Round 10 away to Smurfs

[bt50]

11 hours ago, NewConvert said:

Unfortunately due to work commitments I did not get to see the game. With respect to simulation/refereeing quality, why doesn't the match review panel do anything? If a simulation is successful then obviously the ref has been conned and shouldn't the MRP then suspend the player and if a a goal is scored from the simulation the goal be disallowed and the new result stand?

In my view if the FFA had any interest in reducing simulation/thuggery on the field then the MRP is the first place to begin with. Additionally, the MRP can then pass on the findings to the refereeing training staff (I am assuming that the refs get trained but it is difficult to tell from the sidelines) to modify their training methods.

An alternative viewpoint that I read many years ago was that the reason why FIFA permits simulation is because it is a method of generating clickbait. This forum is an example of that because passionate people debate the topic during the week and the following week and so on.

They havent taken action because none of the incidents have been simulation. They've been gross overreactions to minor incidents, but there has been contact to the face in each case. I'm not advocating what theyve done, its shit, but if you start rubbing blokes out for overreactions/theatrics where do you stop. Can of worms.

 

Edited December 11, 2016 by bt50

[KSK_47]

24 minutes ago, bt50 said:

 They've been gross overreactions to minor incidents 

 

I cant be bothered going through fifa rule books to find the exact wording but my understanding is that this is simulation. By defination of the word it would be simulation

Edited December 11, 2016 by KSK_47

[bt50]

2 minutes ago, KSK_47 said:

I cant be bothered going through fifa rule books to find the exact wording but my understanding is that this is simulation

Either way, going down the path of penalising that stuff will cause a lot of issues. These ones might seem clear cut, but theres plenty that aren't; Bobo's penalty for example. Clear contact, but grossly overreacted to that contact. Do you penalise that too? It's the elephant in the room because its not as black and white as people would like to make out. The game would descend into a farce very quickly.

Cases like Pogba where there is no contact, chuck the book at them, but where there is its always going to hard to call.

[KSK_47]

7 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Either way, going down the path of penalising that stuff will cause a lot of issues. These ones might seem clear cut, but theres plenty that aren't; Bobo's penalty for example. Clear contact, but grossly overreacted to that contact. Do you penalise that too? It's the elephant in the room because its not as black and white as people would like to make out. The game would descend into a farce very quickly.

Cases like Pogba where there is no contact, chuck the book at them, but where there is its always going to hard to call.

I spent my entire Saturday discussing this so i wont go over it again. Brandans was clear simulation and he should be penalized

[strider]

We should penalise PPL ( @cadete ) for making Brando dive IMO

[Tony999]

Since North was not penalized then Brandan shouldn't be penalized either. Let's move on from this simulation talk now.

Next.

[strider]

2 minutes ago, Tony999 said:

Since North was not penalized then Brandan shouldn't be penalized either. Let's move on from this simulation talk now.

Next.

The man has spoken

Carry on women

[ecguymer]

Ultimately, if the FFA does do a crackdown on simulation, they'll need to be careful not to deviate too far from internationally accepted interpretations of the rules in an effort to appease the "it's not the Australian way" crowd (many of whom don't seem to like the sport to begin with); as doing so would be detrimental for player recruitment (both international players coming in, and good young players wanting some seasoning before going overseas), the apparently growing international audience the league currently has, and for international opportunities for our refs (one of the ways that we can currently improve the refs, both individually and as a group); and then potential flow-on effects to sponsorship and international investment

[bt50]

2 minutes ago, ecguymer said:

Ultimately, if the FFA does do a crackdown on simulation, they'll need to be careful not to deviate too far from internationally accepted interpretations of the rules in an effort to appease the "it's not the Australian way" crowd (many of whom don't seem to like the sport to begin with); as doing so would be detrimental for player recruitment (both international players coming in, and good young players wanting some seasoning before going overseas), the apparently growing international audience the league currently has, and for international opportunities for our refs (one of the ways that we can currently improve the refs, both individually and as a group); and then potential flow-on effects to sponsorship and international investment

Very. very true. An important but oft overlooked factor.

[Thrillhouse]

This shits doing my head in, constant simulation talk when there actually is a bit of contact and the media is completely ignoring another abortion of a reffing performance, fuck all talk about bobo's tackle on franjic and nothing on simon being a thug once again. 

[belaguttman]

1 hour ago, Tony999 said:

Since North was not penalized then Brandan shouldn't be penalized either. Let's move on from this simulation talk now.

Next.

I think that this is an area where fans have a lot of influence. If its clear that nobody in the audience supports simulation then it'll stop pretty quickly

[Tony999]

3 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

I think that this is an area where fans have a lot of influence. If its clear that nobody in the audience supports simulation then it'll stop pretty quickly

He is South American, remember? Accepted culture

[jw1739]

10 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

I think that this is an area where fans have a lot of influence. If its clear that nobody in the audience supports simulation then it'll stop pretty quickly

Active people on here? About 60 or so. How many people up in arms about theatrics/simulation etc? A handful. How many coaches complaining about it? One. Media commentary? Most is syndicated from a couple of sources only. Nobody else cares very much. FFA has the power to deal with it and will do so if thought necessary.

Move on.

[hakz7]

33 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Active people on here? About 60 or so. How many people up in arms about theatrics/simulation etc? A handful. How many coaches complaining about it? One. Media commentary? Most is syndicated from a couple of sources only. Nobody else cares very much. FFA has the power to deal with it and will do so if thought necessary.

Move on.

The FFA will only do what's best for us 

[Jacques Le Cube]

After 7 pages of bitching about the ref, no one has mentioned that we managed just 1 shot on target and 5 attempts on goal for the entire match. In 3 out of 10 matches this season we have managed 1 or less shots on target.

Also, no one has mentioned that Kilkenny should've got a second yellow for deliberate hand ball early in the second half. We should've been down to 10 men ourselves.

Any talk of us being robbed is delusional. We were poor, again. And now we are only 1 point ahead of a rubbish visitors team who have a game in hand and a superior goal difference.

 

[belaguttman]

We are playing poorly at the moment. We are struggling to break down organised defences just like any attacking proactive team but this leaves us little margin for ever especially considering our less than stellar defence, hence the high number of draws. Last season our biggest criticism of the team was that it was too biased to attacking and from that perspective we are better balanced this season however I think that we do need more effective attacking prowess.

This season we are more passionate on the pitch and less likely to roll over in the face of aggression but as always every positive has a downside, we are collecting yellows to strategic players and risk an inevitable red card - the derby is a real risk for this.

[belaguttman]

2 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Active people on here? About 60 or so. How many people up in arms about theatrics/simulation etc? A handful. How many coaches complaining about it? One. Media commentary? Most is syndicated from a couple of sources only. Nobody else cares very much. FFA has the power to deal with it and will do so if thought necessary.

Move on.

Moral leadership is important, especially if it isn't popular

[japiedog]

2 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Active people on here? About 60 or so. How many people up in arms about theatrics/simulation etc? A handful. How many coaches complaining about it? One. Media commentary? Most is syndicated from a couple of sources only. Nobody else cares very much. FFA has the power to deal with it and will do so if thought necessary.

Move on.

how many people does the theatrics and simulation turn away from the A league ?

we should be riding high on the crest of a wave gathering supporters, but personally I know of 10 friends who were on the cusp of thinking of throwing there lot in with us , who have baulked at the idea after the last few weeks of viewing, starting with Kilkenny's performance and climaxing in Brandan's. Just saying, it doesn't endear itself to enticing a new support base.

 

 

[jeffplz]

8 minutes ago, japiedog said:

how many people does the theatrics and simulation turn away from the A league ?

we should be riding high on the crest of a wave gathering supporters, but personally I know of 10 friends who were on the cusp of thinking of throwing there lot in with us , who have baulked at the idea after the last few weeks of viewing, starting with Kilkenny's performance and climaxing in Brandan's. Just saying, it doesn't endear itself to enticing a new support base.

 

 

On the other hand, my 10 eurosnob mates who I turned to city fans do not give a single fuck about the theatrics.

[bt50]

10 minutes ago, japiedog said:

how many people does the theatrics and simulation turn away from the A league ?

we should be riding high on the crest of a wave gathering supporters, but personally I know of 10 friends who were on the cusp of thinking of throwing there lot in with us , who have baulked at the idea after the last few weeks of viewing, starting with Kilkenny's performance and climaxing in Brandan's. Just saying, it doesn't endear itself to enticing a new support base.

 

 

Noone here is advocating it, there's just a few of us that dont seem to think its as big a deal as people are making it out to be.

[Alexxxandro]

3 minutes ago, jeffplz said:

On the other hand, my 10 eurosnob mates who I turned to city fans do not give a single fuck about the theatrics.

But... surely they would still be into it with or without the theatrics whereas it sounds like some of japie's friends are holding off at the moment out of not being sure they want to associate with the club if the theatrics continue...

[playmaker]

3 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Noone here is advocating it, there's just a few of us that dont seem to think its as big a deal as people are making it out to be.

Football fans in general don't think its a big deal because it isn't. Its the ignorant media majority that think it is and try to convince people it is.

My friends from France think this whole discussion is a joke and one said he now understands what football is up against in this country. Main stream media is so bias against football its ridiculous.

[japiedog]

it's the A league as a whole that's losing out, not just us

Died in the wool supporters will keep watching and attending, Euro snobs also, expats from countries where football is king, will follow the game

It's the NEW market the the A league is wanting to target and capture that will turn away, due to this season ( in particular) theatrics.

as  i mentioned, in my case the 10 friends aren't football people, so it's been a tough sell to get them interested, the sexy football we played early on almost had them in the door, the acting over the last month has shut the door.

 

 

 

[Tony999]

15 minutes ago, japiedog said:

it's the A league as a whole that's losing out, not just us

Died in the wool supporters will keep watching and attending, Euro snobs also, expats from countries where football is king, will follow the game

It's the NEW market the the A league is wanting to target and capture that will turn away, due to this season ( in particular) theatrics.

as  i mentioned, in my case the 10 friends aren't football people, so it's been a tough sell to get them interested, the sexy football we played early on almost had them in the door, the acting over the last month has shut the door.

 

 

 

Really? Well those guys must be sensitive. Going by that logic, AFL should get 3 people to every game then as all the drugs should put people right off.

[KSK_47]

55 minutes ago, playmaker said:

Football fans in general don't think its a big deal because it isn't. Its the ignorant media majority that think it is and try to convince people it is.

My friends from France think this whole discussion is a joke and one said he now understands what football is up against in this country. Main stream media is so bias against football its ridiculous.

Lol you seriously think that Australia is the only country in the world that hates simulation in football?

You're friend is right. This conversation is a joke. The joke being you think this is an media conspiracy all to hold back the game.

Lol. Fuck me dead this forum sometimes 

 

[playmaker]

18 minutes ago, KSK_47 said:

Lol you seriously think that Australia is the only country in the world that hates simulation in football?

You're friend is right. This conversation is a joke. The joke being you think this is an media conspiracy all to hold back the game.

Lol. Fuck me dead this forum sometimes 

 

i will let him know that his opinion is not valid because the forum god has spoken.

[KSK_47]

5 minutes ago, playmaker said:

i will let him know that his opinion is not valid because the forum god has spoken.

Or maybe you could come up with an intellectual counter argument if you want to debate?

[playmaker]

29 minutes ago, KSK_47 said:

Or maybe you could come up with an intellectual counter argument if you want to debate?

You need to take a breathe mate, its just a football game, geez

[KSK_47]

18 minutes ago, playmaker said:

You need to take a breathe mate, its just a football game, geez

I just like to understand where people are coming from. If I disagree with them or they disagree with me, then thats completely fine I just like to understand why they think a certain way.

The only defense of Brandans actions seems to be that its OK in some countries overseas so Australia should change its culture in accordance with their culture. That doesnt really make sense to me because we are not overseas and telling the country to change its culture is ridiculous. So I am trying to get a reason that makes sense to me and so far nobody has given one.

Edited December 12, 2016 by KSK_47

[jeffplz]

http://www.a-league.com.au/article/outcome-of-independent-match-review-panel---round-10/esm0906oerrt17bbaw0aw4lrq

MRP of this match

[fensaddler]

45 minutes ago, jeffplz said:

http://www.a-league.com.au/article/outcome-of-independent-match-review-panel---round-10/esm0906oerrt17bbaw0aw4lrq

MRP of this match

Good on them, he needs seeing to.

I'm British, football has always been my game.  I hated simulation in the UK and I hate it here.  However, I suspect there are many countries where the expected and accepted norms are different.  Australia does have a choice, at this point, about the culture it wants to adopt on this.  There is no universal norm.

[playmaker]

9 minutes ago, fensaddler said:

Good on them, he needs seeing to.

I'm British, football has always been my game.  I hated simulation in the UK and I hate it here.  However, I suspect there are many countries where the expected and accepted norms are different.  Australia does have a choice, at this point, about the culture it wants to adopt on this.  There is no universal norm.

So tell us what you would expect if a player fell to the ground from a legal tackle and then went to get up and then got contact to the face?

 

[KSK_47]

14 minutes ago, playmaker said:

So tell us what you would expect if a player fell to the ground from a legal tackle and then went to get up and then got contact to the face?

 

Like actual contact? Or like the slightest of touches that happened to north and brandan?

[fensaddler]

55 minutes ago, playmaker said:

So tell us what you would expect if a player fell to the ground from a legal tackle and then went to get up and then got contact to the face?

 

Pretty simple.  It would be a judgement by the ref and if necessary the MRP whether the reaction was proportionate.

[Torn Asunder]

Based on that article the MRP is only dealing with the Matt Simon incident.  hopefully he gets 3 weeks ...  or was his hip and shoulder culturally ok? 🤔

[playmaker]

1 hour ago, fensaddler said:

Pretty simple.  It would be a judgement by the ref and if necessary the MRP whether the reaction was proportionate.

I mean player reaction.

 

[n i k o]

Bring back the biff

[Shahanga]

On 10/12/2016 at 11:50 AM, KSK_47 said:

There is no rule against a noisy appeal in cricket. 

Agree. In fact it's the opposite, a batsman cannot be given out unless there is an appeal, so you have to. It's not a fitting analogy. 

[Shahanga]

8 hours ago, Jacques Le Cube said:

After 7 pages of bitching about the ref, no one has mentioned that we managed just 1 shot on target and 5 attempts on goal for the entire match. In 3 out of 10 matches this season we have managed 1 or less shots on target.

Also, no one has mentioned that Kilkenny should've got a second yellow for deliberate hand ball early in the second half. We should've been down to 10 men ourselves.

Any talk of us being robbed is delusional. We were poor, again. And now we are only 1 point ahead of a rubbish visitors team who have a game in hand and a superior goal difference.

Not just that, their striker managed to turn himself into a "superpower" defender by sitting in an offside position and getting the faintest of touches on a goal bound ball. Seen a lot of football but I can't recall  seeing that before.

With the ball All we seem to do going forward is cross ineffective high balls into Bruno who is no Timmy Cahill in the air and only gets the ball to his feet when surrounded by gorillas. I think we need to play one of the Argentines as #10.

[fensaddler]

1 hour ago, playmaker said:

I mean player reaction.

 

So did I.