The Jason Hoffman Appreciation thread

[drewmelbcity]

I admit he doesn't get trapped down field as much as Ramsey.

[belaguttman]

No, he isn't caught out of position as often as ramsay and his tackling is better but really, name one RB who is worse.

[hakz7]

One thing I praise him for is being a strong target for Redmayne. He gets on the end of the goal kicks, gets up well and wins the header more often than not. Obviously the header doesn't always fall to a teammate but he does fairly well most of the time.

[JoyfulPenguin]

No, he isn't caught out of position as often as ramsay and his tackling is better but really, name one RB who is worse.

Donachie and Bojic (since leaving Central Coast).

[GreenSeater]

In all honesty, Hoffman is currently the best defender at the club. Who would have thought we'd be saying that 5 years after he was signed as a striker?

[Tonyboozeadams]

North

[jw1739]

I admit he doesn't get trapped down field as much as Ramsey.

Yes he does. It's just that everyone on here has a severe overdose of Ramsay-hate. Ramsay's career is being sacrificed on the JvS "Altar of Obsession" with playing people out of their preferred position, which started in Season 1 with Matt Thompson.

[loriente]

I thought he was pretty much our best player yesterday.

Also it says everything that Sydney constantly attacked the left side of our defence and not the right, that's how much Hoffman is better than Ramsey.

Hoffman is consistently average, and right now that makes him one of our best players, so people need to get off his back until the other problems in the team are sorted out and he actually is one of our weakest performers.

 

Agreed. Wouldn't say 'best' though, I would go with 'least retarded.'

[drewmelbcity]

 

I admit he doesn't get trapped down field as much as Ramsey.

Yes he does. It's just that everyone on here has a severe overdose of Ramsay-hate. Ramsay's career is being sacrificed on the JvS "Altar of Obsession" with playing people out of their preferred position, which started in Season 1 with Matt Thompson.

 

 

I said as much as ramsay i didn't say he doesn't get trapped down field at all.

[belaguttman]

I don't hate him, I'm sure that he's a nice guy and tries his hardest, he just isn't a LB.

[Red or Dead]

Say what you want but Hoff does the job at RB. He might not be the best RB in the league but he sure as hell isn't the worst.

We don't want "isn't the worst" RB in the league, we want the best RB in the league and as you also believe, it's not him.

 

So we need to fcuk him off and sign a player who has the potential to be the best RB in the league! Hoff definitely does not have that potential.

[n i k o]

I agree we need someone better in his position but surely though you have to concede he is good enough to be a back up right back?

[Embee]

It's a salary capped league, you're not going to have class players in all 11 positions on the pitch.

 

Blokes like the Hoff, who are consistent without being exceptional, able to play a number of positions and are willing to trot along on fairly decent wages are vital in this league.

 

I'd be more worried about strengthening the LB, CB and GK positions (where we have players who aren't even decent A-League quality) before worrying about the RB position.

Edited November 24, 2014 by King Malta

[n i k o]

Spot on

[Red or Dead]

I agree we need someone better in his position but surely though you have to concede he is good enough to be a back up right back?

Yes. but at the moment he's not a backup, he's our first option. Not good enough to be in a starting line up IMO.

He is uncreative, panics too easily and has become wayyyy to predictable every time he pushes up the pitch; he cuts in EVERY SINGLE TIME and never crosses it in like a traditional RB/winger would!

 

It's a salary capped league, you're not going to have class players in all 11 positions on the pitch.

 

Blokes like the Hoff, who are consistent without being exceptional, able to play a number of positions and are willing to trot along on fairly decent wages are vital in this league.

 

I'd be more worried about strengthening the LB, CB and GK positions (where we have players who aren't even decent A-League quality) before worrying about the RB position.

I'm not looking for a $300k player for the right back position, I'm looking for a player with the potential to be or become the best right back in the league. Whether that's a junior like Archibald, a slightly more experienced A-Leaguer like Marrone (for example) or a proven old-timer.

 

Give me someone which we won't concede - like we have with Hoffman - "well he isn't the worst RB in the league!"

 

Although I agree King M, number 1 priority should be LB! I've a feeling that the GK and CB won't be addressed until next season.

[jw1739]

 

I agree we need someone better in his position but surely though you have to concede he is good enough to be a back up right back?

Yes. but at the moment he's not a backup, he's our first option. Not good enough to be in a starting line up IMO.

He is uncreative, panics too easily and has become wayyyy to predictable every time he pushes up the pitch; he cuts in EVERY SINGLE TIME and never crosses it in like a traditional RB/winger would!

Agreed. One of my main criticisms of the bloke. It's why we have the tendency to be too narrow when we go forward, their defence simply funnels back and when we finally get the ball in the box there are no openings to shoot.. Contrast our opponents, who play with width and hence stretch our defence and therefore there are openings.

 

But again, why doesn't JvS do something about this?

[bt50]

Not enough appreciation in this thread lately for my liking...

Edited November 24, 2014 by bt50

[n i k o]

I agree we need someone better in his position but surely though you have to concede he is good enough to be a back up right back?

Yes. but at the moment he's not a backup, he's our first option. Not good enough to be in a starting line up IMO.

He is uncreative, panics too easily and has become wayyyy to predictable every time he pushes up the pitch; he cuts in EVERY SINGLE TIME and never crosses it in like a traditional RB/winger would!

It's a salary capped league, you're not going to have class players in all 11 positions on the pitch.

Blokes like the Hoff, who are consistent without being exceptional, able to play a number of positions and are willing to trot along on fairly decent wages are vital in this league.

I'd be more worried about strengthening the LB, CB and GK positions (where we have players who aren't even decent A-League quality) before worrying about the RB position.

I'm not looking for a $300k player for the right back position, I'm looking for a player with the potential to be or become the best right back in the league. Whether that's a junior like Archibald, a slightly more experienced A-Leaguer like Marrone (for example) or a proven old-timer.

Give me someone which we won't concede - like we have with Hoffman - "well he isn't the worst RB in the league!"

Although I agree King M, number 1 priority should be LB! I've a feeling that the GK and CB won't be addressed until next season.I've said that time and time again that Hoffman should be a backup, so it's not the first time, although he is managing fine being a starter. And I agree he isn't as potent going forward, ideally it would be great to have someone proficient at both attacking and defending. The perfect fullback.

But there is no way you can go through the goals we have conceded and blame Hoffman for them. The last time we conceded as a result of him directly as far as I can remember was when he gave away the penalty in preseason. Nearly every other goal has been conceded due to poor goal keeping, mistakes by our centre backs or a huge gaping hole on the left wing that is Ramsey. Its ok to point fingers when there is enough evidence to do so but this constant hate on Hoffman is totally unwarranted and a bit tiresome to be perfectly honest.

Edited November 24, 2014 by n i k o

[n i k o]

And I might add to that he is our best defender for the role he plays out of all our current back four and the only one that can keep up with anyone in the league with his physicality, height and speed. He does have some shortfalls but it is these qualities which is precisely why he is our most reliable.

[Red or Dead]

 

I agree we need someone better in his position but surely though you have to concede he is good enough to be a back up right back?

Yes. but at the moment he's not a backup, he's our first option. Not good enough to be in a starting line up IMO.

He is uncreative, panics too easily and has become wayyyy to predictable every time he pushes up the pitch; he cuts in EVERY SINGLE TIME and never crosses it in like a traditional RB/winger would!

It's a salary capped league, you're not going to have class players in all 11 positions on the pitch.

Blokes like the Hoff, who are consistent without being exceptional, able to play a number of positions and are willing to trot along on fairly decent wages are vital in this league.

I'd be more worried about strengthening the LB, CB and GK positions (where we have players who aren't even decent A-League quality) before worrying about the RB position.

I'm not looking for a $300k player for the right back position, I'm looking for a player with the potential to be or become the best right back in the league. Whether that's a junior like Archibald, a slightly more experienced A-Leaguer like Marrone (for example) or a proven old-timer.

Give me someone which we won't concede - like we have with Hoffman - "well he isn't the worst RB in the league!"

Although I agree King M, number 1 priority should be LB! I've a feeling that the GK and CB won't be addressed until next season. I've said that time and time again that Hoffman should be a backup, so it's not the first time, although he is managing fine being a starter. And I agree he isn't as potent going forward, ideally it would be great to have someone proficient at both attacking and defending. The perfect fullback.

But there is no way you can go through the goals we have conceded and blame Hoffman for them. The last time we conceded as a result of him directly as far as I can remember was when he gave away the penalty in preseason. Nearly every other goal has been conceded due to poor goal keeping, mistakes by our centre backs or a huge gaping hole on the left wing that is Ramsey. Its ok to point fingers when there is enough evidence to do so but this constant hate on Hoffman is totally unwarranted and a bit tiresome to be perfectly honest.

Mate, just because you've said it time and time and again it doesn't mean I have to agree with it.

 

There's no Hoffman 'hate' here, I just don't think the guy is any good to be our starting RB. Simple as that. I've named my reasons why so I don't think my view is unwarranted...as tiresome as that may be for you.

 

And may I add, although most goals haven't come from Hoffman's direct involvement, I believe he's to blame for some of them, like all those times he cuts in and lobs or passes the ball into the opposition's defence which they easily clear, counter attack and then score. I'll also include ALL those times where he'll leave the opposition's winger on his lonesome when the balls on the left side and when they switch their winger has acres of space to run at Hoffman and attack our goals. Obviously JvS is also to blame here because he doesn't correct this, but Hoffman, a seasoned professional needs to have a better awareness of how much room he gives his opponent.

 

You see things differently, that's fine; I'm diplomatic enough to agree to disagree.

[n i k o]

I agree we need someone better in his position but surely though you have to concede he is good enough to be a back up right back?

Yes. but at the moment he's not a backup, he's our first option. Not good enough to be in a starting line up IMO.

He is uncreative, panics too easily and has become wayyyy to predictable every time he pushes up the pitch; he cuts in EVERY SINGLE TIME and never crosses it in like a traditional RB/winger would!

It's a salary capped league, you're not going to have class players in all 11 positions on the pitch.

Blokes like the Hoff, who are consistent without being exceptional, able to play a number of positions and are willing to trot along on fairly decent wages are vital in this league.

I'd be more worried about strengthening the LB, CB and GK positions (where we have players who aren't even decent A-League quality) before worrying about the RB position.

I'm not looking for a $300k player for the right back position, I'm looking for a player with the potential to be or become the best right back in the league. Whether that's a junior like Archibald, a slightly more experienced A-Leaguer like Marrone (for example) or a proven old-timer.

Give me someone which we won't concede - like we have with Hoffman - "well he isn't the worst RB in the league!"

Although I agree King M, number 1 priority should be LB! I've a feeling that the GK and CB won't be addressed until next season. I've said that time and time again that Hoffman should be a backup, so it's not the first time, although he is managing fine being a starter. And I agree he isn't as potent going forward, ideally it would be great to have someone proficient at both attacking and defending. The perfect fullback.

But there is no way you can go through the goals we have conceded and blame Hoffman for them. The last time we conceded as a result of him directly as far as I can remember was when he gave away the penalty in preseason. Nearly every other goal has been conceded due to poor goal keeping, mistakes by our centre backs or a huge gaping hole on the left wing that is Ramsey. Its ok to point fingers when there is enough evidence to do so but this constant hate on Hoffman is totally unwarranted and a bit tiresome to be perfectly honest.

Mate, just because you've said it time and time and again it doesn't mean I have to agree with it.

 

There's no Hoffman 'hate' here, I just don't think the guy is any good to be our starting RB. Simple as that. I've named my reasons why so I don't think my view is unwarranted...as tiresome as that may be for you.

 

And may I add, although most goals haven't come from Hoffman's direct involvement, I believe he's to blame for some of them, like all those times he cuts in and lobs or passes the ball into the opposition's defence which they easily clear, counter attack and then score. I'll also include ALL those times where he'll leave the opposition's winger on his lonesome when the balls on the left side and when they switch their winger has acres of space to run at Hoffman and attack our goals. Obviously JvS is also to blame here because he doesn't correct this, but Hoffman, a seasoned professional needs to have a better awareness of how much room he gives his opponent.

 

You see things differently, that's fine; I'm diplomatic enough to agree to disagree.

I'm happy to discuss it so let me clear something up first. What I've said time and time again is that Hoffman should be our back up right back. So I was agreeing with you that ideally he shouldn't be a starter, nothing to do with you agreeing with me.

It could be the fact that particularly last season Hoffman was targeted for abuse on here when he was one of our most reliable players. Coupled with the fact that amazingly enough many other players escaped seriously warranted scrutiny makes it very plausible that there's some serious dislike for the bloke. The fact is now, like last season, he is the least of our worries at the back.

Regarding those apparent flaws in his game it's normal to leave space between yourself and an opposition winger so that they don't get in behind you. I ask you how when was the last time we copped a goal because of this problem?

Only last season everyone was up in arms that he never pushes forward. So can you give me an example of when he has lost the ball up front and it has resulted in a goal on the counter, and also keep in mind the responsibility of the other 5 or 6 players that would be behind him to defend?

[jw1739]

And I might add to that he is our best defender for the role he plays out of all our current back four and the only one that can keep up with anyone in the league with his physicality, height and speed. He does have some shortfalls but it is these qualities which is precisely why he is our most reliable.

Niko, I also want to make it clear that I don't actually wish to single out any particular player. The fact of the matter is that we have chosen a style of play (the high press with the fullbacks sitting well in front of the two CBs) that simply does not suit the defensive back four that we have.  Any break down in our forward movement  leaves the two FBs stranded up field, and our two ageing and now slow CBs completely exposed to the quick counter attack. Opposition coaches are not blind. They have seen that the most vulnerable of the two FBs is Ramsay, and they therefore go to attack down their right wing to exploit what they see is the weakest link in the City defence. I would do exactly the same.

 

The fact that our weak link is our left FB doesn't mean that any of the other defenders are adequate for the task at hand, and I adhere to my view that the entire defence needs to be replaced next season. In the meantime the high press is what should be abandoned, because we simply do not have the players for it.

[n i k o]

I totally agree with what you have said. And as I said in the JVS out thread our style of play exposes our worst weaknesses of our defensive players. And I also would attack our left wing. In saying that when we played brisbane they attacked through broich on the right wing and we handled it fairly well. The goal we copped was from the left hand wing though. So my point is when teams do attack on the right it's no where near as problematic. And Hoffman is the only player out of our backline that can match anyone else for speed for getting up and down the pitch.

I also do agree and have said before that our whole backline must be replaced for us to play a high possession game.

[MHFCROB24]

Need some more hoff appreciation in here.          

[moops]

He is getting better, his positioning isn't bad unless asked to get forrward, that's not his game.

He can cut in very well to overload midfield, it's just that JVS hasn't obviously noticed this stregnth and not done it in training.

He needs to get better at jockying, which there are sme simple training for this.

His balance can be terrible, which is something I feel is hard to teach, it's more instinctive.

Positioning can be bad, but sometimes it's because of how he is asked to play, sometimes it's because of awareness, called ball watching by tv comentators. That can be worked on, it's probably the least of the worries.

Bayern Munchen on youtube is great to watch, they regularly post training sessions with Pep, I really think Aloisi got the Hoff to an extent, but JVS is blindsighted. If we had a coach with half of Pep's ability the Hoff would be more inteligent and used for his stregnths.

[Torn Asunder]

He has been our best most consistent defender this year by a mile.

Ironic, given he is not a natural defender.

I think that there has definitely been small incremental improvements in his game over time, and given the poor form of our other defenders, his position as our starting full back seems safe for this season and next. And if he can keep on improving, when the time comes that his contract expires, perhaps he will have transformed into one of the better RBs in the league, and will be worth keeping.

I think it's a big positive that he can learn and improve. Shows he is thinking about his game and trying to adapt.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Torn Asunder

[Tesla]

Haters gonna hate but Hoffman still getting paid to play football, is a starting player in a pretty good league, and has a hot misses.

Hoffman > haters.

[Tesla]

Would love to actually find out how much Hoff is on, as I think some people assume it's the 50k minimum, when I reckon it could be more like 70-80k. Would surely anger the haters. Keep hustling Hoff.

[Jovan]

Really? I thought he'd been on at least 125k.

We are talking about the Hoff after all.

[Dylan]

He just bought some shitty hyundai

[gunheart]

Hoff has put in a decent effort so far. He must laugh at the bloke on the other side (Ramsay) getting hammered each match. Takes the heat off Hoff.

[japiedog]

well he must be happy that it is not his wing that is being attacked ALL the time

[Red or Dead]

He just bought some shitty hyundai

Shouldn't he have bought a Nissan since it's CFG's car sponsor? I see Mr. Munn is driving around an Infiniti!

[belaguttman]

 

And I might add to that he is our best defender for the role he plays out of all our current back four and the only one that can keep up with anyone in the league with his physicality, height and speed. He does have some shortfalls but it is these qualities which is precisely why he is our most reliable.

Niko, I also want to make it clear that I don't actually wish to single out any particular player. The fact of the matter is that we have chosen a style of play (the high press with the fullbacks sitting well in front of the two CBs) that simply does not suit the defensive back four that we have.  Any break down in our forward movement  leaves the two FBs stranded up field, and our two ageing and now slow CBs completely exposed to the quick counter attack. Opposition coaches are not blind. They have seen that the most vulnerable of the two FBs is Ramsay, and they therefore go to attack down their right wing to exploit what they see is the weakest link in the City defence. I would do exactly the same.

 

The fact that our weak link is our left FB doesn't mean that any of the other defenders are adequate for the task at hand, and I adhere to my view that the entire defence needs to be replaced next season. In the meantime the high press is what should be abandoned, because we simply do not have the players for it.

 

The problem is our poor counter team pressing at the moment of defensive transition up the park. If any team is to play with a high line and fullbacks forward then they need a strategy to deal with this situation of losing the ball up the park. The team needs to press the opponents to encourage a back pass rather than a forwards pass and certainly not a pass that exposes 2 isolated slow CBs.Hoffman at least plays in a generally more defensive position than Ramsay, but the importance of the team press needs to be emphasised.

[sheepdog]

He just bought some shitty hyundai

Hyundai in fact pay him to drive around in their car.

[Murfy1]

 

 

And I might add to that he is our best defender for the role he plays out of all our current back four and the only one that can keep up with anyone in the league with his physicality, height and speed. He does have some shortfalls but it is these qualities which is precisely why he is our most reliable.

Niko, I also want to make it clear that I don't actually wish to single out any particular player. The fact of the matter is that we have chosen a style of play (the high press with the fullbacks sitting well in front of the two CBs) that simply does not suit the defensive back four that we have.  Any break down in our forward movement  leaves the two FBs stranded up field, and our two ageing and now slow CBs completely exposed to the quick counter attack. Opposition coaches are not blind. They have seen that the most vulnerable of the two FBs is Ramsay, and they therefore go to attack down their right wing to exploit what they see is the weakest link in the City defence. I would do exactly the same.

 

The fact that our weak link is our left FB doesn't mean that any of the other defenders are adequate for the task at hand, and I adhere to my view that the entire defence needs to be replaced next season. In the meantime the high press is what should be abandoned, because we simply do not have the players for it.

 

The problem is our poor counter team pressing at the moment of defensive transition up the park. If any team is to play with a high line and fullbacks forward then they need a strategy to deal with this situation of losing the ball up the park. The team needs to press the opponents to encourage a back pass rather than a forwards pass and certainly not a pass that exposes 2 isolated slow CBs.Hoffman at least plays in a generally more defensive position than Ramsay, but the importance of the team press needs to be emphasised.

 

 

 

Very much agree that Melbourne City needs to more effectively press the opponent the moment the ball is lost, even if the team doesn't regain possession (because forcing the opponent to pass sideways or backwards to slow and neutralise an opponent's counterattacking opportunities is very important).

 

2 other things I'd emphasise:

 

 

Melbourne City just need to become even better at keeping the ball. Rather like Adelaide United's first 10 games last season, if the team is only pretty good at keeping possession, but makes 2 to 3 criminal turnovers of possession a game (like Miller and Wielaert did for the 2 goals, and Paartalu did [although that went unpunished]) then all the pretty passing isn't worth much. The team must be very good at keeping possession, and the sloppy turnovers in our own half must be cut out. If the team does take its possession up a level, chances like what Sydney had for it's 2 goals on Saturday don't happen.

 

 

The final point I'd make is that the fullbacks need to better coordinate with one another. If the attack is going up one wing, the opposite fullback should sit back and tuck in near the closest central defender to limit space. This coordinating of fullbacks is detailed excellently in the article in the defensive problems thread, and it is a crucial part of the team's defending that the fullbacks need to get right.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Murfy1

[Tonyboozeadams]

I heard the hoff ate 16 turkeys for thanksgiving

[Cinnamon]

I heard the hoff ate 16 turkeys for thanksgiving

What's the Hoff celebrating foreign holidays for? I'm starting to think this appreciation thread is a beat up

[Tonyboozeadams]

The hoff is of all nationalities. He is omnipotent

[Pete Heartspur]

The hoff is of all nationalities. He is omnipotent

Sheesh! For a moment there I thought you said incompetent!