MVFC v MCFC - The Derby! R3

[MHFCROB24]

All I can think about is. This is a steady fix. I think I was to eager thinking things will change straight away (maybe they can) but if we can bring in next season more players like Mooy and duff we wil be going places. Tonight hurts. But I have a feeling cfg won't stand for mediocrity for to long.

Well done to the terrace. Up top and bottom.

[Kiro Kompiro]

Agree with your comments ...

The signs were there in preseason, I remember the FFA cup game against Sydney FC. At the end of the game I said, if we are going to play this style of high press and high intensity then we need to be leading at half time in all our matches, because even the best teams in the world who play this type of style (Real Madrid, Chile, Byern) can only really do it for a max of 70-75 min ...

We do it for 60min and then were fucked.. Tonight we did it for 50mins that's why Victory completely dominated in the 2nd half..

Apart from not having a striker, shit LB and RB, the team is not fit enough to play the style.. That's what this result shows me.

 

Agree.  It was obvious from the first game.  

[KSK_47]

Agree, but so much needed fixing after the Sidwell/Aloisi era what do you do? Do you replace half the duds with good quality players and accept that the squad will still have some very significant weaknesses or do you replace everyone with small incremental improvements?

 

 

 

Oh not this again.

 

Yeah, it cant be the fault of JVS After all he is a genius with an overall average of 30% win ratio. 

 

Just unlucky to have inherited our squad!

 

 

Unlike the Visitors' Allsop, none of these C*nts will terminate by "mutual" consent.

 

 

By which you mean they had their contracts payed out and were told to say it was mutual. Yeah. You are right. We cant afford to pay out contracts can we?

Edited October 25, 2014 by KSK_47

[KSK_47]

Just found our new mascot. Screw Ticker and Bluey. 

 

Unlucky Alf!

 

[Kiro Kompiro]

 

Agree, but so much needed fixing after the Sidwell/Aloisi era what do you do? Do you replace half the duds with good quality players and accept that the squad will still have some very significant weaknesses or do you replace everyone with small incremental improvements?

 

 

 

Oh not this again.

 

Yeah, it cant be the fault of JVS After all he is a genius with an overall average of 30% win ratio. 

 

Just unlucky to have inherited our squad!

 

 

Unlike the Visitors' Allsop, none of these C*nts will terminate by "mutual" consent.

 

 

By which you mean they had their contracts payed out and were told to say it was mutual. Yeah. You are right. We cant afford to pay out contracts can we?

 

 

We can, but it would be the end of these guys careers.  Allsop didn't care, our guys till think they are footballers.

[KSK_47]

 

 

Agree, but so much needed fixing after the Sidwell/Aloisi era what do you do? Do you replace half the duds with good quality players and accept that the squad will still have some very significant weaknesses or do you replace everyone with small incremental improvements?

 

 

 

Oh not this again.

 

Yeah, it cant be the fault of JVS After all he is a genius with an overall average of 30% win ratio. 

 

Just unlucky to have inherited our squad!

 

 

Unlike the Visitors' Allsop, none of these C*nts will terminate by "mutual" consent.

 

 

By which you mean they had their contracts payed out and were told to say it was mutual. Yeah. You are right. We cant afford to pay out contracts can we?

 

 

We can, but it would be the end of these guys careers.  Allsop didn't care, our guys till think they are footballers.

 

 

They are all top blokes, so I guess they can stay!

 

*by top blokes I mean they exchanged a few pleasant words with me and my son at family day 

Edited October 25, 2014 by KSK_47

[NewConvert]

Just got home. Pretty awful. And confirmed what most posters have been saying through the pre-season. The defensive players are not up to it. We have no proper striker. And our mid-field can lack creativity.

 

As for Villa the people I was with discussed whether he is giving 100%. By matches end we had come to the conclusion that he is not - does not track back to assist the defence and if there is physical contact he backs off. Having said that I think he has played some of the displayed the best skills I have seen on Australian soil. But for now, if he does not return from NY I am not fussed. Interestingly enough many people though that he would boss it, score heaps and take City to the top of the table. This has proven false because football is a team game and he can't do everything by himself; and the A-League is a lot better than what people give it credit for.

 

For me both Ramsay and Hoffman were just as bad. Hoffman was slightly better because he scored a goal. Otherwise Victory could exploit either the left or the right. The A-League has passed them by (if they ever were up to the standard) and really the coaching staff have to make a decision: send them both to the Youth League and develop  Garuccio, Archibald and Mauk or persevere with them so that we can come last again.

 

There has been talk that City can sign either Bresciano or Kennedy as the marquee. I want Kennedy as we don't have a credentialled  striker and we have plenty of mid-fielders. We need a linchpin up forward. And yes I am aware that we need more creativity out of Murdocca but I am hoping that Koren will come good by December and he can replace the uncreative mid-fielders.

 

As for JVS I was willing to give him another go. But right now, at this very minute, you better contact your friends in the Dutch media about vacancies.

 

I am going to bed knowing that there are 24 matches to go. Knowing that at season's end, Ramsay's, Redmayne's, Wieleart's and others'  contract come to an end. If someone like me, who has just recently converted to football can see that these players are no longer good enough for the A League, the surely so can the recruiting staff at MCFC.

[Ando]

Ramsay is a shithead footballer. He can fuck right off. 

 

If JvS can't see that, he should fuck right off too. 

 

New strip, new name, same old Heart. 

[Thrillhouse]

shit night on and off the field 

victory supporters in our bay

strebre dead set shitcunt

villa lazy (only striker in squad and jvs puts him on wing)

away bay dead after 3rd goal and heaps standing on chairs

redmayne being redmayne 

[Torn Asunder]

Hopefully CFG and Melbourne City people are smarting in the knowledge that tonight's performance and result has set the club back to the point whereby we are being viewed in the same dim light as Heart when things were running pear shaped.

All the positive things that came during preseason are wasted, and we are clearly miles behind the tards, which pains me no end.

I will stick by the club, as I have done from the start, no matter what, but please CFG, if you want City to be successful this season act now and strengthen our squad. Otherwise crowds will dwindle, members won't re-sign and we will just be a filler team in the comp, there soley to enable a derby in Melbourne ...

[Defibrillator]

Just home myself and for first time I'm actually fuming. Every problem with this club was highlighted and brutally exposed in 45 minutes of pure horror capped of by the ground announcer introducing the attendance with "ladies and gentlemen and melbourne City". The smugness of these pricks shits me to tears.

1. We have the worst goalkeeper in the league. Well acknowledged on this forum but again exposed for poor positioning and handling. He certainly doesn't command the box, doesn't communicate well with his CBs and is indecisive.

2. Ramsay - need I say more. An obvious tactical shift in the second half was to sit Barbarousos on the line, drag our defence centrally and then play to him so he was one v one with Ramsay. It was embarrassing how bad he was in defending. Add to this as a fullback there are times you need a weak sided touch to hit a target, yet his right footed skills were really poor giving the ball away twice in the first half alone. He is so far off the mark its an obvious channel to goal that was exploited brutally. There simply has to be someone better in the squad.

3. No penetration in midfield. Mooy pushed and I love his mongrel, but he's alone.

4. Unfit players. Will Paartalu ever see out a full game? At 55 minutes we looked spent. Unbelievable.

5. Injured marquees and injured visa players. When you look at our bench this seriously screwed us over. Can we recruit some quality that at least has some resilience and reliability? These are meant to be the cream of the squad, but we can't get them out there. Add to this a loan player who wouldn't work, what are we recruiting and will this ever change?

6. JVS had a bad night and as mentioned above, the number of games without a win is climbing. Retre to AM whilst pushing the only guy creating scoring options further back down the park smacked of putting up the white flag (and again Mooy looked pissed off). We didn't chase the game. Why not take off Ramsay like last week and play a back three? Why not motivate these guys to have a dip? Conceding a goal in 25 seconds after half time doesn't reflect well on the coach - what frame of mind did he send them out with?

7. Impotence up front. Two goals from two defenders, opportunities not completed, same old, same old.

8. Squad depth. As above the bench, but recycling lower tier club rejects is clearly failing. I simply had to laugh at Brown's penalty - the inept nature of it was comical in how bad it was.

9. Passion and effort. It's obvious really to see someone having a go and caring. You only need to look at someone like Duff who's come from a culture of excellence. I just don't see it widely and this is a huge cultural issue with our club. At least show us you give a fuck - far too many passengers.

The only reassurance I got from the night was talking on the train on the way up to a rusted on Man City fan. He said the project will be a success - Man City don't tolerate mediocrity and will build diligently and slowly. I'm sure they'll be reaching for the broom unless there is a turnaround soon.

Edited October 25, 2014 by Defibrillator

[Ando]

The possibility of there being 11,000 odd members signed up, but only 6,500 turning up to games. Imagen. 

[Murfy1]

Agree with the consensus. Not good enough, and there's simply no way to put positive spin on it.

 

A team can't concede 5 and expect to get anything out of a match. So why is the team so defensively poor?

 

Opinions will differ on how the team can put in a performance like that. This is my opinion:

 

The team is too weak in defence, lacking quality defenders, which is why Ramsay, Hoffman and Redmayne can start and play 90 minutes in an important game like this one. The team was absolutely killed down the flanks in this game, often with Ramsay & Hoffman being completely missing when victory attacked down the flanks.

I agree with jw1739 that if you compared the matchday squads, you couldn't have been too hopeful for this match (in part, our injuries explain this. Koren and Williams, and maybe Germano and Garuccio in for Hoffman and Ramsay, would strengthen the squad. But these outs just expose how seriously lacking in depth the team is). First Aloisi and co. need to accept blame for this squad, as Ramsay was signed for 2 years by JA to be a LB (and Behich was the only other LB, and he only came in on a 1 season loan), and JA opted to play with no proven RB and instead turn Hoffman (previously a striker, previously a midfielder) and play him at RB. Ditto the GK situation, with JA signing Redmayne till 2016 after he played half a season alright (after JA suddenly dropped Bolton mid-way through the 2012-13 season).

 

I also fully agree that it's been surprising that CFG, will all their scouts and all their resources, couldn't at least sign another useful player or 2. How on earth have Melbourne City, with it's resources, signed the fewest players out of any A-League team? How come no Australian marquee was signed up by the start of the season (as if we could get by without 1 out of the 2 marquees for most of the season)? And could CFG seriously not scour the earth to come up with 1 cheap but useful international player (such as a cheap Visa LB)?

 

And besides the squad quality issue, I think there's a 'cultural' issue to a degree. The team doesn't have the habit of winning, the habit of dominating matches, and of winning matches it should win (like the home match last week against Newcastle). No team should give up 2 leads in one game, and then go on to lose (esp. by 3 goals). Further, that the team crumbled when we fell behind for the first time just shows that there's a lack of winning attitude in the players (esp. when the likes of Villa is in your team, there's no reason for a player to drop his head). The lack of quality I probably consider to be a more dire problem (pretty much every goal we conceded was fairly cheap IMO), and conceding 20 seconds into the second half came from very sloppy defending in my view (one error being RB Hoffman was no where near the RB position 20 secs into the half), but still the culture issue is there, and it combined poisonously with the team's lack of defensive quality (or, to use a more accurate term, competence).

 

 

A painful night on top of a painful week. Pressure should be on everyone at the club IMO. And hopefully this match serves as a loud wakeup call, and gives everyone an almighty kick up the arse, because things are falling way short of the standards and the promises made by City.

Edited October 25, 2014 by Murfy1

[KSK_47]

Not good enough, and there's simply no way to put positive spin on it.

 

 

 

When even Murf cant put a positive spin on things, you know you are in deep shit!

[strider]

But... we created chances

[RedAndWhitePride]

James Brown is Ramsay/Hoffman bad.

That's all I'll say for now.

[Ando]

KILL BLUEY. 

[interstatefan]

Haven't seen a second of the match, was at a work function all night, but 5-2 ffffaaarrrkkk sake

[Captain Obvious]

Excellent first half, was stumped at how we went in level. 2nd half we played with 10 men, Villa didn't put a shift in, didn't track back, avoided physical contact, a performance that really made me feel let down as a supporter who has been a member since day one, I can excuse a player who lacks quality if they bust a gut, but lacking effort? Not good enough. Ramsey cops a brunt of the blame and i'll say hes never a left back in a million years, but Villa really should have supported him in his role of left winger and he didn't do so. Also have to question Dugandzic playing upfront, just not dynamic enough or strong enough to play central in a front 3. A really dissapointing second half tonight. But i'll stay positive and hope for better next week and for the next time we play them aswell.

[NewConvert]

Just had a look at the team list specifically to check on the visa players:

Wieleart: Contract finishes at season's end. At least he has been available

Germano: Contract finishes at season's end. Has rarely seen the pitch and appears to be injury prone. Cut. ASAP - offer his kids some megacontract building sand castles and terminate the playing contract by mutual consent. Please.

Duff: Fit and able. Contract finishes at season's end. Best of the visa players. I wish his attitude and hunger would rub off onto the other players.

Koren: Marquee player. Injured. Two season contract. Right now feels like a lead weight.

Villa: On loan. Contract could finish as early as the week after next. I am not sure whether this counts as a visa spot or not. If the answer is yes, well at least this spot will become vacant within 10 matches at the latest. If not then there is a spare visa spot.

 

For those arguing that CFG should have scouted for one more player, well they only had three spots to fill. Duff has been great, Villa had raised expectations and Koren is meant to be very good but got injured. I really can't see how they could have done better. If the loan spot is not counted as a visa spot then the club should push hard for a LB from either Man City or Yokohama Falcons.

 

As for the Australian Marquee, speculation has been rife that the spot is being kept open for Kennedy or Bresciano.

 

the local boys? I need more time to think through this.

[Jovan]

Truly horrific night. What's the most annoying thing the tards look like having a squad that will go all the way. The few things got me through the dark Heart days was that the tards were just as shit.

We were never in the game, yes we in a 2:2 at the break but both our goals came from Coe's ineptitude. All our problems have been well and truly stated previously before but what concerns me is what do we do going forward.

Does the club stick with the plans it's made for this season including player and coaching positions?

Or does it realise things are so dire thing must change?

We have Adelaide and Roar to come, as I have stated previously we finish the Roar game with 2 points and possibly the season shot what is CFG going to do?

The 5k new or returned members (assuming we get 12k by seasons end) will go as soon as they came, all we will be better off from last season is that we will have a nice playing field to pretend we are a good team, and somewhere fancy to go in the off season.

If things don't drastically change in the next 4 weeks were fucked!!!!!!!

[HEARTinator]

Starting line-up last night

Us

Redmanyne

Hoffman-Wielaert-Kisnorbo-Ramsay

Paartalu

Mooy-Murdocca

Duff-Villa-Dugandzic


Visitors

Coe

Galloway-Delpierre-Leijer-Georgievski

Milligan-Finkler-Valeri

Barbarouses-Berisha-Thompson


Comparison

Coe VERSUS Redders

Hoffman-Wielaert-Kisnorbo-Ramsay VERSUS Galloway-Delpierre-Leijer-Georgievski

Paartalu-Mooy-Murdocca VERSUS Milligan-Finkler-Valeri

Duff-Villa-Dugandzic VERSUS Barbarouses-Berisha-Thompson


Bench

MV: Thomas (GK), Mahazi, Broxham, Nabbout, Khalfallah (Very strong bench IMO)
MC: Velaphi (GK), Brown, Retre, Melling, Archibald


In a nut shell, and apart from maybe Mooy and Duff, hard to find one of our players that would make it into the starting line-up/bench for the Visitors.

[Cinnamon]

Has the player of the match poll been scrapped for this round? Makes sense if so

[Kiro Kompiro]

Three games in a row we run out of steam round 55-60 minutes.  This is because of the insane intensity we put in pressing in the first half.  No team can do that for 90 minutes.  The pressing has to be managed by periods of solid defensive organisation.  Whose job is it to teach them that.

[drewmelbcity]

Not sure what everyone thinks of partalu but I think he's been average so far. Prefer kalmar

Lol you must be kalmar himself with a comment like that. Paartalu has been not bad but obviously players are going to be easy targets when your losing 5 to 2. I'm sorry but kalmar is useless and obviously jvs doesn't rate him Paulo retre is getting a game ahead of him.

[belaguttman]

 

 

 

Please don't swear at our club. Swear at the players, coaches, owners, etc. But don't say stuf like Fuck off city.

Personnel wise we are crap in a few positiond and I wonder what it will take for JVS to be sacked.

Even if JVS was sacked tomorrow we'd be just as crap in exactly the same positions and have the same weak links.

But it's JVS that saw these weak links when he took over last season and didn't say "that needs fixing"

 

 

Some of these guys have contracts that run for this season.

 

Unlike the Visitors' Allsop, none of these C*nts will terminate by "mutual" consent.

 

Allsop suddenly 'retired' as the visitors were going to trade him to Phoenix and he didn't want to go there. Nobody will want our deadwood.

[MHFCROB24]

Not sure what everyone thinks of partalu but I think he's been average so far. Prefer kalmar

Lol you must be kalmar himself with a comment like that. Paartalu has been not bad but obviously players are going to be easy targets when your losing 5 to 2. I'm sorry but kalmar is useless and obviously jvs doesn't rate him Paulo retre is getting a game ahead of him. Seems to be adjusting after his trip to Asia. Give him time to hit his peak form again. Hasn't done to much wrong.

[belaguttman]

Patrol has been physically and mentally wrecked by his 'training' in Thailand. It'll take him time to find some form here.

[MHFCROB24]

Patrol has been physically and mentally wrecked by his 'training' in Thailand. It'll take him time to find some form here.

Glad we signed him for a few years. Blokes cooked from Thailand. He will come good thou.

[drewmelbcity]

I actually found a positive from the match because of the amount of people going to the derby I had to park just next to north Melbourne station and as I was walking to the ground I could hear the melburnians from north Melbourne station. Sounded awesome well done boys loud and proud.

[Shahanga]

Quite simply completely and utterly unacceptable

Come Monday get em out doing hill sprints

We are playing a good side next Friday, if we play for 35 minutes AGAIN we'll get another pasting

The Coach needs to draw a line in the sand

[Alexxxandro]

First Aloisi and co. need to accept blame for this squad,

 

...

 

JA opted to play with no proven RB and instead turn Hoffman (previously a striker, previously a midfielder) and play him at RB. 

And JVS opted to re-sign him and use him in that position. 

[hyperfuzz]

On a side note, the Victory match day experience was fucking painful. Pre-fab crowd noise in the player introductions? The logo shattering glass? Tacky, tacky, tacky.

[jw1739]

Starting line-up last night

Us

Redmanyne

Hoffman-Wielaert-Kisnorbo-Ramsay

Paartalu

Mooy-Murdocca

Duff-Villa-Dugandzic

Visitors

Coe

Galloway-Delpierre-Leijer-Georgievski

Milligan-Finkler-Valeri

Barbarouses-Berisha-Thompson

Comparison

Coe VERSUS Redders

Hoffman-Wielaert-Kisnorbo-Ramsay VERSUS Galloway-Delpierre-Leijer-Georgievski

Paartalu-Mooy-Murdocca VERSUS Milligan-Finkler-Valeri

Duff-Villa-Dugandzic VERSUS Barbarouses-Berisha-Thompson

Bench

MV: Thomas (GK), Mahazi, Broxham, Nabbout, Khalfallah (Very strong bench IMO)

MC: Velaphi (GK), Brown, Retre, Melling, Archibald

In a nut shell, and apart from maybe Mooy and Duff, hard to find one of our players that would make it into the starting line-up/bench for the Visitors.

We might also ask how the hell the Visitors can assemble that squad within the salary restrictions. We ought to have a lot of money left or we are paying some of our lesser players far too much and well above what they are worth.

[Cinnamon]

It is staggering that we enter a season with 4 listed defenders and only 2 of them are not played out of position to make that list of 4. So technically we have 2 defenders on our books to play in a 4-3-3 structure. Not sure basic maths is jvs' strong suit

[Cinnamon]

On a side note, the Victory match day experience was fucking painful. Pre-fab crowd noise in the player introductions? The logo shattering glass? Tacky, tacky, tacky.

Felt like I was at the nrl in the 90s, cringeworthy at best

[CityHeart]

what a night of two halves - very frustrated and pi$$ed off this morning.

 

But - I thought our first half was a step forward - played well and the victard fans in my group were actually commenting at half time that it was definitely coming together for City - gonna take months if not seasons to get it finished - but we deserved to go into half time at least a goal up. at least.

 

Conceding goals a minute on each side of half time was a disaster, and probably mentally got us as much as physically. We were a shadow of ourselves from then on - a truly disappointing second half with zero creativity and it all came apart at the seems.

 

Having said that - we scored 2 goals without Villa scoring - of their 5! - their first was offisde, third was a lucky deflection after poor defending and we conceded one of the worst penalties you will ever see, comicly bad defending not the decision, after just as bad defending in not clearing that beforehand.

 

We can and should learn and build from this. I think a target front-man is just what the doctor ordered for this season. We cant improve the individual defenders probably until next season unfortunately. 

[belaguttman]

On a side note, the Victory match day experience was fucking painful. Pre-fab crowd noise in the player introductions? The logo shattering glass? Tacky, tacky, tacky.

Yes, they've certainly refined the 'bogan ethic' in their match day experience although I did miss the Simpsons style half time 'entertainment'.

[Red or Dead]

 

Not sure what everyone thinks of partalu but I think he's been average so far. Prefer kalmar

Lol you must be kalmar himself with a comment like that. Paartalu has been not bad but obviously players are going to be easy targets when your losing 5 to 2. I'm sorry but kalmar is useless and obviously jvs doesn't rate him Paulo retre is getting a game ahead of him.

Yet he rates Ramsay as a left back

[Swiss Toni]

No positives last night . In fact found the whole thing quite depressing. The fan base is a circus with arguments before a ball was kicked between heart fans and a shower of Manks singing blue moon. The disrespect shown to the heart from shitey fans is remarkable. They have no place in this club.