The JvS thread

Pete Heartspur · May 13, 2015

'Arry's 'ere!!

moops · May 13, 2015

'Arry's 'ere!!

Please no.........

kingofhearts · May 13, 2015

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Jovan · May 13, 2015

So is fair to assume that JVS will remain and therefore close thread?

moops · May 13, 2015

So is fair to assume that JVS will remain and therefore close thread?

What and take away our cathartic punching bag? you Sir, are a hard man.

Tesla · May 13, 2015

I have said it before but we should target an UK Manager with extensive experience at a number of clubs... someone who has worked with a lot different personalities and deploying a number of different playing styles.

JVS clearly has issues relating to his players some of his relationships clearly reaching breaking point, with the A-League's small lists has always been an hindrance. There is a long list of blokes now who played for JVS at Heart/City who clearly dont like him and seems Erik has joined their ranks from his recent comments in the media.

Another thing JVS has never shown is an ability to shape a game plan/structure around his particular squad or the league itself which yet another thing that a club needs to do in the A-League due to the league's particularities.

I dont care if we get a bloke who has playing us boring football as long as its winning us game... I say it over and over again but I would take a dour Steve over a flamboyant Mark Waugh any day of the week because at the end of day all that matters is results.

Why do they have to be from the UK (Scotland, England, Wales, Northern Ireland)? After all UK clubs and players are not setting the football world on fire. Neither Chelsea nor Man City are coached by someone originating from the UK. Additionally, these kind of coaches tend to go shopping every transfer window because they don't have salary caps, something that may hinder their style when they come to Oz. Oh, yeah Magilton fits your description and he was not a raging success at MV.

I do agree that a manager must have enjoyed some success with different teams. By its very nature coaching a number of clubs over a number of seasons will have exposed them to different personalities. I will caution though that both Sir Alex Ferguson and Ange don't give a rats about the players personality (and neither does Pep Guardiola).

Speaking of the aforementioned coaches, they don't care whether they are liked. They are there to get together a team that will play a game of football. The bigger question is whether the coaches are respected. If players don't respect their coach it won't be a happy club - witness the Jets' Stubbins vs the five players. As far as Erik's comments are concerned Murfy did point out that the full interview did not deviate from what JvS had said earlier.

I will disagree that JVS doesn't shape the game plan to fit the side. He did that just last season when he took over from JA. He experimented a lot during the first five games with formations and players. What annoys me is that this season he did not do that until the very end. So he can do it. I suspect that the reason why did not change all that much earlier in the season was because he was trying to instil a game plan into the side but that failed. Now one possible reason as to why that happened was because of the constant injury issues that the club has had and therefore it did not come off. Another reason maybe that it was predictable game plan. Or perhaps because the players did not buy it. Or a combination of the three plus more.

My reasons for losing faith in JVS are that at times the players did not show up - which indicate that he has lost them to some extent. he persisted with some players for far too long and he did not experiment enough during the season. He did so at the end but for me that was too late.

Do I want a team playing boring football but winning? I'll reluctantly take that. Much prefer a winning and exciting team but that will also mean that the player clean out continues.

The reason I think a coach from the UK would be good is because the majority of squad is Australian and thus communication issues should be easier to overcome and alongside this UK coaches even in the Second and Third Tiers these days also coach a lot of Foreign players (You would be surprised how many their are when you look at Squad Lists for these clubs) and therefore have experience of coaching Foreigners in an English Speaking country.

I also think their is high variety of playing styles and formation used in the English Leagues these days due to the large influx of foreigners.

You also see a lot of UK managers who consistently get sacked and re-hired because of their experience in being able to manage and communicate with players... that's the type of coach I think we need.

I don't think that Gombau has any issues communicating with his players. And I have worked with enough tools who had English as their only language and they could not communicate to save a company. Communications is more than ability to speak English and JVS' English is pretty good, so if there are communication problems I don't think that it has to do with the language. Besides he does have assistants that could help if required. Then there is the ability of players ability to communicate with one another on the pitch, which could preclude any visa players from non-english speaking countries.

I will presume that you meant to say that we need a manager that can communicate and coach the players rather than a manager that gets constantly sacked and re-hired. In which case I totally agree with you - this has to be an integral part of the job.

You also touched on a different cultural point. In Australian sports when the coach gets fired they tend to stay fired, very rarely re-hired. The only one I can think of is Rodney Eade - Swans, WB and now GC. Some others have been fired and re-hired as assistants: Ratten, Neeld, and Voss. The rest go to the district leagues.

PPL love to mention Gombau on here but the guy is yet to make a Grand Final, in fact if MV win the GF you could argue when did just as well as Adelaide this season if it was us knocked out by the eventual Premier.

Both coaches in this Season's GF are Australian as the last few and it undeniable that Australian's have been the most successful coaches in the A-League alongside a Brit/Scot in Ernie Merrick.

We should have thrown everything to get Arnold before last season but considering the best Australian coaches look taken for the immediate short term I think the next best similar type of coach as far as communication goes is most likely a Brit.

I'm a firm believer the performance of a coach is judged based on what they achieved with the squad and resources they had. And I'd say the rating of the squad should be based on what it looked like on paper at the start of the season, because if the coach is able to get more out of players and make them look better then that's part of being a good coach, and if the opposite applies and players that looked good on paper at the start of the season turn to trash that's part of being a bad coach (JVS). Adelaide weren't on the same level as Sydney and Victory in that regard, their squad was a fair bit inferior. But certainly a better squad than Wellington.

Honestly I'd say Gombau has shown he is better than Muscat if you ask me, Victory easily had the best squad going into the season, but i'd say Merrick with his absolutely shit squad achieved more than both of them. But Arnold takes the prize for best coach this season, had a worse squad than Victory, was doing extremely well with it, had a ridiculous injury crisis that saw them hit a bad form that cost them 1st spot, rebuilt the squad with new signings, completely changed the way the team play going from a team that had the best defence and won via defensive strength to a team with the best attack that won based on their attack. Now he will win the final as well, so there will certainly be no doubts after that.

Anyway, if you ask me:

1. Arnold

2. Merrick

3. Gombau

4. Muscat

10. JVS

Tesla · May 13, 2015

So is fair to assume that JVS will remain and therefore close thread?

Don't mind closing the thread, but I'll open a 2015/2016 edition straight away, don't even need to see the first two games this time around to know.

moops · May 13, 2015

So is fair to assume that JVS will remain and therefore close thread?

Don't mind closing the thread, but I'll open a 2015/2016 edition straight away, don't even need to see the first two games this time around to know.

Let alone the FFA cup

benzema23 · May 13, 2015

Is it too soon for a 'in JVS we trust' thread? I mean he got us to the semis

He needs to start qualifying us for the ACL every year, but not win any trophies, except the occasional FFA cup.

I'll even start calling him 'Le Prof'.

In all seriousness, I don't see JVS getting us higher than 6th, not sure what the club is thinking in keeping him. Are they going for stability?

silverdust · May 13, 2015

how does he have a job?. iam just shocked. who is running this tragic comedy?

moops · May 13, 2015

I have said it before but we should target an UK Manager with extensive experience at a number of clubs... someone who has worked with a lot different personalities and deploying a number of different playing styles.

JVS clearly has issues relating to his players some of his relationships clearly reaching breaking point, with the A-League's small lists has always been an hindrance. There is a long list of blokes now who played for JVS at Heart/City who clearly dont like him and seems Erik has joined their ranks from his recent comments in the media.

Another thing JVS has never shown is an ability to shape a game plan/structure around his particular squad or the league itself which yet another thing that a club needs to do in the A-League due to the league's particularities.

I dont care if we get a bloke who has playing us boring football as long as its winning us game... I say it over and over again but I would take a dour Steve over a flamboyant Mark Waugh any day of the week because at the end of day all that matters is results.

Why do they have to be from the UK (Scotland, England, Wales, Northern Ireland)? After all UK clubs and players are not setting the football world on fire. Neither Chelsea nor Man City are coached by someone originating from the UK. Additionally, these kind of coaches tend to go shopping every transfer window because they don't have salary caps, something that may hinder their style when they come to Oz. Oh, yeah Magilton fits your description and he was not a raging success at MV.

I do agree that a manager must have enjoyed some success with different teams. By its very nature coaching a number of clubs over a number of seasons will have exposed them to different personalities. I will caution though that both Sir Alex Ferguson and Ange don't give a rats about the players personality (and neither does Pep Guardiola).

Speaking of the aforementioned coaches, they don't care whether they are liked. They are there to get together a team that will play a game of football. The bigger question is whether the coaches are respected. If players don't respect their coach it won't be a happy club - witness the Jets' Stubbins vs the five players. As far as Erik's comments are concerned Murfy did point out that the full interview did not deviate from what JvS had said earlier.

I will disagree that JVS doesn't shape the game plan to fit the side. He did that just last season when he took over from JA. He experimented a lot during the first five games with formations and players. What annoys me is that this season he did not do that until the very end. So he can do it. I suspect that the reason why did not change all that much earlier in the season was because he was trying to instil a game plan into the side but that failed. Now one possible reason as to why that happened was because of the constant injury issues that the club has had and therefore it did not come off. Another reason maybe that it was predictable game plan. Or perhaps because the players did not buy it. Or a combination of the three plus more.

My reasons for losing faith in JVS are that at times the players did not show up - which indicate that he has lost them to some extent. he persisted with some players for far too long and he did not experiment enough during the season. He did so at the end but for me that was too late.

Do I want a team playing boring football but winning? I'll reluctantly take that. Much prefer a winning and exciting team but that will also mean that the player clean out continues.

The reason I think a coach from the UK would be good is because the majority of squad is Australian and thus communication issues should be easier to overcome and alongside this UK coaches even in the Second and Third Tiers these days also coach a lot of Foreign players (You would be surprised how many their are when you look at Squad Lists for these clubs) and therefore have experience of coaching Foreigners in an English Speaking country.

I also think their is high variety of playing styles and formation used in the English Leagues these days due to the large influx of foreigners.
You also see a lot of UK managers who consistently get sacked and re-hired because of their experience in being able to manage and communicate with players... that's the type of coach I think we need.

I don't think that Gombau has any issues communicating with his players. And I have worked with enough tools who had English as their only language and they could not communicate to save a company. Communications is more than ability to speak English and JVS' English is pretty good, so if there are communication problems I don't think that it has to do with the language. Besides he does have assistants that could help if required. Then there is the ability of players ability to communicate with one another on the pitch, which could preclude any visa players from non-english speaking countries.

I will presume that you meant to say that we need a manager that can communicate and coach the players rather than a manager that gets constantly sacked and re-hired. In which case I totally agree with you - this has to be an integral part of the job.

You also touched on a different cultural point. In Australian sports when the coach gets fired they tend to stay fired, very rarely re-hired. The only one I can think of is Rodney Eade - Swans, WB and now GC. Some others have been fired and re-hired as assistants: Ratten, Neeld, and Voss. The rest go to the district leagues.

PPL love to mention Gombau on here but the guy is yet to make a Grand Final, in fact if MV win the GF you could argue when did just as well as Adelaide this season if it was us knocked out by the eventual Premier.

Both coaches in this Season's GF are Australian as the last few and it undeniable that Australian's have been the most successful coaches in the A-League alongside a Brit/Scot in Ernie Merrick.

We should have thrown everything to get Arnold before last season but considering the best Australian coaches look taken for the immediate short term I think the next best similar type of coach as far as communication goes is most likely a Brit.

I'm a firm believer the performance of a coach is judged based on what they achieved with the squad and resources they had. And I'd say the rating of the squad should be based on what it looked like on paper at the start of the season, because if the coach is able to get more out of players and make them look better then that's part of being a good coach, and if the opposite applies and players that looked good on paper at the start of the season turn to trash that's part of being a bad coach (JVS). Adelaide weren't on the same level as Sydney and Victory in that regard, their squad was a fair bit inferior. But certainly a better squad than Wellington.
Honestly I'd say Gombau has shown he is better than Muscat if you ask me, Victory easily had the best squad going into the season, but i'd say Merrick with his absolutely shit squad achieved more than both of them. But Arnold takes the prize for best coach this season, had a worse squad than Victory, was doing extremely well with it, had a ridiculous injury crisis that saw them hit a bad form that cost them 1st spot, rebuilt the squad with new signings, completely changed the way the team play going from a team that had the best defence and won via defensive strength to a team with the best attack that won based on their attack. Now he will win the final as well, so there will certainly be no doubts after that.
Anyway, if you ask me:
1. Arnold
2. Merrick
3. Gombau
4. Muscat
10. JVS

I would swap Merrick with Arnold

Tesla · May 13, 2015