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The JvS thread


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Interview with JVS on foxsports. Most of it just same old answers, but I liked his response in regards to Heart's mentality. Dunno how to get rid of grey background sorry.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/melbourne-city-coach-john-vant-schip-qa-just-how-good-can-aaron-mooy-be-this-year/story-e6frf423-1227559425946

MATT WINDLEY: We may as well start where you guys left off against Heidelberg last week. Aaron Mooy, he looks as if he’s going to go to another level. Just how good can he be?

JOHN VAN’T SCHIP: Aaron has put in the effort and is continuing what he did last year. Of course, his confidence has grown, his call-up for the Socceroos really gave him another boost of confidence as well. We’re just happy that he’s continuing on.

I don’t think he’s thinking too much about that, he just continues to play his game and we’re trying to facilitate everything for him and for all the players to make sure that we can take the next step. Of course, yeah, he showed that he’s an important player for our team and hopefully he can show that this year as well.

 

We all know that the expectations are going to be higher for him because everybody is expecting more things, as your question (insinuates), but we’re calm, we don’t expect him to do miracles in every game. He just needs to play his game, that’s why we have him here, and hopefully he can have a great season like he did last year. I’m not going to put any expectations on top of that because he’s already doing that for himself.

MW: Did you, in your heart of hearts, think that you’d still have him this season?

JVS: Yes, because I knew that Aaron is very happy here. I also knew that the club had done everything to keep him here. I wanted to have him here, he’s important for the group, the boys know that and he fits very well in to the dressing room. I think that’s also what he thought. It’s a very important step for him now. He feels good, he’s playing well in the way that he likes to — you don’t know what happens if he goes to a new club and maybe gets a bit more money but maybe goes to a country that’s totally out of the picture.

I think if there will be a move (away) in the future — and this counts not only for him but other players — we’re always going to be there to help and discuss and see what we can do, but otherwise we’re also strong as a club now that we can try to help them and see what we can do to keep them here as well.

MW: To bring someone else in to the conversation, Aaron’s partnership with Robbie Koren looks like it could be producing some pretty good results. Are you happy with what you’ve seen from that so far?

JVS: Robbie Koren has been really good all pre-season. His fitness was a bit of a problem last season when he broke down just before the league started and he had to catch up with that during the league. He had a season that was a bit up and down, but you can see now, clearly, he’s fit, he’s eager, he’s hungry and the relationship with Aaron and Bruno (Fornaroli) is working in a good way.

They’re working hard for each other, they’re giving the balls to each other. Robbie, of course, is a very important player because with his experience and the position he’s playing he’s showing that he’s a real leader on the field and hopefully he can continue with what he’s showing at this moment.

MW: So you’re confident that Melbourne City fans will definitely see the best of Robbie this season?

JVS: We all know that Robbie had not an easy year last year and he knows that for himself first of all. But we also know that there were some reasons for that. Now though, looking at him, he’s very eager to show that he’s here to win prizes and we’re happy with that.

MW: We could spend hours talking about all of your new players, so I won’t talk about each individually, but it has been a big turnover during the off-season. So are you 100 per cent happy with the off-season changes and therefore happy with the squad you’ve been able to put together for the new season?

JVS: To be honest, if you look at the team in the FFA Cup game (against Heidelberg) I think there was only one new player, Bruno, in the line-up. Maybe a lot of people forget that of the players that we brought in.

But yes, it was more that we wanted a change of energy. We wanted a change of the dressing room and getting players that we hope, and we know, are winners and that can help the team grow. With that we also know that the competition is going to be very high. Against Heidelberg, Corey Gameiro wasn’t even playing, Harry Novillo wasn’t playing, Thomas Sorensen wasn’t playing, Ivan Franjic, Michael Zullo weren’t playing, all for different reasons. But when we have everybody back in a proper condition then of course the competition (for spots) is really on and that’s only going to make us stronger.

We’ll need every player this year and also their role outside the pitch is where we’re looking at because we want to have a good group, a good energy, winners, and knowing that we’re here not just to enjoy the new facilities, no, we want to win prizes. That’s one of the things that we looked at and knew we had to change with players coming off contract.

MW: All those players you talk about coming in, is there a risk that in the first couple of months we’ll see a bit of inconsistency as the players continue to get used to one another?

JVS: The competition is long. Of course we want to start well and it’s not going to be easy looking at the first two games and playing against the two grand finalists from last season. But we just have to be there from the start knowing that the competition is long and we’re going to be very competitive over the whole year.

Again, what I said, we have a team that is big, a squad that is strong and the players that are going to be on the pitch — wherever they are going to be playing — are at that moment the players that we think deserve to play for different reasons and they have to perform.

MW: How would you describe your feelings at the moment in regards to your injury list?

JVS: It’s something that we’ve already been dealing with for a long period, so we’re not panicking. We know that we have very good players coming through and they’ve shown that already, like Wade Dekker coming in and scoring goals, Hernan Espindola from our youth team playing and doing well, Stefan Zinni had a good impact on the game against Wellington, so we have a few young players that can fill in positions.

Then of course we’ve got the players who have been with us and have grown another year like Connor Chapman, Stefan Mauk, Jacob Melling who’s on his way back, Benny Garuccio who is making a good impression and hopefully will return back soon. So I think all in all that we just have to make sure that everyone comes together and in the meantime the players that are available do a good job.

MW: It’s natural to use the previous season’s champions as a yardstick. It seemed as if Melbourne Victory last season had two players for every position. Do you feel as if you’re getting to that point? That you’ve got a depth that this club hasn’t really had before?

JVS: We clearly looked at that. If you just look at the names then I think there is competition in every position and I think that’s good. Now it’s up to the players themselves to make sure that they’re up to it, that they’re fit and that they deal with that kind of competition because for the coaches it’s observing, looking at what is the best combinations.

Sometimes it might not be who is, in the minds of some, the best player who plays but the best combination that is going to be playing. We’ll always have a good competition and knowing that it’s close, it’s not said that every time we’re going to have the same team, it will just depend on how things go. There’s still a lot of thinking and work to be done, but that’s also good.

MW: To individualise once more. Did you have any reservations using a visa spot on a goalkeeper, Thomas Sorensen?

JVS: Thomas is very important. He’s very influential in the dressing room, the players have immense respect for him and he brings in a good standard both on the pitch and off the pitch. That was also one of the things that we were looking for, to get that standard not just on the pitch but in general around the whole club we wanted to take it to a different level. He’s one of the players who is surely going to be a big factor in helping.

MW: You spoke before about wanting to change the ‘energy’. Melbourne Heart, as it was known, didn’t seem to have a winning culture such was its results. Is that what you are referring to?

JVS: One of the things that you are looking at is that you can make each other better. You want players that can help other players grow to a different level. That can be done in different ways, that can be done on the pitch, that can be done in the dressing room, that can be done in the dining room. Those are the things that we were saying that, yeah, there are too many players that are here for having a good time.

Yes, you should have a good time because that’s one of the things you become a footballer for, but there’s also the thing that this is a profession and it’s about being a professional and raising standards. I think that’s something that was not always what we liked and what we’ve seen until now there has been a massive change in that.

MW: You made the semi-finals last year, do you feel that is going to increase the expectation on you guys in that surely reaching that stage has to be the absolute minimum expectation this season?

JVS: I think that the most important thing for us this year, and I’ve said it a few times, is to be more consistent. We had a very up and down season last year and the consistency was a lot of the time the problem. In the playoffs it’s about winning that one final game, but during the season it’s about having a longer line of going steady towards the places that you want. That’s more important because if we have that then automatically the trust and the confidence in the team grows and it will help you in the long run getting success.

That’s what we have to look for. In the end, of course, getting in to the playoffs is our first goal, and when we’re in the playoffs it’s about building that trust, that consistency, the confidence that’s going to help us hopefully getting in to the grand final and eventually winning the final. But we have to work hard to get our performances on a more regular, consistent basis.

MW: The City Football Group has been in for about 18 months now, you’ve been in the new training facility since February, you’ve got, on face value, the squad that you want. There really are no excuses this season are there? This is a massive year for the club on and off the pitch isn’t it?

JVS: Yes, it is. We want to, of course, go for the silverware and go for as much as possible. We’re making a good step now in the FFA Cup, you feel that there’s a good energy about that. The next step, of course, is the start of the A-League season and doing well in that also. We all know that there are no excuses. You can always find excuses but they don’t count because in the end you just have to perform and that’s what you want.

MW: You talk about there being no excuses, is that the same for those first two games? Both are tricky away games against the best two teams from last season, yet you also have to contend with a long injury list.

JVS: I’m not saying that we have to win both games. But what I am saying is that we’re ready and whatever team we put on to the pitch it will be competitive and will be ready to play Sydney and Melbourne Victory. We’re up to playing them. Looking further in to the season we’re only going to be stronger because we’re going to get a lot of players back and if you compare that to the other clubs I think that’s where we have a massive point of where we can make massive steps and improve.

We know that we have a small base at the moment, but with that small base we know we can perform and we’ve already shown that in the FFA Cup, we played Wellington, we played Heidelberg, so we’re up to playing those games. Yes, we have a small base, but it’s a good base and slowly the players are coming back so that’s only going to make us stronger.

Edited by bellydrum
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Thanks for that post. It is refreshing to hear the club finally saying the sorts of things that you have underlined. Admitting that you have, or have had, a problem is the first step to overcoming it, and from what we've seen so far there is a whole new energy about the club this season.

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I think most would agree finally we have a competitive list. That is if all players play to what they are capable off. We have enough depth to cover the normal weekly situation of injury suspension national duties. So all what remains is how these players will line up and what sort of mentality they will bring. This part lies soley with JVS. 

He has everything required to win a title or come bloody close so what I'm expecting as opposed to hoping is a totally different situation to last season. He was chasing his tail for most and in the end became quite reactive and very conservative. 

If he wants to go to the next level he needs to improve and become bold and fearless if not he will waste all the hard work that's been done.

Potentially it may be now with a competant playing list he may produce his best work.

 

Ball is well and truly in his court and the test begins over the next 3 games.

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If/when we win the league under JVS, will the JVS neigh-sayers response be that we won it despite the manager? 

If yes, then isn't it logical that we lost so many games despite the manager as well? 

I just find it interesting so many people sticking their necks out and being so assured that he is so bad when success, it feels, is just around the corner. When we are successful, I think it would be hyper-contradictory to relieve the impact of the manager, when it's completely the manager's fault when we lose.

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If/when we win the league under JVS, will the JVS neigh-sayers response be that we won it despite the manager? 

If yes, then isn't it logical that we lost so many games despite the manager as well? 

I just find it interesting so many people sticking their necks out and being so assured that he is so bad when success, it feels, is just around the corner. When we are successful, I think it would be hyper-contradictory to relieve the impact of the manager, when it's completely the manager's fault when we lose.

The problem is wth the quality of the list it really isn't going to mean much unless we win either the minor premiership or the grand final. Second or third is okay but it isnt success and given JVS' past record he should be moved on even if we are 2nd or 3rd. If it was a new manager I'd be for giving them another chance if we finished 2nd or 3rd, but JVS has had his chances.

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If/when we win the league under JVS, will the JVS neigh-sayers response be that we won it despite the manager? 

If yes, then isn't it logical that we lost so many games despite the manager as well? 

I just find it interesting so many people sticking their necks out and being so assured that he is so bad when success, it feels, is just around the corner. When we are successful, I think it would be hyper-contradictory to relieve the impact of the manager, when it's completely the manager's fault when we lose.

JVS had a pivotal role in developing the culture of the team and this has been an identified issue from Season 1. Of course for the same reason he also has the same influence in changing that culture. Some of his recruiting this season looks like it has been to specifically target that aspect of the team performance so this season will be a very good indication of whether he able to bring about the desired level of change. I personally doubt it but I really hope that I'm wrong.

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If/when we win the league under JVS, will the JVS neigh-sayers response be that we won it despite the manager? 

If yes, then isn't it logical that we lost so many games despite the manager as well? 

I just find it interesting so many people sticking their necks out and being so assured that he is so bad when success, it feels, is just around the corner. When we are successful, I think it would be hyper-contradictory to relieve the impact of the manager, when it's completely the manager's fault when we lose.

I don't see your logic there, Morphine.

In the sentence, "We won the league despite the manager", the implication is that we won, even though JVS is a poor coach.

If you were to reverse it with the implication being the same it would read, "We lost the league despite the manager". It now no longer makes sense, because it would be expected that the team does poorly with a poor manager.

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Let's look at the facts here. JvS is currently sitting on a win % of 32.35% - with 33 wins out of 102 A-League matches.

The two most successful of the current A-League managers are Graham Arnold (66/127 for 51.97%) and (dare I say it) Kevin Muscat (29/56 for 51.79%).

In the four seasons that we've been in the league where there have been just 27 matches, the winners have had 51, 57, 52, 53 points (average 53) and the fourth-placed team 40, 41, 41 and 46 points (average 42). Rounding things out you can expect to have to have the equivalent of 18 wins to be Premiers, and 14 wins to have a home final.

Manchester City has invested heavily into Melbourne City - including A$12m for the licence, A$15m for the CFA Academy, a significantly enhanced off-field complement of staff, almost a complete turnover of the playing group, and two lots of marquee wages over and above the salary cap limit. They have not done this to see us bumbling around in the bottom four of the league.

I would think that the absolute minimum required is for us to be comfortably in the top four at season's end, and I cannot see JVS' contract being extended if this is not achieved.

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I don't see your logic there, Morphine.

In the sentence, "We won the league despite the manager", the implication is that we won, even though JVS is a poor coach.

If you were to reverse it with the implication being the same it would read, "We lost the league despite the manager". It now no longer makes sense, because it would be expected that the team does poorly with a poor manager.

No.

I think it's really as simple as if you're going to blame the manager for failure, you should also be able to praise him for success.

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The problem is wth the quality of the list it really isn't going to mean much unless we win either the minor premiership or the grand final. Second or third is okay but it isnt success and given JVS' past record he should be moved on even if we are 2nd or 3rd. If it was a new manager I'd be for giving them another chance if we finished 2nd or 3rd, but JVS has had his chances.

I know that the goal this season is to win the FFA Cup, the premiership AND the grand final.

If we win nothing I'd say there is about 0% chance of JVS keeping his job.

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I think that we at least need to be in contention for top spots. We need to finish the season having played in either the FFA Final or the Grand Final, and have at least to be a genuine contender for the Premiership Plate. ACL contention requires at least one of the last 2 objectives

Edited by belaguttman
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I think that we at least need to be in contention for top spots. We need to finish the season having played in either the FFA Final or the Grand Final, and have at least to be a genuine contender for the Premiership Plate.

This is the thing right. I bloody hope we win one of the three. And if we do (which we are expected to), I'm very interested to see people's opinions of JVS. 

I'm genuinely not trying to be a smart arse, despite how easily that could come across. I just wonder now how JVS success is measured given our extra resources. Because if indeed he is at fault for the poor performances, he logically is in charge of the good ones. 

Will we see a lot of JVS converts? Or stubborn JVS haters? It's interesting and hard to see how tangible KPI's can be decided upon given that success in at least one competition is expected, and dare I say, likely.

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I think that we at least need to be in contention for top spots. We need to finish the season having played in either the FFA Final or the Grand Final, and have at least to be a genuine contender for the Premiership Plate. ACL contention requires at least one of the last 2 objectives

I tend to agree with this. No ACL qualification = no gig for JVS next season.

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Let's look at the facts here. JvS is currently sitting on a win % of 32.35% - with 33 wins out of 102 A-League matches.

The two most successful of the current A-League managers are Graham Arnold (66/127 for 51.97%) and (dare I say it) Kevin Muscat (29/56 for 51.79%).

Hold up, lets not look at facts and track records! We may have a good season and if we do he must be a great manager. Clearly he has just been pretending to be shit all this time to make it more exciting for us in his 4th season. I mean that must be it right?! And it must be a coincide that he finally showed us how good he is when City spent huge sums of money on squads, support staff, etc.

I have said many times if we play exciting football and win silverware i dont care who is calling the shots. But i have seen more than enough of JVS to know he is not a great manager.

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This is the thing right. I bloody hope we win one of the three. And if we do (which we are expected to), I'm very interested to see people's opinions of JVS. 

I'm genuinely not trying to be a smart arse, despite how easily that could come across. I just wonder now how JVS success is measured given our extra resources. Because if indeed he is at fault for the poor performances, he logically is in charge of the good ones. 

Will we see a lot of JVS converts? Or stubborn JVS haters? It's interesting and hard to see how tangible KPI's can be decided upon given that success in at least one competition is expected, and dare I say, likely.

IMO even with the best players and resources credit is still due when a title is won. Especially in the A-League when no team is far ahead of the others. So winning the grand final or the league is above par and some credit is due. Finishing 2nd or 3rd in the league is par if you ask me, and like I said in my previous post, i'd be willing to give another manager another chance for that par finish, but JVS I wouldn't because he has had his chances.

Also I don't particularly rate winning the FFA Cup TBH, though it would be nice, it's not really going to affect what I've said (unless we come really close to the other two titles like finishing 2nd in the league and losing the grand final).

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IMO even with the best players and resources credit is still due when a title is won. Especially in the A-League when no team is far ahead of the others. So winning the grand final or the league is above par and some credit is due. Finishing 2nd or 3rd in the league is par if you ask me, and like I said in my previous post, i'd be willing to give another manager another chance for that par finish, but JVS I wouldn't because he has had his chances.

Also I don't particularly rate winning the FFA Cup TBH, though it would be nice, it's not really going to affect what I've said (unless we come really close to the other two titles like finishing 2nd in the league and losing the grand final).

Would you rate it if we won it against MV?

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The issue of a good manager is much more nuanced than just they are good or shit. Point and case is David Moyes. Did great things for Everton for years. They were competitive week in week out on a low budget. Turns up at United and puts in a shocker. So is he a good manager or a bad manager? Mourinho won the league last year and the same side are struggling this year. So is he good or shit? So much comes down to situation. The strength of the competition for example, back room staff, player attitude, facilities and of course investment from owners. 

 

Looking at the club from startup until now and the club was doomed to do poorly with the way it was run previous (Munt and JD are also a large part of this). Very few coaches could have made a decent hand of it. That is to say JVS was not the correct coach for the club at that time. If he is the correct coach for now only time will tell.

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The issue of a good manager is much more nuanced than just they are good or shit. Point and case is David Moyes. Did great things for Everton for years. They were competitive week in week out on a low budget. Turns up at United and puts in a shocker. So is he a good manager or a bad manager? Mourinho won the league last year and the same side are struggling this year. So is he good or shit? So much comes down to situation. The strength of the competition for example, back room staff, player attitude, facilities and of course investment from owners. 

 

Looking at the club from startup until now and the club was doomed to do poorly with the way it was run previous (Munt and JD are also a large part of this). Very few coaches could have made a decent hand of it. That is to say JVS was not the correct coach for the club at that time. If he is the correct coach for now only time will tell.

As an Everton fan I can be strongly argued he held us back from ever achieving anything as well though.

Wins against the 'Sky Four' as it was in that period were just about non existent, whereas when Roberto came in we were able to beat those sides almost straight away.

Biggest problem we've had under Martinez has been against the minnows, not the best sides.

 

On Moyes, good manager and ideal for a team that needs to punch above its weight, but very one dimensional and probably not capable of winning silverware.

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JVS can only be judged on his record and not what might be. He has been given this season to prove he is capable of improving the team. For me he needs to either finish top 2 in the League,  make the grand final and hopefully win it,  or finish with a 55%+ winning record  (including FFA cup games).

If not then we need to bring in someone new. 

It's going to be a long season and lots of twists and turns but I'm super hopeful we will have our best season yet.

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As an Everton fan I can be strongly argued he held us back from ever achieving anything as well though.

Wins against the 'Sky Four' as it was in that period were just about non existent, whereas when Roberto came in we were able to beat those sides almost straight away.

Biggest problem we've had under Martinez has been against the minnows, not the best sides.

 

On Moyes, good manager and ideal for a team that needs to punch above its weight, but very one dimensional and probably not capable of winning silverware.

Fair call. I thinks it's fair to say that JVS record hasn't stacked up in the past and if he can't bring it together this season he will be out the door quickly. However I'll be more than happy to give him kudos if he turns this team into champs. Like KSK said I don't really mind who the coach is as long as we playing attacking winning football.

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As an Everton fan I can be strongly argued he held us back from ever achieving anything as well though.

Wins against the 'Sky Four' as it was in that period were just about non existent, whereas when Roberto came in we were able to beat those sides almost straight away.

Biggest problem we've had under Martinez has been against the minnows, not the best sides.

 

On Moyes, good manager and ideal for a team that needs to punch above its weight, but very one dimensional and probably not capable of winning silverware.

beat me to it. Moyes stagnated Everton. He should of built on those first few good seasons. Everton should be consistently challenging the top 4

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What shoe string budget? Is this just something we say because we were so shit. Every club has a minimum salary spend, and while I concede that we didn't have a proper marquee until Engelaar, it was poor recruitment over and over and a coach that couldn't make it work that cost us. 

 

Edited by n i k o
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What shoe string budget? Is this just something we say because we were so shit. Every club has a minimum salary spend, and while I concede that we didn't have a proper marquee until Engelaar, it was poor recruitment over and over and a coach that couldn't make it work that cost us. 

 

Recruitment wise perhaps you should consider that season1 was the start up season. Season 2 was definitely a JVS season and season 3 mostly a JVS season. Season 4 was an Alosi season as was season 5. Season 6 was a combined JVS and Aloisi season.

Starting at season 1, JVS was unfamiliar with local players/conditions - hence I did not have high expectations. Indeed I still wonder whether we have the actual number of local players capable of playing in the top tier competition (I have the same doubts about the AFL after the introduction of GWS and GCS). None the less although JVS should be held responsible for the season's results, I am not going to be too hard on him. Now I realise that some people will point at WSW as a success story in its first season but the FFA changed things after the failures of NQF, the Gold Coast, the Auckland team and the none event that was Heart.

Season 2 was definitely a better season and the club reached its highest position on the ladder at second spot before the team was deflated. It was also the time when JVS called it quits because the owners had not come through with what ever promises. Now Aloisi was an assistant at that stage and he would have had an input into recruitment for season 3.

Seasons 3, 4 and 5 were a JA season that I need not recap.

Last season the club turned over half of the playing list. Out of the new signings Koren has been the big flop. The re-signings of DW and JH (who is no longer at the club) can be questioned. This coming season the only player that remain from Heart days is DW. Signed prior to the CFG take over were Mooy and James Brown. I expect the latter to be gone at season's end as he has barely played due to injury.

Poor recruitment is definitely a key factor but like any club if you are close to the floor of the player payments you are not going to get too much quality. The exception all along has been CCM under GA. Not exciting football but it was certainly effective. And I still wonder whether the country has enough quality players to sustain a healthy competition.

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In fact JvS has had a strong influence on every season since the club was formed. S1 and S2 obviously he had chosen the squad and coached it, and S3 was clearly a legacy season with those players continuing on from S2. Also he was appointed Technical Manager at some point in S3 or S4 (I can't remember exactly when that was now). He took over as coach when Aloisi was sacked at Christmas in S4 and has been in that position ever since.

 

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