The JvS thread

[AzureKingfisher]

It wasn't the result on Saturday night that drove me mental. Disappointing results are bound to happen throughout a season, even against your arch rivals. A 3-0 defeat is always difficult to take, but it was the manner of it that really made me feel sick.

 

It's the first time ever, in the three seasons of being a member, that I've left a game early.

 

What frustrated me most was that, from the first whistle, we weren't in it and didn't even look like we wanted it. You could see that all over the pitch.

 

Exhibit A: Ramsay offside from a Kisnorbo free kick deep inside our own half - HOW DOES THAT EVEN HAPPEN? How hard is it to look across your line and make sure you aren't standing in front of all the defenders? This is professional football remember. Ramsey mate, when you're low on confidence, not performing and you're (miraculously) still fighting to keep your place in the team, at least try! If he were busting his guts to get involved in the play, pretending (at least!) to strike the ball with conviction when shooting, and helping defensively in some way he wouldn't be cheered off during a substitution by his own fans. I know we were getting plenty of stick for doing that last week, but if a player looks like he doesn't really care and starts sulking about it, what do they expect?

 

Exhibit B: Van Schip starting a new player, who obviously had no chemistry with his new team-mates, in the position where chemistry is more important than anywhere else on the park? + the fact it isn't even his natural position? Replay of that first goal, please? Enough said.

 

Exhibit C: Aaron Mooy. Somehow, his outstanding performances are causing a little suffering to City fans like myself. Why? Because they persistently highlight how little effort many of his team-mates are putting in. On Saturday, Mooy was running around the pitch, chasing balls he had nearly no chance of getting, and desperately finding space to get himself on the ball as much as possible. And his team-mates? Well, Duff perhaps aside, pretty much doing stuff all. How many times did we see Duff or Mooy with the ball, and nobody to pass to? It's disheartening when you bring paying friends or family to a game of football and your team doesn't even show up. 

 

The most worrying sign is a complete lack of any game plan for the players to work towards - and this is down to van Schip. Last season, Adelaide United came to the Etihad and lost 3-0 to Victory. But Adelaide actually impressed me on that day. Sure, they had Malik playing at CB for the first time and the players clearly had a lot of work to do in getting used to the system, but Gombau had a game-plan which everyone could see. You just knew it would work, eventually. The Adelaide fans knew, when they stood by Gombau despite going through one of the worst starts to a season in 2013-14. The Adelaide board knew, as did the pundits before this season started (they all said Adelaide would finish higher this season). Compare that to our 3-0 defeat...are we a defensive, organised team like Central Coast in years past? A counter-attacking team like Sydney? A team which presses high and attacks in numbers when appropriate, like Victory? A patient, possession-based team like Adelaide? Who knows? The players certainly don't. It's as though van Schip has stuck them in positions (not even necessarily their natural positions) and just said "you know what to do, enjoy yourselves". Logically, why would you play two wingers in Ramsay and Duff on the flanks to provide crosses when you don't have a target man or even a striker on the pitch?

 

I consider myself patient by nature but things really have to change. It has to start with getting a manager who knows his philosophy and knows how to teach a team to implement it. We've NEVER had one of those.

[johnno cpfc]

It wasn't the result on Saturday night that drove me mental. Disappointing results are bound to happen throughout a season, even against your arch rivals. A 3-0 defeat is always difficult to take, but it was the manner of it that really made me feel sick.

 

It's the first time ever, in the three seasons of being a member, that I've left a game early.

 

What frustrated me most was that, from the first whistle, we weren't in it and didn't even look like we wanted it. You could see that all over the pitch.

 

Exhibit A: Ramsay offside from a Kisnorbo free kick deep inside our own half - HOW DOES THAT EVEN HAPPEN? How hard is it to look across your line and make sure you aren't standing in front of all the defenders? This is professional football remember. Ramsey mate, when you're low on confidence, not performing and you're (miraculously) still fighting to keep your place in the team, at least try! If he were busting his guts to get involved in the play, pretending (at least!) to strike the ball with conviction when shooting, and helping defensively in some way he wouldn't be cheered off during a substitution by his own fans. I know we were getting plenty of stick for doing that last week, but if a player looks like he doesn't really care and starts sulking about it, what do they expect?

 

Exhibit B: Van Schip starting a new player, who obviously had no chemistry with his new team-mates, in the position where chemistry is more important than anywhere else on the park? + the fact it isn't even his natural position? Replay of that first goal, please? Enough said.

 

Exhibit C: Aaron Mooy. Somehow, his outstanding performances are causing a little suffering to City fans like myself. Why? Because they persistently highlight how little effort many of his team-mates are putting in. On Saturday, Mooy was running around the pitch, chasing balls he had nearly no chance of getting, and desperately finding space to get himself on the ball as much as possible. And his team-mates? Well, Duff perhaps aside, pretty much doing stuff all. How many times did we see Duff or Mooy with the ball, and nobody to pass to? It's disheartening when you bring paying friends or family to a game of football and your team doesn't even show up. 

 

The most worrying sign is a complete lack of any game plan for the players to work towards - and this is down to van Schip. Last season, Adelaide United came to the Etihad and lost 3-0 to Victory. But Adelaide actually impressed me on that day. Sure, they had Malik playing at CB for the first time and the players clearly had a lot of work to do in getting used to the system, but Gombau had a game-plan which everyone could see. You just knew it would work, eventually. The Adelaide fans knew, when they stood by Gombau despite going through one of the worst starts to a season in 2013-14. The Adelaide board knew, as did the pundits before this season started (they all said Adelaide would finish higher this season). Compare that to our 3-0 defeat...are we a defensive, organised team like Central Coast in years past? A counter-attacking team like Sydney? A team which presses high and attacks in numbers when appropriate, like Victory? A patient, possession-based team like Adelaide? Who knows? The players certainly don't. It's as though van Schip has stuck them in positions (not even necessarily their natural positions) and just said "you know what to do, enjoy yourselves". Logically, why would you play two wingers in Ramsay and Duff on the flanks to provide crosses when you don't have a target man or even a striker on the pitch?

 

I consider myself patient by nature but things really have to change. It has to start with getting a manager who knows his philosophy and knows how to teach a team to implement it. We've NEVER had one of those.

 This!!!

[HEARTinator]

The thing I hang on to is the hope that JVS gets shown the door at the end of the season and we have a cleanout of the coaching and playing roster. Therer's only so much people can take after following the club for 5 years.

[Jestr]

The thing I hang on to is the hope that JVS gets shown the door at the end of the season and we have a cleanout of the coaching and playing roster. Therer's only so much people can take after following the club for 5 years.

Wish it happened now so we don't waste next season putting half a team with new game plan in place

Sick of all this procrastinating.

[NewConvert]

The thing I hang on to is the hope that JVS gets shown the door at the end of the season and we have a cleanout of the coaching and playing roster. Therer's only so much people can take after following the club for 5 years.

We did that last season. AFAIK no coaches or support staff remains from the JA era - certainly no assistant coaches. JVS is a recycled coach and JD remains at the club. I can't see how these two can remain at the club after season's end but for the others I am willing to give them more time.

[Redwing]

Duff confirms he's leaving, and the puff goes out of City. The squad desperately needs a manager able to impart higher intensity, lack of complacency, and selfless humility in service of the team - won't ever happen under van 't Schip.

[Dylan]

What do you reckon after that Heart of Melbourne? Not having a go but you did say you knew someone in the club who said a loss this week would have been curtains.

[Tony999]

But that was a draw so safe until next week?

Edited February 14, 2015 by Tony999

[Dylan]

I ment it as in 'what does a draw do'

[silva10]

I will be amazed if he doesn't see the season through. Well at least until it is impossible for us to reach the finals. Equally I will be seething if he isn't sacked after the season has ended. 

[Victards]

fuck off already

[Kiro Kompiro]

i'm still dirty on how we re-signed the same guy who set up the culture, the playing style, the recruiting philosophy, yet expected a different outcome.

 

I'm also dirty that I'm still saying the same fucking thing since the first time he left.

 

Just move him on FFS.

[Melburnian]

The time is now to move him on.

I'm done. Nothing more to see here.

[FFC1996]

When is a ref going to tell that Musc@nt to shut the fuk up!

[FFC1996]

Sorry wrong thread!

[HEARTinator]

On ABC Offsiders this morning Gerard Whateley commented that Michael Cheika, Ange Postecoglou and Darren Lehmann have "the force of personality to get things done"

 

Apart from technical aspects of tactics and training, this is what JVS seems not to possess. Move on JVS please.

[Semper Cor]

Hyperbole aside, he does make a point, a point that has been apparent on this forum for a while, but an important point nonetheless. 

 

The ability of a manager to have strong convictions in what they’re doing and to get the players to buy into their vision and bring out the best in them needs to be greater than the quality of players you have at your disposal.  JvS doesn’t have this ability.

 

As we are aware the A-League will not for a while at least, have the players, developed or recruited, to play the football we all want.  Instead the ability for a manager to get his players to believe they’re world beaters can be an effective one, especially in the A-League.  For example I don’t particularly rate Kosta Barbarouses as a good player, but in the last couple of games he’s been influencing the play significantly for MV.

 

This is why I like Ange as coach.  I don’t particularly rate him as a very good strategist or tactician, but what he can do is bring out the best in his players.  As a result, his teams constantly look to take the game on instead of playing a risk-averse type of game City more often than not plays, hence the higher winning ratio.

 

The next manager CFG will be looking at for Melbourne City will no doubt have to instil the CFG playing philosophy but will also need to understand the Australian sporting psyche and bring out the best in his players, combining the two to achieve the results everyone’s looking for.  Is this maybe why Mulvey was over in Manchester?

[haz]

After just watching 25 minutes of Adelaide and Perth, it makes me realise how quiet and unpassionate JVS is compared to someone like Gombau. Coaches like Gombau, Lowe and even Muscunt jump out of their seats and swear or kick the ground if their team misses a sitter or fucks up. Whereas from what I've seen JVS barely blinks. He seems to have the same problem that Moyes had at Manchester United, is to quiet and doesn't motivate the players to do better. Also I believe that a passionate coach with a vision like Gombau would attract good players to the club (which he's done). JVS just seems like he's blazed on all that Dutch dope.

[belaguttman]

After just watching 25 minutes of Adelaide and Perth, it makes me realise how quiet and unpassionate JVS is compared to someone like Gombau. Coaches like Gombau, Lowe and even Muscunt jump out of their seats and swear or kick the ground if their team misses a sitter or fucks up. Whereas from what I've seen JVS barely blinks. He seems to have the same problem that Moyes had at Manchester United, is to quiet and doesn't motivate the players to do better. Also I believe that a passionate coach with a vision like Gombau would attract good players to the club (which he's done). JVS just seems like he's blazed on all that Dutch dope.

Merrick is like a stone statue but he still manages to motivate Wellington

Edited February 15, 2015 by belaguttman

[haz]

After just watching 25 minutes of Adelaide and Perth, it makes me realise how quiet and unpassionate JVS is compared to someone like Gombau. Coaches like Gombau, Lowe and even Muscunt jump out of their seats and swear or kick the ground if their team misses a sitter or fucks up. Whereas from what I've seen JVS barely blinks. He seems to have the same problem that Moyes had at Manchester United, is to quiet and doesn't motivate the players to do better. Also I believe that a passionate coach with a vision like Gombau would attract good players to the club (which he's done). JVS just seems like he's blazed on all that Dutch dope.

Merck is like a stone statue but he still manages to motivate Wellington

Merrick obviously does something better then

[belaguttman]

 

 

After just watching 25 minutes of Adelaide and Perth, it makes me realise how quiet and unpassionate JVS is compared to someone like Gombau. Coaches like Gombau, Lowe and even Muscunt jump out of their seats and swear or kick the ground if their team misses a sitter or fucks up. Whereas from what I've seen JVS barely blinks. He seems to have the same problem that Moyes had at Manchester United, is to quiet and doesn't motivate the players to do better. Also I believe that a passionate coach with a vision like Gombau would attract good players to the club (which he's done). JVS just seems like he's blazed on all that Dutch dope.

Merck is like a stone statue but he still manages to motivate Wellington

Merrick obviously does something better then

 

Merrick can coach and sell his style and tactics to his players

Edited February 15, 2015 by belaguttman

[haz]

After just watching 25 minutes of Adelaide and Perth, it makes me realise how quiet and unpassionate JVS is compared to someone like Gombau. Coaches like Gombau, Lowe and even Muscunt jump out of their seats and swear or kick the ground if their team misses a sitter or fucks up. Whereas from what I've seen JVS barely blinks. He seems to have the same problem that Moyes had at Manchester United, is to quiet and doesn't motivate the players to do better. Also I believe that a passionate coach with a vision like Gombau would attract good players to the club (which he's done). JVS just seems like he's blazed on all that Dutch dope.

Merck is like a stone statue but he still manages to motivate Wellington Merrick obviously does something better then

Merrick can coach and sell his style and tactics to his players

Totally agree

[HEARTinator]

Hyperbole aside, he does make a point, a point that has been apparent on this forum for a while, but an important point nonetheless. 

 

The ability of a manager to have strong convictions in what they’re doing and to get the players to buy into their vision and bring out the best in them needs to be greater than the quality of players you have at your disposal.  JvS doesn’t have this ability.

 

As we are aware the A-League will not for a while at least, have the players, developed or recruited, to play the football we all want.  Instead the ability for a manager to get his players to believe they’re world beaters can be an effective one, especially in the A-League.  For example I don’t particularly rate Kosta Barbarouses as a good player, but in the last couple of games he’s been influencing the play significantly for MV.

 

This is why I like Ange as coach.  I don’t particularly rate him as a very good strategist or tactician, but what he can do is bring out the best in his players.  As a result, his teams constantly look to take the game on instead of playing a risk-averse type of game City more often than not plays, hence the higher winning ratio.

 

The next manager CFG will be looking at for Melbourne City will no doubt have to instil the CFG playing philosophy but will also need to understand the Australian sporting psyche and bring out the best in his players, combining the two to achieve the results everyone’s looking for.  Is this maybe why Mulvey was over in Manchester?

Yes. Ange brought in Ante Milicic to help sort out the strategy and match day tactics.

[jw1739]

After just watching 25 minutes of Adelaide and Perth, it makes me realise how quiet and unpassionate JVS is compared to someone like Gombau. Coaches like Gombau, Lowe and even Muscunt jump out of their seats and swear or kick the ground if their team misses a sitter or fucks up. Whereas from what I've seen JVS barely blinks. He seems to have the same problem that Moyes had at Manchester United, is to quiet and doesn't motivate the players to do better. Also I believe that a passionate coach with a vision like Gombau would attract good players to the club (which he's done). JVS just seems like he's blazed on all that Dutch dope.

I'm not so concerned about that. I'm much more concerned with our apparent inability to sign a balanced squad, and to adequately manage our injuries. Also that some of our players seem to lack the very basics, meaning that we seemingly have only one player who can take a free-kick and a corner.

[cadete]

We would be bottom of the league if Corners did not exist,

 

Seriously if Corners were not apart of Soccer and the ball was returned into play another way we would be well and truly fucked.

[silverdust]

i cant wait to this thread is closed and just a distant memory. it better not go over 100 pages. if it does this club is truly fucked up. sack the coach now. 

[Pete Heartspur]

i cant wait to this thread is closed and just a distant memory. it better not go over 100 pages. if it does this club is truly fucked up. sack the coach now. 

[Heart of Melbourne]

Thursday 10am

[fortheloveofthegame]

fingers crossed

[stewmac]

Problem is which Thursday !

[Red or Dead]

Lose to Perth and Adelaide the next week and I'll be back the following home game (against Newcastle) with a "JvS Out" banner!

[kingofhearts]

Just about to turn things around. I can feel it.

[johnno cpfc]

Just about to turn things around. I can feel it.

I admire your optimism Kingofhearts but me thinks you are joshing lol.

[Dylan]

Media has turned against JVS this week.

[haz]

Media has turned against JVS this week.

Sources?

[Dylan]

Media has turned against JVS this week.

Sources?

The usual suspects have changed to saying that bris will make the 6 not us and that we seem to be going no where and that JVS has had a fair crack and that the CFG can be ruthless.

If you want a specific get the 'top of the league' podcast off ABC grandstand.

[kingofhearts]

 

Just about to turn things around. I can feel it.

I admire your optimism Kingofhearts but me thinks you are joshing lol.

 

Have to think positive mate, some people have money riding on his success!

[haz]

Media has turned against JVS this week.

Sources? The usual suspects have changed to saying that bris will make the 6 not us and that we seem to be going no where and that JVS has had a fair crack and that the CFG can be ruthless.

If you want a specific get the 'top of the league' podcast off ABC grandstand. Cheers I'll have a listen

Edit:

Yes! Finally people outside of the supporters recognise how JVS has gotten no where. It's good also that they regonise that Koren has been invisible the last couple games

Edited February 16, 2015 by haz

[Tesla]

Thursday is the 4 month anniversary of this thread being created. All signs point to a 10am announcement.

[n i k o]

In before Mike Mulvey is to finish his internship at Manchester City and be announced as interim coach for the remainder of the season. Announcement to be made at 10am either this Thursday, next Thursday or the Thursday after.

Edited February 16, 2015 by n i k o