Tesla Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 This will be interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSK_47 Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 (edited) This will be interesting Its interesting that a lot of our "deadwood" didnt have too much trouble finding new clubs. Not that I am predicting any of them will go on to do amazing things, but will be interested to see if the teams they have signed for start playing like total spastics and the blame is entirely put on our ex-players Edited August 16, 2015 by KSK_47 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 Its interesting that a lot of our "deadwood" didnt have too much trouble finding new clubs. Not that I am predicting any of them will go on to do amazing things, but will be interested to see if the teams they have signed for start playing like total spastics and the blame is entirely put on our ex-playersI'd guess that anyone joining an A-League club after being cut from another would have to take a significant cut in wages though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illeatyourheart Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 Its interesting that a lot of our "deadwood" didnt have too much trouble finding new clubs. Not that I am predicting any of them will go on to do amazing things, but will be interested to see if the teams they have signed for start playing like total spastics and the blame is entirely put on our ex-playersRamsay didn't find it so easy... He's playing in Iran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 Ramsay didn't find it so easy... He's playing in Iran.Probably a better league than the A-League. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSK_47 Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 Ramsay didn't find it so easy... He's playing in Iran.Was picked up fairly quickly and doing reasonably well from what i have read too. I dont know anything about the leauge he is playing in but according to wiki its ranked the 3rd strongest in Asia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSK_47 Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 I'd guess that anyone joining an A-League club after being cut from another would have to take a significant cut in wages though.i cant imagine most of the players we have let go were on much more than minimum wage if above it at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 (edited) Was picked up fairly quickly and doing reasonably well from what i have read too. I dont know anything about the leauge he is playing in but according to wiki its ranked the 3rd strongest in Asia.TBH it's pretty hard to know but some of the foreigners seem pretty decent and more of their national team players play domestically. Probably not a huge difference in quality either way.I actually think Ramsay could have got an A-League contract, but when he decided to play for the Philippines there wasn't much reason to play in the A-League when he can make more in random Asian leagues. Edited August 16, 2015 by Tesla 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 (edited) i cant imagine most of the players we have let go were on much more than minimum wage if above it at allThe main one that would be different to that is Mate. We basically got Mate because we offered more than the tards. No way he was on low wages. Adelaide is a second chance for the guy. better have a red hot crack this time. Edited August 16, 2015 by Shahanga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 The main one that would be different to that is Mate. We basically got Mate because we offered more than the tards. No way he was on low wages. Adelaide is a second chance for the guy. better have a red hot crack this time.I also doubt that Redmayne and Hoffman would have been close to the minimum. Hoff especially , as he was about to enter his sixth season with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malloy Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 The main one that would be different to that is Mate. We basically got Mate because we offered more than the tards. No way he was on low wages. Adelaide is a second chance for the guy. better have a red hot crack this time. Incorrect. Mate didn't come to us because of money. There was a fall out with Merrick, struggling to remember what exactly it was over. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mus-28 Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 can't see Mate getting much of a run behind Goodwin, Cirio, Sanchez and Kamau for the 2 wing spots. NPLV awaits next season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofhearts Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 Gl with him Adelaide. You'll need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadete Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 Incorrect. Mate didn't come to us because of money. There was a fall out with Merrick, struggling to remember what exactly it was over. It was because he felt playing 4-4-2 was hurting his chances of European Football believe it not... he wanted to be a high winger under the JVS system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 Genuinely hope he does well at Adelaide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 (edited) Incorrect. Mate didn't come to us because of money. There was a fall out with Merrick, struggling to remember what exactly it was over. He still would have been on a pretty high salary given he was one of the best young players in the league at the time.Redders would have also been on decent money, not as much as Mate, but he was rated as the best young keeper in the country before coming here.I also think hoffman would have been on more than what most people expect. Edited August 16, 2015 by Tesla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malloy Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 It was because he felt playing 4-4-2 was hurting his chances of European Football believe it not... he wanted to be a high winger under the JVS system.That was part of it. I think the critical thing was a family members wedding or birthday and mate asked to attend it instead of playing in youth team or something along those lines and Merrick refused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSK_47 Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 (edited) Surely the reason hoff was here for so long is because he was getting paid jack shit. I know we were poorly run but if we so poorly run that hoff was being paid above minimum wage i am surprised we made it past season 1.Anyway the original point i was trying to make is that its interesting that these players are getting contracts elsewhere despite so many people saying that they bring absolutely nothing of value. When in actual fact the reality of this leauge is that you have to have players like that in squads. I cant see any of these guys becoming superstars but it will be interesting to see if they are better utilized elsewhere or they end up being a black hole on the pitch for another club. Edited August 16, 2015 by KSK_47 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 Mate was a stating XI player at Heart/City. He won't be a starting first choice XI at AU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 That was part of it. I think the critical thing was a family members wedding or birthday and mate asked to attend it instead of playing in youth team or something along those lines and Merrick refused.Brother's wedding IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSK_47 Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 Mate was a stating XI player at Heart/City. He won't be a starting first choice XI at AUhasnt been a regular starter for some time now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 Surely the reason hoff was here for so long is because he was getting paid jack shit. I know we were poorly run but if we so poorly run that hoff was being paid above minimum wage i am surprised we made it past season 1.Anyway the original point i was trying to make is that its interesting that these players are getting contracts elsewhere despite so many people saying that they bring absolutely nothing of value. When in actual fact the reality of this leauge is that you have to have players like that in squads. I cant see any of these guys becoming superstars but it will be interesting to see if they are better utilized elsewhere or they end up being a black hole on the pitch for another club.I don't think he would have been on much more than minimum but I can't see him being on minimum. Probably like 70-80k. Years of A-League experience and he did always get a fair bit of game time for us, plus he had no trouble getting another A-League contract so not like we were his only option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 Surely the reason hoff was here for so long is because he was getting paid jack shit. I know we were poorly run but if we so poorly run that hoff was being paid above minimum wage i am surprised we made it past season 1.Anyway the original point i was trying to make is that its interesting that these players are getting contracts elsewhere despite so many people saying that they bring absolutely nothing of value. When in actual fact the reality of this leauge is that you have to have players like that in squads. I cant see any of these guys becoming superstars but it will be interesting to see if they are better utilized elsewhere or they end up being a black hole on the pitch for another club.quite right KSK. Has been said many times before, but to fit the salary cap all clubs have journeymen on their books. The tricks to success are probably 2 fold. Firstly don't over pay & secondly get the most out of your players. Takes good operators to do both. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadete Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 (edited) quite right KSK. Has been said many times before, but to fit the salary cap all clubs have journeymen on their books. The tricks to success are probably 2 fold. Firstly don't over pay & secondly get the most out of your players. Takes good operators to do both.Yeah - Hoff would def have been on a minimum just so he could be a Professional Footballer.I also think the big difference between Mate and Hoff is that Mate actually showed for a significant period of time when at Heart that at his best his def up to the grade of the A-League. His progress did obviously go very backwards after that season but he was very effective goal scoring winger for two thirds of his first Heart Season.Personally I think that this form due to confidence, attitude and that bad injury is probably gone for good and I agree he needed to be delisted but I could see why other clubs would consider him as a list filler. Edited August 16, 2015 by cadete 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Mate's problem in this league is that he's always been pushed off the ball too easily. I can't see that changing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadete Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Mate's problem in this league is that he's always been pushed off the ball too easily. I can't see that changing.I agree there... I actually think opposition coaches probably would have focused on this as well when instructing their players how to combat him when he was a major scoring threat earlier on at Heart.Also he would backwards under JA when he was asked to play as more traditional Winger rather than when his focus was cutting in to score goals like he did in Season Two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 quite right KSK. Has been said many times before, but to fit the salary cap all clubs have journeymen on their books. The tricks to success are probably 2 fold. Firstly don't over pay & secondly get the most out of your players. Takes good operators to do both.Agreed. Are you suggesting that Heart/City failed on both these counts? We're getting a little off topic, but I'd be interested to know how people see our squad for 2015/16 compared with, say, the two clubs that IMO will be the pacesetters again this season - Victory and Sydney. Who do we identify as the "list-fillers" in our list so far, and in the lists for the other two? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Agreed. Are you suggesting that Heart/City failed on both these counts? We're getting a little off topic, but I'd be interested to know how people see our squad for 2015/16 compared with, say, the two clubs that IMO will be the pacesetters again this season - Victory and Sydney. Who do we identify as the "list-fillers" in our list so far, and in the lists for the other two?imoMelbourne CityA-GradersFranjicPaartaluMooyNovilloB-GradersHughesChapmanGameiroKorenZulloGermanoWilliamsVelaphiKisnorboMellingC-GradersBrownDekkerRetreGaruccioMaukClisbyMarinoKuzmanovski Melbourne VictoryA-GradersVukovicFinklerBerishaThompsonBen KhalfallahDelpierreValeriB-GradersGeriaGallowayAnsellGeorgievskiBroxhamBarabarousesC-GradersPainMahaziMurnaneThomas Sydney FCA-GradersDimitrijevicSmeltzHoloskoBrosqueNinkovicB-GradersRyallGersbachHooleNaumoffSimonFatyJanjetovicAbbasGrantTavaresC-GradersAndersonJurmanStambolzievBouzanisO'NeillWoodcockBlackwoodCalver 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Paartalu an A-Grader but not Germano, Zullo, or Gameiro. Interesting. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rass Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Paartalu an A-Grader? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Really depends what the definition of A-Grader is, could see Paartalu being included if the bar isn't too high, but then those others I mention should also be there.Also Thompson and Smeltz are both not A-Graders any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rass Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Really depends what the definition of A-Grader is, could see Paartalu being included if the bar isn't too high, but then those others I mention should also be there.Also Thompson and Smeltz are both not A-Graders any more.Thompson's an A-Grader... an A Grade arsehole. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadete Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Really depends what the definition of A-Grader is, could see Paartalu being included if the bar isn't too high, but then those others I mention should also be there.Also Thompson and Smeltz are both not A-Graders any more.Fair go for him making a list to be nitpicked at... but I have to agree it doesn't make sense how two players who are often used as Bench Strikers (albeit good ones) are still A-Graders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Smeltz and Thompson are still A-Grade against us lolTo be honest I had Paartalu as a B-Grader to begin with but then bumped him up to an A when I realised I had only put 3 players... perhaps we all have been overrating our list after all Only distinguishing players between A, B and C was kind of hard anyway since players all play different roles in the squad (e.g. Smeltz and Thompson coming off the bench, but being really good at it compared to a James Brown who comes off the bench because we have no one else) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samardzija Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) Novillo still hasn't proved he is an a grader yet, I reckon only franjic and mooy are a graders in our squad.do think that Sydney and victory have much better squads than us, and as it pains me to say it but better coaches too. Edited August 17, 2015 by samardzija Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 So it boils down to what I instinctively thought. By our own estimation and despite what everyone so far has thought is overall better recruiting than in the past, our ratio of squad-fillers (C) to quality players (A) is too high. Which in practice means, as we have seen repeatedly, that the top clubs have quality sitting on their benches who can turn a game around in the last 20-30 minutes whereas our substitutions inevitably weaken the team on the field.Incidentally, Nate, you left Tuna off our list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSK_47 Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 So it boils down to what I instinctively thought. By our own estimation and despite what everyone so far has thought is overall better recruiting than in the past, our ratio of squad-fillers (C) to quality players (A) is too high. Which in practice means, as we have seen repeatedly, that the top clubs have quality sitting on their benches who can turn a game around in the last 20-30 minutes whereas our substitutions inevitably weaken the team on the field.Incidentally, Nate, you left Tuna off our list.Or it could mean the top clubs know how to effectively use "b and c grade" players so it just appears they have a significantly higher number of "quality" bench players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Agreed. Are you suggesting that Heart/City failed on both these counts? We're getting a little off topic, but I'd be interested to know how people see our squad for 2015/16 compared with, say, the two clubs that IMO will be the pacesetters again this season - Victory and Sydney. Who do we identify as the "list-fillers" in our list so far, and in the lists for the other two?you've smoked me out Jw. Was planning a thread on this subject once the Sorrenson question was resolved. Last year I made a seminal post (largely ignored by the proletariat, sniff sniff) in a random thread, comparing the previous year's squad with the then current squad (incidentally I thought the squad was either the same or had got worse). In regards to getting the most out of journeymen we've probably been average, where as Arnold and Popovic have been superb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Incidentally, Nate, you left Tuna off our list.I have zilch idea what the guy's capable of, hopefully he's top shelf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) Honestly I think Nate has been too generous with the B-Graders for the other teams, many of them could be considered C-Graders. The reason the other teams have so many 'A-Graders' is because apart from the A-Graders the rest of the squad is either youth or very average older players. Granted, that's a proven strategy, waste your salary cap on top players and then fill the squad up with youth and other cheap players. But I assume we have a fair bit more cap space left now that we moved Mooy out so we still have signings to make and our squad will end up being similar in structure. Edited August 17, 2015 by Tesla 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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