City in the headlines

[Murfy1]

Melburnian, I'm not seeking to distort the facts at all. IMO it is fairly clear that without the windfall income MHFC would have made a loss, as it appears all the other clubs also did.

The fact is also that if Heart held two Melbourne derbies last season, and didn't sell any players, then we probably would have broke even or made a small profit. So we don't rely on selling players at all.

As I tried to detail in another thread, the club makes money through multiples streams, such as sponsorship, money from the FFA (a few million there alone), selling memberships, gate receipts and merchandise sales. Selling players isn't that important at all.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Murfy1

[InMyHeart]

Interested in why they call the mariners the smallest club in the A league, how are the smaller than us ?

[jw1739]

One other thing I'll throw in. AFAIK it was the view of FFA, and not specifically the MH Syndicate, that Melbourne could support two A-League clubs and that both could draw big crowds. I haven't seen what this was based on, but my understanding is that FFA had statistics showing that there were a substantial number of football followers who had not 'connected with MV' and therefore would connect with a second club.

 

It is apparent that the data substantially overestimated the numbers. IMO there's little doubt that we've attracted the 'easy' audience of 6,000-7,000. I don't think it's really fair to say that the people running the club have no idea of how to increase those numbers, because, quite frankly, I don't think anyone else knows either.

[HEARTinator]

One other thing I'll throw in. AFAIK it was the view of FFA, and not specifically the MH Syndicate, that Melbourne could support two A-League clubs and that both could draw big crowds. I haven't seen what this was based on, but my understanding is that FFA had statistics showing that there were a substantial number of football followers who had not 'connected with MV' and therefore would connect with a second club.

It is apparent that the data substantially overestimated the numbers. IMO there's little doubt that we've attracted the 'easy' audience of 6,000-7,000. I don't think it's really fair to say that the people running the club have no idea of how to increase those numbers, because, quite frankly, I don't think anyone else knows either.

http://www.pfa.net.au/fileadmin/user_upload/_temp_/FORTHEFANS.pdf

This is one of the more interesting things you'll read about Australian football just prior to the set up of the HAL. It was a proposal prepared in 2002 by the Professional Players Associations about setting up a professional Football competition in Australia. It discusses how many teams and where they should be located. It was almost the blue print for the HAL but Lowy chose a different path. But a very interesting read and we probably would be in better shape (?) now if the proposal had been adopted as presented.

Edited May 2, 2013 by HEARTinator

[Melburnian]

Melburnian, I'm not seeking to distort the facts at all. IMO it is fairly clear that without the windfall income MHFC would have made a loss, as it appears all the other clubs also did.

The fact is also that if Heart held two Melbourne derbies last season, and didn't sell any players, then we probably would have broke even or made a small profit. So we don't rely on selling players at all.

As I tried to detail in another thread, the club makes money through multiples streams, such as sponsorship, money from the FFA (a few million there alone), selling memberships, gate receipts and merchandise sales. Selling players isn't that important at all.

 

Fact? Well we don't host both derbies every season.

 

Also you state it's a fact then say probably. Which is it?

 

I find it highly doubtful that without the sale of players would we have broken even.

 

Also mate, every club makes money through those streams. That is not the point, do they make enough from those streams to be successful and sustainable. 

 

Our membership and attendance figures show the facts.

[biancorosso7]

Melburnian, you said the Club sold assets to make a profit above. Have to say that you can't view players as assets, but rather employees or contractors, hence the PFA negotiations. 

 

But it raises the point, what assets do Melbourne Heart have? Besides the FFA Licence, nothing really. Or is there? Should the Club start buying US Bonds to sell in 3 years for a profit?

[Murfy1]

Melburnian, I'm not seeking to distort the facts at all. IMO it is fairly clear that without the windfall income MHFC would have made a loss, as it appears all the other clubs also did.

The fact is also that if Heart held two Melbourne derbies last season, and didn't sell any players, then we probably would have broke even or made a small profit. So we don't rely on selling players at all.

As I tried to detail in another thread, the club makes money through multiples streams, such as sponsorship, money from the FFA (a few million there alone), selling memberships, gate receipts and merchandise sales. Selling players isn't that important at all.

Fact? Well we don't host both derbies every season.

Also you state it's a fact then say probably. Which is it?

I find it highly doubtful that without the sale of players would we have broken even.

Also mate, every club makes money through those streams. That is not the point, do they make enough from those streams to be successful and sustainable.

Our membership and attendance figures show the facts.

Melbourne derbies sell out AAMI park. Hence they are a real significant windfall for the club. At previous Melbourne derbies, Heart has sold around ~23,000 tickets, given that Heart already had several thousand tickets that were allocated to members. Selling ~23,000 tickets alone, assuming they are on average worth 30 dollars each (a rough but fair estimate I believe, and conservative. some tickets sell for 20 dollars, but others sell for 40, 45 +50 dollars), nets the club $690,000. And than there are lucrative sales of merchandise, and the many very expensive corporate boxes that AAMI park has. I couldn't find out exactly how much the club has actually made for each of these sell out matches, but it must be pretty close to the sum we received for selling all the players that we sold last season: a bit over a million dollars.

And it costs several million dollars per year, at the very least, to run an A-League football club. Even if my numbers are a bit short and the club would still have ran a small debt last season (if it hosted 2 Melbourne derbies and sold None of its players), the numbers are minuscule in the scheme of running a football club. Several A-League clubs, including 6 established foundation clubs, ran debts upwards of 1 million dollars over the last season (the season that just finished). Multiple A-League clubs had debts much higher than 1 million dollars. So financially Heart is at the very least as stable as the average A-League club.

Melbourne Heart will probably host two derbies next season, and then one the season after that, and two the season after that. So, in effect Heart will host 1.5 derbies each season. And this should be remembered whenever we have a one derby season, that we will get a significant amount of more money the season after.

As I've said here (http://mhfcsupporters.com/topic/1791-melbourne-heart-financial-talk/page-4) and here (http://mhfcsupporters.com/topic/1864-sponsor/) Melbourne Heart does very well overall through those other streams, and they raise most of Melbourne Heart's revenue. Heart does much better than many other A-League clubs with regards to these revenue streams. For instance, Heart has the largest NYL sponsor and one of Australia's four largest banks as its main sponsor. Meanwhile the Mariners struggle to attract sponsors, despite their fantastic on-field achievements, with their back of shirt sponsor Primo Smallgoods abandoning the club earlier this year (link).

Membership and attendance figures, I agree, are important to Melbourne Heart and all clubs. But at the same time they aren't the be all end all.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Murfy1

[belaguttman]

Melburnian, you said the Club sold assets to make a profit above. Have to say that you can't view players as assets, but rather employees or contractors, hence the PFA negotiations. 

 

But it raises the point, what assets do Melbourne Heart have? Besides the FFA Licence, nothing really. Or is there? Should the Club start buying US Bonds to sell in 3 years for a profit?

a couple of wheelie bins?

[Melburnian]

Melburnian, I'm not seeking to distort the facts at all. IMO it is fairly clear that without the windfall income MHFC would have made a loss, as it appears all the other clubs also did.

The fact is also that if Heart held two Melbourne derbies last season, and didn't sell any players, then we probably would have broke even or made a small profit. So we don't rely on selling players at all.

As I tried to detail in another thread, the club makes money through multiples streams, such as sponsorship, money from the FFA (a few million there alone), selling memberships, gate receipts and merchandise sales. Selling players isn't that important at all. Fact? Well we don't host both derbies every season.

Also you state it's a fact then say probably. Which is it?

I find it highly doubtful that without the sale of players would we have broken even.

Also mate, every club makes money through those streams. That is not the point, do they make enough from those streams to be successful and sustainable.

Our membership and attendance figures show the facts. Melbourne derbies sell out AAMI park. Hence they are a real significant windfall for the club. At previous Melbourne derbies, Heart has sold around ~23,000 tickets, given that Heart already had several thousand tickets that were allocated to members. Selling ~23,000 tickets alone, assuming they are on average worth 30 dollars each (a rough but fair estimate I believe, and conservative. some tickets sell for 20 dollars, but others sell for 40, 45 +50 dollars), nets the club $690,000. And than there are lucrative sales of merchandise, and the many very expensive corporate boxes that AAMI park has. I couldn't find out exactly how much the club has actually made for each of these sell out matches, but it must be pretty close to the sum we received for selling all the players that we sold last season: a bit over a million dollars.

And it costs several million dollars per year, at the very least, to run an A-League football club. Even if my numbers are a bit short and the club would still have ran a small debt last season (if it hosted 2 Melbourne derbies and sold None of its players), the numbers are minuscule in the scheme of running a football club. Several A-League clubs, including 6 established foundation clubs, ran debts upwards of 1 million dollars over the last season (the season that just finished). Multiple A-League clubs had debts much higher than 1 million dollars. So financially Heart is at the very least as stable as the average A-League club.

Melbourne Heart will probably host two derbies next season, and then one the season after that, and two the season after that. So, in effect Heart will host 1.5 derbies each season. And this should be remembered whenever we have a one derby season, that we will get a significant amount of more money the season after.

As I've said here (http://mhfcsupporters.com/topic/1791-melbourne-heart-financial-talk/page-4) and here (http://mhfcsupporters.com/topic/1864-sponsor/) Melbourne Heart does very well overall through those other streams, and they raise most of Melbourne Heart's revenue. Heart does much better than many other A-League clubs with regards to these revenue streams. For instance, Heart has the largest NYL sponsor and one of Australia's four largest banks as its main sponsor. Meanwhile the Mariners struggle to attract sponsors, despite their fantastic on-field achievements, with their back of shirt sponsor Primo Smallgoods abandoning the club earlier this year (link).

Membership and attendance figures, I agree, are important to Melbourne Heart and all clubs. But at the same time they aren't the be all end all.

Ok a few things here.

1. Yes we get the derby every second year. That's a fact. So in the off year we don't get it, we can't cry and say we would have done this or made that if we hosted the derby twice. This is a bonus of being a Melbourne club and something that should not be credited as sound business management.

2. We are situated in Melbourne. Not Central Coast. Of course sponsors would be wanting to join with us and they will struggle, why are we comparing us to them? We are a big market team. We need big market dollars. Right now, we are not acting or performing like a big market team.

3. You say we only lost a million dollars last season? This was with the extra derby no? Lack of selling players meant we ran at a loss. Will our board members be wiling to run at a loss most years? Cause that is the outcome from poor management. We don't have enough going for us to continually make a profit without selling our players. As I said the most important things are to increase exposure and fans and members. They have failed to do so. Now here lies the mess.

4. Membership and attendance figures along with performance on field are the be all and end all. That is the business model that will guarantee long term for the club. You be successful, you fill stadiums, you have people believe and commit to your club and feel a belonging everything else will take care of itself.

[marn11]

We will break even from selling our best young players, not from a sustainable business model. Everyone can bang on as much as they like, but this is the reality.

[biancorosso7]

Can someone specifically refer me to the statement by the Club that shows the break-even or marginal profit is because of the funds received from player sales?

Edited May 3, 2013 by biancorosso7

[jw1739]

Can someone specifically refer me to the statement by the Club that shows the break-even or marginal profit is because of the funds received from player sales?

Biancorosso7, there won't be one. The Board runs the franchise according to the agreement between the licensee(s) and FFA and complying with any statutory requirements. There will be accountabilities to employees (including players) but AFAIK there is no accountability to anyone else. The accountability to us as season ticket holders expires at the conclusion of the last home game of the season. I don't believe there is any accountability to disclose to the public any details of the financial aspects of the club.

[biancorosso7]

Can someone specifically refer me to the statement by the Club that shows the break-even or marginal profit is because of the funds received from player sales?

Biancorosso7, there won't be one. The Board runs the franchise according to the agreement between the licensee(s) and FFA and complying with any statutory requirements. There will be accountabilities to employees (including players) but AFAIK there is no accountability to anyone else. The accountability to us as season ticket holders expires at the conclusion of the last home game of the season. I don't believe there is any accountability to disclose to the public any details of the financial aspects of the club.

 

Thanks JW. I wasn't trying to be a smart ass, but simply understand how, and more correctly, if, those player fees contribute to the business structure and overall balance sheet. Unless someone joins the Board and is explained the set up, you are right in that we will never know.

[jw1739]

I agree. And, TBH, I don't see what business it is of ours anyway. I don't understand why this forum seems to be obsessed with all this navel-gazing - does any other group of supporters anywhere go on like this? Possibly if their club is about to go out of business, but that's not the case with MHFC despite the naysayers. Someone said in one thread something like 'The Board 's job is to run the club, ours is to support the club' and I wholeheartedly (no pun) agree with that.

Edited May 3, 2013 by jw1739

[Jimmy]

South Melbourne line up Emerson for Heart

Staff Writer | May 2, 2013 | View 28 comments

SOUTH Melbourne FC raised the stakes in their buyout bid for Melbourne Heart this evening and revealed they have Emerson keen on taking on the coaching job.

The former NSL side tonight confirmed they have been in talks with Melbourne Heart to take over the club from the current ownership.

In a statement released this evening, South Melbourne said they had offered more than $3.5 million to buy the club and 100 percent of the FFA-controlled licence.

They added that the offer was made after several discussions between Heart and SMFC's directors.

And they sensationally revealed the had already been in touch with Brazilian star Emerson to be the new coach of the club, replacing current coach John Aloisi.

World Cup star Emerson, 37 - who played against Aloisi at Germany 2006 - currently runs a football academy in Brazil after a top flight career with Real Madrid and Juventus.

Fellow Brazilian Emerson, 41, retired from playing in 2008, ending up in the Rio de Janiero state league after winding down his professional career in Greece.

Since then, he has been keeping a low profile and any position at Heart would be his first significant role since retiring.

South Melbourne have so far not responded to questions about which one they are in talks with, although they have had links with the former World Cup star.

The revelation came after Heart CEO Scott Munn angrily hit back at claims the club was in strife and close to agreeing a deal.

He snapped back that the club had twice been approached by SMFC about a buyout and both times the overtures had been rejected.

Heart later added that they expected to make a small profit at the end of this financial year.

[Peter]

It looks like this SM mob are pushing quite hard. I for one will spend more time fishing if anything like this goes ahead. Having followed the NSL, I have no desire to have anything to do with SMFC. Should this happen I will concentrate soley on football overseas. There has been enough non-sense with the A-League in it's short history with NQF and Gold Coast without this rubbish.

[Melburnian]

As a supporter I'm not happy turning up to 3, 4, 5 or 6,000 fans in an elite stadium. I'm not happy to the incompetence of management in not building the club to be a success. I am not happy making bone head decisions and finishing second last.

As a supporter we have every right to question to going ons at the club we put time and effort and money into. Not everyone is happy to see rainbows and follow shitness.

If you demand the best in life you want to do something about it. I tried. I have a lot. Put more time into this club than I could afford to. But alas I know there are brick walls and have an understanding on what's the problem at the club and without change it won't improve.

This is why I want change. Board members, management and right through.

I think every season ticket holder should demand excellence. If that's not you and your happy to sit back and not worry good on you. That ain't me. I want excellence. Or a want to be the best. I just don't and have never seen it at this club.

Isn't it common sense to know if the club broke even, without the sales of players we would have run at a loss?

As I said, that doesn't have to be a bad thing to run at a loss but I am of the opinion our owners are not willing to keep investing. Well there's a problem with that isn't there? Something doesn't add up to me. We are looking around the world for investors, our owners are not wanting to lose anymore money, what picture does this paint? Our club won't be around as we know it. This South Melbourne offer is just the start. People can see what is happening.

At the last game and the weeks to follow the clear incompetence of the club was highlighted to me. Ignoring or glossing over mistakes wasn't going to cut it anymore for me. I want the Melbourne Heart to be a success.

Simple fact. We won't be with the current regime at the helm.

[Deviant]

cool, they propose to change the current 'coach with no experience apart from youth' with another 'coach with no experience apart from youth'... 

 

they have 3.5 million to spend... spend it on your own club and get ready for the introduction of the relegation system!!!

[Deviant]

As a supporter I'm not happy turning up to 3, 4, 5 or 6,000 fans in an elite stadium. I'm not happy to the incompetence of management in not building the club to be a success. I am not happy making bone head decisions and finishing second last.

As a supporter we have every right to question to going ons at the club we put time and effort and money into. Not everyone is happy to see rainbows and follow shitness.

If you demand the best in life you want to do something about it. I tried. I have a lot. Put more time into this club than I could afford to. But alas I know there are brick walls and have an understanding on what's the problem at the club and without change it won't improve.

This is why I want change. Board members, management and right through.

I think every season ticket holder should demand excellence. If that's not you and your happy to sit back and not worry good on you. That ain't me. I want excellence. Or a want to be the best. I just don't and have never seen it at this club.

Isn't it common sense to know if the club broke even, without the sales of players we would have run at a loss?

As I said, that doesn't have to be a bad thing to run at a loss but I am of the opinion our owners are not willing to keep investing. Well there's a problem with that isn't there? Something doesn't add up to me. We are looking around the world for investors, our owners are not wanting to lose anymore money, what picture does this paint? Our club won't be around as we know it. This South Melbourne offer is just the start. People can see what is happening.

At the last game and the weeks to follow the clear incompetence of the club was highlighted to me. Ignoring or glossing over mistakes wasn't going to cut it anymore for me. I want the Melbourne Heart to be a success.

Simple fact. We won't be with the current regime at the helm.

 

This is all legitimate and 100% correct... but it's only skimming the topic at hand. 

How much slack has JD copped because of his roots with Melb Knights. Same will happen, from even more people, if SMFC 'take over'.

It's hard to explain without spending half a day typing an essay on here... and even then, people wouldn't read long posts and asking questions that are already answered 42342342342342 times before. lol.

 

'Mediocrity is not accepted. Excellence is demanded!' (good slogan)  no more excuses. We get it, we support it. - But it's easier said than done.

[biancorosso7]

As a supporter I'm not happy turning up to 3, 4, 5 or 6,000 fans in an elite stadium. I'm not happy to the incompetence of management in not building the club to be a success. I am not happy making bone head decisions and finishing second last.

As a supporter we have every right to question to going ons at the club we put time and effort and money into. Not everyone is happy to see rainbows and follow shitness.

If you demand the best in life you want to do something about it. I tried. I have a lot. Put more time into this club than I could afford to. But alas I know there are brick walls and have an understanding on what's the problem at the club and without change it won't improve.

(1) This is why I want change. Board members, management and right through.

I think every season ticket holder should demand excellence. If that's not you and your happy to sit back and not worry good on you. That ain't me. I want excellence. Or a want to be the best. I just don't and have never seen it at this club.

(2) Isn't it common sense to know if the club broke even, without the sales of players we would have run at a loss?

As I said, that doesn't have to be a bad thing to run at a loss but I am of the opinion our owners are not willing to keep investing. Well there's a problem with that isn't there? Something doesn't add up to me. We are looking around the world for investors, our owners are not wanting to lose anymore money, what picture does this paint? Our club won't be around as we know it. This South Melbourne offer is just the start. People can see what is happening.

At the last game and the weeks to follow the clear incompetence of the club was highlighted to me. Ignoring or glossing over mistakes wasn't going to cut it anymore for me. I want the Melbourne Heart to be a success.

Simple fact. We won't be with the current regime at the helm.

 

All perfectly legitimate things to say.

 

(1) - How do you suggest such a change, short of a partial or full acquisition?

 

(2) - I don't think it is because of the point that we are not privy to the internal workings of the Club.

[jw1739]

As a supporter I'm not happy turning up to 3, 4, 5 or 6,000 fans in an elite stadium. I'm not happy to the incompetence of management in not building the club to be a success. I am not happy making bone head decisions and finishing second last.

As a supporter we have every right to question to going ons at the club we put time and effort and money into. Not everyone is happy to see rainbows and follow shitness.

If you demand the best in life you want to do something about it. I tried. I have a lot. Put more time into this club than I could afford to. But alas I know there are brick walls and have an understanding on what's the problem at the club and without change it won't improve.

This is why I want change. Board members, management and right through.

I think every season ticket holder should demand excellence. If that's not you and your happy to sit back and not worry good on you. That ain't me. I want excellence. Or a want to be the best. I just don't and have never seen it at this club.

Isn't it common sense to know if the club broke even, without the sales of players we would have run at a loss?

As I said, that doesn't have to be a bad thing to run at a loss but I am of the opinion our owners are not willing to keep investing. Well there's a problem with that isn't there? Something doesn't add up to me. We are looking around the world for investors, our owners are not wanting to lose anymore money, what picture does this paint? Our club won't be around as we know it. This South Melbourne offer is just the start. People can see what is happening.

At the last game and the weeks to follow the clear incompetence of the club was highlighted to me. Ignoring or glossing over mistakes wasn't going to cut it anymore for me. I want the Melbourne Heart to be a success.

Simple fact. We won't be with the current regime at the helm.

Melburnian, this forum is headed 'Melbourne Heart FC Supporters.' Mate, I've taken a lot of notice of what you've said over the months, and you're entitled to your points of view and to express them on here, but it's just become repetitive whinging. If you are a supporter, lay off the criticism of everybody and everything.

[belaguttman]

I think that it's important that our views are challenged here and we don't all think the same, we all want our club to succeed though

[mattyh001]

As a supporter I'm not happy turning up to 3, 4, 5 or 6,000 fans in an elite stadium. I'm not happy to the incompetence of management in not building the club to be a success. I am not happy making bone head decisions and finishing second last.

As a supporter we have every right to question to going ons at the club we put time and effort and money into. Not everyone is happy to see rainbows and follow shitness.

If you demand the best in life you want to do something about it. I tried. I have a lot. Put more time into this club than I could afford to. But alas I know there are brick walls and have an understanding on what's the problem at the club and without change it won't improve.

This is why I want change. Board members, management and right through.

I think every season ticket holder should demand excellence. If that's not you and your happy to sit back and not worry good on you. That ain't me. I want excellence. Or a want to be the best. I just don't and have never seen it at this club.

Isn't it common sense to know if the club broke even, without the sales of players we would have run at a loss?

As I said, that doesn't have to be a bad thing to run at a loss but I am of the opinion our owners are not willing to keep investing. Well there's a problem with that isn't there? Something doesn't add up to me. We are looking around the world for investors, our owners are not wanting to lose anymore money, what picture does this paint? Our club won't be around as we know it. This South Melbourne offer is just the start. People can see what is happening.

At the last game and the weeks to follow the clear incompetence of the club was highlighted to me. Ignoring or glossing over mistakes wasn't going to cut it anymore for me. I want the Melbourne Heart to be a success.

Simple fact. We won't be with the current regime at the helm.

 

What you raise are some very valid considerations.  The team has been very inconsistent on the park, which has not been helped by starting out with an experienced youth focused coach and moving to a guy with no experience and no real plan B.  They need to sort out what they want and ensure they get it known / accepted in the stands.

 

As hard as it is to accept it with Victory, their early success (despite how shite it was to watch) helped grow them to being the only club to pass 15,000 members regularly.  Melbourne wants a successful brand.

 

All that being said, how immediate do you want this?  You really need to think about it - take some time.  Part of the problem is that Victory have market domination.  To purely chase success at any cost puts the clubs finances at risk.  And while the money involved / being risked is that of the investors, they are the ones who get ultimate say.  Sometimes we need to remember we pay memberships to watch football, not vote in elections and on club decisions.  

 

Yes, walking away / not attending games as a united group of club fans can have an impact, but it no more than an ultimatum - something that only shows we have no real power over the key decisions.  We are relying on too many people to do this as club members to have massive impact - ie scare the shite out of the board to make change.

 

Personally, the decisions of the club is largely attempting to set the club up financially and thus something I largely appreciate.  An act of consolidation.  The last thing I want is to see the team turn into a North Queensland Fury.

[Murfy1]

I'm pressed for time as the moment, so I'm going to argue everything as succinctly as I can.

It was announced last season (that is the 2012-2013 season) by the Chairman of the Board of Melbourne Heart, Peter Sidwell, that it costs $9.5 million to run the club EACH YEAR. The very fact that Heart has managed to make a small profit after its third season is an achievement. 6 established foundation clubs, 5 with cities all to themselves (the other club being Sydney Fc, which rolls in money) ran at a loss this season. Comparatively, Heart is as financially stable and sustainable as any other club.

Now about how Heart made a small profit. Do you think that Heart got 7 or 8 MILLION DOLLARS from selling players? No, of course not. At the very most, including the sale of players before last season (2012-13) and during last season, Heart made maybe 2 million dollars. Where did the other 8 million dollars come from? Mainly from sponsorship, club memberships and and tickets to attend games. So, despite Heart having a limited amount of members and people who attend home games at the moment, the club still raised so much money from its supporters and from other sources like sponsorship that it was able to be apart of the, at most, 3 clubs that broke even or made a profit last season.

On investors being interested in Heart, a few things need to be remembered. The first is that Heart's first investors demanded that IF new investors we going to put some money into Heart, the first investors would still steer the direction of the club and how it is managed. Second, more money is often a good thing, so investment in itself isn't a problem. Brisbane are largely invested in by an Indonesian group, which isn't a problem as they have allowed Brisbane Roar to continue to be managed in the fashion that it was before. And finally, people have wanted Heart to step up the money it spends for a while. Having a larger base of investors is a sure and sustainable way to do that. And that the first investors said it was "non-negotiable" that they would steer the direction of the club, it is clear that Heart's initial backers plan to stick around for the long term.

It should also be remembered that the club said a few months ago that they would spend more on our footballers and on our football resources and training facilities. This statement was made March 29:

Heart chief executive Scott Munn refused to discuss marquees specifically but revealed that the owners would be loosening the purse strings next season.

"The board have agreed to invest greater funds on the football budget next year and we expect that will result in an improved performance on the pitch," Munn said.

"That's predominantly for the playing budget. But marquees a completely separate conversation

And recently the club has said it plans to spend more money in "areas such as marketing, advertising and most importantly the footy department."

I'm afraid some supporters have let paranoia, hysteria and cynicism completely possess their relationship with the Club. Of course, it is perfectly fine to regularly ponder and ask for things to be better, and some skepticism is healthy. But IMO a few supporters are all to eager to buy into the myths peddled by Victory supporters and some South Melbourne supporters that Melbourne Heart just can't do things right. I think that's a real unfortunate state of affairs, as I believe it is vital for supporters to have belief in their club. Not mindless and unquestioning obedience, rather just a belief that things will get better. And that when something happens, like the club saying that it will significantly spend more on players, that such an event can be seen as an opportunity for betterment, rather than first being doubted that it will happen, and then second being doubted that it will work. I find it incredible that people can be so pessimistic over how Heart will fare next season, given that we only have 14 players at the moment!

Well, I honestly tried to be brief, but I guess you can't discuss so many detailed matters without going into some length. I could speak much longer about each individual issue that's relevant to Heart, but I won't be able to respond for a little while, as I said at the start.

Edited May 3, 2013 by Murfy1

[kingofhearts]

I'm pressed for time as the moment, so I'm going to argue everything as succinctly as I can.

It was announced last season (that is the 2012-2013 season) by the Chairman of the Board of Melbourne Heart, Peter Sidwell, that it costs $9.5 million to run the club EACH YEAR. The very fact that Heart has managed to make a small profit after its third season is an achievement. 6 established foundation clubs, 5 with cities all to themselves (the other club being Sydney Fc, which rolls in money) ran at a loss this season. Comparatively, Heart is as financially stable and sustainable as any other club.

Now about how Heart made a small profit. Do you think that Heart got 7 or 8 MILLION DOLLARS from selling players? No, of course not. At the very most, including the sale of players before last season (2012-13) and during last season, Heart made maybe 2 million dollars. Where did the other 8 million dollars come from? Mainly from sponsorship, club memberships and and tickets to attend games. So, despite Heart having a limited amount of members and people who attend home games at the moment, the club still raised so much money from its supporters and from other sources like sponsorship that it was able to be apart of the, at most, 3 clubs that broke even or made a profit last season.

On investors being interested in Heart, a few things need to be remembered. The first is that Heart's first investors demanded that IF new investors we going to put some money into Heart, the first investors would still steer the direction of the club and how it is managed. Second, more money is often a good thing, so investment in itself isn't a problem. Brisbane are largely invested in by an Indonesian group, which isn't a problem as they have allowed Brisbane Roar to continue to be managed in the fashion that it was before. And finally, people have wanted Heart to step up the money it spends for a while. Having a larger base of investors is a sure and sustainable way to do that. And that the first investors said it was "non-negotiable" that they would steer the direction of the club, it is clear that Heart's initial backers plan to stick around for the long term.

It should also be remembered that the club said a few months ago that they would spend more on our footballers and on our football resources and training facilities. This statement was made March 29:

Heart chief executive Scott Munn refused to discuss marquees specifically but revealed that the owners would be loosening the purse strings next season.

"The board have agreed to invest greater funds on the football budget next year and we expect that will result in an improved performance on the pitch," Munn said.

"That's predominantly for the playing budget. But marquees a completely separate conversation

And recently the club has said it plans to spend more money in "areas such as marketing, advertising and most importantly the footy department."

I'm afraid some supporters have let paranoia, hysteria and cynicism completely possess their relationship with the Club. Of course, it is perfectly fine to regularly ponder and ask for things to be better, and some skepticism is healthy. But IMO a few supporters are all to eager to buy into the myths peddled by Victory supporters and some South Melbourne supporters that Melbourne Heart just can't do things right. I think that's a real unfortunate state of affairs, as I believe it is vital for supporters to have belief in their club. Not mindless and unquestioning obedience, rather just a belief that things will get better. And that when something happens, like the club saying that it will significantly spend more on players, that such an event can be seen as an opportunity for betterment, rather than first being doubted that it will happen, and then second being doubted that it will work. I find it incredible that people can be so pessimistic over how Heart will fare next season, given that we only have 14 players at the moment!

Well, I honestly tried to be brief, but I guess you can't discuss so many detailed matters without going into some length. I could speak much longer about each individual issue that's relevant to Heart, but I won't be able to respond for a little while, as I said at the start.

If the heart staff truly read this form they should be trying to sign this guy up to the club! Top post

[belaguttman]

As a supporter I'm not happy turning up to 3, 4, 5 or 6,000 fans in an elite stadium. I'm not happy to the incompetence of management in not building the club to be a success. I am not happy making bone head decisions and finishing second last.

As a supporter we have every right to question to going ons at the club we put time and effort and money into. Not everyone is happy to see rainbows and follow shitness.

If you demand the best in life you want to do something about it. I tried. I have a lot. Put more time into this club than I could afford to. But alas I know there are brick walls and have an understanding on what's the problem at the club and without change it won't improve.

This is why I want change. Board members, management and right through.

I think every season ticket holder should demand excellence. If that's not you and your happy to sit back and not worry good on you. That ain't me. I want excellence. Or a want to be the best. I just don't and have never seen it at this club.

Isn't it common sense to know if the club broke even, without the sales of players we would have run at a loss?

As I said, that doesn't have to be a bad thing to run at a loss but I am of the opinion our owners are not willing to keep investing. Well there's a problem with that isn't there? Something doesn't add up to me. We are looking around the world for investors, our owners are not wanting to lose anymore money, what picture does this paint? Our club won't be around as we know it. This South Melbourne offer is just the start. People can see what is happening.

At the last game and the weeks to follow the clear incompetence of the club was highlighted to me. Ignoring or glossing over mistakes wasn't going to cut it anymore for me. I want the Melbourne Heart to be a success.

Simple fact. We won't be with the current regime at the helm.

 

What you raise are some very valid considerations.  The team has been very inconsistent on the park, which has not been helped by starting out with an experienced youth focused coach and moving to a guy with no experience and no real plan B.  They need to sort out what they want and ensure they get it known / accepted in the stands.

 

As hard as it is to accept it with Victory, their early success (despite how shite it was to watch) helped grow them to being the only club to pass 15,000 members regularly.  Melbourne wants a successful brand.

 

All that being said, how immediate do you want this?  You really need to think about it - take some time.  Part of the problem is that Victory have market domination.  To purely chase success at any cost puts the clubs finances at risk.  And while the money involved / being risked is that of the investors, they are the ones who get ultimate say.  Sometimes we need to remember we pay memberships to watch football, not vote in elections and on club decisions.  

 

Yes, walking away / not attending games as a united group of club fans can have an impact, but it no more than an ultimatum - something that only shows we have no real power over the key decisions.  We are relying on too many people to do this as club members to have massive impact - ie scare the shite out of the board to make change.

 

Personally, the decisions of the club is largely attempting to set the club up financially and thus something I largely appreciate.  An act of consolidation.  The last thing I want is to see the team turn into a North Queensland Fury.

The problem for both Melbourne teams now is that the easy membership gains have already occurred. MV had 5 years of clean air and hoovered up most of the committed football fans, Heart picked up the rest. That equals about 22,000 members between the clubs. There are many more but they are either Euro-snobs who wouldn't consider going to a local game of fully committed to their VPL or other teams. Heart needs to appeal to a different type of casual fan or uncommitted sport lovers who will watch the game with an open mind, and who we must convert into educated passionate members who attend regularly. We have to have a clear consistent style to present to these future fans, sure we need to remain financially viable but we also need support from FFA to present a clear strong on-field style that we can consistently implement, and do it every year.

 

We have frittered away our whole JVS legacy last season, the commonest comment on every forum is that we stand for nothing except being 'not Victory'. Our shocking season has made us look vulnerable and makes the Board appear uninterested in success. The South Melbourne 'sharks' circling are an inevitable consequence - they see CCM as being financially mortally wounded and us as being dead in the water. I don't believe that these perceptions reflect the reality, however these perceptions will not attract us any additional support from the community, at least CCM has been successful on the field. The place to answer these criticisms is on the pitch and really the next season is absolutely crucial in that we don't just have to 'get back on track' but we need to make an emphatic statement about what we stand for, what our style is and publicly aim to be ambitious. I understand why the Board has decided to back John Aloisi during and after a poor season, however after what happened to Mehmet & 'Moe' Magilton at MV, and then last season to Crook and Ferguson and Herbert, the club just appears to be happy with mediocracy or even worse as long as they aren't losing money. It needs to be more than repositioning our brand or re-launching our brand, we need to be successful, and we need to do it next season. AFL is vulnerable at the moment as it's seen as too corporate and out of touch and now tainted by systematic doping, there's no better time for us.

Edited May 3, 2013 by belaguttman

[Semper Cor]

IMO, I think the FFA has been let off a little too lightly on this issue of increasing supporter and membership numbers amongst clubs.  Sure it is part of every club’s agenda to increase supporter and membership base, as well it should, but it’s also in the interest of the FFA this happens as well.

 

The FFA is in charge of administering football at all levels in this country. However, I believe the A-League is now the main source of promotion for the sport of football in Australia.  It used to be the Socceroos and their success in qualifying and performing in World Cups.  Now, it is the A-League because it is an annual event as opposed to something that happens every four years.

 

I agree with another poster that the current market for tapping into and attracting football fans is more than likely maxxed-out.  This market is more than likely made up of football fans and semi-interested football fans that existed prior to A-League formation.  The visitors have around 15,000 members, the Heart around 7,000 (please correct me if I’m too inaccurate).  This number appears to be consistent over the years, reinforcing the notion that with respect to attracting new supporters and members, we have reached maximum market threshold.  Despite club marketing, positioning or branding, or even how well a team performs on the pitch, it appears that we’re more than likely not going to see any significantly more members signing up anytime soon, (key term being significantly).

 

Hence the FFA’s failure.  It is the responsibility of the FFA, not necessarily the clubs, to grow the sport in this country.  They have had eight plus years to plan and implement the A-League, and whilst they’ve done some things well, they have yet to fully promote and capitalise on this sport from my point of view.  Outrageously high junior membership fees at grassroots level, little to no presence in all forms of media and the only place to watch A-League matches is on Pay TV, of which only of relatively small percentage of households have.  And with the new Pay TV deal with Foxtel moving forward, it looks like the trend of hiding the best sporting competition in Australia from the wider public will continue. 

 

Sure there will be a single live game shown per week on SBS, but remember the reason why the NSL was disbanded in the first place – because NSL clubs were too ethnically aligned to some communities, which stifled and prevented growth.  Showing games on SBS will not remedy this, because, you guessed it, the majority of mainstream sporting or otherwise Australians still perceive SBS to be an ethnically driven station.  Therefore this move will only be attracting current football fans, not enticing new and potential football fans.

 

FFA, grow the game!  Capitalise on the sport which has the highest participation rate amongst boys and girls across the country, and more than healthy numbers amongst men and women.  Capitalise on the sport which is consistently played at healthy levels across all States and not just some like other sports.  Capitalise on the sport that is already international and that can link up with neighbours Asia with a potential footballing market of 1 billion plus people.

 

But most of all grow the game, grow the market to tap into with the aim of attracting new fans to the sport, so clubs like Melbourne Heart will have the opportunity to do what they need to do, what they have to do, to increase supporter and membership numbers, and ultimately exist.  This will not only help all A-League clubs, but in the long run, it will help the FFA and the sport of football in this country.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Semper Cor

[Melburnian]

I think that it's important that our views are challenged here and we don't all think the same, we all want our club to succeed though

Cheers Bella. I didn't know we'd all have to conform to follow the club like a fucking cult.

[Heart of Melbourne]

I read the paper this morning and see a statement from Lyall Gorman that Western Sydney is going to be as big as Collingwood and the Broncos. Our board has no direction. We have idiots running the club. I read on Foxsports that Bosnich as all for a Heart Merger. Maybe he is right. Maybe this needs to happen. I feel that we will be left behind espcecially if we have another bad season. Fuck I hope we sign some good players this season.

[HEARTinator]

I read the paper this morning and see a statement from Lyall Gorman that Western Sydney is going to be as big as Collingwood and the Broncos. Our board has no direction. We have idiots running the club. I read on Foxsports that Bosnich as all for a Heart Merger. Maybe he is right. Maybe this needs to happen. I feel that we will be left behind n if we have another bad season. Fuck I hope we sign some good players this season.

So Bozza makes no secret of the fact that he is talking to someone at SMFC and has basically become a spruiker for the bid. Fuck off Bozza. Keep your grubby Sydney nose out of our business.

[Kiro Kompiro]

I read the paper this morning and see a statement from Lyall Gorman that Western Sydney is going to be as big as Collingwood and the Broncos. Our board has no direction. We have idiots running the club. I read on Foxsports that Bosnich as all for a Heart Merger. Maybe he is right. Maybe this needs to happen. I feel that we will be left behind espcecially if we have another bad season. Fuck I hope we sign some good players this season.

 

 

Look, the culture of the administration lacks ambition.  I get feeling that the administrators equate on field success with spending more money which they are loath to do.  As CCM have shown, this is false.

 

What the administrators don't seem to understand is that the biggest change in the A-league in the last 3 or 4 years is not the improvement of the playing standard per se, or Western Sydney, its the fact that THE COACH IS ALL IMPORTANT.  Prior to Postecoglou and Arnold, I didn't think the coaches were all that dissimilar:  the difference between winning and losing was a quality player or two.  Not any more.  The coach sets the entire club culture, the coach determines the playing philosophy, the coach decides the types of players at the club, and the coach decides who is sold and who is kept, taking into account the financial constraints that they work in.  This is where the Board have screwed the club over royally.

 

One other thing.  The players have gotten off very lightly when supporters have vented their disappointment over the last 2 season. There were games were they deserved to be booed off the pitch at home by the home end.  Not because of the result, not because they were outplayed but because they simply didn't give a fuck and did not want to be on the pitch.  Or at least giving it to Aloisi.  It wouldn't have helped anyone's confidence, but the Board would have noticed. Even our Board would know unhappy fans means dollars lost.

[Peter]

This article on the A-League website focuses on Arthur Papas and his effect at Oakleigh.

I thought it had enough about Melbourne Heart players and in it, not to mention a former NYL coach, to be topical and generate discussion.

http://www.footballaustralia.com.au/news-display/oakleigh-a-fertile-breeding-ground/66454

[Deluka]

I don't know about you guys, but all this South Melbourne talk is only making me hungrier than ever for success. Let's get out in force next season lads, show them that this has only made us stronger!

[KSK_47]

I don't know about you guys, but all this South Melbourne talk is only making me hungry

 

Thats about as far as it goes for me. I'm going to make a sandwich.

[Red or Dead]

I don't know about you guys, but all this South Melbourne talk is only making me hungry

 

Thats about as far as it goes for me. I'm going to make a sandwich.

Is it a lamb sandwich with garlic sauce?

[mstam]

This article on the A-League website focuses on Arthur Papas and his effect at Oakleigh.

I thought it had enough about Melbourne Heart players and in it, not to mention a former NYL coach, to be topical and generate discussion.

http://www.footballaustralia.com.au/news-display/oakleigh-a-fertile-breeding-ground/66454

 

Topic is not accurate, this club does not develop players but has a fine record for identifying players.

 

As for Pappas, bring him back ASAP, guy is a genius!

[Pandev]

Don't agree with this article in full.  Pappas is talented and I wish he was back at Heart, but think this article is more of a promotional peice. 

Oakleigh creates players or alows them to graduate?!

Kalmar, graduated there.  He ploughed his trade at Preston Lions.  Sasha Ogenonovski was another Lions prodigy.  Green Gully, Knights builds them, big clubs like Thunder, Oakley, SMFC buy them before they leave to A league, make no mistake!!

[Tommykins]

I've only just read through the South Melbourne buyout finalities, ridiculous to consider they offered 3.5 million for an A-League license.

[sikre]

I've only just read through the South Melbourne buyout finalities, ridiculous to consider they offered 3.5 million for an A-League license.

What do you think ownership of heart is worth then?

[Tommykins]

Certainly more then that. Especially considering we have a good stadium deal.