The JvS thread

[KSK_47]

I think JVS would be an exceptional manager of a team full of stars, who know the ropes and are self-reliant.

To get to that stage I believe we need a hard-nosed coach who will bark at the players and instill a strong sense of mongrel/desire/attitude. I don't believe this type of manager is suited to teams 'at the top'.

Therefore I would like to see us bring in a bullish assistant who would ideally be the players manager for the short term, with JVS having more of a high end role.

Once the time comes and we develop a proper fucking winning mentality we can then re-address JVS and the assistant's role.

That would be how I'd address this mediocre situation.

Lol. So basically what you are saying is if he had a squad of players and an assistant that could do his job for him, he would be good at his job.

Fuck me, this forum makes my head spin sometimes. Seems to have worked for both Popovic and Ange. Oh, what could have been if Ante was given the head coach position rather than JA...

Obviously you need good support staff to succeed but to say that Ange's track record isn't because of him is about as far fetched as people thinking JVS' track record isn't because of him.

[n i k o]

When JVS took over last season from the 30th December - 12th April 2014 his record stood at a 40% win rate. At the end of the season we saw a number of players brought in which should have strengthened the team. Now he is sitting with a 33% win rate. This team right now should be better than what we had last season because all we have done is strengthened the team with new players. Yes there are still players that must be removed but they are also the same players under JVS last season that lead us to that 40% win rate.

I'm tiring of excuses, so I ask those of you that are not questioning JVS ability to ask yourselves how he can have an improved squad compared to last season and be doing worse?

[jw1739]

When JVS took over last season from the 30th December - 12th April 2014 his record stood at a 40% win rate. At the end of the season we saw a number of players brought in which should have strengthened the team. Now he is sitting with a 33% win rate. This team right now should be better than what we had last season because all we have done is strengthened the team with new players. Yes there are still players that must be removed but they are also the same players under JVS last season that lead us to that 40% win rate.

I'm tiring of excuses, so I ask those of you that are not questioning JVS ability to ask yourselves how he can have an improved squad compared to last season and be doing worse?

While I'm on your side I'd say there are excuses that can be brought up. The first is injuries. The second is that although we have strengthened our squad we have ended up with a very unbalanced squad. A third is that while we may have improved our squad a number of other clubs strengthened their squads by a lot more than we did.

[n i k o]

When JVS took over last season from the 30th December - 12th April 2014 his record stood at a 40% win rate. At the end of the season we saw a number of players brought in which should have strengthened the team. Now he is sitting with a 33% win rate. This team right now should be better than what we had last season because all we have done is strengthened the team with new players. Yes there are still players that must be removed but they are also the same players under JVS last season that lead us to that 40% win rate.

I'm tiring of excuses, so I ask those of you that are not questioning JVS ability to ask yourselves how he can have an improved squad compared to last season and be doing worse?

While I'm on your side I'd say there are excuses that can be brought up. The first is injuries. The second is that although we have strengthened our squad we have ended up with a very unbalanced squad. A third is that while we may have improved our squad a number of other clubs strengthened their squads by a lot more than we did. 1) Injuries happen every season to nearly every club. Not a valid excuse imo.

2) When you have nearly half a squad to fill in with new players at the beginning of the season then there is no excuses for imbalance.

3) Other squads have improved more than us? Maybe we just got it wrong and didnt improve the right positions.

Edited: Or perhaps we do have good enough players to do better and the manager just can't get the most out of them.

Edited February 9, 2015 by n i k o

[belaguttman]

 

 

 

Even if we were 20 points off the top six that isn't acceptable in a derby. 

Never mind the derby, it isn't an acceptable performance in any game against any team.

[jw1739]

 

 

When JVS took over last season from the 30th December - 12th April 2014 his record stood at a 40% win rate. At the end of the season we saw a number of players brought in which should have strengthened the team. Now he is sitting with a 33% win rate. This team right now should be better than what we had last season because all we have done is strengthened the team with new players. Yes there are still players that must be removed but they are also the same players under JVS last season that lead us to that 40% win rate.

I'm tiring of excuses, so I ask those of you that are not questioning JVS ability to ask yourselves how he can have an improved squad compared to last season and be doing worse?

While I'm on your side I'd say there are excuses that can be brought up. The first is injuries. The second is that although we have strengthened our squad we have ended up with a very unbalanced squad. A third is that while we may have improved our squad a number of other clubs strengthened their squads by a lot more than we did. 1) Injuries happen every season to nearly every club. Not a valid excuse imo.

2) When you have nearly half a squad to fill in with new players at the beginning of the season then there is no excuses for imbalance.

3) Other squads have improved more than us? Maybe we just got it wrong and didnt improve the right positions.

Edited: Or perhaps we do have good enough players to do better and the manager just can't get the most out of them.

 

I'm not saying these are valid excuses. Just that they are at least part of why we have apparently "improved the squad" but are not getting improved results.

[belaguttman]

Football is a 'weakest link' game. You get more value by culling and replacing the worst players (Redders, Ramsay, Hoffman etc) than by adding Villa or Kennedy or Koren.

[n i k o]

When JVS took over last season from the 30th December - 12th April 2014 his record stood at a 40% win rate. At the end of the season we saw a number of players brought in which should have strengthened the team. Now he is sitting with a 33% win rate. This team right now should be better than what we had last season because all we have done is strengthened the team with new players. Yes there are still players that must be removed but they are also the same players under JVS last season that lead us to that 40% win rate.

I'm tiring of excuses, so I ask those of you that are not questioning JVS ability to ask yourselves how he can have an improved squad compared to last season and be doing worse?

While I'm on your side I'd say there are excuses that can be brought up. The first is injuries. The second is that although we have strengthened our squad we have ended up with a very unbalanced squad. A third is that while we may have improved our squad a number of other clubs strengthened their squads by a lot more than we did. 1) Injuries happen every season to nearly every club. Not a valid excuse imo.

2) When you have nearly half a squad to fill in with new players at the beginning of the season then there is no excuses for imbalance.

3) Other squads have improved more than us? Maybe we just got it wrong and didnt improve the right positions.

Edited: Or perhaps we do have good enough players to do better and the manager just can't get the most out of them.

I'm not saying these are valid excuses. Just that they are at least part of why we have apparently "improved the squad" but are not getting improved results.

Yeah I know, but I wanted to refute them anyway

[japiedog]

Football is a 'weakest link' game. You get more value by culling and replacing the worst players (Redders, Ramsay, Hoffman etc) than by adding Villa or Kennedy or Koren.

true 

but unfortunately, we are restricted/constrained by squad levels and salary caps etc

I think that we all know that there will be a  clearing of the out of contract deadwood at the end of this season, and the following one,

Nice rumour on JVS being released at the end of the season

[belaguttman]

 

Football is a 'weakest link' game. You get more value by culling and replacing the worst players (Redders, Ramsay, Hoffman etc) than by adding Villa or Kennedy or Koren.

true 

but unfortunately, we are restricted/constrained by squad levels and salary caps etc

I think that we all know that there will be a  clearing of the out of contract deadwood at the end of this season, and the following one,

Nice rumour on JVS being released at the end of the season

 

He was pretty adamant that the decision had already been made.

We need some better 'weakest links'

[cadete]

 

I think JVS would be an exceptional manager of a team full of stars, who know the ropes and are self-reliant.

To get to that stage I believe we need a hard-nosed coach who will bark at the players and instill a strong sense of mongrel/desire/attitude. I don't believe this type of manager is suited to teams 'at the top'.

Therefore I would like to see us bring in a bullish assistant who would ideally be the players manager for the short term, with JVS having more of a high end role.

Once the time comes and we develop a proper fucking winning mentality we can then re-address JVS and the assistant's role.

That would be how I'd address this mediocre situation.

Lol. So basically what you are saying is if he had a squad of players and an assistant that could do his job for him, he would be good at his job.

Fuck me, this forum makes my head spin sometimes.

 

Seriously, I do not think their will be a better post on this forum this season than this one from KSK...

 

And importantly it is actually relevant to why we log in to this place because we actually care about this  fucken shit football side we all have to watch every week.

Edited February 9, 2015 by cadete

[jw1739]

 

Football is a 'weakest link' game. You get more value by culling and replacing the worst players (Redders, Ramsay, Hoffman etc) than by adding Villa or Kennedy or Koren.

true 

but unfortunately, we are restricted/constrained by squad levels and salary caps etc

I think that we all know that there will be a  clearing of the out of contract deadwood at the end of this season, and the following one,

Nice rumour on JVS being released at the end of the season

We thought that there would be a similar clearing-out of deadwood at the end of last season as well. It is true that some players were released, but IMO there were some re-signings that should not have been.

 

Where exactly is this rumour on van 't Schip coming from? If a decision has been made, then why not do it now instead of giving the bloke more time to do further damage to the club? It might be true that replacing a coach part-way through a season doesn't change the results dramatically, but I'd argue that leaving a non-performer in place does a lot of damage to the club's image and credibility.

[Jestr]

I think JVS would be an exceptional manager of a team full of stars, who know the ropes and are self-reliant.

To get to that stage I believe we need a hard-nosed coach who will bark at the players and instill a strong sense of mongrel/desire/attitude. I don't believe this type of manager is suited to teams 'at the top'.

Therefore I would like to see us bring in a bullish assistant who would ideally be the players manager for the short term, with JVS having more of a high end role.

Once the time comes and we develop a proper fucking winning mentality we can then re-address JVS and the assistant's role.

That would be how I'd address this mediocre situation.

Lol. So basically what you are saying is if he had a squad of players and an assistant that could do his job for him, he would be good at his job.

Fuck me, this forum makes my head spin sometimes.

Seriously, I do not think their will be a better post on this forum this season than this one from KSK...

And importantly it is actually relevant to why we log in to this place because we actually care about this fucken shit football side we all have to watch every week. I'm finding small hair line fractures in my care cup

[KSK_47]

I think JVS would be an exceptional manager of a team full of stars, who know the ropes and are self-reliant.

To get to that stage I believe we need a hard-nosed coach who will bark at the players and instill a strong sense of mongrel/desire/attitude. I don't believe this type of manager is suited to teams 'at the top'.

Therefore I would like to see us bring in a bullish assistant who would ideally be the players manager for the short term, with JVS having more of a high end role.

Once the time comes and we develop a proper fucking winning mentality we can then re-address JVS and the assistant's role.

That would be how I'd address this mediocre situation.

Lol. So basically what you are saying is if he had a squad of players and an assistant that could do his job for him, he would be good at his job.

Fuck me, this forum makes my head spin sometimes.

Seriously, I do not think their will be a better post on this forum this season than this one from KSK...

And importantly it is actually relevant to why we log in to this place because we actually care about this fucken shit football side we all have to watch every week.I'm finding small hair line fractures in my care cup I am too. Well sort of. I am trying to force myself to stop caring but if I'm honest, I care. I care a lot. I can't help it, no matter how much I try to convince myself not to

Edited February 9, 2015 by KSK_47

[morphine]

I think JVS would be an exceptional manager of a team full of stars, who know the ropes and are self-reliant.

To get to that stage I believe we need a hard-nosed coach who will bark at the players and instill a strong sense of mongrel/desire/attitude. I don't believe this type of manager is suited to teams 'at the top'.

Therefore I would like to see us bring in a bullish assistant who would ideally be the players manager for the short term, with JVS having more of a high end role.

Once the time comes and we develop a proper fucking winning mentality we can then re-address JVS and the assistant's role.

That would be how I'd address this mediocre situation.

Lol. So basically what you are saying is if he had a squad of players and an assistant that could do his job for him, he would be good at his job.

Fuck me, this forum makes my head spin sometimes. That's an exceptionally simple way to look at it. One person doesn't have to/can't be expected to/shouldn't be in charge of multiple aspects/roles within an organisation. It's about balance and utilizing strengths.

We should aim for a strong squad, strong assistants with different strengths and so forth.

Having a bull of a manager who is in charge of the whole football department might have been the optimal situation in the 80s, but times change.

I'd also be very interested to see what our sports psychology department looked like.

[SF33]

 

 

 

 

Even if we were 20 points off the top six that isn't acceptable in a derby. 

Never mind the derby, it isn't an acceptable performance in any game against any team.

 

 

I couldn't agree more. But, if it's the twilight Sunday game against Central Coast in Gosford a couple of days before a month-long break and you're on a nice little winning streak, I can kind of understand it (not saying I accept it). But a derby at Etihad? For some of the players that were on the park for us on Saturday night, it will probably be the biggest game of their career (or equal biggest, depending on how many derbies they appear in). So, it's hard to pull out the old 'weren't switched on'/'didn't come to play' cliches, in that context. Could you 'not come to play' in a final? I'd argue, no, you can't. You can be outplayed and outcoached though.

Edited February 9, 2015 by SF33

[KSK_47]

I think JVS would be an exceptional manager of a team full of stars, who know the ropes and are self-reliant.

To get to that stage I believe we need a hard-nosed coach who will bark at the players and instill a strong sense of mongrel/desire/attitude. I don't believe this type of manager is suited to teams 'at the top'.

Therefore I would like to see us bring in a bullish assistant who would ideally be the players manager for the short term, with JVS having more of a high end role.

Once the time comes and we develop a proper fucking winning mentality we can then re-address JVS and the assistant's role.

That would be how I'd address this mediocre situation.

Lol. So basically what you are saying is if he had a squad of players and an assistant that could do his job for him, he would be good at his job.

Fuck me, this forum makes my head spin sometimes.That's an exceptionally simple way to look at it. One person doesn't have to/can't be expected to/shouldn't be in charge of multiple aspects/roles within an organisation. It's about balance and utilizing strengths.

We should aim for a strong squad, strong assistants with different strengths and so forth.

Having a bull of a manager who is in charge of the whole football department might have been the optimal situation in the 80s, but times change.

I'd also be very interested to see what our sports psychology department looked like. No. It's a realistic way to look at it. As mentioned before you need a good support team to be successful, but the head coach plays a massive role and has to be on top of multiple aspects of things. This is the A League. We don't have huge lists of coaching staff for every conceivable aspect of the game. The fact you think we actually have a psychology department at all is pretty funny and a good indication that you have no idea of the reality of how things work.

Edited February 9, 2015 by KSK_47

[morphine]

I think JVS would be an exceptional manager of a team full of stars, who know the ropes and are self-reliant.

To get to that stage I believe we need a hard-nosed coach who will bark at the players and instill a strong sense of mongrel/desire/attitude. I don't believe this type of manager is suited to teams 'at the top'.

Therefore I would like to see us bring in a bullish assistant who would ideally be the players manager for the short term, with JVS having more of a high end role.

Once the time comes and we develop a proper fucking winning mentality we can then re-address JVS and the assistant's role.

That would be how I'd address this mediocre situation.

Lol. So basically what you are saying is if he had a squad of players and an assistant that could do his job for him, he would be good at his job.

Fuck me, this forum makes my head spin sometimes.That's an exceptionally simple way to look at it. One person doesn't have to/can't be expected to/shouldn't be in charge of multiple aspects/roles within an organisation. It's about balance and utilizing strengths.

We should aim for a strong squad, strong assistants with different strengths and so forth.

Having a bull of a manager who is in charge of the whole football department might have been the optimal situation in the 80s, but times change.

I'd also be very interested to see what our sports psychology department looked like.No. It's a realistic way to look at it. As mentioned before you need a good support team to be successful, but the head coach plays a massive role and has to be on top of multiple aspects of things. This is the A League. We don't have huge lists of coaching staff for every conceivable aspect of the game. The fact you think we actually have a psychology department at all is pretty funny and a good indication that you have no idea of the reality of how things work. You're right, if we indeed do not contract/use psychologists at all, I guess I don't have any idea.

If we do though and you are wrong, it'd make you re-evaluate your condescending attitude though.

I'd be very interested to find out, as I said.

[SF33]

 

 

 

 

I think JVS would be an exceptional manager of a team full of stars, who know the ropes and are self-reliant.

To get to that stage I believe we need a hard-nosed coach who will bark at the players and instill a strong sense of mongrel/desire/attitude. I don't believe this type of manager is suited to teams 'at the top'.

Therefore I would like to see us bring in a bullish assistant who would ideally be the players manager for the short term, with JVS having more of a high end role.

Once the time comes and we develop a proper fucking winning mentality we can then re-address JVS and the assistant's role.

That would be how I'd address this mediocre situation.

Lol. So basically what you are saying is if he had a squad of players and an assistant that could do his job for him, he would be good at his job.

Fuck me, this forum makes my head spin sometimes. That's an exceptionally simple way to look at it. One person doesn't have to/can't be expected to/shouldn't be in charge of multiple aspects/roles within an organisation. It's about balance and utilizing strengths.

We should aim for a strong squad, strong assistants with different strengths and so forth.

Having a bull of a manager who is in charge of the whole football department might have been the optimal situation in the 80s, but times change.

I'd also be very interested to see what our sports psychology department looked like. No. It's a realistic way to look at it. As mentioned before you need a good support team to be successful, but the head coach plays a massive role and has to be on top of multiple aspects of things. This is the A League. We don't have huge lists of coaching staff for every conceivable aspect of the game. The fact you think we actually have a psychology department at all is pretty funny and a good indication that you have no idea of the reality of how things work. You're right, if we indeed do not contract/use psychologists at all, I guess I don't have any idea.

If we do though and you are wrong, it'd make you re-evaluate your condescending attitude though.

I'd be very interested to find out, as I said.

 

 

I'd suggest that if they didn't just outsource it, they'd have one part-timer who would split their week between about 6-8 professional sporting teams in Melbourne. And who probably spent 80% of their time at Heart last year trying to exorcise Mifsud's demons.

[KSK_47]

You said psychology department. As in a dedicated team of psychologists on staff. It's not the same as using psychologists.

If we do use psychologists at all, I'm not sure. Usually the coaching staff act as a sort of psychologist so they don't need to use them.

[malloy]

 

 

 

 

I think JVS would be an exceptional manager of a team full of stars, who know the ropes and are self-reliant.

To get to that stage I believe we need a hard-nosed coach who will bark at the players and instill a strong sense of mongrel/desire/attitude. I don't believe this type of manager is suited to teams 'at the top'.

Therefore I would like to see us bring in a bullish assistant who would ideally be the players manager for the short term, with JVS having more of a high end role.

Once the time comes and we develop a proper fucking winning mentality we can then re-address JVS and the assistant's role.

That would be how I'd address this mediocre situation.

Lol. So basically what you are saying is if he had a squad of players and an assistant that could do his job for him, he would be good at his job.

Fuck me, this forum makes my head spin sometimes.

Seriously, I do not think their will be a better post on this forum this season than this one from KSK...

And importantly it is actually relevant to why we log in to this place because we actually care about this fucken shit football side we all have to watch every week. I'm finding small hair line fractures in my care cup I am too. Well sort of. I am trying to force myself to stop caring but if I'm honest, I care. I care a lot. I can't help it, no matter how much I try to convince myself not to

 

 

My care cup is more like a care sieve at the moment.  So much so that I wasn't even embarrassed when I saw the photo of inter city elite.

[sheepdog]

My care cup is 2nd hand from 2 girls 1 cup.

Pretty shitful at the moment.

[Heart of Melbourne]

Rumour is that JVS is on the chopping block. Will be lucky to see the week out. Let's wait and see.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Heart of Melbourne

[kingofhearts]

Rumour is that JVS is on the chopping block. Will be lucky to see the week out. Let's wait and see.

From a reliable source?

[Victards]

Rumour is that JVS is on the chopping block. Will be lucky to see the week out. Let's wait and see.

From a reliable source? greek construction worker

[belaguttman]

You said psychology department. As in a dedicated team of psychologists on staff. It's not the same as using psychologists.

If we do use psychologists at all, I'm not sure. Usually the coaching staff act as a sort of psychologist so they don't need to use them.

I doubt that we have any sports psychology input looking at how brittle the team belief is. I'll help if they pay me what I'm worth

[Heart of Melbourne]

Rumour is that JVS is on the chopping block. Will be lucky to see the week out. Let's wait and see.

From a reliable source?greek construction workerFuck the cfmeu Someone within the club. I believe a conference is happening tomorrow. If he does survive a loss against Wellington this weekend will be curtains for JVS.

[Falastur]

 

 

 

 

Rumour is that JVS is on the chopping block. Will be lucky to see the week out. Let's wait and see.

From a reliable source? greek construction worker Fuck the cfmeu Someone within the club. I believe a conference is happening tomorrow. If he does survive a loss against Wellington this weekend will be curtains for JVS.

 

 

But tomorrow isn't Thursday? How can there be a press release on a non-Thursday?

[n i k o]

Rumour is that JVS is on the chopping block. Will be lucky to see the week out. Let's wait and see.

From a reliable source?greek construction workerFuck the cfmeu Someone within the club. I believe a conference is happening tomorrow. If he does survive a loss against Wellington this weekend will be curtains for JVS.

So are you saying if he wins he will get sacked?

[jw1739]

 

 

 

 

 

Rumour is that JVS is on the chopping block. Will be lucky to see the week out. Let's wait and see.

From a reliable source? greek construction worker Fuck the cfmeu Someone within the club. I believe a conference is happening tomorrow. If he does survive a loss against Wellington this weekend will be curtains for JVS.

So are you saying if he wins he will get sacked?

 

A vital comma missed in the final sentence - "If he does survive (the conference), a loss against Wellington...will be curtains for JvS."

Edited February 9, 2015 by jw1739

[jw1739]

And fair enough too. And a few heads need to roll in our playing group as well. All four teams currently below us have had a difficult season - Brisbane sacked their coach after squad problems, CCM have lost a lot of players and are under a new coach, Newcastle are in turmoil in every respect, and WSW have had significant squad changes and a dispute over player payments.

 

By contrast our mob have had it all too easy, including two overseas junkets. They have been given every opportunity to perform to their maximum. There is no question that City has underperformed and that change is required.

[Heart of Melbourne]

Rumour is that JVS is on the chopping block. Will be lucky to see the week out. Let's wait and see.

From a reliable source?greek construction workerFuck the cfmeuSomeone within the club. I believe a conference is happening tomorrow. If he does survive a loss against Wellington this weekend will be curtains for JVS. So are you saying if he wins he will get sacked?

A vital comma missed in the final sentence - "If he does survive (the conference), a loss against Wellington...will be curtains for JvS."

Thanks JW

[jw1739]

It would be ironic if a loss against Wellington was the straw that broke the camel's back for two consecutive head coaches...

[Jovan]

Wellington could become the "coach killer"

[jw1739]

Gents, good discussion and deserves its own thread in the Club Room forum.

[hedaik]

Gents, good discussion and deserves its own thread in the Club Room forum.

 

Moved to 

[HOLLYWOOD]

Everytime I go on Foxsports or here I expect to see "Schip Sailed - City axe manager"... everytime I'm disappointed.

[haz]

Anyone else had the thought that the next manager at City will have the first name John?

[Thrillhouse]

Anyone else had the thought that the next manager at City will have the first name John?

must be tanned too

[fortheloveofthegame]

Tinker style clean out perhaps?