The Worry Room

[Pandev]

Looking forward to signing up for season 4.

[belaguttman]

I think that what the recent posts are grappling with is that whilst the club relies on its fans to support it as a sporting entity, the structure of the HAL franchise system leaves fans out of the decision making and information loop. We become customers rather than members, we talk about marketing and the branding of the MHFC (not unimportant) but a successful club is ultimately going to have to be inclusive, we need to be 'spoken with' rather than 'spoken to'. 

Edited April 22, 2013 by belaguttman

[n i k o]

Some of you your thinking is all backwards. The club will not get up and walk away the supporters can though.

The club was created, why? Because there was a demographic of people that did not support an aleague team. The club was created for the people, and no people equals no club. Us members can survive without an aleaugue club, most of us have done so for years, but can the club survive without us?????

Biancorosso7 I would like to think that people at heart are monitoring these forums and will release a statement as you said, regarding the issues that have been talking points among members.

[n i k o]

No one goes to the pub that doesn't exist, do they?

Yes but would the pub exist if there were no customers????

[cadete]

No one goes to the pub that doesn't exist, do they?

Yes but would the pub exist if there were no customers????

[jw1739]

I think that what the recent posts are grappling with is that whilst the club relies on its fans to support it as a sporting entity, the structure of the HAL franchise system leaves fans out of the decision making and information loop. We become customers rather than members, we talk about marketing and the branding of the MHFC (not unimportant) but a successful club is ultimately going to have to inclusive, we need to be 'spoken with' rather than 'spoken to'. 

On the nail as usual BG. The words 'member' and 'membership', and related words, should never have been used at all right from the start, as we have discussed before. In reality we are nothing but season-ticket holders, entering private property to watch football matches between franchise teams. IMO it's the principal reason why the A-League does not grow the way it should (if it grows at all) because the public feels no sense of ownership or involvement. It's more or less 'take it or leave it' from FFA. Once the validity of our season-ticket ceases, then obligation to us as individuals ceases, and there is no obligation to us collectively anyway.

 

It is unfortunate that we are reduced to the level of 'customer', because as anyone who has ever been an unhappy customer in Australia knows, customer service, particularly after-sales service, is appalling in this country. Just try sorting something out with your electricity retailer, for example. Heavy-duty buck-passing at its best.

 

I don't know about the other franchises, but Heart has had fan forums, and it has formed the Representative Group, and IMO these are very positive steps in the right direction. We may not feel they are enough, but let's give credit where some is due.

 

The situation with the A-League is amplified because of the long off-season. In Heart's case, to have two away games to finish the season, and no part in the play-offs, exacerbates the problem even more. It is so easy to feel 'unwanted' when this happens.

 

Positive steps have been taken, but I do feel that if the 'club' is to grow then a whole lot of effort does need to be put towards maintaining interest during the off-season. I suggest that the Representative Group might like to put this forward at their next get-together.

 

Mrs. JW and I will be signing on for next season. Have no doubt about it. But I fully understand how people's interest and enthusiasm wanes when there's nothing to be interested in.

[Murfy1]

Two things.

 

The first is our signings and departures. The club (and all A-League clubs, because of the tiny squad sizes) will always have most of their player departures occur before most of their new signings are made. This is because squad sizes are so small, meaning Heart couldn't sign several new players and a few new internationals until we got rid of the likes of Colosimo, Fred, Bolton, Thompson etc. So, for any A-League club thats trying to shake up and largely change its squad, there will always be a large amount of time while the club has several spots free on its playing roster. This isn't an ideal situation for any club, but I don't think its anything to be concerned about.

 

On the members vs customers issue, its true that the A-League has a franchise system. So, its true that members don't literally own the club. However, many businesses, in particular sporting franchises, now go out of their way to make their members/customers apart of the club. We see this at Heart with fan forums, a representative fan group, Q and A sessions with the CEO, exhaustive (and exhausting) end of season surveys and an extensive use of social media by business management (Heart must be the A-League club with the largest portion of management on social media. I'm pretty impressed that our CEO, Scott Munn, and our football manager, John Didulica, use twitter, as I'm pretty sure there isn't many, if any, other A-League clubs that have their senior management on social media). So, Heart is an example of a fairly thoughtful franchise that gauges the thoughts, interests and concerns of their supporters through these new means.

 

I think as long as a club like Heart is very mindful of the thoughts, interests and concerns of its members, and regularly acts on their behalf, then it doesn't really matter that members don't have a literal stake in the club. Also, as noted, whilst fans didn't set up the club, the club needs lots of supporters and members to be successful. So, no supporters = no big and success club. And because Heart's management want a big and successful club, they will always be very aware of what their supporters want. And I'd say we were all clearly reminded of this when the club quickly gave Colosimo, Thompson, Fred and Bolton the boot at the end of our season.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Murfy1

[Dylan]

http://www.soccerphile.com/melbourne-heart-has-been-a-failure

 

mind you, written by a visitor supporter. Nevertheless, what does everyone think?

[Ando]

I gave it to this prick extensively on twitter the other week when I first read it. By all accounts a lot of other people did as well. The article is just a puff piece with very little in the way of solid facts and is based more on the author's ideals and prejudices.

[Tommykins]

Not sure how I haven't come across this yet. Fairly boring article really, this repeated nonsense of what do we stand for is getting tiring, what do Melbourne Victory stand for? The first team in Melbourne?

[natalie182]

I used to follow that guy on twitter and I had to unfollow him cause he's so anti Heart.

I cannot take an article about a club seriously if its written by someone who clearly hates that club.

[Tommykins]

Oh and as a guy who loves a good statistic, if anyone's worried about the quoted figures (in terms of crowd growth, etc.). Melbourne Heart increased their attendances by 9.4% over the past year, Victory by 5.34%, when you take out the derbies all together.

[KSK_47]

In fairness their growth percentage will always be much smaller due to larger numbers and having already "nabbed" a significant amount of their target market.

A 9.4% crowd increase for us is actually quite concerning. We need closer to a 40-50% crowd increase.

Not that I dont think the article is just regurgitated crap we have already heard a million times before. Am just saying is all.

[HeartinHobart]

If the club increases in 9.4% each year for the next 5 years our crowds will be over the 11000 mark. Considering our terrible season, the increase of 9.4% is acceptable

[KSK_47]

We will have to agree to disagree. I dont think our attendances or our growth is even close to acceptable regardless of results.

[Tommykins]

In fairness their growth percentage will always be much smaller due to larger numbers and having already "nabbed" a significant amount of their target market.

A 9.4% crowd increase for us is actually quite concerning. We need closer to a 40-50% crowd increase.

Not that I dont think the article is just regurgitated crap we have already heard a million times before. Am just saying is all.

 

You're clearly not thinking about this in the long term at this totally sustainable rate of growth, Melbourne Heart will overtake Melbourne Victory at the end of the 2040-2041 season when we have 78167 members to their paltry 76261. As an intersting aside, the only ground which will hold all of our supporters is the Rungrado May Day stadium in North Korea, which will make for a truly exciting derby atmosphere.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Tommykins

[KSK_47]

Hopefully we can get some of the local north Koreans to help out with our tifo. I hear they are pretty good at it.

[Tony999]

Just sign Messi already! He is playing below par at Barca time for him to make a move to MHFC

[Red or Dead]

http://www.soccerphile.com/melbourne-heart-has-been-a-failure

 

mind you, written by a visitor supporter. Nevertheless, what does everyone think?

I stopped reading after this line: Melbourne Heart was born out of a want, not a need. The FFA wanted a second Melbourne team. Melbourne didn't need a second team.

 

Melbourne DID NEED a second team. Not everyone was a Victory supporter before Heart came along and I reckon most Heart supporters are not ex-Victory supporters, but football fans who never could or did follow Victory.

 

I stopped reading that article because it was nonsense, but I get the feeling that article was written more by a Victory member who feels threatened by Heart. I know, you're thinking how could they be threatened by Heart when Victory's crowds are twice (if not three times) as big, but I reckon it's because now that Melbourne isn't a monopolised market, Victory actually have to compete and convince any new football fans to join them instead of Heart whereas over three years ago there was no other option and no other choice...that 'certainty' doesn't exist for them any more.

[jw1739]

Focus on what is under our control, not what is not.

 

The reality is that we do not, and never will, control how many members we have or how many people attend our matches. Both these things will fluctuate according to a whole raft of factors completely outside our control.

 

What FFA and football clubs have to do in this country is stop looking over their shoulders at other sports such as NRL and AFL but look at the bigger picture, which is social change. And stop trying to force square pegs into round holes. The product has to suit the customer's wants, not the other way round. Big issues, small issues, it doesn't matter - it can be seemingly the most trivial thing that will drive people away from a club or the game as a whole. And seemingly the most trivial thing will attract them to a club and the game as well.

[belaguttman]

Red or Dead, on 24 Apr 2013 - 10:15, said:

Dylan, on 24 Apr 2013 - 05:08, said:

http://www.soccerphile.com/melbourne-heart-has-been-a-failure

mind you, written by a visitor supporter. Nevertheless, what does everyone think?

I stopped reading after this line: Melbourne Heart was born out of a want, not a need. The FFA wanted a second Melbourne team. Melbourne didn't need a second team.

Melbourne DID NEED a second team. Not everyone was a Victory supporter before Heart came along and I reckon most Heart supporters are not ex-Victory supporters, but football fans who never could or did follow Victory.

I stopped reading that article because it was nonsense, but I get the feeling that article was written more by a Victory member who feels threatened by Heart. I know, you're thinking how could they be threatened by Heart when Victory's crowds are twice (if not three times) as big, but I reckon it's because now that Melbourne isn't a monopolised market, Victory actually have to compete and convince any new football fans to join them instead of Heart whereas over three years ago there was no other option and no other choice...that 'certainty' doesn't exist for them any more. It's always seemed a bizarre thought to me that Melbourne can sustain 8 or so AFL teams (whatever the number is, I know little about AFL) but somehow a city of 4 million people can only sustain 1 HAL team. How is that supposed to make sense?

MV supporters are like the older insecure sibling who suddenly wants to share the attention of his parent and constantly fantasises about his new sibling leaving home to live somewhere else. It's quite funny.

Edited April 24, 2013 by belaguttman

[Boffins]

No one goes to the pub that doesn't exist, do they?

Yes but would the pub exist if there were no customers????

Actually laughed out loud on the bus.

[Deviant]

no disrespect to anyone who is involved with this thread, be that posters, creator and/or followers, but...

 

 

Burn this fucking thread down.

[kingofhearts]

no disrespect to anyone who is involved with this thread, be that posters, creator and/or followers, but...

 

 

Burn this fucking thread down.

This.

 

Just the thread name makes it sound like some concerned mother created it.

 

Next thread name 'it's too loud at the football'

[Semper Cor]

Thought it timely to post the below link.  Most of you guys may have read it before, as it is a few months old, but again thought it pertinent in light of Paul Williams' miserable excuse of an article.

 

Cheers,

 

http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/a-league/despite-naysayers-damning-melbourne-heart-things-have-never-looked-better-writes-fox-sports-simon-hill/story-e6frf4gl-1226538514595#.UXdQDCp-9jo

[cadete]

no disrespect to anyone who is involved with this thread, be that posters, creator and/or followers, but...

 

 

Burn this fucking thread down.

This.

 

Just the thread name makes it sound like some concerned mother created it.

 

Next thread name 'it's too loud at the football'

Or myself TBH.

[Tony999]

Red or Dead, on 24 Apr 2013 - 10:15, said:

Dylan, on 24 Apr 2013 - 05:08, said:

http://www.soccerphile.com/melbourne-heart-has-been-a-failure

mind you, written by a visitor supporter. Nevertheless, what does everyone think?

I stopped reading after this line: Melbourne Heart was born out of a want, not a need. The FFA wanted a second Melbourne team. Melbourne didn't need a second team.

Melbourne DID NEED a second team. Not everyone was a Victory supporter before Heart came along and I reckon most Heart supporters are not ex-Victory supporters, but football fans who never could or did follow Victory.

I stopped reading that article because it was nonsense, but I get the feeling that article was written more by a Victory member who feels threatened by Heart. I know, you're thinking how could they be threatened by Heart when Victory's crowds are twice (if not three times) as big, but I reckon it's because now that Melbourne isn't a monopolised market, Victory actually have to compete and convince any new football fans to join them instead of Heart whereas over three years ago there was no other option and no other choice...that 'certainty' doesn't exist for them any more. It's always seemed a bizarre thought to me that Melbourne can sustain 8 or so AFL teams (whatever the number is, I know little about AFL) but somehow a city of 4 million people can only sustain 1 HAL team. How is that supposed to make sense?

MV supporters are like the older insecure sibling who suddenly wants to share the attention of his parent and constantly fantasises about his new sibling leaving home to live somewhere else. It's quite funny.

 

Couldn't agree with you more. I have no idea about AFL but seeing it's forced fed down my throat from the media, I see the teams that can't even win a game get a crowd. Win, lose or draw (rare in AFL). I think the blame has to be on MH's management. It took the supporters to initiate something last season with relatively moderate success why can't they? MH needs to focus on attracting supporters rather than focusing how to break even every season.

[Peter]

Good thread to have a rant, rave, rage or just express your concerns in a 2013 sort of way.

If the thread isn't of interest, don't look in it.

We need threads like this. The off season is very long you know.

[jw1739]

Good thread to have a rant, rave, rage or just express your concerns in a 2013 sort of way.

If the thread isn't of interest, don't look in it.

We need threads like this. The off season is very long you know.

Keep the thread, maybe change the title?

 

Really got a positive lift yesterday to drive past my local hospital and see the Heart bus parked outside, and even better to come home later and find it just 50m from my driveway at the local senior school. Don't know whether it was on 'official business' of course, but I thought - 'Hell, for better or worse I'm a member of that tribe' and it made a lousy day so much better.

 

There are good things about MHFC. We just need to talk about them more often.

[Peter]

The Heart bus (assuming there is only the one) gets around a lot. I saw it parked between Mentone and Parkdale the other week.

[Peter]

A bloke at work who supports the visitors and Hellas just told me that he had it on good authority that Hearts A-League license will be bought out, with an announcement made within a month and that we will become South Melbourne Heart and be playing at Bob Jane.

I prefered it when we were going to Morwell.

[kingofhearts]

A bloke at work who supports the visitors and Hellas just told me that he had it on good authority that Hearts A-League license will be bought out, with an announcement made within a month and that we will become South Melbourne Heart and be playing at Bob Jane.

I prefered it when we were going to Morwell.

Lol victory supporters. They love nothing more than to hear the sound of their own voice.

[jw1739]

A bloke at work who supports the visitors and Hellas just told me that he had it on good authority that Hearts A-League license will be bought out, with an announcement made within a month and that we will become South Melbourne Heart and be playing at Bob Jane.

I prefered it when we were going to Morwell.

I think you had too much pinot for lunch Peter.

 

Moderators: please move post to the 'Comedy Room.'

[Tommykins]

That 'rumour' been doing the rounds for a while now, David Gallop has pointed out with the Central Coast scenario, they don't want clubs to be franchises and pack up and move.

[mus-28]

A bloke at work who supports the visitors and Hellas just told me that he had it on good authority that Hearts A-League license will be bought out, with an announcement made within a month and that we will become South Melbourne Heart and be playing at Bob Jane.

I prefered it when we were going to Morwell.

 

Those same Hellas supporters that start threads on 442, the Roar, Football Anarchy, etc claiming to be a powerhouse, whilst getting crowds of 500 odd and struggling in the VPL. If they had half an ounce of intelligence they'd realize South's best chance of becoming an A-League side is if they continually blitzed the VPL and made themselves too big for the competition. But alas they haven't, but only because they don't take it seriously and don't want to waste their money on winning an inferior comp.

 

And this is only when they're not busy starting the other threads proclaiming the impending death of the "Z-League" and the re-appearance of the NSL.

 

Cuties.

[schrecky]

First thread i see after my 6 weeks away from all things heart is a worry thread....   Im not worried, just annoyed at such a disappointing end to what was an ok season.

Anyhow ill check back in a month to see if there are better threads to look at.

 

Cant really get Aleague motivated right now...

[Red or Dead]

Good thread to have a rant, rave, rage or just express your concerns in a 2013 sort of way.

If the thread isn't of interest, don't look in it.

We need threads like this. The off season is very long you know.

Here goes:

 

1. I'm not a member of the active area, but i go to every home game and I wear my Heart gear EVERY SINGLE TIME! Even on a 35 degree day I'll take my scarf and if it's over 40 degrees and too hot for a Heart polo I'll wear a red and white singlet! Why? To support my club! It'd be nice if more than the Active fan area actually wore Heart colours too. I strongly believe it will enhance the whole spectacle that is the active area, but even if you don't think that the case, why not show support for your club by wearing red and white?

 

2. We are not Victory and we have to stop trying to be like them. Just coz they have an old school song played before the game, we go pick "so happy together" to play before the game. We didn't have to, but we have, that's fine. What pissed me off the most is that only after the second Etihad Derby did the announcer stop announcing our players' last name! Why? Because that's what Victory did at the Derby. I don't think it works for Heart. It might work for Victory when they have 16k at a game, but not so well when we only have 6k! So let's please go back to the announcer actually announcing the whole name please.

 

3. The active supporters are a VERY important part of this club. A few of you got pissed off with what came out of the representatives group saying that the club will not tolerate bad behaviour, unfriendly etiquette and idiots making other fans & families feel threatened. That's not to say they will dismantle the active area! That does mean that you need to start getting along with ACG security. I know ACG get their own power trips, but we can't continue being at war with them.

 

4. The club chose Aloisi over Ante Milicic to be coach because Aloisi had a "higher profile"...yeah, as a PLAYER!! Not as a fucking coach - it's hands down the worst decision the club's ever made. Hopefully even with a completely new team next season they'll realise - not necessarily how shit JA is but - how inexperienced he is! He does not know how to control his players, treat his players (by not shaking hands), how to adapt when you're up, how to adapt when you're down 2-0 and still playing the same counter attack shit with no bright light, no saviour, no spark in sight! Hopefully he uses this time in Europe to pick up some useful tactics because his current repertoire is...well, shit!

 

5. The club's Field of Dreams mentality of "if you build it they will come" is outdated. The club's been built, some have come, some have come and gone, but there are still so many football fans out there for the taking, but there's just been nothing inspiring about Heart to get those people to the games and get them coming again and again. We need to do things differently! Sign a bloody Marquee player. Sidwell should know - to make money you need to spend money! Spend $2m on one or two marquee players to join the club, which should also inspire the club to perform better and watch the whole bottom tier of AAMI Park fill up week after week - If they do it right, the season after we might even need to start opening up the top level for when the bigger clubs arrive!

 

6. There's no "Us Vs them" on this forum. We're all Heart fans (apart from the occasional tard). Whether we're Active Members, Category A, B or even Ace of Hearts members. We love this club and we shouldn't turn on each other, which I've seen many times over. Some of us will have opinions, thoughts, suggestions which someone else may not agree with or have different ideas, but we shouldn't turn on each other. This is where Red & White Unite so let's all get along please!

 

Anyway - I'm sure most of you will tear my post to shreds, but hey, this is the worry room and I just had to get that out off my chest. I leave you with the motto on our very own City of Melbourne's Coat of Arms, "We gather strength as we go".

 

Go Heart!

[Tommykins]

Hi Red or Dead, just a few clarification points.

 

2. All the things that you mentioned are fan initiatives that were inspired by the fan interaction game, they worked well in that circumstance and they were continued, it was entirely fan driven, the club had little to do with it.

 

4. Ante Milicic is entirely as un-proven at senior level as John Aloisi is, he has certainly had a better pedigree as an assistant, but there's no guarantee that he would be the panacea that a lot of people seem to think he would be!

 

6. I'd be very careful assuming things that people say on a forum are a true indication of their feelings, its a place to rant, rave and say things you entirely would not to another person in real life, as any trip to the Imperial will show you, there is an awful lot of solidarity in this club!

[cadete]

A bloke at work who supports the visitors and Hellas just told me that he had it on good authority that Hearts A-League license will be bought out, with an announcement made within a month and that we will become South Melbourne Heart and be playing at Bob Jane.

I prefered it when we were going to Morwell.

 

Those same Hellas supporters that start threads on 442, the Roar, Football Anarchy, etc claiming to be a powerhouse, whilst getting crowds of 500 odd and struggling in the VPL. If they had half an ounce of intelligence they'd realize South's best chance of becoming an A-League side is if they continually blitzed the VPL and made themselves too big for the competition. But alas they haven't, but only because they don't take it seriously and don't want to waste their money on winning an inferior comp.

 

And this is only when they're not busy starting the other threads proclaiming the impending death of the "Z-League" and the re-appearance of the NSL.

 

Cuties.

Great Post

[jw1739]

Hi Red or Dead, just a few clarification points.

 

2. All the things that you mentioned are fan initiatives that were inspired by the fan interaction game, they worked well in that circumstance and they were continued, it was entirely fan driven, the club had little to do with it.

 

4. Ante Milicic is entirely as un-proven at senior level as John Aloisi is, he has certainly had a better pedigree as an assistant, but there's no guarantee that he would be the panacea that a lot of people seem to think he would be!

 

6. I'd be very careful assuming things that people say on a forum are a true indication of their feelings, its a place to rant, rave and say things you entirely would not to another person in real life, as any trip to the Imperial will show you, there is an awful lot of solidarity in this club!

Well, maybe. But as some sort of unofficial face of the club and its supporters, maybe a little more unity on here wouldn't go astray.

 

RoD makes some good points, and I think we should 'dare to be different' instead of necessarily following what others do.

Edited April 29, 2013 by jw1739