Orlando Engelaar

[carlings]

Just wanted to confirm with everyone that BFD will be the first picked for the A League All Stars First XI ?

[Tbitm]

Would be amazing to get him under the cap, keep Kewell on min wage and get Mooy. But surely Williams would have to make way for this to happen.

 

I think we can get a good marquee striker to make up for him though. Aussie or international.

[Dylan]

I doubt kewell will be playing anywhere next season

[marteaux]

Would happily sacrifice Williams in order to secure Orlando under the cap and get a new striker who is capable of playing at the same level of Williams on a good day, only every week.

[xXJawsaXx]

I agree with the comments above. Even if it requires letting Williams go I would rather we keep Engelaar and get a good striker.
With that being said though, I wouldn't mind having Engelaar as a marquee next year if we cannot fit him under the cap.

[HeartFc]

Theres 0% Orlando will be next years marquee. Man City will be thinking much bigger.

Hope we can fit him under the cap.

[Nate]

Marquees are the one major way in which Manchester City can exert their financial influence on the field in a salary-capped competition so I'd be surprised if we retained Orlando as our international marquee. 

I absolutely love the bloke to bits though so as others have said, hopefully we can squeeze him under the cap but yeah, at 35 I'm sure the owners will probably be looking for a younger, flashier and perhaps more marketable marquee player than the BFD but we shall see.

[marteaux]

If we can't fit him under the cap - then he should be our marquee.

[DukeVader]

Hows the banter from the bloke on Iain Ramsays birthday dinner instagram... Anyone see his son run onto the field after the game? Father-son rule is in the A-league yeah?

[xXJawsaXx]

That was beautiful.

[theresonlyonebzamora]

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Hows the banter from the bloke on Iain Ramsays birthday dinner instagram... Anyone see his son run onto the field after the game? Father-son rule is in the A-league yeah?

What a dude.

[mulhollanddrive]

Looks like players are enjoying themselves. 

 

Engelaar and Mooy in midfield next season, imagine a world class attacker marquee to finish their passing.

[japiedog]

Looks like players are enjoying themselves. 

 

Engelaar and Mooy in midfield next season, imagine a world class attacker marquee to finish their passing.

 

we can dream!

and you know what , the dream is becoming reality

[Embee]

If Man City were to loan us one or two young players and subsidize their wages then we'd likely be able to fit Orlando under the cap if that's what needs to be done.

Edited March 3, 2014 by King Malta

[Melbourne]

Engelaar has been great for us so far and as JvS has stated he will only get better with more games under his belt. He has great touch and vision and even directs players on the ground. Also love the little jig he does when he scores.

[carlings]

he is a BO$$

[Dylan]

If mifsud is on 300k we can afford Orlando on 500k under the cap

[HeartinHobart]

I agree that there is little chance of Orlando being our marquee next season.

City have been quoted as saying they want a marquee that can be here for a number of years and not to just support a players retirement fund.

Personally I feel it'll be someone in there late 20's that many of us will need to google when the announcement is made.

The though of Engelaar under our salary cap, doubtful but we can hope.

[Alexxandro]

Imagine if we don't retain him and he plays for another A-League team. That would hurt. 

[perthheart]

It is the signing of players like Hoffman on minimum wage that gives way to the possibility of players like Engelaar signing under the cap. Also highlights why producing quality young players is so important. These kids like Garruccio, Mauk ect would all be on minimum wage. The more promising youngsters you sign it follows that you would have more space in the cap for quality players at the other end of the spectrum. Engelaar must be planning on playing a few seasons more. Surely, you don't spend time recovering from a broken leg at his age just to make it back for 10 games at the end of the season. The quality he has shown I don't think he is just here for a final pay check either.

[cadete]

It is the signing of players like Hoffman on minimum wage that gives way to the possibility of players like Engelaar signing under the cap. Also highlights why producing quality young players is so important. These kids like Garruccio, Mauk ect would all be on minimum wage. The more promising youngsters you sign it follows that you would have more space in the cap for quality players at the other end of the spectrum. Engelaar must be planning on playing a few seasons more. Surely, you don't spend time recovering from a broken leg at his age just to make it back for 10 games at the end of the season. The quality he has shown I don't think he is just here for a final pay check either.

Lets hope we dont have another Sibon situation.

[Jestr]

Imagine if we don't retain him and he plays for another A-League team. That would hurt.

Don't like it!!!

[perthheart]

 

It is the signing of players like Hoffman on minimum wage that gives way to the possibility of players like Engelaar signing under the cap. Also highlights why producing quality young players is so important. These kids like Garruccio, Mauk ect would all be on minimum wage. The more promising youngsters you sign it follows that you would have more space in the cap for quality players at the other end of the spectrum. Engelaar must be planning on playing a few seasons more. Surely, you don't spend time recovering from a broken leg at his age just to make it back for 10 games at the end of the season. The quality he has shown I don't think he is just here for a final pay check either.

Lets hope we dont have another Sibon situation.

 

Lets hope not. Is the major question mark I have over JVS is recruitment. The fact Sibon was released and replaced with Maycon is my biggest gripe I have over JVS' original era. It's hard to know how much of that was down to the board drawing the purse strings closed or not though. Players such as Kisnorbo I don't know whether JVS would have signed either. He definitely possesses that very Dutch trait of seeing his CB's as being there to start attacks as opposed to their primary role of defending the goal.

 

In fairness though I can't see JVS wanting to let OE go as he is pretty much exactly the kind of technical player that you need in his midfield role to make JVS' system work.

[kingofhearts]

Orlando Engelaar is the best player we've ever had in our short history.

 

To let him go would be madness

[belaguttman]

Orlando Engelaar is the best player we've ever had in our short history.

 

To let him go would be madness

Yes I agree but what makes him our best player is the system that he is playing in. He's fortunate enough to have timed his recovery perfectly to avoid the JA era as he would have looked much less impressive in JA's system where he would have had less latitude for movement and less latitude to move forward.

[japiedog]

 

Orlando Engelaar is the best player we've ever had in our short history.

 

To let him go would be madness

Yes I agree but what makes him our best player is the system that he is playing in. He's fortunate enough to have timed his recovery perfectly to avoid the JA era as he would have looked much less impressive in JA's system where he would have had less latitude for movement and less latitude to move forward.

 

yes and the ball bypassing him most of the time!

Even with his height, he wouldn't have reached the ball

Edited March 5, 2014 by japiedog

[jw1739]

Orlando Engelaar is the best player we've ever had in our short history.

 

To let him go would be madness

Still not sure about him. The Newcastle match found him out somewhat. And he's very short of leg speed.

[Caddy]

 

Orlando Engelaar is the best player we've ever had in our short history.

 

To let him go would be madness

Still not sure about him. The Newcastle match found him out somewhat. And he's very short of leg speed.

 

He arrived on the day of the match due to personal reasons, I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt that's it's just one bad game.

[HeartFc]

Sack Engelaar.

[kingofhearts]

 

Orlando Engelaar is the best player we've ever had in our short history.

 

To let him go would be madness

Still not sure about him. The Newcastle match found him out somewhat. And he's very short of leg speed.

 

Even Michael Jordan had bad days  

 

He'll be out for retribution this week, you watch

[Tony999]

 

 

Orlando Engelaar is the best player we've ever had in our short history.

 

To let him go would be madness

Still not sure about him. The Newcastle match found him out somewhat. And he's very short of leg speed.

 

He arrived on the day of the match due to personal reasons, I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt that's it's just one bad game.

 

 

Anyone actually know what were those personal reasons despite it being personal? Guess I'm just being nosey...

[jw1739]

 

 

 

Orlando Engelaar is the best player we've ever had in our short history.

 

To let him go would be madness

Still not sure about him. The Newcastle match found him out somewhat. And he's very short of leg speed.

 

He arrived on the day of the match due to personal reasons, I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt that's it's just one bad game.

 

 

Anyone actually know what were those personal reasons despite it being personal? Guess I'm just being nosey...

 

I don't think we need to know. But I'd say it was a mistake by JvS to play him. Considering our atrocious away record we don't need our players distracted from the job in front of them.

[Kiro Kompiro]

 

Orlando Engelaar is the best player we've ever had in our short history.

 

To let him go would be madness

Still not sure about him. The Newcastle match found him out somewhat. And he's very short of leg speed.

 

 

 

I agree.  And he won't be any faster next season.  He will be man-marked from now on, and there are plenty of Zadkoshit types running around to do the job.  

 

Would love Endo straight after the World Cup.

[dRoy]

We wouldn't be talking about his poor Newcastle game if Ramsey headed in that first cross of the game 30 seconds in. My guess OE would have relaxed a bit after that and would have smashed in a hat trick.

[heart_fan10]

We wouldn't be talking about his poor Newcastle game if Ramsey headed in that first cross of the game 30 seconds in. My guess OE would have relaxed a bit after that and would have smashed in a hat trick.

Or if dugandzic had finished that one in the second half that engelaar put on a plate for him

[mulhollanddrive]

If Engelaar is on 400k, you can fit him in the cap.

 

Let's say it means an extra youth player at 40k:

 

Marquee - Engelaar - Youth Player,  or:

 

Engelaar and 2 x 220k players (Ramsay, Murdocca type)

[Embee]

If Engelaar is on 400k, you can fit him in the cap.

 

Let's say it means an extra youth player at 40k:

 

Marquee - Engelaar - Youth Player,  or:

 

Engelaar and 2 x 220k players (Ramsay, Murdocca type)

 

Or a loanee from Man City.

[Murfy1]

I'm not sure this is very widely known, but Engelaar was a striker for much of the early part of his career. He's a good example of how flexible some footballers can be, and how it does sometimes really pay to move footballer around into different positions.

 

It seems he was a striker when he was a youth player at Feyenoord, whom he played for for several years:

 

“[Engelaar:] I was taught to play like that when I played striker (at Feyenoord) and later as offensive midfielder. It’s part of my DNA. People expected me to do something creative, so the first look will always be deep, to the most forward player. In a way, it’s also the safest thing to do. Passing wide can mean a stinging counter when the ball is taken over. When my deep passes don’t connect, at least the ball is at their defensive third.”

 

When he began his senior career at NAC Breda (where he played between 2000 and 2004) it seems he was played as a striker (as noted here). At NAC Breda Engelaar scored 22 goals over 94 games, which is just a shade under 1 goal every 4 appearances. Then Engelaar went to Genk (between 2004 and 2006), where it seem he played as a second striker/playmaker (source) and a striker (source). He scored 1 goal every 5 games at Genk (12 goals over 59 appearances).

 

It seems that only around 2006, when Engelaar was lured to Twente, did he start to constantly play in midfield under coach Fred Rutten:

 

It proved to be the turning point. Twente coach Fred Rutten persuaded Engelaar to play in midfield where he was made captain and led the team to Champions League qualification.

 

"Fred Rutten has given me the chance to develop myself," Engelaar told De Telegraaf newspaper.

 

"He picked me up when I had a less productive period at Racing Genk. He told me that I could become a good footballer in the Netherlands in a position behind the striker."

 

(http://www.dw.de/france-must-conquer-dutch-man-mountain-in-bid-for-qualification/a-3405351)

 

And ultimately at Twente "Rutten seduced him into playing in defensive midfield with talk of the Oranje jersey. And his promises weren't false", with Engelaar playing for the Netherlands as a defensive midfielder in the 2008 Euros (where JVS was the assistant Netherlands coach), earning widespread acclaim (source). And the rest is history.

 

Now at Heart JVS seems to be employing Engelaar in an attacking midfield role, using Murdocca and Germano to handle most of the defensive midfield work. I think this has worked a treat, as it allows Engelaar to pretty much have maximum influence on the Heart attack, with the 5-0 win against Wellington pretty much being the ideal game Engelaar can play in this role. Also, Engelaar can occasionally get into the box and help with goal-scoring (as noted above, something he's capable to do, given the early part of his career). 

I'm sure we'll see a good amount more attacking football from Engelaar in the remaining games, and it would be surprising if he didn't help some more with the goal-scoring.

Edited March 14, 2014 by Murfy1

[Shahanga]

Hat off to you Murf for your research on that piece.  Quality reporting.

[Murfy1]

I just had a quick look on the internet and enough information was there.

 

I'm surprised Australian journalists haven't really mentioned the early part of Engelaar's career, especially after him scoring goal after goal in game after game. This information not getting out there is just another reminder that Australian football journalism has a lot of room for improvement, IMO.