opportunity to play.

 

[jw1739]

8 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

Alex Robertson comes to mind. He is on loan to Portsmouth in League 1. I am sure that he could have done just as well here.

I think that you'll find Manchester City young players are on a nice wicket, but I wonder how much we're paying both Jakolis and Lazy Leo? 

I was thinking more along the lines of one of the lower clubs in the hierarchy e.g. Palermo in Serie B.

Edited December 19, 2023 by jw1739

[NewConvert]

1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

I think that you'll find Manchester City young players are on a nice wicket, but I wonder how much we're paying both Jakolis and Lazy Leo? 

I was thinking more along the lines of one of the lower clubs in the hierarchy e.g. Palermo in Serie B.

Alex Robertson is Aussie hence he does not need a visa.

[jw1739]

41 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

Alex Robertson is Aussie hence he does not need a visa.

@NewConvert I know, but I'm talking about fitting him under the cap.

[NewConvert]

1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

@NewConvert I know, but I'm talking about fitting him under the cap.

So how does an injury replacement work?

[jw1739]

9 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

So how does an injury replacement work?

Like for like. AFAIK cannot replace an injured forward with a midfielder etc. and still has to fit under the cap even though the remuneration of the replacement player is covered by insurance.

[moops]

They also changed the loan laws so that the loaned players wage at their parent club counts towards the cap, not what our club is paying. They brought it in because they were scared our club would bring in Man City youths on low wages or none at all, yet would be on decent wages for the parent club.

A bit reductive, it could have improved the standard of the league pushing all teams to be better and find solutions, or as they would have been City youths, they may not have been that good anyway.

[jw1739]

9 minutes ago, moops said:

They also changed the loan laws so that the loaned players wage at their parent club counts towards the cap, not what our club is paying. They brought it in because they were scared our club would bring in Man City youths on low wages or none at all, yet would be on decent wages for the parent club.

A bit reductive, it could have improved the standard of the league pushing all teams to be better and find solutions, or as they would have been City youths, they may not have been that good anyway.

Correct. Colloquially known as the "Lampard Rule." It was a deliberate anti-City/CFG move. Other clubs had been exploiting the loan situation - e.g. Victory with Carlos Hernandez.

[NewConvert]

9 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Correct. Colloquially known as the "Lampard Rule." It was a deliberate anti-City/CFG move. Other clubs had been exploiting the loan situation - e.g. Victory with Carlos Hernandez.

That is crap. According to Transfermrkt, Natel is about $480k and his loan contract finishes at season's end. Still, surely inside the CFG clubs (Troyes, Mumbai, Yokohama, etc) there would have been a player capable of replacing Nabbout.

[HughJass]

12 hours ago, moops said:

They brought it in because they were scared our club would bring in Man City youths on low wages or none at all, yet would be on decent wages for the parent club

 

12 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Correct. Colloquially known as the "Lampard Rule." It was a deliberate anti-City/CFG move. Other clubs had been exploiting the loan situation - e.g. Victory with Carlos Hernandez

Nope they bought it in after victory got Rogic and Troisi and possibly jets with Nathan Burns https://www.sbs.com.au/sport/article/ffa-changed-loan-rules-after-salary-cap-concerns/3wak1d0ty

[moops]

3 hours ago, HughJass said:

 

Nope they bought it in after victory got Rogic and Troisi and possibly jets with Nathan Burns https://www.sbs.com.au/sport/article/ffa-changed-loan-rules-after-salary-cap-concerns/3wak1d0ty

I'm happy to be corrected, thanks. Personally I don't have a problem with it, it's shrewd business and improves the league.

[jw1739]

On 20/12/2023 at 11:38 AM, moops said:

I'm happy to be corrected, thanks. Personally I don't have a problem with it, it's shrewd business and improves the league.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/football/a-league/ffa-set-to-introduce-anthony-caceres-rule-to-stop-melbourne-city-signing-players-through-its-brother-club-manchester-city/news-story/25f81cec94d6962b204a2d7da9c3b67a

Well, if we are wrong, so it seems was the the Herald-Sun.

[HughJass]

On 24/12/2023 at 7:24 PM, jw1739 said:

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/football/a-league/ffa-set-to-introduce-anthony-caceres-rule-to-stop-melbourne-city-signing-players-through-its-brother-club-manchester-city/news-story/25f81cec94d6962b204a2d7da9c3b67a

Well, if we are wrong, so it seems was the the Herald-Sun.

That was to stop city paying transfers as aleague teams couldn't do it until last year only could do the 'mutual termination'. Funnily enough the 450k or whatever it was for caceras helped out ccm

[jw1739]

Agreed, but the article does refer to the "Lampard Rule" as well.

[Mr MO]

20 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Agreed, but the article does refer to the "Lampard Rule" as well.

Something did happen around Lampard, as I remember Victory and Sydney made a big fuss despite these clubs exploiting the loan set up themselves in the past. 

I just can’t figure out what was different with Troisi, Rogic and then Lampard - perhaps City found another loophole through club affiliation.

Edited December 26, 2023 by Mr MO

[malloy]

19 hours ago, Mr MO said:

Something did happen around Lampard, as I remember Victory and Sydney made a big fuss despite these clubs exploiting the loan set up themselves in the past. 

I just can’t figure out what was different with Troisi, Rogic and then Lampard - perhaps City found another loophole through club affiliation.

Troisi, Rogic were negotiated on an arm's length / commercial basis. The concerne was that Man City could just buy players to loan to Melb City, with Man City footinv majority of wage bill, thereby making a mockery of salary cap.