Torn Asunder Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Gauntlets are being thrown down left right and center ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jovan Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 This well might be a defining moment for both Koren and JVS. On the optimistic side this could be the catalyst of a statement being made by a disillusioned player that has been given an ultimatum to perform and to spite everyone and prove his quality truly lifts and carries the team to a memorable victory or. It could be a final jab on his way out and will see him on the bench on Sunday if in the squad at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 If Koren stays I would hope him and Mooy workout who is going to do what in the midfield and try and make some kind of partnership. I still think it may work out as Mooys flaw is dwelling on the ball so hopefully Koren can fill that hole , but that article is pretty ominous....But agree with the above, clearly is gone. I know he hassnt shown much at all, but look where he has played all throughout his career, you dont have a long career like that if you have no ability. Besides, a few on here have seen him throughout his career and were vouching strongly for him. So I highly doubt Koren comming to a league so many levels below what he is used to and turning to shit is down to his ability as a player, something else is wrong. I still blame JVS, I can easily imagine Koren at another aleauge club tearing it apart. But still that article is very ominous.... "I highly doubt Koren comming to a league so many levels below what he is used to and turning to shit is down to his ability as a player, something else is wrong." That's the problem. You're underrating the A League. It is not "so many levels below" where Koren has played. Carl Valeri, who I prefer to pay attention to when looking at the standard of the A League, rated Melbourne Victory as a top Serie B, lower Serie A quality side. So Carl Valeri, who has recent playing experience in Italy, would obviously disagree with you and agree with me that Koren is NOT playing at "so many levels below" where he is used to playing. Anyhow, Mooy and Melling have shown themselves to be clearly better midfielders than Koren. It's not a good look when a player goes public and says the coach hasn't used him properly. I wonder if Koren has already been told that the City Group want a new foreign marquee for next season - and maybe with a bigger name as well to help attract the crowds. What? of course Valeri has to say things like that when he is playing here. Surely you take those kinds of comments with a grain of salt... Dont tell me you think that the standard of the Aleague is anywhere near the EPL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deviant Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Inb4 Chelsea lose to Sydney. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Inb4 Chelsea lose to Sydney. I wonder if Parrot will mention West ham losing to the Nix and Sydney? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattyd89 Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 yet you still have hope that he will come out firing coz you know it is there somewhere. Worst feeling! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Inb4 Chelsea lose to Sydney. I wonder if Parrot will mention West ham losing to the Nix and Sydney? Lol. Of course as you have a predetermined view, these games can only be lose - lose for A League teams. If the A League team wins it's because "it's only a practise game." If the A League team loses it's "I told you so. A League clubs are shit compared to these teams." It's nice and comfortable when no matter what the result YOU are right! rofl. I watch plenty of EPL and Championship games. The best A League clubs would comfortably match it with most Championship teams and with their best 11 be very competitive against the lower EPL teams. Send a team over to Perth in the heat and see what happens. I bet you for starters the pace of their game will be nothing like in England. The major issue of course apart from our pathetic salary cap is squad depth - another FFA mandated decision to stop clubs becoming too good by forcing them to have small squads which means injuries and plenty of games, not to mention our heat, can have a much bigger effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 This well might be a defining moment for both Koren and JVS. I say let them fight it out in Mexico. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 This well might be a defining moment for both Koren and JVS. I say let them fight it out in Mexico. ...a Mexican standoff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 (edited) I still think for a marquee he hasn't shown enough even though he's out of position, but to a degree he certainly has a point... “I don't complain, I came here to help the club. Definitely it was not good for me individually, I couldn’t show exactly what I am capable of doing, but I’m sure that if I was playing in the midfield the whole season definitely you can expect much more from me. “I’ve done my best, I’m trying my best, to help the club and the team and if the manager decides that I play in that position then I try my best.” I'm hanging out for a manager change at seasons end to make a certain decision in my mind whether he's worth keeping. However right now I wouldn't be disappointed in the slightest if he did leave either. Edited April 30, 2015 by n i k o 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murfy1 Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 (edited) If Koren stays I would hope him and Mooy workout who is going to do what in the midfield and try and make some kind of partnership. I still think it may work out as Mooys flaw is dwelling on the ball so hopefully Koren can fill that hole , but that article is pretty ominous....But agree with the above, clearly is gone. I know he hassnt shown much at all, but look where he has played all throughout his career, you dont have a long career like that if you have no ability. Besides, a few on here have seen him throughout his career and were vouching strongly for him. So I highly doubt Koren comming to a league so many levels below what he is used to and turning to shit is down to his ability as a player, something else is wrong. I still blame JVS, I can easily imagine Koren at another aleauge club tearing it apart. But still that article is very ominous.... "I highly doubt Koren comming to a league so many levels below what he is used to and turning to shit is down to his ability as a player, something else is wrong." That's the problem. You're underrating the A League. It is not "so many levels below" where Koren has played. Carl Valeri, who I prefer to pay attention to when looking at the standard of the A League, rated Melbourne Victory as a top Serie B, lower Serie A quality side. So Carl Valeri, who has recent playing experience in Italy, would obviously disagree with you and agree with me that Koren is NOT playing at "so many levels below" where he is used to playing. Anyhow, Mooy and Melling have shown themselves to be clearly better midfielders than Koren. It's not a good look when a player goes public and says the coach hasn't used him properly. I wonder if Koren has already been told that the City Group want a new foreign marquee for next season - and maybe with a bigger name as well to help attract the crowds. What? of course Valeri has to say things like that when he is playing here. Surely you take those kinds of comments with a grain of salt... Dont tell me you think that the standard of the Aleague is anywhere near the EPL I reckon too many people think of Koren as a 'Premier League player', when in fact he's definitely only a 'Championship level player'. Even commentators like Simon Hill have mistakenly said 'Koren has spent 7 years in the Premier League'. It's a myth that should be demolished. Koren did spend 7 years in England, but out of the 273 games Koren played in England only 57 of those games were in the EPL for Hull and West Brom (and he certainly didn't start and finish all of those games). Also, out of the approx 29 times Koren was benched in England, 25 of those games were in the EPL, with most of those benched games occurring last season (Koren was benched 24 times in his last season in England at Hull). So the Premier League was never really Koren's level, and Steve Bruce certainly didn't think the EPL was Koren's level last season. Hence Koren really hasn't had to 'step down' multiple levels, as out of the 17 or so seasons Koren has been a professional footballer, only 2 of those seasons were spent in the EPL, with the other 15 seasons comprising his career only being played in the Championship, the Norwegian 1st division (where Mifsud was once voted the best foreigner) and the Slovenian 1st division. At best Koren is, or was, a Championship level player. Multiple players who have played in the A-League in recent times have said the A-league is about, or near, Championship level (or at least could match it with some teams in the Championship), and even if there's a grain of salt to those statements I personally don't think they are far off the mark. The point being the A-league was never a massive step down for Koren, and maybe Koren's consistently been ineffective in the A-League because he hasn't given the league enough respect, and hasn't risen to the level required to play well in it. Whatever the case, I hope the club's next international marquee has performed at EPL level or Serie A level (like ADP), as signing up players from lesser levels, players such as Championship level Koren, is too much of a gamble with the club's precious international marquee spot. Edited April 30, 2015 by Murfy1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony999 Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Koren to score a brace against Wellington. Yeh you heard me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 It's interesting when you put it like that Murphy and you think that we had Duff under the cap, someone who was classed a top level EPL player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murfy1 Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 It's interesting when you put it like that Murphy and you think that we had Duff under the cap, someone who was classed a top level EPL player. That's why I was pretty surprised that the team managed to sign Duff under the cap. I guess his age and season ending injury last season helped lower his price, but reportedly Duff also just wanted a new experience in Australia or America with his family, and I reckon that was probably decisive in making Duff just fit under the cap. Another discussion, but over his 15 games this season I was fairly pleased with Duff's performances. He produced 1 goal and 5 assists over 15 games, whereas Koren has just managed 3 goals and 2 assists over 18 games. The fitness/injury concern with 35 year old Duff was pretty problematic though. Damien Duff a few years younger, or another proven EPL performer, is the level to aim at with marquees IMO (like with Lampard and Villa at NYCFC), and not lower level players like Koren. Hopefully Melbourne City sees more players like that in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silva10 Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Inb4 Chelsea lose to Sydney. I wonder if Parrot will mention West ham losing to the Nix and Sydney? Lol. Of course as you have a predetermined view, these games can only be lose - lose for A League teams. If the A League team wins it's because "it's only a practise game." If the A League team loses it's "I told you so. A League clubs are shit compared to these teams." It's nice and comfortable when no matter what the result YOU are right! rofl. I watch plenty of EPL and Championship games. The best A League clubs would comfortably match it with most Championship teams and with their best 11 be very competitive against the lower EPL teams. Send a team over to Perth in the heat and see what happens. I bet you for starters the pace of their game will be nothing like in England. The major issue of course apart from our pathetic salary cap is squad depth - another FFA mandated decision to stop clubs becoming too good by forcing them to have small squads which means injuries and plenty of games, not to mention our heat, can have a much bigger effect. I am sorry but you are wrong! Most A League teams would struggle in League 2 Of course there are players who could play higher, but the teams themselves would struggle. If you look at Tom Rogic, he has struggled at Celtic. The SPL is probably between Championship and League 1 level. Of course Rogic has had injuries, but before them he was struggling to make an impact at Celtic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deviant Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 These essays are the type of notifications that irritate me. CBF reading them yet I'm fucking getting notifications about them. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 For those saying we should give Koren a few games next year, just remember we won't be able to replace him as marquee if we do that. He's just a poor signing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 Inb4 Chelsea lose to Sydney. I wonder if Parrot will mention West ham losing to the Nix and Sydney? Lol. Of course as you have a predetermined view, these games can only be lose - lose for A League teams. If the A League team wins it's because "it's only a practise game." If the A League team loses it's "I told you so. A League clubs are shit compared to these teams." It's nice and comfortable when no matter what the result YOU are right! rofl. I watch plenty of EPL and Championship games. The best A League clubs would comfortably match it with most Championship teams and with their best 11 be very competitive against the lower EPL teams. Send a team over to Perth in the heat and see what happens. I bet you for starters the pace of their game will be nothing like in England. The major issue of course apart from our pathetic salary cap is squad depth - another FFA mandated decision to stop clubs becoming too good by forcing them to have small squads which means injuries and plenty of games, not to mention our heat, can have a much bigger effect. I am sorry but you are wrong! Most A League teams would struggle in League 2 Of course there are players who could play higher, but the teams themselves would struggle. If you look at Tom Rogic, he has struggled at Celtic. The SPL is probably between Championship and League 1 level. Of course Rogic has had injuries, but before them he was struggling to make an impact at Celtic. I'm sorry but you are wrong. League Two is absolute crap football. You use the example of Rogic. When he came here on loan he also struggled badly with Melbourne Victory. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victards Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 Inb4 Chelsea lose to Sydney. I wonder if Parrot will mention West ham losing to the Nix and Sydney? Lol. Of course as you have a predetermined view, these games can only be lose - lose for A League teams. If the A League team wins it's because "it's only a practise game." If the A League team loses it's "I told you so. A League clubs are shit compared to these teams." It's nice and comfortable when no matter what the result YOU are right! rofl. I watch plenty of EPL and Championship games. The best A League clubs would comfortably match it with most Championship teams and with their best 11 be very competitive against the lower EPL teams. Send a team over to Perth in the heat and see what happens. I bet you for starters the pace of their game will be nothing like in England. The major issue of course apart from our pathetic salary cap is squad depth - another FFA mandated decision to stop clubs becoming too good by forcing them to have small squads which means injuries and plenty of games, not to mention our heat, can have a much bigger effect. I am sorry but you are wrong! Most A League teams would struggle in League 2 Of course there are players who could play higher, but the teams themselves would struggle. If you look at Tom Rogic, he has struggled at Celtic. The SPL is probably between Championship and League 1 level. Of course Rogic has had injuries, but before them he was struggling to make an impact at Celtic. I'm sorry but you are wrong. League Two is absolute crap football. You use the example of Rogic. When he came here on loan he also struggled badly with Melbourne Victory. Lol the A-League isnt any better.. If anything, the quality of football has been going downhill with the exception of only 2-3 teams who play decent, enjoyable football... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embee Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 The A-League is probably at the equivalent of the lower half of League One for me. The very suggestion that A-League clubs could regularly mix it up with top half Championship/bottom feeder EPL clubs is hilarious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 It's interesting when you put it like that Murphy and you think that we had Duff under the cap, someone who was classed a top level EPL player. That's why I was pretty surprised that the team managed to sign Duff under the cap. I guess his age and season ending injury last season helped lower his price, but reportedly Duff also just wanted a new experience in Australia or America with his family, and I reckon that was probably decisive in making Duff just fit under the cap. Another discussion, but over his 15 games this season I was fairly pleased with Duff's performances. He produced 1 goal and 5 assists over 15 games, whereas Koren has just managed 3 goals and 2 assists over 18 games. The fitness/injury concern with 35 year old Duff was pretty problematic though. Damien Duff a few years younger, or another proven EPL performer, is the level to aim at with marquees IMO (like with Lampard and Villa at NYCFC), and not lower level players like Koren. Hopefully Melbourne City sees more players like that in the future. IMO there are three broad categories of marquee. 1. The Broich-type player, plucked from relative obscurity in a lower league somewhere who fits the Txiki criterion of being "a big player who will become a big name." This type of player doesn't put bums on seats right from the start, but as he helps his club to success then the bums start to come into the stadium. 2. The ADP/Villa-type player, a genuine big name who has played for a big club (or clubs). The club hopes for an instant reward on the field, but the main impact is clearly in crowd numbers, and that is clearly proven in the case of the two players I mention. 3. All the rest, and I'd say history suggests that A-League clubs don't get a lot of value from Category 3 marquees. Apart from those of us football tragics who for heritage or childhood reasons follow particular overseas clubs (in most cases probably wondering why we still go through the pain of doing so) and therefore are across the players who play for those clubs, I suggest that many A-league followers and supporters have never heard of the players in most clubs around the world, even if they are internationals for their countries, and the further down the rankings you go this knowledge decreases. In this respect football is no different to any other form of entertainment. I confess to have never heard of Robi Koren or Damien Duff before they arrived at Heart/City. IMO the City should revert to what Txiki Begiristain said at the beginning. Use our scouting network to find the "big player who will become a big name." And as and when it can be done, use the "big name" option as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deeming Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 It's interesting when you put it like that Murphy and you think that we had Duff under the cap, someone who was classed a top level EPL player. That's why I was pretty surprised that the team managed to sign Duff under the cap. I guess his age and season ending injury last season helped lower his price, but reportedly Duff also just wanted a new experience in Australia or America with his family, and I reckon that was probably decisive in making Duff just fit under the cap. Another discussion, but over his 15 games this season I was fairly pleased with Duff's performances. He produced 1 goal and 5 assists over 15 games, whereas Koren has just managed 3 goals and 2 assists over 18 games. The fitness/injury concern with 35 year old Duff was pretty problematic though. Damien Duff a few years younger, or another proven EPL performer, is the level to aim at with marquees IMO (like with Lampard and Villa at NYCFC), and not lower level players like Koren. Hopefully Melbourne City sees more players like that in the future. IMO there are three broad categories of marquee. 1. The Broich-type player, plucked from relative obscurity in a lower league somewhere who fits the Txiki criterion of being "a big player who will become a big name." This type of player doesn't put bums on seats right from the start, but as he helps his club to success then the bums start to come into the stadium. 2. The ADP/Villa-type player, a genuine big name who has played for a big club (or clubs). The club hopes for an instant reward on the field, but the main impact is clearly in crowd numbers, and that is clearly proven in the case of the two players I mention. 3. All the rest, and I'd say history suggests that A-League clubs don't get a lot of value from Category 3 marquees. Apart from those of us football tragics who for heritage or childhood reasons follow particular overseas clubs (in most cases probably wondering why we still go through the pain of doing so) and therefore are across the players who play for those clubs, I suggest that many A-league followers and supporters have never heard of the players in most clubs around the world, even if they are internationals for their countries, and the further down the rankings you go this knowledge decreases. In this respect football is no different to any other form of entertainment. I confess to have never heard of Robi Koren or Damien Duff before they arrived at Heart/City. IMO the City should revert to what Txiki Begiristain said at the beginning. Use our scouting network to find the "big player who will become a big name." And as and when it can be done, use the "big name" option as well. The bums on seat done well could have been Villa and was while he was here. As a guest player you can make that work. Marque just needs to be good and someone capable of playing in a high tempo league. Obscure players are a risk. But if going for an obscure player you need a relatively young player not someone the wrong side of 30. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronAV11 Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 It's interesting when you put it like that Murphy and you think that we had Duff under the cap, someone who was classed a top level EPL player. That's why I was pretty surprised that the team managed to sign Duff under the cap. I guess his age and season ending injury last season helped lower his price, but reportedly Duff also just wanted a new experience in Australia or America with his family, and I reckon that was probably decisive in making Duff just fit under the cap. Another discussion, but over his 15 games this season I was fairly pleased with Duff's performances. He produced 1 goal and 5 assists over 15 games, whereas Koren has just managed 3 goals and 2 assists over 18 games. The fitness/injury concern with 35 year old Duff was pretty problematic though. Damien Duff a few years younger, or another proven EPL performer, is the level to aim at with marquees IMO (like with Lampard and Villa at NYCFC), and not lower level players like Koren. Hopefully Melbourne City sees more players like that in the future. IMO there are three broad categories of marquee. 1. The Broich-type player, plucked from relative obscurity in a lower league somewhere who fits the Txiki criterion of being "a big player who will become a big name." This type of player doesn't put bums on seats right from the start, but as he helps his club to success then the bums start to come into the stadium. 2. The ADP/Villa-type player, a genuine big name who has played for a big club (or clubs). The club hopes for an instant reward on the field, but the main impact is clearly in crowd numbers, and that is clearly proven in the case of the two players I mention. 3. All the rest, and I'd say history suggests that A-League clubs don't get a lot of value from Category 3 marquees. Apart from those of us football tragics who for heritage or childhood reasons follow particular overseas clubs (in most cases probably wondering why we still go through the pain of doing so) and therefore are across the players who play for those clubs, I suggest that many A-league followers and supporters have never heard of the players in most clubs around the world, even if they are internationals for their countries, and the further down the rankings you go this knowledge decreases. In this respect football is no different to any other form of entertainment. I confess to have never heard of Robi Koren or Damien Duff before they arrived at Heart/City. IMO the City should revert to what Txiki Begiristain said at the beginning. Use our scouting network to find the "big player who will become a big name." And as and when it can be done, use the "big name" option as well. IMO our visa players should come from category 1, the unknown hidden gems like broich, Berisha, Flores, Germano etc, and our international marquee needs to come from category 2, a big name player like Drogba or Eto'o who will put bums on seats and dominate the league. Koren is doing neither and has to be released at the end of the season. Our international marquee is how we can separate ourselves from the rest of the competition as its outside of the cap and we have loads of money, so we need to make it count. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murfy1 Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 The problem I have with City's "a big player who will become a big name" marquee strategy is that Koren was meant to be the ideal example of that (in CFG's opinion), "a player who ticks all of the boxes": “We have been looking for the right player – and person – to fill our marquee position and Robert ticks all of the boxes,” Brian Marwood, Managing Director, City Football Services, said. “Robert is an impressive footballer who has had great experience at the top level in England and we’re excited about what he will bring to Melbourne City FC. “We’ve brought Robert to Melbourne to use his experience and class to help contribute to the team; he’s a natural leader, his resume in the UK speaks volumes and he’s a team player both on and off the pitch.” http://www.melbournecityfc.com.au/article/announcement-robert-koren-signs/128h18cmcmaoq1e7bjsr9l7a1p That's why, if a club can afford it, I reckon it's safer and more effective to go with the big name player. A player full of X factor, like an ADP or a Villa or a Lampard will always consistently dominate in the A-league, and there's the big bonus of thousands of more bums on seats (something that Melbourne City really can't afford to overlook. IMO that reason alone would justify Melbourne City getting a big name marquee). I am sympathetic to unearthing unknown quality players, and IMO Engelaar was a pretty good example of doing just that. But IMO for a club with City's resources the club should go the safer route with more benefits and just sign a big name class player, like CFG have done with NYCFC. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiro Kompiro Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) Inb4 Chelsea lose to Sydney. I wonder if Parrot will mention West ham losing to the Nix and Sydney? Lol. Of course as you have a predetermined view, these games can only be lose - lose for A League teams. If the A League team wins it's because "it's only a practise game." If the A League team loses it's "I told you so. A League clubs are shit compared to these teams." It's nice and comfortable when no matter what the result YOU are right! rofl. I watch plenty of EPL and Championship games. The best A League clubs would comfortably match it with most Championship teams and with their best 11 be very competitive against the lower EPL teams. Send a team over to Perth in the heat and see what happens. I bet you for starters the pace of their game will be nothing like in England. The major issue of course apart from our pathetic salary cap is squad depth - another FFA mandated decision to stop clubs becoming too good by forcing them to have small squads which means injuries and plenty of games, not to mention our heat, can have a much bigger effect. I am sorry but you are wrong! Most A League teams would struggle in League 2 Of course there are players who could play higher, but the teams themselves would struggle. If you look at Tom Rogic, he has struggled at Celtic. The SPL is probably between Championship and League 1 level. Of course Rogic has had injuries, but before them he was struggling to make an impact at Celtic. I saw Rogic in his first game for Celtic. He was a class above about 3/4's of his team mates in terms of his on ball ability, his vision and decison-making He had an assist where he beat 3 players out wide, cut back a perfectly directed and weighted pass that found its target through a congested penalty taking 3 defenders out, setting it up on a platter for his team mate to score. he also had some cracking shots on goal. I also saw a lot of mindless running up and down by his team mates-very quick it was but ultimately pointless, a lot of chipping over his head,. I was surprised it wasn't a neck injury that sidelined him for all the back and forth and up and down his head was moving. I went on the Celtic forum, and a few of them said that Rogic had that class about him, but would better suited to to the continent rather-and I quote-the "helter-skeleter of our playing style here". The fact is Rogic's career has been seriously curtailed by injury. Physically the top A-League teams would match pretty much every team in the SPL. Technically, the SPL are ahead. Tactically, the likes of Arnold, Popovic, even Merrick would have no problems matching and even out-coaching most of their coaches. Edited May 1, 2015 by Kiro Kompiro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewConvert Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 I still consider myself a newbie but my observation of ADP and Villa has been that we have a big name player here just put him on the field. For me that sort of thinking completely unbalances the team as was shown to be the case in Sydney and here at City. If we are going to get a big name player then the player must arrive as early as possible with at least three to four months lead in; and the coach must have a clear game plan and team that is drilled to play with the big name. Otherwise it all ends in tears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiro Kompiro Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 Getting back to Koren. The issue- from a trusted sauce-is that he is pissed with JVS and one other player. Basically it comes down to him not being played in the role that he made a career out of at the very highest level that he believes he deserves with his pedigree and marquee status. He considers himself as the first choice AM, but is being sidelined by Mooy, (who is using City to shop window himself as much as anything else) People calling him shit, understandably do so with regards to his effort and performances as they have been playing for us. However the issue as I and others identified is that JVS did not resolve how he was going to play two AM's (Koren and Mooy) at the same time with a slow and lumbering PAaartaluu for cover, slow and lumbering CB's, and inept full backs. Ultimately JVS couldn't resolve this and ended up playing Koren as a striker. Absolutely ridiculous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiro Kompiro Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 I still consider myself a newbie but my observation of ADP and Villa has been that we have a big name player here just put him on the field. For me that sort of thinking completely unbalances the team as was shown to be the case in Sydney and here at City. If we are going to get a big name player then the player must arrive as early as possible with at least three to four months lead in; and the coach must have a clear game plan and team that is drilled to play with the big name. Otherwise it all ends in tears. it ends in tears because coaches do not know how to fit these players in to a game plan that also suits the rest of the players in the squad. JVS brings EPL AM's and plays them as strikers, turns DM like Thompson as CB's, plays wingers like Ramsay as full backs, tomorrow will play midfielders like Retre at RB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 Which, if true KK, is that he simply is not what Marwood said he was: “We’ve brought Robert to Melbourne to use his experience and class to help contribute to the team; he’s a natural leader, his resume in the UK speaks volumes and he’s a team player both on and off the pitch.” Either way, it all needs to be resolved before we lurch through another season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiro Kompiro Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 @ JW. Koren did come here with all the best intentions to help this team and he feels he has not been given the chance to show what he can do. Its well and good to say he is not a team player. But this is a proud guy who captained an EPL club, captained his country at the World Cup, and is now playing second fiddle to a St Mirren old boy, in a third rate league with a fourth rate coach. One of two things will happen at the end of the season. JVS will be gone. And one of Koren or Mooy will be gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 None of which explains why he is clearly an inferior choice in midfield to a fit 19 year old Jake Melling. I really wanted RK to succeed and I get that the coach hasn't helped him, but if there's one thing I hate it's a bloke who doesn't give 100%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 @ JW. Koren did come here with all the best intentions to help this team and he feels he has not been given the chance to show what he can do. Its well and good to say he is not a team player. But this is a proud guy who captained an EPL club, captained his country at the World Cup, and is now playing second fiddle to a St Mirren old boy, in a third rate league with a fourth rate coach. One of two things will happen at the end of the season. JVS will be gone. And one of Koren or Mooy will be gone. Koren deserves to be playing second fiddle to Aaron Mooy. You can also add Melling to that. And like you, there is every chance Koren, mainly a Championship player, has underestimated the A League. And as mainly a Championship player Koren is playing in a competition where the standard is not much different to what he usually played in - with the added difficulties that he has had to travel hundreds of kilometres more to away games than he is used to PLUS he has had to play in very hot conditions that he is also not used to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torn Asunder Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) To me it seems strange that we can't just fit our best players in midfield together. Look at other teams particularly in the best comps around the world. They seem to be able to have more than one dominant midfielder working in unison in the team at the same time, whilst still being effective. Edited May 1, 2015 by Torn Asunder 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiro Kompiro Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) @ JW. Koren did come here with all the best intentions to help this team and he feels he has not been given the chance to show what he can do. Its well and good to say he is not a team player. But this is a proud guy who captained an EPL club, captained his country at the World Cup, and is now playing second fiddle to a St Mirren old boy, in a third rate league with a fourth rate coach. One of two things will happen at the end of the season. JVS will be gone. And one of Koren or Mooy will be gone. Koren deserves to be playing second fiddle to Aaron Mooy. You can also add Melling to that. And like you, there is every chance Koren, mainly a Championship player, has underestimated the A League. And as mainly a Championship player Koren is playing in a competition where the standard is not much different to what he usually played in - with the added difficulties that he has had to travel hundreds of kilometres more to away games than he is used to PLUS he has had to play in very hot conditions that he is also not used to. Its rubbish to say the A-league is not much different in standard to the Championship. Theoklitos left a champions Brisbane side and found himself back on the first plane-after playing in League 1. What has surprised him is the physicality and how much the refs let go here. I agree about the hot conditions and hard ground- football IS a winter sport that we play in summer. The travelling is neither here nor there- only PG and WP are anything signficant. You can't compare Melling, a DM to Korne an AM. Lets play Melling as a wide striker and see how goes? Mooy has been the standout player at the club. He is however selfish and has avoided passing to Koren on the pitch. Hence the on field F_OFF he got. I'm not defending his performance, just his ability. He is a quality player that has ended up at the wrong club with the wrong coach at the wrong time. One thing is certain: one of or both he and Mooy will be gone next season. If JVS wanted a wide striker he shoiuld have got himself one. Edited May 1, 2015 by Kiro Kompiro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattyd89 Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 To me it seems strange that we can't just fit our best players in midfield together. Look at other teams particularly in the best comps around the world. They seem to be able to have more than one dominant midfielder working in unison in the team at the same time, whilst still being effective. Gerrard and Lampard couldn't work together for England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiro Kompiro Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) To me it seems strange that we can't just fit our best players in midfield together. Look at other teams particularly in the best comps around the world. They seem to be able to have more than one dominant midfielder working in unison in the team at the same time, whilst still being effective. We can't because both Koren and Mooy "cheat" when it comes to defensive duties, and neither partaluu nor Melling nor Germano are Busquets. It was an obvious issue from the time Koren's signing was anounced, and JVS has failed to deal with it Edited May 1, 2015 by Kiro Kompiro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 To me it seems strange that we can't just fit our best players in midfield together. Look at other teams particularly in the best comps around the world. They seem to be able to have more than one dominant midfielder working in unison in the team at the same time, whilst still being effective. Thank you TA, that's the point I was really trying to make. I don't really mind which way it is - Koren not being the player we thought he is, or Koren being the player he always was but a coach who can't or won't use him properly, the grounds, the travelling, or even both Koren and van 't Schip being surprised by the success that Mooy has been. Any difficulties should have been worked out long before now. That other club has several players who are all prima donna forwards but they've managed to take the Premiers Plate in spite of it. Whatever the issues are they must be resolved during this off-season and well before next season starts; otherwise we have another mediocre season coming up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murfy1 Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) Earlier in the season the midfield of Mooy, Melling and Paartalu was first class, as far as midfields go in the A-League, because there was excellent balance. Paartalu did well as a deep lying midfielder and frequently and effectively collected the ball to start attacks, and Mooy and Melling were effective further up the field in attack (with Mooy in particular starring as the most creative midfielder) AND defence. With a 3 man midfield, where the team often presses opponents, all 3 midfielders need to have energy and be able to show something in both possession and when the team is defending without the ball (I believe that's why Kalmar was let go, he didn't have enough energy and couldn't do enough defensive work). And that's why no was especially keen to break up this midfield when Koren finally returned to fitness. And further more, Koren has utterly failed to offer anything defensively. Not even the token defending players like Finkler or Carrusca provide. Here's the defensive stats for the team's more forward midfielders: Koren 1 effective tackle every 202 minutes 1 interception every 128 minutes Mooy 1 effective tackle every 32 minutes 1 interception every 75 minutes Melling 1 effective tackle every 20 minutes 1 interception every 41 minutes Germano 1 effective tackle every 35 minutes 1 interception every 45 minutes So as others have said, Koren has no right to be played in midfield ahead of Mooy, Melling or Germano, and has failed to earn the chance to play ahead of those players. At the start of the season I was skeptical when Man City supporters said Koren is a luxury player. I figured a player who's spent several years in England and so much time in the Championship would offer enough defensively to help out a team in the A-League. I was wrong. Koren is an out and out luxury player, and a player with diminishing skills as his age keeps creeping up into the mid-30s. And then there's the injury concerns: Koren missed an entire 3rd of Melbourne City's season. There's no way this player deserves the international marquee spot, or the right to act like his own coach given the rapidly fading quality Koren is showing in the final phase of his career. Edited May 1, 2015 by Murfy1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silva10 Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 Inb4 Chelsea lose to Sydney. I wonder if Parrot will mention West ham losing to the Nix and Sydney? Lol. Of course as you have a predetermined view, these games can only be lose - lose for A League teams. If the A League team wins it's because "it's only a practise game." If the A League team loses it's "I told you so. A League clubs are shit compared to these teams." It's nice and comfortable when no matter what the result YOU are right! rofl. I watch plenty of EPL and Championship games. The best A League clubs would comfortably match it with most Championship teams and with their best 11 be very competitive against the lower EPL teams. Send a team over to Perth in the heat and see what happens. I bet you for starters the pace of their game will be nothing like in England. The major issue of course apart from our pathetic salary cap is squad depth - another FFA mandated decision to stop clubs becoming too good by forcing them to have small squads which means injuries and plenty of games, not to mention our heat, can have a much bigger effect. I am sorry but you are wrong! Most A League teams would struggle in League 2 Of course there are players who could play higher, but the teams themselves would struggle. If you look at Tom Rogic, he has struggled at Celtic. The SPL is probably between Championship and League 1 level. Of course Rogic has had injuries, but before them he was struggling to make an impact at Celtic. I'm sorry but you are wrong. League Two is absolute crap football. You use the example of Rogic. When he came here on loan he also struggled badly with Melbourne Victory. The point you miss is that they are more professional in their attitude and organisation. The A League teams would struggle physically and at set pieces. There are just as many speedy players in the lower leagues in England as there is in the A League The football is far from crap. It may be more route one in most teams, but there are plenty of players with ability at that level. I would say only the Victards and Adelaide would be able to compete at a higher level than League 2 at this moment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silva10 Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) Inb4 Chelsea lose to Sydney. I wonder if Parrot will mention West ham losing to the Nix and Sydney? Lol. Of course as you have a predetermined view, these games can only be lose - lose for A League teams. If the A League team wins it's because "it's only a practise game." If the A League team loses it's "I told you so. A League clubs are shit compared to these teams." It's nice and comfortable when no matter what the result YOU are right! rofl. I watch plenty of EPL and Championship games. The best A League clubs would comfortably match it with most Championship teams and with their best 11 be very competitive against the lower EPL teams. Send a team over to Perth in the heat and see what happens. I bet you for starters the pace of their game will be nothing like in England. The major issue of course apart from our pathetic salary cap is squad depth - another FFA mandated decision to stop clubs becoming too good by forcing them to have small squads which means injuries and plenty of games, not to mention our heat, can have a much bigger effect. I am sorry but you are wrong! Most A League teams would struggle in League 2 Of course there are players who could play higher, but the teams themselves would struggle. If you look at Tom Rogic, he has struggled at Celtic. The SPL is probably between Championship and League 1 level. Of course Rogic has had injuries, but before them he was struggling to make an impact at Celtic. I saw Rogic in his first game for Celtic. He was a class above about 3/4's of his team mates in terms of his on ball ability, his vision and decison-making He had an assist where he beat 3 players out wide, cut back a perfectly directed and weighted pass that found its target through a congested penalty taking 3 defenders out, setting it up on a platter for his team mate to score. he also had some cracking shots on goal. I also saw a lot of mindless running up and down by his team mates-very quick it was but ultimately pointless, a lot of chipping over his head,. I was surprised it wasn't a neck injury that sidelined him for all the back and forth and up and down his head was moving. I went on the Celtic forum, and a few of them said that Rogic had that class about him, but would better suited to to the continent rather-and I quote-the "helter-skeleter of our playing style here". The fact is Rogic's career has been seriously curtailed by injury. Physically the top A-League teams would match pretty much every team in the SPL. Technically, the SPL are ahead. Tactically, the likes of Arnold, Popovic, even Merrick would have no problems matching and even out-coaching most of their coaches. I am a Celtic fan and watch the games on Celtic TV Rogic had one or two good games at the start, however he was far from a class above his team mates. Of course injuries haven't helped him, but IMO I do not believe he is good enough for Celtic. His main asset is his running power, but he lacks the finesse to really make it at a top league. For me Miles Jedinak is a very good player and way ahead of Rogic, and that is why he is playing in the EPL. I have already said individual players can and will make it at a higher level. However, the teams themselves would struggle as they are still some way behind in a lot of areas. I am not having a go at the A League, just being realistic about the standard. Edited May 1, 2015 by silva10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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