Shahanga Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 (edited) We have nine matches to go, and arithmetically we can still reach the play-offs. We keep hearing that "any club can beat any club" and so IMO it's time for us to demonstrate that we can do just that. Attitudes need to change. If we were in a competition with relegation we would be sitting on the trapdoor to oblivion. If any of the current mob want to be here next season then it's time for them to stand up and deliver. jw be positive old son! Arithmetically we can still win the league! (23 behind Brisbane with 27 points to play for). I think everything has changed dramatically over the lost few weeks. Thats why we have 10 points from 4 games, including a draw that could have been more, away to a team that are making others look second rate. In so far as attitude goes, the attitude we are seeing now ("how can we find a win today") is something we should have seen regardless of manager or position on the table. Not good enough to say "I didn't like what I saw so I didn't give 100%". Its called being a professional and ultimately, if you have to, playing for personal pride. OH in the past JVS's team has conceded too many soft goals and been too slow moving forward with the ball (not enough one touch football, which ultimately is what breaks down well organised teams). These would need to be addressed, presumably at recruitment level. Edited February 15, 2014 by Shahanga 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulhollanddrive Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 NYC have appointed their manager with previous league experience 2 years before their first game. JVS is Melbourne Heart (forget the past 18 months), would be the equivilent, having been here for 2 years before and set up the culture of the club. Also has local knowledge, something that a big name wouldn't have, and that something the owners wanted with NYC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 JvS is a good candidate, but my guess is it will be someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerou812 Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Not really worried about who the coach is. I feel that who ever it is, if they don't perform to the level that the city group want they will be gone. None of this holding on to a coach for ages hoping that something will happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF33 Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Nice post Bela. A few random thoughts: How good a player was Andy Flower really? He stood out because he was Zimbabwean, but if he'd played for a decent test nation what then? (ie I like where the author is going but am not sure that Andy Flower is the best example) In football terms i would like to see an analysis based on players positions as well as their success. Personal bias, but i suspect defenders might have more chance of being top managers than strikers. I guess this goes back to an interview I saw once with Alan Shearer at the end of his career. The journo asked "how did you know the right spot to be all the time?", to which Shearer said "I don't know". I also heard "The Duk" say pretty much the same thing - "why do you have these goal scoring blitzs, then periods of nothing". Duk "I don't know, I wish i did". Both these guys were fabulous players but they played by instinct, you can't teach others if you don't know what you did yourself! To support the author I came to the same conclusion in a uni lecture theatre a long time ago. Although this was an advanced class, the lecturer (a leader in his field) had lost us and was struggling to explain the issue in language we could grasp. The reason seemed to be that it was bloody obvious to him, so he couldn't see that it might not be obvious to us as well! That is why the best teachers are usually the ones who had to work hard to get there - they realise that not everyone works magically on instinct and that things are not "obvious" to all without explanation. I expect coaching should in some degree, be similar. Agree with the general point, but Flower was world class. There's enough anecdotal evidence available to support that, plus the logical 'he averaged over 50 as a batsman and he didn't have Zimbabwe to beat up on either (or Bangladesh for most of his career)'. I think it depends a bit on the sport, but it makes sense that the scrappers would be in a better position to be successful managers than the superstars (especially if they've been 'scrappers' at an exceptional standard of competition). They can relate to the fringe players, get them onside and get them to give their best for the team. And with the superstars, to a large extent, they can probably just think back to their experience of what worked and didn't work with similar players when they were playing alongside them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 I am worried who the coach is. I think it's been shown time and time again in this league the coach is the most important person in the club. Get that right you'll have success Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melburnian Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 I am worried who the coach is. I think it's been shown time and time again in this league the coach is the most important person in the club. Get that right you'll have success It's vital to get it right. The floor is JVS. If we can improve on that fantastic, if not he's a solid A League Manager. Could be a great one with a decent squad and support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTD/MLBHRT/ESSNDON Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Our last 5 results have come from JVS coaching nothing els... So just close this thread, because JVS will be coaching next season no matter who becomes available. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defibrillator Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 (edited) From what I'm hearing JVS is impressing the new owners with his management and development focus. I think if he's knocked out of the post it will be by someone exceptional. The worry for me is that a "name" replacement will more than likely be used to working with a high profile proficient squad - something not found in the A-league. In my mind what is needed is someone who has good skills in player development and improving skills etc. as well as tactical and game day nous. JVS has shown this and is quite prepared to improve players and not rely on the finished product. Some managers don't have the skills to start from a low base. And from what I'm hearing about our Marquee budget, don't worry about funds. Rumoured to be well north of 2 million spread over the 2-3 marquees made my jaw drop and Mooy outside this. Still needs to be quality - but compared to where we've come from this will be a great ride. Edited February 16, 2014 by Defibrillator 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heart_fan10 Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 tbh I think JVS is exactly the type of person the new owners are looking for. - Played at the highest level as a player - Coached at a high level with club/national teams - Plays a good style of football - Promotes youth I think people are judging him from his first stint as a manager at heart. He's already shown that he has learnt from that experience and seems to understand what it takes to be successful in the a-league. Apart from Australian candidates, JVS would know Australian footballers and a-league footballers better than anyone which is a big positive. He's convincing me more and more after every game that he is the right man for the job. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewConvert Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 If JVS keeps delivering he must have the inside running. What an unbelievable turn around! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 To be honest I'm tired of this shit about jvs and how he has learnt from his experience at heart earlier on. He was just as smart as a manager then as he is now. Back then we had a back line worthy of the youth team in age, and many undeveloped players around the pitch. Put simply we had no one, fucking no one. No marquee, no 'proper' australian marquee, nothing. People expect jvs to do something with that bullshit and perform miracles with a team like that with no back support from the former board. You can't be serious. I'm not saying he's the greatest manager on earth, but his knowledge and experience is beyond this league and always was. Your absolutely kidding yourself if you think otherwise. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulhollanddrive Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Only alternative I can think of is Frank Rijkaard. But you still have the problems of a big name in small pond. He's managed Messi and Barcelona, does he have the same skills with relative nobodies, apart from a big pay cheque, what would be his motivation? JVS because he helped define the club before we even played a game, has that interest, he started with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSK_47 Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 (edited) I have been completely proven wrong about JVS today. Many of the players needed the JA coached out of them and I think some of the supporters do too (me being one of them). Edited February 16, 2014 by KSK_47 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartMillsy29 Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 I'm on the keep JVS bandwagon too. This turn around has shown that he is arguably one of if not the best coach in the league. Imagine if he had his own squad and proper training facilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perthheart Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 I think we are seeing the fruits of JVS having a decent squad. The board fucked up when they didn't give JVS backing then finally threw some cash at the squad this season with a spud manager in charge. It always was a disgrace that the squad we have was winless and playing such insipid football. This run is over and above what I would have expected but there is no way that we wouldn't have been challenging in the finals places this season if we had any half decent manager in at the beginning of this season. I think JVS will tick most boxes that the city group will be looking for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Waiting for JA to stick his head in the papers again to say how he didn't have players available. Hold on we didn't have kewell or germano. Go figure. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theresonlyonebzamora Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Our last 5 results have come from JVS coaching nothing els... So just close this thread, because JVS will be coaching next season no matter who becomes available. hy·per·bo·le [hahy-pur-buh-lee] Show IPA noun Rhetoric . 1. obvious and intentional exaggeration. 2. an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Waiting for JA to stick his head in the papers again to say how he didn't have players available. Hold on we didn't have kewell or germano. Go figure. Or MacAllister or Gol Gol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEARTinator Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 JA departed after our 1:0 loss to the Nux at the end of last year. Today, against the Nux, it's fair to say that our 5:0 win laid to rest the ghost of JA and his reign of terror. Sad but true. Would not be disappointed if JVS coached next season. And with the development of the club under the watchful eyes of ManC, the extra support and resources at hand should see us ultra competitive - silverware contention a minimum and AAMI filled for home games. Looking forward to the WC and our off season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeVader Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 AAMI filled for home games? Hmmm dunno about that yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melburnian Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 The contract is being drawn up for JVS as we speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marn11 Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 The contract is being drawn up for JVS as we speak. Fact? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melburnian Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 The contract is being drawn up for JVS as we speak. Fact? No. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marn11 Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Only alternative I can think of is Frank Rijkaard. But you still have the problems of a big name in small pond. He's managed Messi and Barcelona, does he have the same skills with relative nobodies, apart from a big pay cheque, what would be his motivation? JVS because he helped define the club before we even played a game, has that interest, he started with us. relative nobodies = Saudia Arabia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rizzo Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Has to be JVS. We are now seeing what he can do with a proper squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiz.heart Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 #playfree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiro Kompiro Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Our last 5 results have come from JVS coaching nothing els... So just close this thread, because JVS will be coaching next season no matter who becomes available. Not convinced. Yet. During Aloisi's time, Williams misses open goal tap-ins. Yesterday he lobs the keeper form outside the box and it goes in, he strikes from distance and hits the inside of the far post. Not to mention Missfud. Oh Kewell's penalty. Dugandsic's one on one miss in Perth at crucial time. The drop in confidence happened as a result of these misses, and became a viscious cycle. Then Engelaar comes in changes everyone's attitude around him. Harry gets fitter. Also the back pass to the keeper and long ball to 5'0" Terra started with him, as did the winless streak. I hope for a fresh face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexxandro Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Our last 5 results have come from JVS coaching nothing els... So just close this thread, because JVS will be coaching next season no matter who becomes available. Not convinced. Yet. During Aloisi's time, Williams misses open goal tap-ins. Yesterday he lobs the keeper form outside the box and it goes in, he strikes from distance and hits the inside of the far post. Not to mention Missfud. Oh Kewell's penalty. Dugandsic's one on one miss in Perth at crucial time. The drop in confidence happened as a result of these misses, and became a viscious cycle. Then Engelaar comes in changes everyone's attitude around him. Harry gets fitter. Also the back pass to the keeper and long ball to 5'0" Terra started with him, as did the winless streak. I hope for a fresh face. If you think the team played badly under JA because of a few misses sapping confidence then I don't know what to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTD/MLBHRT/ESSNDON Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Forget about any score, and the what if this and what if that... What tactical game plan did JA bring to the table...? What has JVS brought to the table...? A different one each week, which has worked. It takes balls and experience to do what his done to Mifsud, and kick him out of the team. I haven't seen Heart win the midfield battle week in week out, in forever! Please don't compare JA to JVS, that's fkn insulting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiro Kompiro Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Our last 5 results have come from JVS coaching nothing els... So just close this thread, because JVS will be coaching next season no matter who becomes available. Not convinced. Yet. During Aloisi's time, Williams misses open goal tap-ins. Yesterday he lobs the keeper form outside the box and it goes in, he strikes from distance and hits the inside of the far post. Not to mention Missfud. Oh Kewell's penalty. Dugandsic's one on one miss in Perth at crucial time. The drop in confidence happened as a result of these misses, and became a viscious cycle. Then Engelaar comes in changes everyone's attitude around him. Harry gets fitter. Also the back pass to the keeper and long ball to 5'0" Terra started with him, as did the winless streak. I hope for a fresh face. If you think the team played badly under JA because of a few misses sapping confidence then I don't know what to say. If you've read any of my post you'd know that I predicted Aloisi's failure when he was first appointed. The fact is we now have players like Williams taking their chances, whereas they weren't under Aloisi. And we're not talking one or two misses, in total there'd be a dozen clear misses by Missfud, Williams, Ramsay, Kewell, and Dugandzic. Aloisi had to go, but I'm not convinced that JVS is the man to take this club forward next season either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiro Kompiro Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Forget about any score, and the what if this and what if that... What tactical game plan did JA bring to the table...? What has JVS brought to the table...? A different one each week, which has worked. It takes balls and experience to do what his done to Mifsud, and kick him out of the team. I haven't seen Heart win the midfield battle week in week out, in forever! Please don't compare JA to JVS, that's fkn insulting. It takes no balls at all to dismiss a CF who has scored one in about 15 starts and missed about a dozen clear cut chances. Especially if your predecessor brought him to the club, so there is no accountability for benching him. I'm not comparing JA to JVS. I'm judging JVS's overall performance at this club, having regard to the players available to him and their individual match day performances. Not to mention the motivation of having a billionaire Arab owner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSK_47 Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) As I am sure you know kiro I have been on the same page. I stand by what I said, regardless of the squad we had I was not impressed by him in s1 and s2 (overall). I do agree that this recent string of results are not entirely down to jvs alone. As I have stated earlier, the motivation to impress the new owners has played a massive role for all at the club imo. However. I am happy to stop looking at what has happened in the past and focus on what is to come. JVS is showing what he is capable of right now and I can't argue with what he is putting on the table. I think he is the man for the job next season. Edited February 17, 2014 by KSK_47 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewConvert Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Forget about any score, and the what if this and what if that... What tactical game plan did JA bring to the table...? What has JVS brought to the table...? A different one each week, which has worked. It takes balls and experience to do what his done to Mifsud, and kick him out of the team. I haven't seen Heart win the midfield battle week in week out, in forever! Please don't compare JA to JVS, that's fkn insulting. It takes no balls at all to dismiss a CF who has scored one in about 15 starts and missed about a dozen clear cut chances. Especially if your predecessor brought him to the club, so there is no accountability for benching him. I'm not comparing JA to JVS. I'm judging JVS's overall performance at this club, having regard to the players available to him and their individual match day performances. Not to mention the motivation of having a billionaire Arab owner. I am not sure how much of a motivator having a billionaire owner is. It does guarantee the clubs existence but their salary was already guaranteed by the FFA. For the younger players it may mean another path to the EPL or perhaps some other leagues. For middle age players (~25) if they haven't come under the radar of other leagues it is unlikely to happen because of the ownership changes. For the older players it may mean the end of their professional career a bit earlier than expected so they may have a bigger motivator. The only real motivation that I can think of is that the club will eventually have better facilities. So although I agree that there is some motivation I don't believe it to be that big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 At the moment we are on a run, there will be a reversion to the mean performance level at some stage (maybe this is our new mean, time will tell) and we have to look at JVS' mean level of coaching performance. The 'failure' to recruit new players in January is actually a helpful thing as it removes one variable in assessing the true performance of both JVS and the playing squad. For instance let's say we recruited Zlatan and he scored 40 goals by the end of the season and we won the Championship, how would we know how to attribute this success? In JVS' favour, the performance mean was so low under JA that presumably the MFG will have external measures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 I find it difficult to believe that the turn in results is attributable solely to JvS. Agree that he has had a significant influence, but IMO it would be naive to think that the players have not lifted their game after the ownership change was announced on 23rd January. JA may have been a poor coach, but a squad such as ours should never had just 4 points with almost half the season gone, and the players must take some accountability for that. As has been said by others (including JvS), we need to take it just one match at a time and not get too far ahead of ourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 I'd agree, it's never 'solely' due to any one factor, however could you imagine the results that we've had in the last 5 weeks if we'd had the change of ownership, Engelaar returning but JA was still the coach? Unlikely JA would have played Germano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Murfy1 Posted February 17, 2014 Popular Post Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) I wouldn't say JVS is solely responsible for the Heart revival, either. But I'd say JVS is mainly or mostly responsible for our turnaround. If you just look at the correlation between JVS' reign and Hearts results, it's hard to ignore the big positive influence he's had. This season we were winless in 12 (8 losses, 4 draws), winless in away matches for years and had never come from behind to win under Aloisi (about 23 games!). Since JVS took over, we've got 4 wins, 2 draws and a lone away loss to Perth, and JVS has overturned those other negative records completely. I don't think enough players have come back to fundamentally changes things, either. It should be remembered as well that Kewell played 4-5 games under JA, and we were still winless. Also, yesterday showed that Heart and JVS don't need Kewell (or Germano) to win. As for Engelaar, he only explains our last win, and was not significant in our first 3 (against the Jets he was subbed on when Heart was 2-1, and was not involved in the third goal. Against Sydney he got send off around the 33rd min and he missed the Perth match through suspension). JVS has even got results despite the club releasing 2 players, Golgol and Macallister (It should be remembered that when Dmac was injured and unavailable JA called him a "quality senior player", along with Kalmar and Hoffman). The fact is JA just peddled excuses and described any player who was injured and unavailable as important; returning players haven't been that significant. JVS on the other hand has effectively changed thing around with nearly entirely the same players (and the question is would JA have gotten the same performances out of, say, Germano or Engelaar? It's very hard to believe so). So for my money JVS mostly explains our resurgence, and the improving fitness of Engelaar and Kewell (until last round) was IMO probably the second most important factor, but a rather minor factor. Whilst I'd say luck has been next to a non-factor. For instance, whilst we probably had a fortunate finish or 2 yesterday, we were bound to win yesterday's match by at least 3 or 4 goals, given how we were playing (keeping the ball often, and creating many good chances). I just find our turnaround to be a classic reminder of how important coaching is in football, and proof that Aloisi was woefully under-prepared to be a professional coach and evidence that JVS is a pretty capable coach at A-League level. Edited February 17, 2014 by Murfy1 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEARTinator Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 AAMI filled for home games? Hmmm dunno about that yet Dare to dream We're not talking about Sidwell et al and wheelie bins anymore! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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