Orlando Engelaar

[carlings]

The big man to boss us to finals, he is our saviour!

[Kiro Kompiro]

Sorry to put a break on the circle jerk but I think he will be gone at the end of the season.

 

IMO we will get a big name overseas marquee, and I can see Josh Kennedy as` the Aus`marquee.  The owners have already commented about the market needing to be opened up tells me they will spend on players, and this really is the only way they can do it outside of the cap.  Might even get an under 21 Aus marquee as well.

[belaguttman]

I read on 4-4-2 that Josh Kennedy is a MV member. Don't know if that is true

[jw1739]

Sorry to put a break on the circle jerk but I think he will be gone at the end of the season.

 

IMO we will get a big name overseas marquee, and I can see Josh Kennedy as` the Aus`marquee.  The owners have already commented about the market needing to be opened up tells me they will spend on players, and this really is the only way they can do it outside of the cap.  Might even get an under 21 Aus marquee as well.

Suspect you're right there KK. My guess is that all our visa players will be gone at the end of the season as the new owners seek to fill the squad with players who meet their requirements on the desired approach to the game.

[Tommykins]

Who knows, Engelaar might be keen to stay on as not a marquee, its going to be exciting next year.

[CityHeart]

can a player sign on for Manchester City in the UK, and be loaned to us for 'unders' (salary) so Engelaar can effectively be paid as a regular here, but receive supplementary money from the UK?

 

Can the FFA stop this? How could they?

[Tony999]

I will personally chip in and slip it under the table if it was to exceed the salary cap. We have been deprived of good football for so long I would do anything these days!

[Embee]

I read on 4-4-2 that Josh Kennedy is a MV member. Don't know if that is true

 

He probably is. He may have taken it up because some of his mates play there/he wanted to be involved and support our new league.

 

That being said, I hardly think it'd impact his decision on where to play. I don't think there's many A-League quality players who wouldn't want to play under this new regime once we get started.

 

To CityHeart: Interesting though. City(Or New York for that matter) could theoretically sign someone, pay for them with money they've theoretically allocated to running the Heart and then send them down here for a subsidized wage. FFA couldn't do anything about it unless they changed the loan rules which would hamstring the entire league.

Edited January 23, 2014 by King Malta

[sharpy]

 

I read on 4-4-2 that Josh Kennedy is a MV member. Don't know if that is true

 

He probably is. He may have taken it up because some of his mates play there/he wanted to be involved and support our new league.

 

That being said, I hardly think it'd impact his decision on where to play. I don't think there's many A-League quality players who wouldn't want to play under this new regime once we get started.

 

To CityHeart: Interesting though. City(Or New York for that matter) could theoretically sign someone, pay for them with money they've theoretically allocated to running the Heart and then send them down here for a subsidized wage. FFA couldn't do anything about it unless they changed the loan rules which would hamstring the entire league.

 

 

I generally hope they don't do that as it is unethical and not what i'd like our club to be about.

 

Genuine City contracted players, that is ok, but not signing someone as a City player, with the sole intention of loaning them out to us to beat the salary cap.

[Embee]

 

 

I read on 4-4-2 that Josh Kennedy is a MV member. Don't know if that is true

 

He probably is. He may have taken it up because some of his mates play there/he wanted to be involved and support our new league.

 

That being said, I hardly think it'd impact his decision on where to play. I don't think there's many A-League quality players who wouldn't want to play under this new regime once we get started.

 

To CityHeart: Interesting though. City(Or New York for that matter) could theoretically sign someone, pay for them with money they've theoretically allocated to running the Heart and then send them down here for a subsidized wage. FFA couldn't do anything about it unless they changed the loan rules which would hamstring the entire league.

 

 

I generally hope they don't do that as it is unethical and not what i'd like our club to be about.

 

Genuine City contracted players, that is ok, but not signing someone as a City player, with the sole intention of loaning them out to us to beat the salary cap.

 

Couldn't agree more Sharpy.

 

I don't want us to be seen as the guys that cheat the system, I'd rather us be the guys that used the recruitment system to find the best possible marquees (which, hey, we can pay a little more for than other teams can....Sydney have done that for years) and then use our new Youth Academies/Facilities to train and utilize the best young Australian talent while helping City nurture their young talent. And that's exactly what i think we will do. I don't think City will have us beat up on the league just for shits and giggles, that would make the whole venture rather pointless

[Kiro Kompiro]

Well according to some City posters yesterday, Man City's model is to develop their own youth in the next few years rather than buy success as they have up until now which they needed to do be successful quickly in the EPL.

 

They have said that they will also implement change quickly once decisions are made, which means I believe we will get an international marquee, and an Australian marquee next season.

[Dylan]

 

 

 

I read on 4-4-2 that Josh Kennedy is a MV member. Don't know if that is true

 

He probably is. He may have taken it up because some of his mates play there/he wanted to be involved and support our new league.

 

That being said, I hardly think it'd impact his decision on where to play. I don't think there's many A-League quality players who wouldn't want to play under this new regime once we get started.

 

To CityHeart: Interesting though. City(Or New York for that matter) could theoretically sign someone, pay for them with money they've theoretically allocated to running the Heart and then send them down here for a subsidized wage. FFA couldn't do anything about it unless they changed the loan rules which would hamstring the entire league.

 

 

I generally hope they don't do that as it is unethical and not what i'd like our club to be about.

 

Genuine City contracted players, that is ok, but not signing someone as a City player, with the sole intention of loaning them out to us to beat the salary cap.

 

Couldn't agree more Sharpy.

 

I don't want us to be seen as the guys that cheat the system, I'd rather us be the guys that used the recruitment system to find the best possible marquees (which, hey, we can pay a little more for than other teams can....Sydney have done that for years) and then use our new Youth Academies/Facilities to train and utilize the best young Australian talent while helping City nurture their young talent. And that's exactly what i think we will do. I don't think City will have us beat up on the league just for shits and giggles, that would make the whole venture rather pointless

 

 

 

Two options, cheat the system or wear sky blue. all roads lead to sydney fc

[NewConvert]

I am pretty sure that the FFA would have clauses about third party agreements. Yes the money could be paid O/S but the FFA could deduct points to the club never the less. So I can't see this happening.

The new management will be keen to improve things quickly but I don't think that it will be at the expense of ruining their reputation. Right now for me the playing list is second to the selection of the new coach panel and in this area there is no limit.

[jw1739]

Sydney and that other (smaller) Melbourne club have been cheating the system for years. Not that I want us to do it, but what's within the rules is within the rules.

 

But I don't see us as being "run" from overseas. I read it that we have access to the resources of the "City Group." After they appoint the major admin staff (Head Coach, CEO, Football Manager and maybe a couple more) then those local senior local executives will run MHFC with our own identity and a large degree of independence. If you read about what's happening in New York, the NY coach will select his players, not Manchester City.

 

Of course there will be exchanges of players and staff. You don't set up any global organisation without having such exchanges, because you would be negating one of the major benefits of setting up a global organisation in the first place.

 

Personally I'm salivating at the thought that as from yesterday we have 36 scouts looking for players suitable to play for Heart from next season on. 

 

"Seismic change" is not an understatement. I'm still coming to terms with being a part of it!

[Tony999]

Sydney and that other (smaller) Melbourne club have been cheating the system for years. Not that I want us to do it, but what's within the rules is within the rules.

 

But I don't see us as being "run" from overseas. I read it that we have access to the resources of the "City Group." After they appoint the major admin staff (Head Coach, CEO, Football Manager and maybe a couple more) then those local senior local executives will run MHFC with our own identity and a large degree of independence. If you read about what's happening in New York, the NY coach will select his players, not Manchester City.

 

Of course there will be exchanges of players and staff. You don't set up any global organisation without having such exchanges, because you would be negating one of the major benefits of setting up a global organisation in the first place.

 

Personally I'm salivating at the thought that as from yesterday we have 36 scouts looking for players suitable to play for Heart from next season on. 

 

"Seismic change" is not an understatement. I'm still coming to terms with being a part of it!

 

Marvelous!

[kingofhearts]

Maybe we can finally have a decent pre-season for a change instead of playing against the la trobe 11 misfits?

[sharpy]

Maybe we can finally have a decent pre-season for a change instead of playing against the la trobe 11 misfuds?

 

Edited for accuracy of skill level.

[cadete]

Maybe we can finally have a decent pre-season for a change instead of playing against the la trobe 11 misfits?

I liked watching Eli score a hatrick and destroy the Eagle Bar Midgets.

Edited January 24, 2014 by cadete

[Dylan]

had to pay for lunch

 

Harry Kewell ‏@HarryKewellJan 21

Thanks for shouting lunch for me and the boys Orlando #NextTimeDontBeLate

 

Expand

Edited January 24, 2014 by Dylan

[ThePolo]

That red Card tonight was very week, even the fox sports team felt it was to harsh. Not to mention that the sydney players new it was yellow

[SF33]

That red Card tonight was very week, even the fox sports team felt it was to harsh. Not to mention that the sydney players new it was yellow

 

Hugely disappointing, though it's hard to get too down after tonight's performance. The last thing we needed right now from Engelaar is for him to play 20-odd minutes total in two weeks.

[bt50]

How good was he before he was sent off! What a boss!

[LR9]

Edited January 31, 2014 by LR9

[Libero]

it was a red imo.

 

if it was a Sydney player who did it to one of our boys, we wouldve been filthy. 

[ThePolo]

andy harper after the game even said that when the referee watches the replay, he will think and realise that he went in to hard with the red

[Murfy1]

Melbourne, Sydney coaches say the referee got it wrong

 

Michael Lynch

 

February 1, 2014

 

Melbourne Heart boss John van't Schip and his Sydney counterpart Frank Farina were in agreement about one thing after 10-man Heart had come from behind to down Sydney 2-1 in a thrilling contest at AAMI Park on Friday night: that Heart's Dutch international midfielder Orlando Engelaar should not have been sent off by referee Jarred Gillett.

 

Van't Schip has now presided over Heart for five matches, and the club has taken eight points - double the tally it amassed in the first 12 games of the season under previous coach John Aloisi, who was sacked just after Christmas.

 

While finals are a long way off - the team would probably need to win eight of its last 10 games to stand a chance - the coach is delighted at the improvement in his team.

 

Van't Schip was full of praise for striker David Williams, whose wonderful individual goal in the dying minutes of the game won all three points for Heart, and also Argentine utility Jonatan Germano, whose aggression and energy makes such a difference to his team's midfield.

 

Things could, of course, have been very different for the hosts had Engelaar not been dismissed in the first half.

 

The lanky midfielder was shown a red card in the 33rd minute for a late challenge on Sydney youngster Hagi Gligor, with replays suggesting the Dutchman had slid in with his studs up.

 

But it certainly didn't look as if the challenge carried any malicious intent and neither van't Schip nor Farina thought he should have been sent off.

 

''I didn't think it was a red card,'' the Sydney boss said. ''It was a very harsh decision.''

 

Farina felt that in general Gillett had been too card happy, dispensing four yellows to Sydney players.

 

Van't Schip queried whether Engelaar even deserved a caution at all.

 

''Personally I think it was a very hard decision, although it was a foul,'' he said.

 

''He [Engelaar] misjudged the situation, the pitch was a little bit wet, he didn't hit the player hard.

 

''I think the referee could have thought a few seconds longer before immediately getting out his red card.

 

''It was not a tackle to break someone's leg.''

 

Van't Schip said he was delighted for Williams to score such a spectacular winner, as he was coming back from injury.

 

''It was a fantastic goal, a special goal for him.''

 

But van't Schip said Williams and the rest of the squad had to continue improving to ensure Heart finished the season strongly.

 

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/melbourne-sydney-coaches-say-the-referee-got-it-wrong-20140131-31t22.html

[Viva el City]

There was no context taken into account when the ref gave him a straight red - he's coming back from injury and not fully match sharp - there was no malice in tackle whatsoever, it was clumsy but not deliberate.  I really thought he'd killed the match when he sent him off.  Thankfully they fought back.

[kingofhearts]

it was a red imo.

 

if it was a Sydney player who did it to one of our boys, we wouldve been filthy. 

Agree with this. Especially when you leave the ground with your studs up your always in trouble. Just a bad challenge for a bloke who should know better. I know it's only his 3 game for months but still, it was pretty clumsy

 

There was no context taken into account when the ref gave him a straight red - he's coming back from injury and not fully match sharp - there was no malice in tackle whatsoever, it was clumsy but not deliberate.  I really thought he'd killed the match when he sent him off.  Thankfully they fought back.

Don't know when this has ever been taken into account when a refs making a decision tbh.

 for a player of his calliber.

[Murfy1]

It was a bad call IMO. Should have been a yellow, not a red.

 

The ref didn't take the context into consideration, such as the fact that Engelaar was moving only a little quicker than a snail. The slowness of the challenge is something you completely miss when you just cherrypick a still photo of the incident. Also, he largely tried to pull out of the challenge, which is why his leg is so bent, so there was clearly no malicious intent whatsoever.

 

The ref was too card-happy, and just pounced on the fact that there were studs showing. Just about everything else though goes against it being red.

 

 

Even though it was a poor tackle, I'm glad to see Engelaar trying to do a bit more defensive work, as he did precious little in his debut game against the Jets. IMO he still needs to get used to the league, and its referees, but I'll be pleased if he's doing more tackles and more defensive work in future games.

[Viva el City]

It's down to the ref to judge intent, which should play a part in his decision on the colour of the card.  I think it was obvious Engelaar didn't intend to hurt him, I don't even think he wanted to foul him since there were team mates close by.  He was late caused by rustiness.

[ForestHeart]

It's down to the ref to judge intent, which should play a part in his decision on the colour of the card. I think it was obvious Engelaar didn't intend to hurt him, I don't even think he wanted to foul him since there were team mates close by. He was late caused by rustiness. Agree. He didn't want to hurt him and he didn't hurt him. Sydney player milked it.

[belaguttman]

it was a red imo.

 

if it was a Sydney player who did it to one of our boys, we wouldve been filthy. 

All we can do is ask for consistency in decisions, we all know that it wouldn't have been a red if ADP made the same tackle, even a double handed block of a shot in the box was ignored by the ref. We do have to judge each incident on its own merits though, I think that t was a clear yellow but a very harsh red. to those watching the HAL for the first time, you'll never complain about EPL refs again after you've watched these guys for a few games. It's the one aspect of the HAL that hasn't improved from season 1 because the FFA refuses to fund professional refs.

Edited February 1, 2014 by belaguttman

[United]

I wasnt supportive of JA as head coach from the get go,but i will admit he had a bit of bad luck in his spell regarding players out injured and so on.

Judging by his 30mins last night Engelaar wouldve made a difference on the pitch had it not been for his injury, and perhaps JA wouldve faired better results wise, but in the end i believe JA wasnt the man for the team regardless.

[hedaik]

I wasnt supportive of JA as head coach from the get go,but i will admit he had a bit of bad luck in his spell regarding players out injured and so on.

Judging by his 30mins last night Engelaar wouldve made a difference on the pitch had it not been for his injury, and perhaps JA wouldve faired better results wise, but in the end i believe JA wasnt the man for the team regardless.

 

Nobody with a straight face could say that JA would have lead the team to a win last night after being 1-0 and 1 man down. If there was ever a time to compare the difference in quality of coaches, last night was it.

[mjake1234]

I wasnt supportive of JA as head coach from the get go,but i will admit he had a bit of bad luck in his spell regarding players out injured and so on.

Judging by his 30mins last night Engelaar wouldve made a difference on the pitch had it not been for his injury, and perhaps JA wouldve faired better results wise, but in the end i believe JA wasnt the man for the team regardless.

Nobody with a straight face could say that JA would have lead the team to a win last night after being 1-0 and 1 man down. If there was ever a time to compare the difference in quality of coaches, last night was it. It's becoming more and more obvious that JA didn't have a clue about tactics, team structure and motivation.

[NewConvert]

There is one thing that can be said in favour of JA/JD and that is becoming apparent now - they seem to have assembled a reasonable team (yes there are some poor players and some good ones). Perhaps JA's calling is not coaching but talent spotting and list management.

[Kiro Kompiro]

JA throw himself in the deep end when the only stroke he knew was the dog paddle.  And the Board supplied the pool.

 

He needs to go to a State League club and prove himself.

[jw1739]

it was a red imo.

 

if it was a Sydney player who did it to one of our boys, we wouldve been filthy. 

I agree. A sloppy and stupid tackle by our marquee player, who up to then was bossing the match. As it was we went down to ten men, and he will miss the next two matches.

 

IMO that is not good enough from a guy who is on the coin he is on - whatever it is.

Edited February 1, 2014 by jw1739

[bulldozed]

[HeartMillsy29]

Orlando just didn't want to go to Albury.