John Aloisi

[wrtikappa]

It would be a mistake to change the coach, at least not at this point. Problem is that he plays every game with different players. Some players have to go with him to the end of the season. There were a few games where he was directly responsible. Coach can not play the game, but it can and must have an impact on the players and tactics, to show at least a little sense of when it is hard and when everything is going well.At the end of the season, whatever the situation was, the club must determine his responsibility.

[toogood18]

If we sack JA we totally write the season off, now that would be a disaster.

[Tranerz21]

As ive said for a while now, if we do not make finals then JA definitely has to go. If we cant win away then how can we challenge for a title that JA said the team was aiming for at the start of the season, if i remember correctly. After promising so much and not delivering then that is not good enough.

[hedaik]

Happy to give him the first 1/4 of next season to see what he can do. We have lost a few players this year through to injury and transfers so I don't think JA is completely to blame. We've had some pretty awesome wins at home with what I consider to be a fairly average squad which I think should count for something.

[Attack11]

JA gives us a media presence??? When? Do you know how many times his on SEN? Maybe once a week. I never see or hear him on any free to air media channel, and the only time I see him on fox is when he gets interviewed after a game...

In plain English the board fucked up by appointing him. This was a marketing move that back fired because JA is shit as a coach. JA at the fan forum left his players out to dry many times by saying the players don't execute the game plan over 90min... That is fucking shit for a coach to say something like that...

When a team plays well and wins, the players are responsible for that, but when a team loses its the coaches fault ... That is the nature of the busines ... JA takes credit for victories and blames his players for loses...

Accept the fact that JA was the wrong choice and let move on with a real coach.

[marn11]

Happy to give him the first 1/4 of next season to see what he can do. We have lost a few players this year through to injury and transfers so I don't think JA is completely to blame. We've had some pretty awesome wins at home with what I consider to be a fairly average squad which I think should count for something.

Thank you for being sane. Especially highlighted with your average squad point.

[dazman]

the way he speaks, presents himself to the media, the way his team plays, the way he's never said anything intelligent... even the way he celebrates like a kid whenever we score makes him seem more like a football fan than a manager. I noticed this at the start of the season but was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Yes the player losses have made his job harder, but that still doesn't explain the inconsistency.

player losses should mean the overall quality drops, not our home performances are fine but our away ones are dreadful. That's a psychological and mentality issue that can only occur if there's a lack of leadership from the manager (and senior players).

Give him the rest of the season, and if things don't improve, get a manager who can manage his players.

[mulhollanddrive]

You know would be a bigger waste.  Sticking with JA until 2014, and then replacing him with Ante Milicic.  Effectively admitting the past 2 years were a failure.

 

I am happy to give JA up to December next season, but the option of sacking him must be on the table if things don't improve. 

 

JVS did enough within 18 months to point us in the right direction, that'll be a similar timeframe.

[jw1739]

A testing time for Peter Sidwell and his fellow directors. They took a long time to choose between Milicic and Aloisi, and IMO they preferred Aloisi in that he would give the club a higher profile - not so much a media presence IMO but an ability to attract certain players to the club. Which he did with Garcia and particularly Grella, although the latter did not not work out the way everyone hoped.

 

Their problem now is either to break faith with Aloisi and possibly end his coaching career almost before it's begun or stick with him and risk the credibility of the club and hence its viability. Let's face it ATM we are coming to the end of our third mediocre season on the field where our performances simply do not match our profile off it. I sometimes feel that all this peripheral stuff about club song, how we introduce players, twitter handles on shirts, interactive matches and so on is all very well but would be more appropriate once we've stopped wallowing in mediocrity on the field. It strikes me that the other A-League clubs are more focussed on what goes on on the field and that they are prepared to take action when results are going against them - not always the right action of course but at least some action to try and improve results. In contrast, MHFC seems to take an eternity to make the decisions that we, the supporters, think are blindingly obvious.

 

IMO the present situation is about Aloisi and various players versus the credibility of MHFC as a competitive A-League club. Sidwell and co. strike me as nice guys. They believe in what they set out to do and they've stuck with it so far, and I doubt that they want to 'sack' anyone. But IMO they are coming to a point where they are going to have to make some tough decisions. I am serious when I say I don't believe we can afford another season of mediocrity.

[Attack11]

JW 1739... I agree with you 100% for the good intention to appoint a Socceroos hero to the top job simply has not worked out. I said a few months ago "I don't think we as a club can afford to have a rookie coach at the helm for another 2more seasons" . Our first 3 seasons to date have been average at best and ranks lower when you see what WSW have achieved in there first season.

I also agree with you about Mr. Sidwell and although he has said in recent times that the club is well placed financially, football wise its struggling and no where near the level that it should be. The football club is dying a slow death with more and more potential member turning away ... Who is going to save our club ...???

[kontra.11]

JA is a good young coach that is learning as he goes. It's frustrating when he makes mistakes but we need to stick with him because already this season he has made good progress.. Would be waste to sack him now. Put some quality people around him though and those people don't necessarily have to sit on the bench with him..

[theresonlyonebzamora]

JA is a good young coach that is learning as he goes. It's frustrating when he makes mistakes but we need to stick with him because already this season he has made good progress.. Would be waste to sack him now. Put some quality people around him though and those people don't necessarily have to sit on the bench with him..

Couldn't have put it better myself.

[HEARTinator]

After 23 rounds in each of our 3 seasons, our win, draw, loss, goal diff and points:

2010/11 7,6,10, -11, 27

2011/12 9,6,8, +1, 33

2012/13 8,3,12, -2, 27

If you didn't know who the coach was you'd think there was not much difference in results except that our losses are higher this year. In terms of money spent on the coach, spending less on Aloisi doesn't appear to have been a disaster - we just haven't progressed in the way we would have liked. JA will be coach next season and he'll be given the freedom to create the team he wants rather than having some of JVS's left overs. I just would like to see some more experience around him on game day.

[Hazzaverx]

After 23 rounds in each of our 3 seasons, our win, draw, loss, goal diff and points:

2010/11 7,6,10, -11, 27

2011/12 9,6,8, +1, 33

2012/13 8,3,12, -2, 27

If you didn't know who the coach was you'd think there was not much difference in results except that our losses are higher this year. In terms of money spent on the coach, spending less on Aloisi doesn't appear to have been a disaster - we just haven't progressed in the way we would have liked. JA will be coach next season and he'll be given the freedom to create the team he wants rather than having some of JVS's left overs. I just would like to see some more experience around him on game day.

This

[alexiano]

I know hindsight is 20-20, still don't quite understand why they didn't just promote BOTH coaches? AM to head coach and JA to assnt. We're they worried about having their pants down that AM would just walk after wsw announcement? Who knows, but when I play, I expect to have my head on the chopping block if I didn't perform. There's a pecking order normally that seems non-existent at Heart. I have more desire to finish my dinner than Heart appeared to have in that game to win.

[fiz.heart]

The most worrying thing is that it seems like JA isn't doing anything to change our away form. It's like he accepts it and just hopes that one day we will finally click cos its a 'mental thing'. Fair enough his a young coach but you have to take action on these things especially when finals are at stake!

It's not rocket science is it..?

[yelawolf]

The most worrying thing is that it seems like JA isn't doing anything to change our away form. It's like he accepts it and just hopes that one day we will finally click cos its a 'mental thing'. Fair enough his a young coach but you have to take action on these things especially when finals are at stake!

It's not rocket science is it..?

what would you like him to do?

[Ando]

Something like this:

 

[hedaik]

I think a bit more consistency would be nice from JA by giving us a few more home losses

[alexandro]

An away win before the end of the year please. How many managers in the A-League have managed to keep their job having won only one away game in a year? Serious question.

 

A surprise win in the last round against mariners to secure a final against Victory and all will be forgiven...

[loriente]

Obligatory bump.

[kingofhearts]

He should've been fired half way through the season when we had the chance to save the season.

We've left it too late. Fire him now. Cannot beleive he dropped gerdhardt and germano.

Patty has nearly been our best player this season!!! Is he ever accountable for his decisions??

[Libero]

not Aloisi's fault. 

 

we shouldve been 3-0 in the first 10 mins. 

 

 

 

although hes a shit manager, he should not be fired on a basis of todays game.

 

 

dont forget his whole back four was sold and now we've resorted to Coyne at LB 

[loriente]

Totally lost the midfield after half time when we subbed off Meeuwis and brought on Fred. Playing with 3 natural attacking midfielders whilst our 3 defensive midfielders were on the bench and out of the squad. Absolute joke. JA officially has no idea.

[Heart of Melbourne]

Lets not forget about Didulica. He needs to be accountable as well. Squad needs an overhaul.

Get a european coach. Send aloisi back to Sydney. He has not Heart. Simple.

[theresonlyonebzamora]

I don't usually like comparing sports to one another but this is what the Australian cricket coach said about the awful performances in the first two tests

‘‘It’s extremely tough to sit here and make that decision... They are leaders within the team and are very professional with the way they go about their business. But this was a moment where we had to make a statement irrespective of who the players were"

‘‘I asked the players at the end of the game to give me an individual presentation, I wanted three points from each of them technically, mentally and team as to how we were going to get back over the next couple of games’’

[jw1739]

For me the biggest issue that we have to deal with is that the boys seem unable to lift their intensity when the situation demands it. Whether it be staying in front when we've established a one- or two-goal buffer, or coming back after we've gone a goal down, the team collectively appears short of the necessary fighting spirit.

 

I don't know whether this is a coaching issue or not. It certainly didn't look good to see JA slumped in his chair during the second half yesterday, but I don't think he alone can be blamed for this lack of fighting spirit.

[cadete]

I have said this before but the club goofed it they should had some guts and employed Ante Milicic,

 

Its obvious that JA offers something as a coach just not enough/or enough yet for success - For all we know he might have made a solid Assistant Coach.

Edited March 12, 2013 by cadete

[wombegongal]

We have no idea what would have happened with Ante was coach maybe we would have won the league? Maybe we would have been worse than the tards with Mehmet. Either way it doesn't matter and serves no real purpose to say see I told you so I should employ football managers. As the cliche` goes 'hindsight is a great thing'.

 

The real question for the club is what happens now to go forward? I guess the first step in that process is the club deciding if they wish for Aloisi to continue (which I think they should) then how can they give him the tools he needs. I'm willing to support the guy I've never been a supporter of the hire and fire merry go round in soccer and I think this is a way to differentiate ourselves as loyal to our own.

 

Yes there is a time and a place to move a coach on I don't think looking back at the season that point has come for John and he should be given every chance to prove himself.

[Melburnian]

For better or worse we are stuck with John.

Now, I am not his biggest fan and his press conferences, tactics, management have been suspect but it was his first year in charge and despite it all there are rays of light in his potential.

It's quite simple, if the club wants to be a success they need to do what it takes to fund the dream. The longer we play the poor card and not realise we can't compete like this, the better we will be.

The directive of break even was flawed and of heavy significance to why we are where we are as a club. It inspires no one.

The problem with the club is currently the thinking of the club.

Fund for support for John Aloisi. Fund for facilities of an elite club. Fund for a scouting network to get the best players possible. Fund for success.

Change the image of the club.

[belaguttman]

For better or worse we are stuck with John.

Now, I am not his biggest fan and his press conferences, tactics, management have been suspect but it was his first year in charge and despite it all there are rays of light in his potential.

It's quite simple, if the club wants to be a success they need to do what it takes to fund the dream. The longer we play the poor card and not realise we can't compete like this, the better we will be.

The directive of break even was flawed and of heavy significance to why we are where we are as a club. It inspires no one.

The problem with the club is currently the thinking of the club.

Fund for support for John Aloisi. Fund for facilities of an elite club. Fund for a scouting network to get the best players possible. Fund for success.

Change the image of the club.

'Break even' was a flawed strategy from our perspective as fans as we want on-field success, but you and I might see it differently if it were our own money. I remember talking to a friend of mine who owned a Mornington Peninsula winery and dissuaded my romantic notions of winery ownership by telling me that all ownership gave them was a yearly case of wine that cost them at least $70,000 each year! It takes passion and commitment to put up your own dollars, you don't do it to make a profit. However there's no point in putting up your own money and being half-hearted about it (intentional pun), JA needs to funding to allow him to develop and to do his job to the best of his abilities, either into a long-term strategy of young player development, or in hiring the troops to be able to enact his game plan with the appropriate level of thinking and on-field leadership. It reminds me of a quote by the great Sacchi, " A manager can only make a difference if he has a club that backs him, that is patient, that gives confidence to the players and is willing to commit long-term. And in my case doesn't just want to win but wants to win convincingly. And then you need the players with that mentality'.

[Melburnian]

For better or worse we are stuck with John.

Now, I am not his biggest fan and his press conferences, tactics, management have been suspect but it was his first year in charge and despite it all there are rays of light in his potential.

It's quite simple, if the club wants to be a success they need to do what it takes to fund the dream. The longer we play the poor card and not realise we can't compete like this, the better we will be.

The directive of break even was flawed and of heavy significance to why we are where we are as a club. It inspires no one.

The problem with the club is currently the thinking of the club.

Fund for support for John Aloisi. Fund for facilities of an elite club. Fund for a scouting network to get the best players possible. Fund for success.

Change the image of the club.

'Break even' was a flawed strategy from our perspective as fans as we want on-field success, but you and I might see it differently if it were our own money. I remember talking to a friend of mine who owned a Mornington Peninsula winery and dissuaded my romantic notions of winery ownership by telling me that all ownership gave them was a yearly case of wine that cost them at least $70,000 each year! It takes passion and commitment to put up your own dollars, you don't do it to make a profit. However there's no point in putting up your own money and being half-hearted about it (intentional pun), JA needs to funding to allow him to develop and to do his job to the best of his abilities, either into a long-term strategy of young player development, or in hiring the troops to be able to enact his game plan with the appropriate level of thinking and on-field leadership. It reminds me of a quote by the great Sacchi, " A manager can only make a difference if he has a club that backs him, that is patient, that gives confidence to the players and is willing to commit long-term. And in my case doesn't just want to win but wants to win convincingly. And then you need the players with that mentality'.

Look I have even voiced my displeasure with the club on this, why did these millionaires want to own a club without wanting to invest the money needed to be a success.

Since inception we have cried poor. My opinion on this is there was too many board members wanting the title of owning a football club rather than want to do what is required.

My issue is without the required funding this club will not only do nothing, but as we have seen this year, do damage to our brand. We keep going on this track, the club won't be able to compete.

Break even can be achieved with a range of strategies. In my opinion the club have done it the worst way possible, they took the cheap and uninspiring option. Basically that approach is the exact way most see our club.

If you inspire and spend the money you will bring people. We saw this with 14,000 people turn up against Sydney. The potential is out there but the club it seems dont want to go and get it. Rather they want to hope it comes to them for minimal spend.

Time is NOW for the club to spend and inspire.

[kingofhearts]

 

For better or worse we are stuck with John.

Now, I am not his biggest fan and his press conferences, tactics, management have been suspect but it was his first year in charge and despite it all there are rays of light in his potential.

It's quite simple, if the club wants to be a success they need to do what it takes to fund the dream. The longer we play the poor card and not realise we can't compete like this, the better we will be.

The directive of break even was flawed and of heavy significance to why we are where we are as a club. It inspires no one.

The problem with the club is currently the thinking of the club.

Fund for support for John Aloisi. Fund for facilities of an elite club. Fund for a scouting network to get the best players possible. Fund for success.

Change the image of the club.

'Break even' was a flawed strategy from our perspective as fans as we want on-field success, but you and I might see it differently if it were our own money. I remember talking to a friend of mine who owned a Mornington Peninsula winery and dissuaded my romantic notions of winery ownership by telling me that all ownership gave them was a yearly case of wine that cost them at least $70,000 each year! It takes passion and commitment to put up your own dollars, you don't do it to make a profit. However there's no point in putting up your own money and being half-hearted about it (intentional pun), JA needs to funding to allow him to develop and to do his job to the best of his abilities, either into a long-term strategy of young player development, or in hiring the troops to be able to enact his game plan with the appropriate level of thinking and on-field leadership. It reminds me of a quote by the great Sacchi, " A manager can only make a difference if he has a club that backs him, that is patient, that gives confidence to the players and is willing to commit long-term. And in my case doesn't just want to win but wants to win convincingly. And then you need the players with that mentality'.

Look I have even voiced my displeasure with the club on this, why did these millionaires want to own a club without wanting to invest the money needed to be a success.

Since inception we have cried poor. My opinion on this is there was too many board members wanting the title of owning a football club rather than want to do what is required.

My issue is without the required funding this club will not only do nothing, but as we have seen this year, do damage to our brand. We keep going on this track, the club won't be able to compete.

Break even can be achieved with a range of strategies. In my opinion the club have done it the worst way possible, they took the cheap and uninspiring option. Basically that approach is the exact way most see our club.

If you inspire and spend the money you will bring people. We saw this with 14,000 people turn up against Sydney. The potential is out there but the club it seems dont want to go and get it. Rather they want to hope it comes to them for minimal spend.

Time is NOW for the club to spend and inspire.

Totally agree Melburnian. Anyone seen that film moneyball? Make smart managing decision can make or brake a club. They've fucked up the two most important ones in choosing a coach as well as there membership campaign.

 

If they really are that poor why not do what the green bay packers do in the nfl and let some of the fans own shares in the club???? I think most people here would be happy to invest some money in the club. Don't know if it has been discussed before

[HEARTinator]

"Ownership" is definitely on the agenda for Heart and it was put on the agenda for the first fan representative forum held recently ( not sure if it was discussed). Some kind of fan ownership is currently being investigated by Lyle Gorman for WSW. The interesting question for me is what would the members reaction be to Aloisi as coach if we had a financial stake in HeartFC? Would we be forgiving about our lack lustre performance our would we get "hard nosed" and sack him? Peoples behaviour can be quite different when their money is on the line.

Edited March 12, 2013 by HEARTinator

[jw1739]

Where is the evidence that the club is crying 'poor'? IIRC  the Board's original aim was to build a financially-sustainable A-League club and to break even in the third season/year. People seem to me to be forgetting that each A-League club has at the very least to pay a senior squad wages bill of 85% of the salary cap, and in our first two seasons we were probably paying the League's most expensive coach on a package worth up to a rumoured $750,000 per year.

 

The financial differences between the clubs are in the 'optional spend' - such as players paid outside the salary cap, support staff, coaching staff advertising, etc - and the generation of income from wherever. It may be that we have 'underspent' in these areas, but none of us have the details. In this context I point out that CCM is reputedly run on a shoestring budget, which is what you are accusing the Heart of doing. IIRC CCM has been fairly successful on the field despite its shoestring budget.

 

We have a tendency in this country to push the line that if we spend more we will obtain a better outcome. Many things are associated with better outcomes, and if these are not addressed as well then the extra spending is likely to be frittered away with little or no measurable improvement in outcome. Hard work, planning, attention to detail, focus on needs rather than wants, reducing wastage, and a whole host of other factors are just as important as merely chucking more money at something.

 

I do not resile from the view that if we are guilty of anything it is that we have tried to do too much too quickly. The principles on which the club is built are sound, but at this point in time, to grow the club we have to be completely focussed on achieving better results on the field. I accept that we may need to loosen the purse strings to achieve this in the short term, but IMO it is equally important that we harden up in every aspect of our operations.

Edited March 12, 2013 by jw1739

[belaguttman]

"Ownership" is definitely on the agenda for Heart and it was put on the agenda for the first fan representative forum held recently ( not sure if it was discussed). Some kind of fan ownership is currently being investigated by Lyle Gorman for WSW. The interesting question for me is what would the members reaction be to Aloisi as coach if we had a financial stake in HeartFC? Would we be forgiving about our lack lustre performance our would we get "hard nosed" and sack him? Peoples behaviour can be quite different when their money is on the line.

Whether the coach is sacked or not depends on the goals that the club have set for him and a frank assessment of whether he has been provided with adequate resources to achieve that goal. As jw1739 says, we don't have to spend big to be successful, we just have to spend clever. I don't think that we have this season, and the reality is that we won't every season no matter how astute we are. I could also argue would you be as demanding of on-field performance if it were your money? For example, we can sign Andrea Pirlo next season but it will cost you and I $10000 a year for 2 seasons as our personal contribution to his contract! Suddenly you and I think that a 'lesser light' looks like good value.

[Melburnian]

I did a bit of work at a well known AFL club who also has a salary cap and the research done clearly showed there was distinct correlation between the clubs who can spend the most being the most successful. This was made as a priority by the club I was at and evidence today three years later is that this club had substantially added finances to all areas of its operation particularly the football side of things and are now bearing fruit also.

Where is the evidence we have cried poor? For real? It seems like it's in our constitution. The way we portray ourselves also shows an image of being a poorer club.

As said the image needs to change and the board need to get their act into gear IF they want this club to be successful.

John Aloisi can be a great manager, but needs support and backing.

Edited March 12, 2013 by Melburnian

[Peter]

I know it off topic but related to the last few posts.

Why have we come out publicly and stated that our aim is to break even? This has straight away put a negative slant on the club and taken the focus off the football (unless there were strong suspicions of how this season would go?).

Also we have to have some PR money. As has been mentioned, the backers of the club must have known that it would take a bit to break into the market with the A-League power house as a neighbour. We simply have not done that, nor have we really presented as a solid alternative. If it wasn't for the fact I can not stand Victory and I am firmly aligned with the Heart, I would support Victory. They look professional, we don't. All of the neutrals I know who were expressing an interest in Heart last seaon have lost interest and those who want to watch A-League want to see Victory. We have a lot of work to do.

Whilst behind the scenes the club can cut costs, we need to at least present as professional. Surely this is not that hard.

My greatest beef this season was a work mates daughters junior club who asked both Heart and Victory for give aways for an awards night. Victory sent out show bags with drink bottles, stickers, rulers etc. which the junior clubs players now promote Victory by using as well as having 15 families on side as supporters/possible members. Heart on the other hand said that we don't have anything of that nature (I wrote to the club who confirmed that we don't have the resources for these types of things). My work mate was singing the praises of Victory whilst screwing his face up and speaking poorly of our club. No second guess which club neutrals who speak to him will support.

To bring this post back on topic, I supported the appointment of Ante Milicic whilst voicing support for JA when he got the job. As Melburnian has said there have been glimers of good stuff. I think JA should have been replaced a few months ago but as he is here I will support him. The squad for next season will have JA's hand prints all over it and so there will be little excuse as far as personal is concerned. Next season will show us if JA is up to the job. I hope he is.

Edited March 12, 2013 by Peter

[jw1739]

I know it off topic but related to the last few posts.

Why have we come out publicly and stated that our aim is to break even? 

IIRC I have heard it attributed to and from both our Chairman and CEO a number of times over the past three seasons. As part of being a community focussed club it was probably thought to be a good thing to be transparent about it. The club is still approachable about a great many things, as evidenced by the formation of the Fans' Representative Group.

 

In hindsight, perhaps it wasn't a good idea - who knows.

 

Somewhere Sash has recently written that we should stop navel-gazing. No other club does it as far as we know. I think he's right. Perhaps if through the Representative Group we could push the line that we want the public emphasis to be on the football and keep all the rest of the stuff in-house then that would be the best way we could move forward.

[Bozza]

I did a bit of work at a well known AFL club who also has a salary cap and the research done clearly showed there was distinct correlation between the clubs who can spend the most being the most successful. This was made as a priority by the club I was at and evidence today three years later is that this club had substantially added finances to all areas of its operation particularly the football side of things and are now bearing fruit also.

Where is the evidence we have cried poor? For real? It seems like it's in our constitution. The way we portray ourselves also shows an image of being a poorer club.

As said the image needs to change and the board need to get their act into gear IF they want this club to be successful.

John Aloisi can be a great manager, but needs support and backing.

 

Spend more money you say?

Perhaps we could start by getting more "value for money" off the football pitch so we don't have things like that wonderful radio ad that hit SEN happen again...

Perhaps then the club will be willing to spend more in these areas as well, which is much needed.