A-league expansion

[NewConvert]

According to Peter Filopoulous, the chief of PG, the A-League clubs made a combined loss of $17M last year (I note that MV have stated that they made a $1.5M profit). So that implies that somehow the FFA has to financially stabilise the clubs quickly. Here is the link to the full article:

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/soccer/perth-glory-chief-joins-groundswell-of-aleague-discontent-20151206-glgzjh.html

Also Michael Cockerill writing in fairfax states that the FFA should move closer to Singapore and HK:

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket/new-ffa-boss-steven-lowy-needs-to-capitalise-on-aleague-success-in-asia-20151206-glgidx.html

 

[jw1739]

I find it interesting that Filipoulos comes up with that old chestnut, some form of national second division (but without promotion and relegation this time around). Even AFL with its undoubted riches, does not have the same, and it is a sport that has zero competition for the best players in its code. For football such a competition would simply add to the collective losses at the top end of the game.

My own view is that the structure of the A-League is basically sound but needs tweaking. Before people come to the conclusion that all that is needed is is for somehow us to find a source of cash somewhere that will fill the $17m shortfall, wouldn't it be better to actually analyse just what that loss is and where it is occurring in the accounts? An operating loss for a particular part of a business is not necessarily a disaster provided it can be offset somewhere else in the business. For example, I'd say that Melbourne City could have an operating loss on a continuing basis if our owners so desired, because sufficient income is generated elsewhere in the business to offset it.

Where in the accounts are the major shortfalls occurring - stadium hire, player wages, off-field administration costs, and so on and so forth. I'm certain it would be better to start a review and development of a strategic plan from what already exists rather than throw the cards all in the air and start from scratch once again.

And stop thinking that somehow there is a single magic bullet - e.g."marquee players such as Tim Cahill" - that will provide a quick fix.

Edited December 8, 2015 by jw1739

[NewConvert]

1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

I find it interesting that Filipoulos comes up with that old chestnut, some form of national second division (but without promotion and relegation this time around). Even AFL with its undoubted riches, does not have the same, and it is a sport that has zero competition for the best players in its code. For football such a competition would simply add to the collective losses at the top end of the game.

My own view is that the structure of the A-League is basically sound but needs tweaking. Before people come to the conclusion that all that is needed is is for somehow us to find a source of cash somewhere that will fill the $17m shortfall, wouldn't it be better to actually analyse just what that loss is and where it is occurring in the accounts? An operating loss for a particular part of a business is not necessarily a disaster provided it can be offset somewhere else in the business. For example, I'd say that Melbourne City could have an operating loss on a continuing basis if our owners so desired, because sufficient income is generated elsewhere in the business to offset it.

Where in the accounts are the major shortfalls occurring - stadium hire, player wages, off-field administration costs, and so on and so forth. I'm certain it would be better to start a review and development of a strategic plan from what already exists rather than throw the cards all in the air and start from scratch once again.

And stop thinking that somehow there is a single magic bullet - e.g."marquee players such as Tim Cahill" - that will provide a quick fix.

I think that Filipoulos has identified a problem with the structure of the A-League this season in that there is a development gap for younger players as well as a gap for returning players from injury in that they don't get game time. However, I am not sure whether there really is a gap because some of these players will not be able to bridge that gap in any case. The gap occurs because the NPL is not played concurrently with the A-League.

As far as losses are concerned you are right that there needs to be an analysis of where the losses are occurring. Of course, the clubs being private companies they don't have to publish public accounts so we will never know. Also he assumes that all clubs make incur losses for the same reason. I also noted that MV announced a profit so that $17M loss would have to be incurred by the other 9 clubs. And then you have to take into consideration PG's salary cap breaches which were penalised, and the demise of Tinkler as an owner - these would have added extra losses to the clubs but they are not regular losses.

I can see the marketing reason for a "magic bullet" but that could well be a source of diminishing returns over a period of years. For example, Kewell did not have the same impact at Heart as he did in his first season with MV.

however he did hit the nail on the head with regards to the lack of vision for the FFA and a lack of marketing - something that has been noted by lots of people.

 

[n i k o]

Took this off bluemoon forum regarding expansion of a Canberra based team, hope billymumphrey who wrote this doesn't mind:

As a Canberra based blue, I can shed some light on this.

I saw the bid that was presented to the A League for a team in Canberra, as at the time I was working for the firm that put it together. The bid was sponsored strongly by a local Canberra Business man, Ivan Slavich, who is a firm supporter of football. Former Socceroo Ned Zelich was also part of the bid. Ultimately it failed, and after the collapses of some of the other franchises I think the league is consolidating rather then expanding at the moment.

Even if they were considering expanding there's a few problems with Canberra. Put simply it's a fairly fair weather town when it comes to supporting teams. If the teams do well then they get glory hunters otherwise crowd numbers a fairly lackluster. I've been to a few Raiders games and they blatantly lie about crowd figures. Truthfully I reckon they would be averaging around 7-9k a game. The running joke is that they count all the players in the figures as well as staff and cheerleaders. Brumbies crowds are better but also down from when they would regularly come close to selling out most games at the turn of century. With winter seasons the cold weather (for Australia) would put people off, which wouldn't necessarily apply for an A League team.

The stadium infrastructure is not the best either. It's not located in a easily accessible area, with decent surrounding infrastructure. There are plans for a stadium in the city which would be built where the current civic swimming pool is which would be ideal and revitalise some of the CBD. However those plans and the rest of the City to the Lake ideas are being shelved for a light rail project, which if you ask most, would fail the pub test for common sense. 

There have been some positives. I think some Canberra teams went far in the FFA cup and were drawing decent numbers to some of the games, however the FFA used the recent world cup qualifier as a test case to see whether there would be appropriate demand. Against the powerhouse of world football that is Kyrgyzstan and on a severely wet day they drew about 20k to the game. They didn't exactly help their cause by pricing the game appropriately - cheapest tickets were still $50 which many thought was quite steep. I'm not sure what conclusions they would draw from that...

I think that a Canberra based team makes sense as it could maybe involve some partnership with the Australian Institute of Sport and almost act as a bit of a feeder for some of the young talent. However I think that there are a number of factors that will not see a team be established there soon. The fair weather support, inability to attract decent players to Canberra (versus every other club which can either offer being near the coast or a large modern vibrant city), the league's appetite to consolidate rather than expand and a host of other infrastructure reasons will result in Canberra being without a team for some time I reckon.

Edited January 13, 2016 by n i k o

[mus-28]

If nothing the FFA needs to put a date on expansion so clubs/franchises can begin working toward setting up a bid that has the best chance of being accepted. Right now all we know is that there wont be expansion this season, but it will happen at some stage, pretty shit way to run it.

[jw1739]

2 hours ago, mus-28 said:

If nothing the FFA needs to put a date on expansion so clubs/franchises can begin working toward setting up a bid that has the best chance of being accepted. Right now all we know is that there wont be expansion this season, but it will happen at some stage, pretty shit way to run it.

As well as the timetable IMO they need to set out the complete blueprint of what they are actually aiming for - full set of criteria for clubs, number of clubs, preferred locations etc. No point in, for example, Canberra working hard to get a bid together if there's some hidden criterion that negates all that hard work.

[NewConvert]

1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

As well as the timetable IMO they need to set out the complete blueprint of what they are actually aiming for - full set of criteria for clubs, number of clubs, preferred locations etc. No point in, for example, Canberra working hard to get a bid together if there's some hidden criterion that negates all that hard work.

I thought that the above was covered when they released their 20 year plan. Mind you I haven't read it but I thought that this was meant to address these issues. Timetables have advantages and disadvantages but I suspect that it will have to do with the multimedia contracts. If the earlier they can bed down the contract then the better they will be able to do the expansion. I would not be surprised if the FFA went with the WSW model - the FFA sets up the club, runs it for a year or two and then sells it to a consortium as an ongoing concern.

[jw1739]

14 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

I thought that the above was covered when they released their 20 year plan. Mind you I haven't read it but I thought that this was meant to address these issues. Timetables have advantages and disadvantages but I suspect that it will have to do with the multimedia contracts. If the earlier they can bed down the contract then the better they will be able to do the expansion. I would not be surprised if the FFA went with the WSW model - the FFA sets up the club, runs it for a year or two and then sells it to a consortium as an ongoing concern.

You haven't read it? I have. It's full of the usual full page glossy images, lovely diagrams and motherhood statements. Just glance at it here:
http://www.wholeoffootballplan.com.au/pdfs/Whole_of_Football_Plan.pdf
The section on the A-League is pages 81-86 - and says sweet FA about what a future league should look like except for motherhood statements. No criteria are set for any club, number of clubs, timetable for expansion etc. etc. except the magic population figure of 500,000 for a club (and that has since been poo-pooed by Gallop).
Been there, done that. The usual shit that corporates pay squillions to consultants for.

[NewConvert]

1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

You haven't read it? I have. It's full of the usual full page glossy images, lovely diagrams and motherhood statements. Just glance at it here:
http://www.wholeoffootballplan.com.au/pdfs/Whole_of_Football_Plan.pdf
The section on the A-League is pages 81-86 - and says sweet FA about what a future league should look like except for motherhood statements. No criteria are set for any club, number of clubs, timetable for expansion etc. etc. except the magic population figure of 500,000 for a club (and that has since been poo-pooed by Gallop).
Been there, done that. The usual shit that corporates pay squillions to consultants for.

Thanks for the summary. Won't bother reading it then. Under Gallop we are doomed.

[Blackout]

I just had a skim through the Whole of Football Plan, and I am impressed they managed to write 100 pages whilst avoiding actually saying anything of substance the entire time.

It reminds me of some of my earlier Uni essays that I didn't actually research as thoroughly as I should have. I just wrote broad, sweeping statements that don't actually mean anything; but they can't be wrong as you haven't actually committed to anything.

[strider]

What if I told you... The A-League doesn't need expanding. It needs a relegation/promotion system. 

(in other words #HellasIn)

[hakz7]

11 hours ago, strider said:

What if I told you... The A-League doesn't need expanding. It needs a relegation/promotion system. 

(in other words #HellasIn)

Problem with relegation is, nearly every player from the A-League club that gets relegated would leave and then what would happen to that club? They'd have to rebuild the whole squad when they get promoted again.

[jw1739]

11 minutes ago, hakz7 said:

Problem with relegation is, nearly every player from the A-League club that gets relegated would leave and then what would happen to that club? They'd have to rebuild the whole squad when they get promoted again.

There are many more issues to deal with as well as that one. As above, considering that FFA doesn't even have an idea of a blueprint for the A-league into the future, giving it a second division to manage is unthinkable. We tend to forget that even at the present time Newcastle is owned by the FFA with no potential new owner in site, and everything Central Coast does gives the impression that it is on its last legs, and every other club except Melbourne City has required FFA assistance at some point in its history. Forget a second division until further notice.

[Shahanga]

2 hours ago, jw1739 said:

There are many more issues to deal with as well as that one. As above, considering that FFA doesn't even have an idea of a blueprint for the A-league into the future, giving it a second division to manage is unthinkable. We tend to forget that even at the present time Newcastle is owned by the FFA with no potential new owner in site, and everything Central Coast does gives the impression that it is on its last legs, and every other club except Melbourne City has required FFA assistance at some point in its history. Forget a second division until further notice.

I agree with you JW, but the pedantic side of me needs to point out that to the best of my knowledge, Tards have never required assistance either.

in my view promotion/ relegation is a long way away. I can't see an A2 league being viable at present and relegated clubs would probably go to the wall.

[HEARTinator]

Forget about promotion/relegation, it's a side issue. Cocker's has it pretty right in this article. Getting the right stadium deals would be a massive boost for the financial viability of the league.

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/soccer/western-sydney-wanderers/aleague-fans-should-no-longer-be-treated-like-poor-cousins-for-stadiums-20160115-gm6ikm.html

__________________________________

A-League fans should no longer be treated like poor cousins for stadiums
Date
January 15, 2016 - 11:54AM
Be the first to commentRead later
 Michael Cockerill
Michael Cockerill
Football Writer

Bet on the Wanderers fans making the most of the last derby to be played at Parramatta for at least three years. When they eventually return after a $300 million facelift, let's hope it still feels like home.

The next, perhaps most crucial phase, of the A-League evolution is stadiums. Until that gets sorted the metrics will never be viable. The American experience has shown that. In a crowded sporting marketplace where football has historically played second fiddle - just like Australia - Major League Soccer only began to gain traction once clubs began to own their own stadiums, thus controlling match-day income.

When the MLS was on its knees in the late 1990s, billionaire investor Lamar Hunt made what proved to be the most important decision in the league's history. He spent $28 million ($45 million in today's money) to build the first football-specific stadium in the MLS for one of his clubs, Columbus Crew. It was the game-changer.

When a new stadium in Orlando opens later this year, 15 of the 20 clubs will own their own venues. In those dark days of the late 1990s, three billionaires - Hunt, Bob Kraft and Phillip Anschutz - owned all 10 clubs between them, pumping in around $100 million simply to keep the competition afloat. These days it costs $100 million to buy a single MLS club. Stadium ownership has a lot to do with that.

Ideally, of course, the A-League would follow suit. But such is the price of real estate, such are the construction costs, and such are the relatively straitened circumstances of most club owners that it is hard to see it happening. Even Frank Lowy, during his time as majority owner of Sydney FC, baulked at the cost. So perhaps the A-League needs to take a different tack. 

A solution, believe it or not, could lie across the Tasman. I don't know Slava Meyn, but I'd like to. A passionate, committed, football man, who on the edges of Christchurch is building a football dream. 

One day, although he is in no hurry, that may include an A-League bid. But only if there is the right stadium.

What makes Meyn different, and innovative, is that he refuses to accept the status quo in terms of construction costs. The clues are everywhere in his impressive Christchurch Football Academy complex near the airport - the best of its kind in New Zealand. The grandstand was first put together in China and properly certified before being shipped to Christchurch, where it was re-assembled. Like the goals, the partition nets and the artificial turf, Meyn scoured the world to source the best quality products at the best possible price and then imported them - thus circumventing the cosy cartel of local builders who have managed to make Australasian stadium costs the highest in the world.

It is an approach the wealthy Meyn is committed to because he knows what he is talking about. Before emigrating to New Zealand, he was part-owner of his hometown club in far-eastern Russia, Okean Nakhodka - where current Russian international Viktor Fayzulin remains the most famous graduate. 

Meyn did not get around to building a stadium before he left, but he had done his homework on how to get the right fit at the right price. His favourite example is in Belarus, where BATE Borisov recently opened a 13,000 all-seat stadium which was given the highest rating by UEFA despite costing just $45 million to build.

That - albeit with a few more thousand seats - is what Christchurch needs, what the MLS has, and what the A-League needs more of. It will require richer owners, and more committed ones. It is by far the best long-term solution, but in the meantime there is a crucial consolation prize to be sought. Better rental agreements at existing stadiums or - in the case of Parramatta - smarter ones. It is better than nothing.

As it stands, the deals at Suncorp Stadium, Allianz Stadium, nib Stadium, AAMI Park, Westpac Stadium and Hunter Stadium do not do the A-League any favours. Brisbane Roar have the worst of the lot. It is not just about the money, it is about things like training access and pitch preparation. Football has historically been treated poorly in multi-use venues, but finally there are signs that things are changing.

Football Federation Australia's Mark Falvo has arguably the toughest gig at Whitlam Square - muscling in on territory traditionally dominated by the AFL and NRL and influencing government when it comes to stadium development. The fact that Parramatta Stadium is about to kick off the NSW government's $1.6 billion stadium blitz in Sydney, the fact that a redeveloped Allianz Stadium is now likely to stay at its 45,000-capacity, and the fact that the NRL is now looking to share Perry Park for a new boutique stadium in Brisbane, are all indicators that football is getting a stronger voice where it counts.

Falvo has chosen to, or maybe has to, stay inside the system. Meyn has chosen to go outside it. The common denominator is football is finally using the power it has always had. The right stadiums, or at the very least the right deals, will transform the A-League. How much, at Parramatta, we're about to find out. 
 

[jw1739]

3 minutes ago, Shahanga said:

I agree with you JW, but the pedantic side of me needs to point out that to the best of my knowledge, Tards have never required assistance either.

in my view promotion/ relegation is a long way away. I can't see an A2 league being viable at present and relegated clubs would probably go to the wall.

IIRC FFA had 10% of them to get them off the ground at the very start.

[Shahanga]

Fair enough.

[mus-28]

 

 

[manandoboy]

Is the A-League still looking to Asia for expansion? Because this article seems to suggest so...
 

http://www.newshub.co.nz/sport/malaysia-fa-in-talks-about-a-league-admission-2016021413#ixzz40CoO6TkM

 

[NewConvert]

56 minutes ago, manandoboy said:

Is the A-League still looking to Asia for expansion? Because this article seems to suggest so...
 

http://www.newshub.co.nz/sport/malaysia-fa-in-talks-about-a-league-admission-2016021413#ixzz40CoO6TkM

 

Not officially know but I would not place too much store on this article - the words "unnamed consortium" means that Mitchell could be just talking it up. Right now the FFA has some domestic issues to deal with and they are concentrating on the upcoming multi-media rights deal where they want to double the last contract. It may come to pass that the broadcasters would want to have 11 or 12 teams in which case the FFA would then begin planning but at this stage the expansion of the A-League is on ice.

[jw1739]

I love this quote from an FFA spokesperson:  "FFA's position on expansion of the A-League is well known." AFAIK FFA has no position at all. The 2015 "Whole of Football Plan" of 109 pages has just 3 pages on the A-League and just one quantitative measure as far as I can see - that "every major Australian centre with a population over 500,000 has the market size to host an A-League club." Everything else is simply a collection of qualitative motherhood statements.

 

[Tesla]

It's already looking like another step up in quality next season for the A-League, with teams like Wellington and CCM improving their squads quite significantly, and Newcastle showing their intention as well by releasing a number of players. The bigger teams are always going to be trying to improve but it's good to see ambition from the smaller teams as well for once.

So again the issue of expansion has to come up, the league is definitely operating at a high enough standard now that even if bringing in a new team or two means there is a slight drop in quality it doesn't really matter. There are plenty of decent Australian players who are having to drop down to the state league or go to some south east asian league every season as the standard increases.

Getting in two more teams should be a matter of urgency. 27 games per team is simply not enough, it's a joke by worldwide standard. Two more teams means 33 games a season, at that point it's an acceptable number of games and then further expansion can come with a lot more patience.

Also as the standard increases, it becomes harder for new teams to be instantly competitive. The standard has already increased substantially since the last expansion, but I still think a new team can be competitive, you certainly could put together a squad from scratch that would have been better than CCM last season. But with the bottom teams especially looking to improve for next season you have to think that it might not be easy to do in the not to distant future. In the MLS, since the MLS technically owns all the players and they have things like a draft, they can make it easier for new teams by letting them take players from other teams even if they are in contract and by giving them early draft picks, we don't have anything like that so if the standard increases too much it could certainly be hard to have competitive expansion teams.

[Jimmy]

After tonight I'm of the opinion that South could definitely put up a viable A-League side.

[bt50]

7 hours ago, Jimmy said:

After tonight I'm of the opinion that South could definitely put up a viable A-League side.

Not much point if all their supporters have 5 year bans...

Edited June 7, 2016 by bt50

[cadete]

7 hours ago, Jimmy said:

After tonight I'm of the opinion that South could definitely put up a viable A-League side.

The last thing this league needs is one Ethnic Club amongst a bunch of Non Ethnic Clubs, the Ethnic Connections of South would be heightened even more as things went on by their fans and more importantly by those of the other clubs.

It would be like on a much minor larger scale what happens with Celtic in Scotland... which nobody can describe as a good situation.

[n i k o]

Just on transfer fees....

Central Coast Mariners Executive Vice Chairman Peter Storrie commented on the movement of Austin.

“We signed Mitch 12 months ago when he was out of contract in the UK and gave him a chance to shine in the Hyundai A-League,” Storrie said. “Mitch played a certain amount of matches, which triggered a second season in his contract.

“Mitch requested to terminate his contract which highlights why the FFA should re-consider the rules around transfer fees between Hyundai A-League Clubs, if not the smaller clubs are just going to develop players and lose them to bigger clubs with no compensation,” Storrie said.

[haz]

Transfer Fees should be allowed between clubs, as we paid CCM a fee for Caceres they were able to sign a marquee.  Expect CCM to be wooden spooners again.

[thisphantomfortress]

Central Coast would be on much better financial footing if they allowed transfer fees in my opinion. They produced some decent talent over the years and besides the likes of Jedinak and Ryan who go to Europe for a fee ( don't remember if Mile did or not) they really get nothing to show for it.

[Jovan]

2 hours ago, thisphantomfortress said:

Central Coast would be on much better financial footing if they allowed transfer fees in my opinion. They produced some decent talent over the years and besides the likes of Jedinak and Ryan who go to Europe for a fee ( don't remember if Mile did or not) they really get nothing to show for it.

Add Rogic and Wilkinson just off the top of my head.

 

Transfer fees not only benefit the "smaller" A League clubs but would change the revenue streams for all second and third tier clubs, who incidentally get most of their income from overcharging juniors just to play. 

This is a massive issue even bigger than the cap discussion and needs to fixed before the game gets beyond the average kid and kills the grassroots.

[Tesla]

Transfer fees in.

Salary cap out.

Simples.

[n i k o]

 

http://www.goal.com/en-au/news/4021/a-league/2016/07/25/25916082/scrap-the-cap-merrick-reckons-the-a-league-is-ready
 

Quote:

The veteran coach wants Football Federation Australia to take the shackles off clubs and give the A-League more opportunities for growth


Wellington Phoenix coach Ernie Merrick believes it's time for the A-League to scrap the salary cap and "just get on with it".

Merrick, the A-League's longest-serving coach, reckons the A-League has "grown up" enough to warrant the salary cap's removal, plus he has argued the ever-growing list of exceptions makes it somewhat irrelevant.

The A-League salary cap is $AUD 2.6million per club with a minimum spend of $2.275m, but with marquee and guest player slots, loyalty bonuses and loan restrictions, the rules are complicated.


"I just don't know why we bother with a salary cap, I think we've grown up, it's been 10 years now, let's just get on with it," Merrick was quoted as saying by Fairfax Media.

"I don't know if it is a salary cap anymore, because there is a certain amount you can spend within the cap, then there are all these special little loyalty bonuses and first-year player bonuses - there are that many I have lost track - and then on top of that you can now really sign three marquee players."

Merrick's claim of three marquee players refers to Football Federation Australia's decision to expand the guest player rule to allow clubs to sign a player for a full season outside the salary cap as long as they meet marketing requirements.

Merrick is the only A-League coach to have been in charge of over 200 matches - he has notched 233 with Melbourne Victory and Wellington.

Even though removing the salary cap would probably see the Phoenix unable to match the spending power of the likes of City, Victory and the Sydney clubs, Merrick insists it would be good for the A-League.

"Why worry about a salary cap?" the 63-year-old said. 

"Why not let people invest big? It just makes the league grow rapidly. That's what's happening in the MLS.

"I think it would present more of a challenge to our club to recruit well economically, to develop players, to have an academy where you're bringing players through and I think the challenge and the pressure is good for everyone."

The MLS has a salary cap of almost $AUD 4.7million but each club can sign three 'designated players' outside that figure.

[Tesla]

While having different views overall in what they said today, that's both him and the Adelaide CEO who basically said what we're all thinking as well, that the salary cap is pretty pointless now that there are so many exceptions.

Just get rid of it (and by getting rid of it you get rid of the salary floor and also a lot of the the PFA's power).

[fidrildid6]

Don't understand why any club other than us wants to remove the salary cap.

[Tesla]

9 hours ago, fidrildid6 said:

Don't understand why any club other than us wants to remove the salary cap.

Then you should reread the article.

[jw1739]

17 hours ago, fidrildid6 said:

Don't understand why any club other than us wants to remove the salary cap.

Removing the salary cap is just part of the story anyway. Rather than FFA's current approach, which focuses on a myriad of petty rules cobbled together, it should focus on making sure that the clubs making up the league, and admitted to it in the future, are set up in the right way with the right resources in the first place. Then there is no need for knee-jerk rules such as Lampard and Caceres.
I know that the focus of some on here is the negatives of our ownership - for example the colours - but really the focus should be on all the good things that flow from being owned and managed by CFG.

[Jacques Le Cube]

The salary cap should be kept, and significantly reduced.

[Milhouse20XX]

Do those Malakas at South Melbourne Football Club still jack off over being in the A-League?

IMHO, South Melbourne Football Club can take their tzatziki flavoured A-League bid and shove it up their you-know-what

As far as I'm concerned, ETHNIC football clubs are not welcome in OUR A-League!

[KSK_47]

Has something happened to inspire this post? Or its something you have been holding in since the early 00s and you just couldn't hold it in any longer?

[Tesla]

5 star thread

[Milhouse20XX]

11 minutes ago, KSK_47 said:

Has something happened to inspire this post? Or its something you have been holding in since the early 00s and you just couldn't hold it in any longer?

I just finished reading the book "A-League" and it gives a solid case as to why the ETHNIC teams were responsible for making football in Australia a complete joke.