The JvS thread

[belaguttman]

 

 

Not on anyone's side. Just want to say 4 games out of 27. That's all.

28

But it's not his fault

 

Not sure what that statistic is. Since returning at Christmas 2013 we've played 28 league games and 1 FFA Cup game for a total of 29. Out of those we've won 10, or  34.4%. Marginally better than van 't Schip's overall A-League record (86 matches) which is 31.4%.

 

Basically though, short-term variations in City's performance are not the issue. Overall if we continue as we have done in the past, and so far there really are no signs of a permanent paradigm shift, we will never win anything. 86 matches is more than enough time to assess a manager's performance.

 

Time to go.

 

There are 2 factors here, one os the quality of the players on the pitch and the other is the quality of the coaching team in bringing the best out of individuals and the team performance. We can see with a team like Sydney or Brisbane that the loss of 2 or 3 key players can cripple what was a good team irrespective of the coach's quality. This has also been an issue with Heart and has continued to be so with City, we can see the difference that the inclusion of both Engelaar and Koren has made for instance. Our general recruiting remains poor though but I think (hope) that this reflects our recruiting strategy of key player replacement limited by the salary cap rather than incremental improvement.

 

The coach issue is becoming clear to me. I was neither a JVS fan or a 'not fan', but believed that other issues at Heart had made it impossible to accurately assess his coaching abilities. Now I think that there are times when we clearly play very attractive football but I believe that JVS' man management reflected in the patchy team performances and inability to maintain performance when under any pressure to succeed show that we will never win a title with him as a coach of the team.

[Parrot]

If people think pressure is the only way to motivate I'm sorry but you are totally wrong (there are bodies of academic evidence on this pressure is typically only a short term motivator). ...

 

I saw a Perth Glory player interviewed on Fox Sports the other week and when asked about the coach he said, "He treats us like men."

[SF33]

 

a fairly reliable source has said he has completely lost the dressing room and it could have possibly been why koren marched straight down to the dressing room

If your 'fairly reliable source (sauce?) is accurate then he will be gone irrespective of the team's results.

 

 

I call bullshit. It would be the first case in history of a coach 'losing the dressing room' when the team hasn't lost in a month and had won three out of four.

 

Winning fixes everything and players know better than to openly and publicly sook when the team is doing well, because all that does is make them look like selfish jerks.

[Dylan]

a fairly reliable source has said he has completely lost the dressing room and it could have possibly been why koren marched straight down to the dressing room

Highly doubt that he would have lost the dressing room after a 4 game unbeaten run and after just one loss. If he had, that run wouldnt have happend

[sharpy]

He has such a good tan though

[Kiro Kompiro]

 

 

 

Not on anyone's side. Just want to say 4 games out of 27. That's all.

28

But it's not his fault

 

Not sure what that statistic is. Since returning at Christmas 2013 we've played 28 league games and 1 FFA Cup game for a total of 29. Out of those we've won 10, or  34.4%. Marginally better than van 't Schip's overall A-League record (86 matches) which is 31.4%.

 

Basically though, short-term variations in City's performance are not the issue. Overall if we continue as we have done in the past, and so far there really are no signs of a permanent paradigm shift, we will never win anything. 86 matches is more than enough time to assess a manager's performance.

 

Time to go.

 

There are 2 factors here, one os the quality of the players on the pitch and the other is the quality of the coaching team in bringing the best out of individuals and the team performance. We can see with a team like Sydney or Brisbane that the loss of 2 or 3 key players can cripple what was a good team irrespective of the coach's quality. This has also been an issue with Heart and has continued to be so with City, we can see the difference that the inclusion of both Engelaar and Koren has made for instance. Our general recruiting remains poor though but I think (hope) that this reflects our recruiting strategy of key player replacement limited by the salary cap rather than incremental improvement.

 

The coach issue is becoming clear to me. I was neither a JVS fan or a 'not fan', but believed that other issues at Heart had made it impossible to accurately assess his coaching abilities. Now I think that there are times when we clearly play very attractive football but I believe that JVS' man management reflected in the patchy team performances and inability to maintain performance when under any pressure to succeed show that we will never win a title with him as a coach of the team.

 

 

We have had mickey mouse moments in defence like yesterday from our inception.  Different players have come and gone and the common factor JVS.  He really cannot coach defensive organisation, he has to go or it will just continue the same way next season.

[KSK_47]

Not on anyone's side. Just want to say 4 games out of 27. That's all.

28

But it's not his fault

Not sure what that statistic is. Since returning at Christmas 2013 we've played 28 league games and 1 FFA Cup game for a total of 29. Out of those we've won 10, or  34.4%. Marginally better than van 't Schip's overall A-League record (86 matches) which is 31.4%.

 

Basically though, short-term variations in City's performance are not the issue. Overall if we continue as we have done in the past, and so far there really are no signs of a permanent paradigm shift, we will never win anything. 86 matches is more than enough time to assess a manager's performance.

 

Time to go.

Yeah I need to stop assuming that these kind of numbers (in the initially quoted post) are legit or listening to people who post about having reliable sources etc etc. I just go into rage blackouts when we play like we did yesterday and start quoting anything I can see.

Anyway. So after calming down a bit and looking at some actual stats it still doesn't look much better.

[n i k o]

Just to clarify my post it was in regards to not getting carried away with 4 games where we played well and won 3 of them out of the 27 games we play during the season.

[Alexxxandro]

 

 

 

Not on anyone's side. Just want to say 4 games out of 27. That's all.

28

But it's not his fault

 

Not sure what that statistic is. Since returning at Christmas 2013 we've played 28 league games and 1 FFA Cup game for a total of 29. Out of those we've won 10, or  34.4%. Marginally better than van 't Schip's overall A-League record (86 matches) which is 31.4%.

 

Basically though, short-term variations in City's performance are not the issue. Overall if we continue as we have done in the past, and so far there really are no signs of a permanent paradigm shift, we will never win anything. 86 matches is more than enough time to assess a manager's performance.

 

Time to go.

 

There are 2 factors here, one os the quality of the players on the pitch and the other is the quality of the coaching team in bringing the best out of individuals and the team performance. We can see with a team like Sydney or Brisbane that the loss of 2 or 3 key players can cripple what was a good team irrespective of the coach's quality. This has also been an issue with Heart and has continued to be so with City, we can see the difference that the inclusion of both Engelaar and Koren has made for instance. Our general recruiting remains poor though but I think (hope) that this reflects our recruiting strategy of key player replacement limited by the salary cap rather than incremental improvement.

 

The coach issue is becoming clear to me. I was neither a JVS fan or a 'not fan', but believed that other issues at Heart had made it impossible to accurately assess his coaching abilities. Now I think that there are times when we clearly play very attractive football but I believe that JVS' man management reflected in the patchy team performances and inability to maintain performance when under any pressure to succeed show that we will never win a title with him as a coach of the team.

 

Bingo.

 

I don't bother to post much these days because I'm wasting my breath. Until JVS is sacked or City win the league this thread will go around in circles. 

Edited January 5, 2015 by Alexxxandro

[cadete]

Not on anyone's side. Just want to say 4 games out of 27. That's all.

28

But it's not his fault

Not sure what that statistic is. Since returning at Christmas 2013 we've played 28 league games and 1 FFA Cup game for a total of 29. Out of those we've won 10, or 34.4%. Marginally better than van 't Schip's overall A-League record (86 matches) which is 31.4%.

Basically though, short-term variations in City's performance are not the issue. Overall if we continue as we have done in the past, and so far there really are no signs of a permanent paradigm shift, we will never win anything. 86 matches is more than enough time to assess a manager's performance.

Time to go.

There are 2 factors here, one os the quality of the players on the pitch and the other is the quality of the coaching team in bringing the best out of individuals and the team performance. We can see with a team like Sydney or Brisbane that the loss of 2 or 3 key players can cripple what was a good team irrespective of the coach's quality. This has also been an issue with Heart and has continued to be so with City, we can see the difference that the inclusion of both Engelaar and Koren has made for instance. Our general recruiting remains poor though but I think (hope) that this reflects our recruiting strategy of key player replacement limited by the salary cap rather than incremental improvement.

The coach issue is becoming clear to me. I was neither a JVS fan or a 'not fan', but believed that other issues at Heart had made it impossible to accurately assess his coaching abilities. Now I think that there are times when we clearly play very attractive football but I believe that JVS' man management reflected in the patchy team performances and inability to maintain performance when under any pressure to succeed show that we will never win a title with him as a coach of the team.

Bingo.

I don't bother to post much these days because I'm wasting my breath. Until JVS is sacked or City win the league this thread will go around in circles.

You could say a similar thing about a majority of topics in sport...

Edited January 5, 2015 by cadete

[MHFCROB24]

It annoys me to see Perth going so well when last season they played so bad. On paper our team cant be worse than theirs. Mentally we don't have what they have and we need a coach to be able to get them up and about every game, Not for 3 games then we crumble again. Does anybody know what our biggest non loosing streak is?

[jw1739]

It annoys me to see Perth going so well when last season they played so bad. On paper our team cant be worse than theirs. Mentally we don't have what they have and we need a coach to be able to get them up and about every game, Not for 3 games then we crumble again. Does anybody know what our biggest non loosing streak is?

Last season when we won six and drew one shortly after JvS was restored as coach.

 

But really it's not "not losing" that counts. A team could be unbeaten for the whole season, draw every match and end up with 27 points - and be, most seasons, 9th or 10th on the table. But go "win-lose" throughout the season and a team will end up on either 39 or 42 points - and 42 points last season would have seen you finish as high as 2nd!

 

This just highlights how important it is to win, and why the win record of a coach is the measure of success. And on that measure van 't Schip gets a "fail."

[Harrison]

As JW said, the win percentage is the most important marker for a manager.

Josep Gombau: 42 - 18 - 10 - 14 (win percentage of 43)

Kenny Lowe: 37 - 18 - 6 - 13 (win percentage of 49)

Compare these two percentages to JVS's (31) and you can see why few are calling for them to be sacked. Neither of those two managers draw matches very often. They might lose more than they draw, but it is the win column which matters most.

[Tonyboozeadams]

And both of those coaches had shockers for most of last season. Have a look at Lowe's stats this year and gombau from the second half of last season up till now

[malloy]

And both of those coaches had shockers for most of last season. Have a look at Lowe's stats this year and gombau from the second half of last season up till now

The difference being they identified weaknesses in the team and strengthened in those areas.

JVS however thought we didn't need a left back....

Edited January 6, 2015 by malloy

[perthheart]

It annoys me to see Perth going so well when last season they played so bad. On paper our team cant be worse than theirs. Mentally we don't have what they have and we need a coach to be able to get them up and about every game, Not for 3 games then we crumble again. Does anybody know what our biggest non loosing streak is?

Difference was Glory already had one of the best centre backs and fullbacks in the squad with thwaite and jamieson. They bought in Djulbic and they have easily the best defence in the league now. They had a terrible attacking line up so never scored enough goals to put pressure on teams. The likes of Keogh, Nichols, Hersi etc now provide that goal threat and they rightly sit where they are. It still remains to be seen how they will perform if they lose Keogh's goals from the team though.

Where as we had little defensively to start with and still only signed Chapman. Our recruitment in other areas of the field has been good though. Our top four performers in Mooy, Duff, chapman and Melling are all new signings and you can probably add Paartalu as better than the old guard but not quite been at the level of the other four.

If we recruit well defensively this January or more likely in the off season I expect us to be up near the top of the table next year. Provided an excellent international CB, a left back, right back, and a few players who can play in the front three are found, our midfield is essentially set for next year.

I still don't know whether JVS is the man to sort out a defence as he has proved ineffective at it in the past. I guess it depends whether CFG agreed to the recruitment strategy with a view to being strong next year or not. If so you'd imagine he has a long rope until next season. Let's just hope he gets it right if it is the case otherwise it will set us back a few more seasons which we can't afford.

[Tonyboozeadams]

And both of those coaches had shockers for most of last season. Have a look at Lowe's stats this year and gombau from the second half of last season up till now

The difference being they identified weaknesses in the team and strengthened in those areas.

JVS however thought we didn't need a left back....

That wasn't a defence of jvs. I meant that those stats would actually be alot better for those coaches

[Harrison]

Another interesting case to look at is Ernie Merrick as Wellington's manager: 41 - 16 - 8 - 17 (win percentage of 39)

 

Wellington's 2013-14 season yielded 7 wins, 7 draws and 13 losses from 27 matches. 

 

Just looking at this season, Merrick is sitting on a win percentage of 64. If he could keep this up, he'd win 17 matches by the end of the regular season.

 

Remarkable how quickly he has managed to turn it around.

 

Meanwhile JVS continues to labour on a win percentage of 31 this season - on par with his aggregate percentage. He isn't improving.

[jw1739]

Out of 86 A-League matches I have van 't Schip with 27 wins, 29 draws, and 30 defeats.

 

Season 1: 8-11-11

Season 2: 9-10-8 plus finals 0-0-1

Season 4: 6-4-5

Season 5: 4-4-5

 

Very close to what you would expect for random results!

Edited January 10, 2015 by jw1739

[Tonyboozeadams]

Another interesting case to look at is Ernie Merrick as Wellington's manager: 41 - 16 - 8 - 17 (win percentage of 39)

Wellington's 2013-14 season yielded 7 wins, 7 draws and 13 losses from 27 matches.

Just looking at this season, Merrick is sitting on a win percentage of 64. If he could keep this up, he'd win 17 matches by the end of the regular season.

Remarkable how quickly he has managed to turn it around.

Meanwhile JVS continues to labour on a win percentage of 31 this season - on par with his aggregate percentage. He isn't improving.

Merrick has been quietly improving wellington the whole time. I'm not too surprised to see them doing well. But if thwy lose a few key players it will be tough for them

[Jovan]

Lets not forget Merrick twice won the title, yes it's a different landscape now but none the less results are results. FWIW I don't rate Merrick, but you cannot ignore the numbers.

[NewConvert]

 

Another interesting case to look at is Ernie Merrick as Wellington's manager: 41 - 16 - 8 - 17 (win percentage of 39)

Wellington's 2013-14 season yielded 7 wins, 7 draws and 13 losses from 27 matches.

Just looking at this season, Merrick is sitting on a win percentage of 64. If he could keep this up, he'd win 17 matches by the end of the regular season.

Remarkable how quickly he has managed to turn it around.

Meanwhile JVS continues to labour on a win percentage of 31 this season - on par with his aggregate percentage. He isn't improving.

Merrick has been quietly improving wellington the whole time. I'm not too surprised to see them doing well. But if thwy lose a few key players it will be tough for them

 

 

Any side that loses a number of key players becomes tough, examples: Sydney FC, Melb Victory. What this season is highlighting big time is that a squad of 23+3 is too small, and we need the players that don't make the team should have the opportunity to play at another weekly competition to keep match fit.

[kingofhearts]

/thread

[AyeCee]

/thread

For shakily beating the bottom placed team?

Hahahahaha

[strider]

Keeps starting Ramsey... both need to go. Chuck Redmayne out while we're at it.

[kingofhearts]

 

 

/thread

For shakily beating the bottom placed team?

Hahahahaha

 

Never in doubt  more like it

 

10 year contract extension 

[Dylan]

/thread

For shakily beating the bottom placed team?

Hahahahaha

Shakily? It never looked in doubt from the start. We dominated the asian champions for 90 minutes and should have won by 4 goals

Edited February 2, 2015 by Dylan

[KSK_47]

/thread

For shakily beating the bottom placed team?HahahahahaShakily? It never looked in doubt from the start. We dominated the asian champions for 90 minutes and should have won by 4 goals

We looked very shakey towards the final whistle there. Overall we were ordinary just they were worse. Not complaining about the win but we need to he much better

[Tony999]

Re-sign asap! 20 year contract!

[AyeCee]

 

 

 

/thread

 

For shakily beating the bottom placed team?

Hahahahaha

 

Shakily? It never looked in doubt from the start. We dominated the asian champions for 90 minutes and should have won by 4 goals

 

You're being funny yeah?

[jw1739]

 

 

 

 

/thread

For shakily beating the bottom placed team?Hahahahaha Shakily? It never looked in doubt from the start. We dominated the asian champions for 90 minutes and should have won by 4 goals

We looked very shakey towards the final whistle there. Overall we were ordinary just they were worse. Not complaining about the win but we need to he much better

 

Agreed. By any stretch of the imagination that was not a comprehensive win at home to the bottom-placed side that has not won a league match this season. The nervousness at the end was palpable, on the field and in the stands. We deserved the three points, but could so easily have coughed up two of them. Clisby is a good signing for LB, but IMO all our other problems remain.

Edited February 2, 2015 by jw1739

[kingofhearts]

These 4 games will be make or break for JVS IMO. We have the derby, then the nux,Perth then Adelaide.

 

If we can get 3 wins out of those games and a draw against Perth it will show that he really has got the team to turn the corner

[japiedog]

 

 

 

 

 

/thread

For shakily beating the bottom placed team?Hahahahaha Shakily? It never looked in doubt from the start. We dominated the asian champions for 90 minutes and should have won by 4 goals

We looked very shakey towards the final whistle there. Overall we were ordinary just they were worse. Not complaining about the win but we need to he much better

 

Agreed. By any stretch of the imagination that was not a comprehensive win at home to the bottom-placed side that has not won a league match this season. The nervousness at the end was palpable, on the field and in the stands. We deserved the three points, but could so easily have coughed up two of them. Clisby is a good signing for LB, but IMO all our other problems remain.

 

so true, we should have won 5 -1 , but as we squandered so many chances we left ourselves open to the possibility of letting the match slip away...  something that we have done on so many occasions

[Roos Addick]

I understand that we've been burnt so many times in the past that it is easy to be pessimistic in the last 10mins when we are only a goal up. However, the result yesterday was never in doubt and we closed it out very well. We possessed the ball really well at the end and although they pushed forward they hardly created a good chance to steal a point.

Team looks good. Is JvS the man? We'll see.

[Dylan]

/thread

For shakily beating the bottom placed team?Hahahahaha

Shakily? It never looked in doubt from the start. We dominated the asian champions for 90 minutes and should have won by 4 goals

We looked very shakey towards the final whistle there. Overall we were ordinary just they were worse. Not complaining about the win but we need to he much better

I was being a tad hyperbolic haha. But we were by far the better side and deserved the win.

[KSK_47]

I understand that we've been burnt so many times in the past that it is easy to be pessimistic in the last 10mins when we are only a goal up. However, the result yesterday was never in doubt and we closed it out very well. We possessed the ball really well at the end and although they pushed forward they hardly created a good chance to steal a point.

Team looks good. Is JvS the man? We'll see.

That's exactly why the result was in doubt. Because plenty of times the opposition hasn't had to create a good chance to take points from us. The opening goal being a perfect example of why I had very strong doubts

[Roos Addick]

I understand that we've been burnt so many times in the past that it is easy to be pessimistic in the last 10mins when we are only a goal up. However, the result yesterday was never in doubt and we closed it out very well. We possessed the ball really well at the end and although they pushed forward they hardly created a good chance to steal a point.

Team looks good. Is JvS the man? We'll see.

That's exactly why the result was in doubt. Because plenty of times the opposition hasn't had to create a good chance to take points from us. The opening goal being a perfect example of why I had very strong doubts Yeah I understand that. What I mean is we were a lot more shakey in the stands than they were on the pitch. The players closed it out quite well I thought.

[Semper Cor]

Good result on the weekend but just thought it timely to mention that of the 14 matches played so far this season, only five games have been won: 

• Two matches against Brisbane who have had internal issues and subsequently made a poor start to their season resulting in them sacking their coach
• One match against Newcastle where to say they are also having internal issues is a slight understatement
• One match against WSW who have had internal issues and looks like continuing to do so and is reflected in not having won a match all season
• One match against the evil empire where this club has a history of lifting itself and where it could be argued that City should have had one player sent off and a MV disallowed goal which should have been allowed

As a few others have pointed out, the next couple of matches will be telling, against opposition who aren’t having internal issues and are sitting at the other end of the table.  This will provide a much better test and indication of where JvS and this squad is at and how much they have progressed since the first half of the season.  

[Embee]

Good result on the weekend but just thought it timely to mention that of the 14 matches played so far this season, only five games have been won: 

• Two matches against Brisbane who have had internal issues and subsequently made a poor start to their season resulting in them sacking their coach
• One match against Newcastle where to say they are also having internal issues is a slight understatement
• One match against WSW who have had internal issues and looks like continuing to do so and is reflected in not having won a match all season
• One match against the evil empire where this club has a history of lifting itself and where it could be argued that City should have had one player sent off and a MV disallowed goal which should have been allowed

As a few others have pointed out, the next couple of matches will be telling, against opposition who aren’t having internal issues and are sitting at the other end of the table.  This will provide a much better test and indication of where JvS and this squad is at and how much they have progressed since the first half of the season.  

 

Barbarouses was offside in the build up to that goal, whether the actual call that was made was right or not the goal should not have stood and it didn't.

[Jovan]

Good result on the weekend but just thought it timely to mention that of the 14 matches played so far this season, only five games have been won: 

• Two matches against Brisbane who have had internal issues and subsequently made a poor start to their season resulting in them sacking their coach
• One match against Newcastle where to say they are also having internal issues is a slight understatement
• One match against WSW who have had internal issues and looks like continuing to do so and is reflected in not having won a match all season
• One match against the evil empire where this club has a history of lifting itself and where it could be argued that City should have had one player sent off and a MV disallowed goal which should have been allowed

As a few others have pointed out, the next couple of matches will be telling, against opposition who aren’t having internal issues and are sitting at the other end of the table.  This will provide a much better test and indication of where JvS and this squad is at and how much they have progressed since the first half of the season.  

You cant pick the opposition you play. A win is a win.