Murfy1 Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Murdocca and Migliorini, IMO, have been a bit mediocre in defence and general play over our last 3 games (against Newcastle, Adelaide and WSW). But apart from that, they both have done a solid job this season, and Murdocca in particular has been one of our best, if not our best, player. They were hardworking and quality in the derby, and in games like the Brisbane match Murdocca had the most tackles (9) whilst Migliorini had the most interceptions and ball recoveries. I agree with others who have said our DMs have been let down by our forwards defending in front of them (who have been unable to press together consistently), and our back 4 behind them (who have made a number of silly mistakes). I also think if Kewell could play regularly (or even if we played another serviceable 10), Murdocca and Migliorini would get back to their best form, and we'd actually have a pretty good midfield (even if Aloisi continues to use our midfield poorly and ineffectively). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombegongal Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Part of our midfield problem is we can't keep the ball. As a result these guys have to cover even more ground. Mass is a box to box work horse who I think was bought in to compliment Kewell and Engelaar. That at least i think is the logic I guess time will tell. On another note I'd like to make an observation on the aussie test cricket team and the red devils. Both have had contrasting results since a change of coach. Australia are playing cricket like a team possessed while the red devils look bereft of confidence. Just shows what the right or wrong manager can do with the same cattle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandev Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) Hersi wasn't shit. He was marked well and kept quiet by Behich. Good game for Aziz Edited December 9, 2013 by Pandev 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandev Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 So it seems Migliorini can score, but costs us goals every second game.....i guess this is the reason he didn't make it in Serie B 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malloy Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) Anyone who thinks Murdocca is shit clearly doesn't know anything about football and should go back to following AFL edit: We are leaking goals because of our attack (and the way in which we go about attacking) not because of our defence Edited December 9, 2013 by malloy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libero Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Anyone who thinks Murdocca is shit clearly doesn't know anything about football and should go back to following AFL edit: We are leaking goals because of our attack (and the way in which we go about attacking) not because of our defence This. The best way to defend is to attack. These people criticising Migliorini and Mudocca - They are not the best defensively, but that was not the role they were recruited for. if we had Engelaar, Migliorini and Murdocca at CM it would be the definition of ideal balance. thing havent turned out that way, but they are doing well considering... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardRed Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 I cant believe i just read an attack on Murdocca The guy is quality in amongst wannabees If HK gets a good run we will see the best come out of Massimo - skill-full intelligent Footballers like to pass in triangles and keep possession as we did for about 4 mins last sunday (which was great to watch ) Leave MM alone - after each game i bet he thinks to himself why did i leave Roar for Heart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrison Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 I would love to know why everyone is backing Murdocca. The guy is everything that is wrong with Heart. Mediocrity. We've just seen it for so long that when a 29 year old hack with an engine comes to our team, we think he is a god send.There is a reason that Roar got rid of him. When a team that wins fucking football matches releases a player, we shouldn't go near him. The best way to defend is to attack yes, but Mifsud pressures well and Williams does too. The others aren't too good I know. But to say that our attack is the reason we are conceding goals is just wrong. Murdocca is quality? Jesus. That's why we are winless, have the worst GD in the league and have not won an away match in two years. FFS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 And to top it all off, I don't believe individually our attackers are bad players. I'm probably beating my one and only drum, but our system is all wrong. When will we get the change we need? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 And to top it all off, I don't believe individually our attackers are bad players. I'm probably beating my one and only drum, but our system is all wrong. When will we get the change we need? we won't, unless the board do something incredible and sack Aloisi and replace him with someone competent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 ^Which my wife said again Saturday night to my call to change coach, "They won't sack him. There is something strange going on, but they are all in it together". I don't know what she knows, and either does she, but I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofhearts Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 I would love to know why everyone is backing Murdocca. The guy is everything that is wrong with Heart. Mediocrity. We've just seen it for so long that when a 29 year old hack with an engine comes to our team, we think he is a god send.There is a reason that Roar got rid of him. When a team that wins fucking football matches releases a player, we shouldn't go near him. The best way to defend is to attack yes, but Mifsud pressures well and Williams does too. The others aren't too good I know. But to say that our attack is the reason we are conceding goals is just wrong. Murdocca is quality? Jesus. That's why we are winless, have the worst GD in the league and have not won an away match in two years. FFS. You have quite clearly not read any answers to your original question about Murdocca. Your point is wrong for a couple of reasons: 1) Murdocca was signed to be part of a bigger system. We did not pin all of our hopes on Murdocca anchoring our midfield. The poor bastard has been playing with basically fuck all, some Italian guy who can't play for shit and another bloke out of position. Now imagine he was playing with kewell/Orlando. We would be singing his praises, and going on about how he is a good complimentary piece to them. Instead this bloke constantly goes against the opposition's midfield by himself, even though he is out-matched physically, he still works his ass off and still wins some balls. 2) He wasn't 'let go' by Brisbane. From what i understand, he wanted to come back to Melbourne to be closer with his family. I also understand that Brisbane were upset to lose him. Why would they get rid of a bloke which has helped them win two championships? 3)The attack IS the reason we concede so many goals, for most games we are having to defend for 70 odd minutes. You can only hold back the tide for so long, we always end up conceding because every time we get the ball out of a dangerous position, it comes right back in. Now if we were able to put some pressure on the opposition defence, for an extended period of time, maybe we wouldn't concede so many goals. And FWIW, if it wasn't for Kisnorbo and Weilart, we would've conceded a shit tonne more goals. If they were on any other team, they would be hailed as the best back pairing in the league. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marteaux Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 I would love to know why everyone is backing Murdocca. The guy is everything that is wrong with Heart. Mediocrity. We've just seen it for so long that when a 29 year old hack with an engine comes to our team, we think he is a god send.There is a reason that Roar got rid of him. When a team that wins fucking football matches releases a player, we shouldn't go near him. The best way to defend is to attack yes, but Mifsud pressures well and Williams does too. The others aren't too good I know. But to say that our attack is the reason we are conceding goals is just wrong. Murdocca is quality? Jesus. That's why we are winless, have the worst GD in the league and have not won an away match in two years. FFS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEARTinator Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Just seen the Foxsports guys Rudes and Simo take a close look at how we let Mooy run loose in the middle. Like I kinda said earlier, we know that Mooy likes to drift around the middle and find space to lay balls off or take a ping himself. For his first goal he found space while Migliorini failed to stay close to him and in the second half he had pings at goals flowing from a lack of marking. This was either a fundamental lack of concentration on our players behalf or our game plan did not pay enough attention to this. Maybe a bit of both but I do find Migliorini drifts around a bit in a kind ineffective way sometimes. The Behich v Hersi battle was one of the highlights for me. Azizou did really well and held the mongrel Hersi who was eventually subbed off. Behich had one of his best games for us this season. More like that from others and better tactics and we'd be higher up the ladder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrison Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 John C Reilly, of course we weren't pinning our hopes on him. Engelaar and Kewell would've changed our entire team and we could've put a one-legged dwarf as DM and it wouldn't have changed anything. But one was out before the season began and the other hasn't played a full match. Aloisi brought in Mig as a replacement player. Fair enough that he isn't anywhere near as good as Engelaar, but it is plain for all to see that the pairing of Mig and Murdocca is not working. Regardless of offensive pressure, which isn't fantastic I'll admit, one would expect the midfielders to break up the play more than they do and keep the team's structure. Mig misses tackles and saunters around aimlessly for most of the match. Perhaps I've been too harsh on Murdocca, but to say that he is quality is misguided and that he is one of our best literally means fuck all this season. He runs hard and makes some good tackles and passes. His shots are hopeless, but that doesn't matter much in a DM. But he has played (I think) every minute this season. At some point, he must take some responsibility for our performances. He certainly isn't blameless. The bloke partnered with an actual DM in Partaalu/McKay whilst at Roar. In 2010/11 and 2011/12 he played in most of the matches. Not every match and nowhere near as many minutes as Partaalu. I think it is obvious that he needs to partner with a good DM because with Mig they are not good enough. The results reflect that. At Roar, he had a lot of help from a quality midfield that included Partaalu, McKay and Nichols. Here, he has Mig. Not great, but obviously something needs to change if we're to win matches. Playing Gerhardt as an enforcer DM would make a big difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malloy Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 John C Reilly, of course we weren't pinning our hopes on him. Engelaar and Kewell would've changed our entire team and we could've put a one-legged dwarf as DM and it wouldn't have changed anything. But one was out before the season began and the other hasn't played a full match. Aloisi brought in Mig as a replacement player. Fair enough that he isn't anywhere near as good as Engelaar, but it is plain for all to see that the pairing of Mig and Murdocca is not working. Regardless of offensive pressure, which isn't fantastic I'll admit, one would expect the midfielders to break up the play more than they do and keep the team's structure. Mig misses tackles and saunters around aimlessly for most of the match. Perhaps I've been too harsh on Murdocca, but to say that he is quality is misguided and that he is one of our best literally means fuck all this season. He runs hard and makes some good tackles and passes. His shots are hopeless, but that doesn't matter much in a DM. But he has played (I think) every minute this season. At some point, he must take some responsibility for our performances. He certainly isn't blameless. The bloke partnered with an actual DM in Partaalu/McKay whilst at Roar. In 2010/11 and 2011/12 he played in most of the matches. Not every match and nowhere near as many minutes as Partaalu. I think it is obvious that he needs to partner with a good DM because with Mig they are not good enough. The results reflect that. At Roar, he had a lot of help from a quality midfield that included Partaalu, McKay and Nichols. Here, he has Mig. Not great, but obviously something needs to change if we're to win matches. Playing Gerhardt as an enforcer DM would make a big difference. Murdocca's role in the team (or rather what it would be under a proper coach) is not to be a defensive midfielder, but to be the player who keeps the ball moving through midfield. To present to the defence so that we can play a passing game. His role is to either play it out to advancing full backs or to the attacking midfielder. This type of player needs to be played alongside a hard tackling defensive midfielder and a play maker. Murdocca is paired with Mig who is practically a shitter version of Mass and Williams who knows fuck all about a possession passing game. Now the reason we concede so much is because when the front 4 look to attack they all just get the ball and move forward. There is never a pass back at the correct time to allow the defence and midfield to move up and join the attack and apply pressure. Instead we just go 1 on 3 with the rest of the team still in defensive half which just invites more pressure, which just leads to conceding more goals 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Harrison, the reason our midfield is poor is the same reason our defence is poor and our attack is poor. If Redders required tactical input from our main coaching staff you would see a decline in his form as well. Mass is doing better than Matt Thompson at fitting into JA's structure but no, he is not getting the best results for his efforts - just like everyone else connected with the club. Don't worry though, a lot of our squad will show what they can do once we get another senior coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malloy Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Harrison, the reason our midfield is poor is the same reason our defence is poor and our attack is poor. If Redders required tactical input from our main coaching staff you would see a decline in his form as well. Mass is doing better than Matt Thompson at fitting into JA's structure but no, he is not getting the best results for his efforts - just like everyone else connected with the club. Don't worry though, a lot of our squad will show what they can do once we get another senior coach. Redders distribution serms to have gotten much shitter since last season, so I assume he has had some tactical input from JA and Co. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattyh001 Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) okay time for me to chip in about Murdocca (and the rest of the midfield as a side note given what i'm about to say). our defenders love to kick the shit outta the ball. no ifs no buts they love to thump. it comes down to what Aloisi wants. as a midfielder, Murdocca gets overlooked as an out let 9 times out of 10 for this exact reason. peeps hating Murdocca, you need to thoroughly consider that and what it does to transition. good. you've had the time. majority of long balls are often won by opponents (ie why a useless mutt Toper Stanley is still in the A League FFS; the dog doesnt get a jersey each week for the way he plays the ball or for his speed) so now think some more. excellent. our two holding midfielders get killed on transition. not because they are shit but because long balls force them to constantly reset. and, if your opponents are any good (being in the A League they probably are), then whenever you give up the ball (which tends to happen more often than not with long balls) then your opponents will figure out a way through. they will work shit out. and if Murdocca and Miglirini are always transitioning then they doing the right thing by running all over the shop to fucking transition. its not rocket science. they will get drawn out / make a mistake in trying to constantly run. its like the haters think that all opposing players are dumb shits or something as if opposing players will never work out what heart are doing. a few people have nailed it in that comes down to the way the Heart play systemically, not the actual players in isolation. Murdocca has been for me in our top couple of performers this season by far. people just have to take his performances in context of what is actually expected. Edited December 9, 2013 by mattyh001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTD/MLBHRT/ESSNDON Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Murdocca can run up and down for 90min But if you guys honestly think he can make a creative pass, then I'm sorry you guys have lost the plot. Great player in the sence he has a big engine and puts the pressure on well, but he couldn't make more than 2 farward passes in a row. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTD/MLBHRT/ESSNDON Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 And Matty you said the word transition! If Heart had transition in its team from its midfield, we wouldn't be dead last... That's why we do long balls, because transition doesn't existed in heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD. Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) Murdocca can run up and down for 90min But if you guys honestly think he can make a creative pass, then I'm sorry you guys have lost the plot. Great player in the sence he has a big engine and puts the pressure on well, but he couldn't make more than 2 farward passes in a row.2:15, 2:33 and 3:50 just to show you a few.. Pretty creative actually. Your argument is invalid. Shutup and go to sleep.http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hHnPTeQgWaw Edited December 9, 2013 by Demon_Heart 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTD/MLBHRT/ESSNDON Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Anyone can pass a ball into space, I'm talking one two in tight spaces. If he was a creative player he'd still be in the best creative team, not come to the shitest! My point is fact, look at the ladder and his assists! Both last! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTD/MLBHRT/ESSNDON Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 And the one at 3.50 is a long ball from defence lol are you still sleeping bud? Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTD/MLBHRT/ESSNDON Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Could Murdocca get a run in Victorys middfield??? Finkler who would start over any of our middfielders can't even get a start at victory. If you want to learn about football, put your ego aside for a weekend and watch victory vs Perth Friday night and then MSG me after the game and tell me if Murdocca is creative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malloy Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Could Murdocca get a run in Victorys middfield??? Finkler who would start over any of our middfielders can't even get a start at victory. If you want to learn about football, put your ego aside for a weekend and watch victory vs Perth Friday night and then MSG me after the game and tell me if Murdocca is creative. Have you ever heard of Makelele? He was a player who never made forward passes and wasn't creative. Does that make him shit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTD/MLBHRT/ESSNDON Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 I never once said he was shit, I said great player who runs for 90min and puts pressure on well... BUT is not creative, 1 assist in 9 games in our midfield? His not creative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD. Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Murdocca has created many chances (very good ones) But our forwards are simply not applying the finishing touch. Its our forwards that have been missing horribly. Dont bag out one of our best performers based on stats. The only stat that matters is the goals for and against in the match. Quite sad if you think he is shit based on our forwards finishing, or should i say lack of finishing . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Murdocca can run up and down for 90min But if you guys honestly think he can make a creative pass, then I'm sorry you guys have lost the plot. Great player in the sence he has a big engine and puts the pressure on well, but he couldn't make more than 2 farward passes in a row. You're right, he makes few creative passes as this requires creative runs off the ball from other players. If he picks the ball up in midfield there are usually few players ahead of him and so most passing options are sideways or backwards. He made creative passes at Roar regularly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattyh001 Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) And Matty you said the word transition! If Heart had transition in its team from its midfield, we wouldn't be dead last... That's why we do long balls, because transition doesn't existed in heart.And if Heart played less long balls and actually tried through the midfield then our transition would be much more evident and much more accommodating for guys like Murdocca. So your argument is low correlation with fact / very ambiguous since it goes both ways. The problem for your side of the argument is what defenders like Kisnorbo and Wielaert look for in terms of passing options. When was the last time you saw them force the issue by calling, directing, etc, midfielders short? The truth of the matter is that our defenders look to release the ball Long from the get go. They barely even adjust for short passes when the Long ball isn't on. They just thump it. You really need to watch the games more closely. Edited December 9, 2013 by mattyh001 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTD/MLBHRT/ESSNDON Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Again I don't think his shit at all... I hope he assists 15 goals this season! I like the guy, his a great defensive mid. But I think your getting creative mixed up with something els. Gerald Sibon is creative and has been the most creative player to put on the Heart shirt, I'm sorry but playing a through ball onto a forward who makes a run doesn't make you a creative player. Creative is a player who can make something out of nothing and make a pass when most players would turn back and play a back words pass. Eg G. Finkler, Broich, HK... That's like saying Mikel and Hazard are both creative players... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTD/MLBHRT/ESSNDON Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Matty if we had Troisi, Finkler and Harry K as our middfield 3 would Heart still play long balls from defence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herman Cain Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 We probably would because they would be poorly coached and have no system to adhere to. Murdocca passes well, is energetic off the ball and always presenting. That may not fit your definition of creative (as he isn't an AM), but he is certainly very capable of playing a passing, possession based game. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD. Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) There are so many factors that go into how a player plays, a coaches game plan and style plays a massive part in how or what a player does as well, and i think MUTD/MLBHRT/ESSNDON is ignoring that. Edited December 9, 2013 by Demon_Heart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTD/MLBHRT/ESSNDON Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Leigh Broxham is capable of playing a passing possession based game, as he is doing at this minute. Does that make him creative? Comn guys you for real? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattyh001 Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) Matty if we had Troisi, Finkler and Harry K as our middfield 3 would Heart still play long balls from defence?(1) who is responsible for directing the system / way of the play the team uses; the coach or the players? Ultimately the coach gets final say through dropping players who don't do as he says. (2) And who would do the defensive work? Given the use of Williams, Dugandzic and Ramsey as attacking midfielders (lets face the facts; our wide players sit too deep defensively be considered forwards) you could only really argue your in terms of replacing those other players, not Murdocca. If then transition improved then in turn it means transition issues relate to other players rather than Murdocca. Edited December 9, 2013 by mattyh001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTD/MLBHRT/ESSNDON Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 You can't be coached into being creative, your born with it. Eg. Australia's nation team and Spain's! Ppl wonder why England can't win a major trophie, it's because they have great one dimensional players and no great creative players. Brazil, Spain... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadete Posted December 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Hey GUYS ANYONE here like Massimo Murdocca. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD. Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexDaGroza Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Again I don't think his shit at all... I hope he assists 15 goals this season! I like the guy, his a great defensive mid. But I think your getting creative mixed up with something els. Gerald Sibon is creative and has been the most creative player to put on the Heart shirt, I'm sorry but playing a through ball onto a forward who makes a run doesn't make you a creative player. Creative is a player who can make something out of nothing and make a pass when most players would turn back and play a back words pass. Eg G. Finkler, Broich, HK... That's like saying Mikel and Hazard are both creative players... Waiiittttttt.....so your saying Hazard isnt a creative player? Murdocca creates chances for us on a regular basis. By definition that is creative. Not his fault our forwards are unable to convert. Some of the stuff you write makes absolutely no sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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