possiblygeorge Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 When will CFG realise there's nothing you can do to save this club lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadete Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 The bloke cannot coach defenders, as shown by his constant enthusiasm since his first day at Heart to create Center Halves out of Midfielders... from Matt Thompson onwards. CB's are developed over time not a few training sessions. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 They say that defenders generally make the best coaches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted February 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) As I said in the match thread, as soon as we come against a team that is playing with a defensive mentality we can't score. Sure when the game is open, just off the individual ability of guys like Mooy, novillo, and Fornaroli, scoring isn't a problem. But when we actually have to break down a team trying to defend, when the team actually needs some tactical direction to score goals, we struggle. Edited February 8, 2016 by Tesla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonyboozeadams Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 2 hours ago, cadete said: The bloke cannot coach defenders, as shown by his constant enthusiasm since his first day at Heart to create Center Halves out of Midfielders... from Matt Thompson onwards. CB's are developed over time not a few training sessions. chapman? and I'm not defending JVS here, but how much do you think he actually had to do with those transfers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moops Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 4 hours ago, Tonyboozeadams said: chapman? and I'm not defending JVS here, but how much do you think he actually had to do with those transfers? I see nothing wrong with converting players, Ramos was a striker and now is a FB for Real Madrid. The problem I think is systemic with him being entrenched with KNVB. Where every left player rotates as a winger and a full back, every midfielder plays every role. He thinks that these types of players are interchangeable, even if they show no inclination, like Garuccio (the modern David Carney). Though if someone shows promise, I don't care if they get converted, it is all relative. Like I think Melling played better as a Central defender, than he does a defensive midfielder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakz7 Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 26 minutes ago, moops said: I see nothing wrong with converting players, Ramos was a striker and now is a FB for Real Madrid. The problem I think is systemic with him being entrenched with KNVB. Where every left player rotates as a winger and a full back, every midfielder plays every role. He thinks that these types of players are interchangeable, even if they show no inclination, like Garuccio (the modern David Carney). Though if someone shows promise, I don't care if they get converted, it is all relative. Like I think Melling played better as a Central defender, than he does a defensive midfielder. Umm what?!... Striker? And he was a right back for his first 4-5 years at Real before being permanently moved to centre back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Le Cube Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 8 minutes ago, hakz7 said: Umm what?!... Striker? And he was a right back for his first 4-5 years at Real before being permanently moved to centre back. Happens a fair bit, Daniel Van Buyten and Willy Sagnol started as strikers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defibrillator Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 6 hours ago, Tesla said: As I said in the match thread, as soon as we come against a team that is playing with a defensive mentality we can't score. Sure when the game is open, just off the individual ability of guys like Mooy, novillo, and Fornaroli, scoring isn't a problem. But when we actually have to break down a team trying to defend, when the team actually needs some tactical direction to score goals, we struggle. I disagree slightly Tesla - we've scored against a highly defensive Sydney as well as WSW. I think the problem is more that teams sit deep and compact knowing we're going to storm up the park with a stupidly high line and just pick us off on the counter. The weekend a case in point and the last WSW game embarrassing how far the midfield was ahead of their breaks. By ploughing forward we're clogging up all sorts of space and leaving gaping holes. Just for once I'd like us to sit a bit deeper with an organised midfield to draw a team out and give Mooy, Bruno and Harry some space to work in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadete Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 10 hours ago, Jacques Le Cube said: Happens a fair bit, Daniel Van Buyten and Willy Sagnol started as strikers. I am not saying it does not happen... but I think its easier to do at higher level where players are far more technically efficient than those playing here hence why all of JVS experiments have basically been failures. Also its far easier to convert a player into a FB than a CB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 10 minutes ago, cadete said: I am not saying it does not happen... but I think its easier to do at higher level where players are far more technically efficient than those playing here hence why all of JVS experiments have basically been failures. Also its far easier to convert a player into a FB than a CB. That's true. Look at both Hoffman and Retres careers once they moved into the RB position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadete Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Personally I just think creating CB's is a bit like getting a guy half through his AFL career and telling him his now going to play ruck... both of them are a craft that for most players require years of experience to perform consistently and not make mistakes that often penalise a team heavily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moops Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) 16 hours ago, hakz7 said: Umm what?!... Striker? And he was a right back for his first 4-5 years at Real before being permanently moved to centre back. do some research mate, striker, winger, FB. Edited February 9, 2016 by moops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moops Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 5 hours ago, cadete said: Personally I just think creating CB's is a bit like getting a guy half through his AFL career and telling him his now going to play ruck... both of them are a craft that for most players require years of experience to perform consistently and not make mistakes that often penalise a team heavily. I played Alf (got offered a sponsorship with Carlton) and it is very different to football,but your thinking is right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 12 hours ago, cadete said: Also its far easier to convert a player into a FB than a CB. Well said. I don't have a problem with converting players, particularly between positions which have a lot of similarities. winger and fullback in the modern game are very similar, despite the rantings of some on here. Centre back though, that's a much bigger challenge. Aside from the physical skills, you need to be able to read the game and anticipate what is going to happen. its no good just reacting, as strikers will always be better footballers (otherwise they wouldn't be strikers). JVS has tried 2 to my knowledge in ~4 seasons. Matt Thompson - that was just weird. Rated one of the best box to box midfielders in the league, was clearly out of his depth in defence, whilst "good" (well they were good when they arrived) defenders sat and watched. Jake Melling - clearly necessary due to injuries and so far has been surprisingly successful. Jake's different style has made a nice balance to the other defenders (extra pace for instance) and their experience has clearly been a help to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted February 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) Mascherano was converted into a CB from a DM reasonably well. I think if you want a CB that can play the ball well it's kind of what you have to do. 13 hours ago, cadete said: I am not saying it does not happen... but I think its easier to do at higher level where players are far more technically efficient than those playing here hence why all of JVS experiments have basically been failures. Also its far easier to convert a player into a FB than a CB. I see it differently, I think it's easier to convert players at lower levels because the better the standard the more specialised skills you need in each position. Edited February 9, 2016 by Tesla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moops Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 12 hours ago, Shahanga said: as strikers will always be better footballers (otherwise they wouldn't be strikers). No, they are just different, though strikers get paid more. It is more a psychological aspect between defenders or attackers, attackers need a fuck off attitude, defenders need to be calm and focused and there is just the natural inclination or x factor. There have been some brilliant CB who are as technical as a striker, they don't show as much flair because it could turn into trouble, but they are still good footballers. On 08/02/2016 at 8:43 AM, cadete said: I am not saying it does not happen... but I think its easier to do at higher level where players are far more technically efficient than those playing here hence why all of JVS experiments have basically been failures. Also its far easier to convert a player into a FB than a CB. I think FB now days have to be one of your best players, they have to defend, attack and be very athletic. There is a reason why Lahm is the best FB and it's not because a FB is an easy position to play. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jovan Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 I think all positions now days require high level technical ability. Players at the elite level get found out for minor flaws pretty quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moops Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 56 minutes ago, Jovan said: I think all positions now days require high level technical ability. Players at the elite level get found out for minor flaws pretty quickly. the level playing field is getting narrower, I can't wait for the NC lads to break in, it will be a revelation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jovan Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 16 minutes ago, moops said: the level playing field is getting narrower, I can't wait for the NC lads to break in, it will be a revelation. NC ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moops Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Just now, Jovan said: NC ? National curriculum, http://www.footballaustralia.com.au/dct/ffa-dtc-performgroup-eu-west-1/FFA%20National%20Curriculum_1ma6qrmro1pyq10gzxo5rcn7ld.pdf 4 minutes ago, Jovan said: NC ? it has started rather recently, I think the U14's have been through it from the start, I like the news and talk about it. There are things that need to be assessed imho, but I am just a dude that no one would listen to, but it's a big step forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jovan Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Not sure about this. Time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moops Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 1 minute ago, Jovan said: Not sure about this. Time will tell. why? I think it is the best thing the FFA has done in it's inception, I'm not saying it is perfect by any means, but it is a step forward in football we have never taken. The Germans, Japan, Belgians, French, Dutch, Spainish, all have a NC, if we are to progress in football, we need our education to be first class, or the best it can be. This is a start and no where near perfect, but it makes sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jovan Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 What concerns me is the prohibitive costs of junior development. Any decent kid has to spend heaps per year just to play in a decent team with a half decent coach. Add to that all these wishy washy academies popping up. Within a decade the numbers of kids playing will be half not double. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 52 minutes ago, Jovan said: Not sure about this. Time will tell. Having seen the u15 national team play in asian qualys they had brilliant technique and moved the ball like id never seen an aussie side before. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moops Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Jovan said: What concerns me is the prohibitive costs of junior development. Any decent kid has to spend heaps per year just to play in a decent team with a half decent coach. Add to that all these wishy washy academies popping up. Within a decade the numbers of kids playing will be half not double. I so agree and am hoping to win tatslotto, But I am encouraged with our association with schools, maybe there could be a scholarship opportunity. But it is good to see academies from HAL clubs. I don't want to derail the thread, but there is a lot of talk about the favelas in sth America and street football, but there has been very little footballers to come from the fevales and footsal is easilly as good, if not better than street football imho. Edited February 10, 2016 by moops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moops Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 8 minutes ago, Luke said: Having seen the u15 national team play in asian qualys they had brilliant technique and moved the ball like id never seen an aussie side before. same mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewConvert Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 1 hour ago, moops said: I so agree and am hoping to win tatslotto, But I am encouraged with our association with schools, maybe there could be a scholarship opportunity. But it is good to see academies from HAL clubs. I don't want to derail the thread, but there is a lot of talk about the favelas in sth America and street football, but there has been very little footballers to come from the fevales and footsal is easilly as good, if not better than street football imho. the favelas are only in Brazil. The rest of latin america does the street football bit. My brother upon returning from the Brazil world cup said that only one Brazilian NT player did not come from the favelas (I find that hard to believe that all bar one are from the favelas but I am not surprised). Go to any south american slum and you will find boys practising football because it is the only way out of the slums since more orthodox methods such as education and finding a job are very difficult. Over there it is always a case of who you know rather than what you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moops Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 5 minutes ago, NewConvert said: the favelas are only in Brazil. The rest of latin america does the street football bit. My brother upon returning from the Brazil world cup said that only one Brazilian NT player did not come from the favelas (I find that hard to believe that all bar one are from the favelas but I am not surprised). Go to any south american slum and you will find boys practising football because it is the only way out of the slums since more orthodox methods such as education and finding a job are very difficult. Over there it is always a case of who you know rather than what you know. SURE, it is their national sport, I am saying that the love of street football is illogical and the love of the little guy is fictional. I don't mean to demean anyone and it's a generalisation, but I have derailed this thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadete Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 2 hours ago, Jovan said: What concerns me is the prohibitive costs of junior development. Any decent kid has to spend heaps per year just to play in a decent team with a half decent coach. Add to that all these wishy washy academies popping up. Within a decade the numbers of kids playing will be half not double. Who ever came up with SEDA and the equivalent "Sporting Schools" was a fucken smart kent... they basically created a new service industry in "Teenage Babysitting". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moops Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 20 minutes ago, cadete said: Who ever came up with SEDA and the equivalent "Sporting Schools" was a fucken smart kent... they basically created a new service industry in "Teenage Babysitting". lol true' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombegongal Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 37 minutes ago, cadete said: Who ever came up with SEDA and the equivalent "Sporting Schools" was a fucken smart kent... they basically created a new service industry in "Teenage Babysitting". Sadly that's exactly what seda is. It's like the old tech schools but you leave with no skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadete Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) 1 minute ago, wombegongal said: Sadly that's exactly what seda is. It's like the old tech schools but you leave with no skills. Also it costs a fuckload more... Edited February 10, 2016 by cadete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red or Dead Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 16 minutes ago, cadete said: Also it costs a fuckload more... ...terminating JvS's contract early! Just to be on topic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverdust Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 im thinking this thread will be visited by many in around 5 hrs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverdust Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 am i alone in the fact i cant stand this guy anymore. just his name and face give me the heebie jeebies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ando Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 Getting in early on this one today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverdust Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 1 minute ago, silverdust said: am i alone in the fact i cant stand this guy anymore. just his name and face give me the heebie jeebies help me someone. i think i have a problem. it consumes me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofhearts Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 Thread will be closed today after another glorious derby win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 13 minutes ago, kingofhearts said: Thread will be closed today after another glorious derby win We should keep it going even when he takes his next job next season 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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